Elring or Victor Reinz?

[Furly]

so i have already ordered everything i need for my head gasket job, except the actual gasket set itself.

coolant, oil , oem head bolts, nicer torque wrench.
now i cant decide over these two head gasket kits. one is elring one is victor reinz. both are exactly the same price.

http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/p...oducts_id=3732
http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/p...oducts_id=1914

are they exactly the same? is one better quality than the other? just want to see what everyone here prefers.
also is there anything else i should order? timing belt only has 30k on it so i'm reusing it til its time to replace it again.
keep your fingers crossed that i don't find cracks in the head

[PreciseD]

When it comes to gaskets I have never had issues with OEM. I would recommend to not use aftermarket gaskets but if you did Victor Reinz is well known in the gasket world.

If it was my engine I would use this. I know it cost more but do you really want a gasket to fail?

[gotboost]

Do not order from MJM. Trust me...

[AudiA4_20T]

Elring 100%. VR is not that great

[gmudan]

Victor reinz!

[DiertyEuroSpec]

Elring deff way better than VR

[Furly]

When it comes to gaskets I have never had issues with OEM. I would recommend to not use aftermarket gaskets but if you did Victor Reinz is well known in the gasket world.

If it was my engine I would use this. I know it cost more but do you really want a gasket to fail?

IE is a well known brand for rods and such, but never heard anything about their head gasket kits.

i did a ton of research on VR and elring and it seemed to be 50/50. some people on VWvortex were bashing victor reinz gaskets saying they fail quickly. some people said they are awesome and lasted them many years.
i will be ordering my gasket set today, so all feedback i can get from fellow AZ'ers would be appreciated.

[Furly]

also, does anyone know if i need to buy any sealants or head bolt lube? or does all of this come with the kits i order?

[n7plus1]

Do not order from MJM. Trust me...

ive been ordering from MJM since ive owned the car. I've never had a single issue?

[customa4]

also, does anyone know if i need to buy any sealants or head bolt lube? or does all of this come with the kits i order?

You don't need any sealer for the head gasket or head bolts. You will need some gasket sealer for the valve cover gasket though

[PreciseD]

also, does anyone know if i need to buy any sealants or head bolt lube? or does all of this come with the kits i order?

Head bolts are not to be lubed unless stated by the manufacture. If you lube them you will need to lower the amount of TQ you use or you will over stretch them.

Use clean motor oil for all other gaskets prior to install. Assembly lube is used for metal to metal surfaces.

On a side note it looks like both Elring and Victor Reinz are the OE manufacturers for Audi, BMW and Mercedes gaskets, so either would be fine.

[customa4]

I would like to mention that the FelPro head gasket that came with my kit looked completely different than the OEM one.

[DiertyEuroSpec]

Elring kits are more complete, and I remember when doing my HG the second time I went with Elring and was much more pleased with quality of their kit. I can't remember exactly what it was but I swore to only go Elring form there out.

[customa4]

FelPro



OEM

[AudiA4_20T]

IE is a well known brand for rods and such, but never heard anything about their head gasket kits.

i did a ton of research on VR and elring and it seemed to be 50/50. some people on VWvortex were bashing victor reinz gaskets saying they fail quickly. some people said they are awesome and lasted them many years.
i will be ordering my gasket set today, so all feedback i can get from fellow AZ'ers would be appreciated.

Let me make this clear for everyone, IE DOES NOT MAKE HEADGASKETS. MJM DOES NOT MAKE HEADGASKETS. ECS DOES NOT MAKE HEADGASKETS. All of these companies you buy from re-sell the small handful of companies that make parts for Audi. Elring and Victor-Reinz are two of the ones that make lots of gaskets, just like you can go to Advanced Auto and get a Mobil1, Mann, or FRAM oil filter, but they all work

VR either works or it doesn't so obviously if it works people like it. However, it fails way more than Elring I can tell you that

Head bolts are not to be lubed unless stated by the manufacture. If you lube them you will need to lower the amount of TQ you use or you will over stretch them.

Use clean motor oil for all other gaskets prior to install. Assembly lube is used for metal to metal surfaces.

On a side note it looks like both Elring and Victor Reinz are the OE manufacturers for Audi, BMW and Mercedes gaskets, so either would be fine.

However, Elring is better.

