Constant throttle body issues...

[BigFat]

Hi,

Wife and I bought an '07 Avant back in January for her to use as her car.

Shortly after purchase we started getting fault codes for a bad throttle body. Replaced it with known working TB from another car. Car ran great! A month or so later, THAT throttle body failed.

Since it wasn't "new" we decided to try a new one out at a cost of $400. Got in installed, car ran great!

Fast forward to today, and the new throttle body is starting to fail. I'm ready to pull my hair off and the wife wants a new car.

The only thing I can think is that there is too much oil getting into the intake tract from the pcv system, causing the throttle body to foul.

Any suggestions for a fix? A catch can is on our list for the future, maybe we'll need to bump that up on the mod list?

[BigFat]

I should add that when sitting at a light with the windows down, I can detect a "burnt" or "hot" oil smell from the engine bay - not major but worthwhile mentioning I guess.

[FraggyA4]

I'm almost positive this was a warranty issue and you should take the car to the dealer and have them perform any warranty items that the car might have out.

[BigFat]

Any idea what the warranty issue was?

This is an American '07 (we're Canadian) so it would have to be a pretty special case to still be covered, I think...

It's also got the APR Stage 3 kit on it, so that might raise some questions...

[LoKisSpYdR]

Any idea what the warranty issue was?

This is an American '07 (we're Canadian) so it would have to be a pretty special case to still be covered, I think...

It's also got the APR Stage 3 kit on it, so that might raise some questions...

Yes the stage 3 kit may raise some eyebrows and I believe that it was a simple fix. There is a harness/plug kit and you have to cut and splice the wires to the TB plug. I know I read it on Vortex. I'll link it if I can find it in my saved sites.

Edit:
Here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...harness-repair

[FraggyA4]

Found it! It's the intake motor flap. Get that fixed and then get the throttle body realigned and see if that fixes the problem.

[LoKisSpYdR]

Also if you are having issues with the flapper get that fixed and replace you PCV if you have oil in your IM.
IIRC, flapper gives a flapper specific code though.

[FraggyA4]

He should probably check it for codes.

[BigFat]

Wow, thanks for those links! That's incredibly helpful.

I have a feeling if anything, it's related to the first VWvortex link - I don't have the codes on me now, but they were throttle position sensor codes, not intake flap codes.

I'll look into this a bit more I guess.

[FraggyA4]

Wow, thanks for those links! That's incredibly helpful.

I have a feeling if anything, it's related to the first VWvortex link - I don't have the codes on me now, but they were throttle position sensor codes, not intake flap codes.

I'll look into this a bit more I guess.

Throttle body position can be fixed with an alignment with Vagcom

[SwiftA4]

Throttle body position can be fixed with an alignment with Vagcom

Also by this method as well if he doesn't have Vagcom available...

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...dy%20alignment

[FraggyA4]

Also by this method as well if he doesn't have Vagcom available...

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...dy%20alignment

Yeah should of mentioned that, I get accustomed to having vagcom and forget most people don't have it.

[BigFat]

Throttle body position can be fixed with an alignment with Vagcom

I don't think it's strictly an alignment issue though. Something is causing these TBs to fail consistently. And I had done an alignment last two times I replaced the TB...

[FraggyA4]

hmm well you have stumped me....

[BigFat]

hmm well you have stumped me....

I'll post the codes when I'm done work, maybe that will help shed some light on the situation.

[BigFat]

Here are the codes:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 01: Engine Labels: 06F-907-115-AXX.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 8E0 910 115 P HW: 8E0 907 115 D
Component and/or Version: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 0020
Software Coding: 010C010A180F0120
Work Shop Code: WSC 01405 444 68094
VCID: 2E58D892B94B566E39B-807B
4 Faults Found:

005465 - Throttle Body (J338)
P1559 - 008 - Fault in basic settings - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 10101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 138745 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 245 /min
Load: 33.7 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 66.0°C
Temperature: 55.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 960.0 mbar
Voltage: 11.049 V

005497 - Throttle Actuator (J338)
P1579 - 001 - Adaptation Not Started - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 138752 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 302 /min
Load: 43.1 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 53.0°C
Temperature: 51.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 960.0 mbar
Voltage: 11.430 V

000545 - Angle Sensor 2 for Throttle (G188)
P0221 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 10101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 4
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 138770 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1873 /min
Load: 33.7 %
Speed: 14.0 km/h
Temperature: 46.0°C
Temperature: 32.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 970.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.843 V

000289 - Throttle Position Sensor (G69)
P0121 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 10101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 4
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 138770 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1087 /min
Load: 39.2 %
Speed: 19.0 km/h
Temperature: 47.0°C
Temperature: 30.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 970.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.716 V

[billyhoyle]

Side note, awesome that you got your wife a Stage 3 car haha. I can't even convince my gf to put an intake on her rabbit.

[BigFat]

Hah, yeah, I got lucky there... although it's a *tiny* bit tougher to convince her the car needs to run in 100 octane mode all the time. ;)

[LoKisSpYdR]

The TPS MIL can def be the wiring. The rest almost lean toward TB or they've never been cleared.

[BigFat]

Just as an update in case anyone was following this thread - I followed the advice in the thread LoKisSpYdR linked to below (thanks!), and the issue hasn't returned for a couple weeks. At this point I'm confident it's solved