[PreciseD]

Let me make this clear for everyone, IE DOES NOT MAKE HEADGASKETS. MJM DOES NOT MAKE HEADGASKETS. ECS DOES NOT MAKE HEADGASKETS. All of these companies you buy from re-sell the small handful of companies that make parts for Audi. Elring and Victor-Reinz are two of the ones that make lots of gaskets, just like you can go to Advanced Auto and get a Mobil1, Mann, or FRAM oil filter, but they all work

VR either works or it doesn't so obviously if it works people like it. However, it fails way more than Elring I can tell you that



However, Elring is better.

Yeah after looking at the kits I would agree with the Elring and I actually think they make the OEM headgasket.

[Furly]

so looks like elring is what i will be ordering today.
thanks everyone! its always good to see what everyones opinions and personal experience are with these sort of things.

what sealant should i buy for the VCG? it does not look like it comes with the head gasket kits.
i cant wait to get to wrenching

is there any valves or anything that is easily accessible with the head off, that i should also replace while i am at it? i want to do as much as i can, since i do have some boost issues also.
thanks all!!

[PreciseD]

you should lap all your valves if you have the time.

[Seerlah]

There will be the debate about lubing the head bolts. Some do, some don't. The kicker is I am running a victor reinz HG, stock head bolts with arp assembly lube (used on all my internal fasteners matter of fact) on a 530hp turbo with a 25psi 93 octane tune at the moment (where I feel safe before doing other things like securing the crank gear). Victor reinz gasket has also seen 600+whp on the 1.8t. Kicker number 2. I have an elring HG going on next time after I build a head. But...only because I picked it up for like dirt cheap on a fs ad.

[Furly]

you should lap all your valves if you have the time.

noob question. but what do you mean lap the valves, and how does one go about this?
i am sending the head to a machine shop to have it tested and machined if need be. but not familiar with valve lapping.

[PreciseD]

Lapping the valves is basically using an abrasive paste on the sealing surface of the valves to make them seal properly.

It's easy to do and a kit costs about 20 bucks.


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[Furly]

There will be the debate about lubing the head bolts. Some do, some don't. The kicker is I am running a victor reinz HG, stock head bolts with arp assembly lube (used on all my internal fasteners matter of fact) on a 530hp turbo with a 25psi 93 octane tune at the moment (where I feel safe before doing other things like securing the crank gear). Victor reinz gasket has also seen 600+whp on the 1.8t. Kicker number 2. I have an elring HG going on next time after I build a head. But...only because I picked it up for like dirt cheap on a fs ad.

will the assembly lube come with the head bolts or should i order it? link?
i feel it may be proper to use the assembly lube, at least a thin coat to get a more accurate torque.

btw, are you running stock internals or built bottom end (rods etc..) ?

thanks!!

[ZipMeUpJ]

Let me make this clear for everyone, IE DOES NOT MAKE HEADGASKETS. MJM DOES NOT MAKE HEADGASKETS. ECS DOES NOT MAKE HEADGASKETS. All of these companies you buy from re-sell the small handful of companies that make parts for Audi. Elring and Victor-Reinz are two of the ones that make lots of gaskets, just like you can go to Advanced Auto and get a Mobil1, Mann, or FRAM oil filter, but they all work

I always say this about Ebay too

[PreciseD]

will the assembly lube come with the head bolts or should i order it? link?
i feel it may be proper to use the assembly lube, at least a thin coat to get a more accurate torque.

btw, are you running stock internals or built bottom end (rods etc..) ?

thanks!!

Audi uses DRY torque for head bolts. If you use WET torque you will need to lower the torque value to 70% that of the original. I personally would not change that spec and would not use lube on OEM Stretch Bolts. ARP can get away with using lube because their bolts and studs are not one time use.

[customa4]

This^^ Seerlah is using ARP head bolts/studs. You will not be using ARP.

[Spike00513]

lower the torque value to 70% that of the original.

Why 70%?

[PreciseD]

Why 70%?

When you lube the threads of a bolt the friction goes down, thus it takes less rotational force (AKA torque) to apply the same amount of linear force on an object. If you Wet Torque the OEM bolts, which are designed to be Dry torqued, at the OEM Value then you will over stretch the bolts causing failure.

ARP Studs/Bolts are NOT stretch or torqued to yield style fasteners so they can use lube on the threads. Even with this it is recommend to use larger washers between the cap of the bolt or nut and the head as over torquing on aluminum will cause failure.

[Seerlah]

This^^ Seerlah is using ARP head bolts/studs. You will not be using ARP.

No. OEM head stretch bolts. ARP ones will go on next time around (already picked up). Used same stuff on my main bolts and rod bolts.

OP, my bottom end is built (fully rebuilt with forged rods). Cylinder head is next on list. Too lazy to get finished, but started.

[customa4]

Ahh my mistake.

[arjun90]

Elring is the main OEM for Audi

[diagnosticator]

I use only Elring head gaskets. I also always lubricate the head bolt threads. The torque turn tightening method eliminates variation in final tightening clamping force, and combined with the bolt stretch, the final clamping load on the head gasket is very uniform. With the torque turn tightening and the bolt stretch, the head bolts actually behave like a giant spring holding the head to the block. The head is designed to actually move around a little on the block with temp changes. ARP head bolts develop higher clamping loads on the gasket compared to the stock stretch bolts however, and will prevent head lift and reduced clamp load with very high cylinder gas pressures during the combustion stroke.

[AudiA4_20T]

I use only Elring head gaskets.

and there you have it folks.

/thread

[diagnosticator]

noob question. but what do you mean lap the valves, and how does one go about this?
i am sending the head to a machine shop to have it tested and machined if need be. but not familiar with valve lapping.

Any machine shop worth it's salt, will lap the valve seats during assembly of the head. Lapping can't be done after the head is assembled.

[Furly]

old thread, got most of this stuff done already. i did go with elring because it came in my IE kit of parts i ordered. also replaced every single thing on the engine pretty much.
don't think the machine shop cut the seats but they did leak test the new head and resurface it flat for me. i'll be putting my new supertech valves in there this weekend.

very good info on head bolts diagnosticator! i'll definitely lubricate them gently. most people on threads i read, advised against it and said to just clean the threads on the block and torque the bolts down dry. but what you said makes perfect sense. and i do not want the head backing off the block any time soon.

[Spike00513]

Are you replacing the valve stem seals while in there?
I've heard of DIY valve-lapping w/ suction cup and/or drill, not sure if it works.
Did you end up using a sealant on the HG? Clicky

[Furly]

Are you replacing the valve stem seals while in there?
I've heard of DIY valve-lapping w/ suction cup and/or drill, not sure if it works.
Did you end up using a sealant on the HG? Clicky

the head i got, came with springs and retainers, etc.. so i just have to throw some valves in there.
do you suggest replacing the stem seals also? i'll have the head back apart to install the valves anyway.

also, have never heard of anyone using a gasket maker to seal a head gasket. i was always under the impression it should just be a metal gasket between two perfectly flat surfaces.
the gasket maker i've only seen used to create oil pan gaskets, and to dab on the corners of a valve cover gasket.

[Seerlah]

HG goes bone dry onto clean surfaces. If they aren't clean, don't expect the gasket to hold. Same thing with flatness. And the suction cup is what they use to lap valves in. You do it by hand. Valve head on suction cup, lapping compound on seat and where it meets valve head, then simply go back and forth till the grit becomes more smooth. Clean, move to the next.

[Spike00513]

the head i got, came with springs and retainers, etc.. so i just have to throw some valves in there.
do you suggest replacing the stem seals also? i'll have the head back apart to install the valves anyway.

also, have never heard of anyone using a gasket maker to seal a head gasket. i was always under the impression it should just be a metal gasket between two perfectly flat surfaces.
the gasket maker i've only seen used to create oil pan gaskets, and to dab on the corners of a valve cover gasket.

My 3.0 oil level slowly drops. I figure I either need new valve stem seals, and/or main seal leak(s).
On another car that I saw a shop do headwork on, they put in new valve-stem seals. From what I hear, it's easier to do with the head off, and may as well be done.
If these engines run hot, and have high mileage, why not.

[AudiA4_20T]

My 3.0 oil level slowly drops. I figure I either need new valve stem seals, and/or main seal leak(s).
On another car that I saw a shop do headwork on, they put in new valve-stem seals. From what I hear, it's easier to do with the head off, and may as well be done.
If these engines run hot, and have high mileage, why not.

I've regretted not doing stem seals twice now on these heads. When they go they cause some pretty serious oil burning. They're a pain to do when the head is off, but when the head is on they're 10x more annoying

[Spike00513]

I've regretted not doing stem seals twice now on these heads. When they go they cause some pretty serious oil burning. They're a pain to do when the head is off, but when the head is on they're 10x more annoying

Clicky 1
Clicky 2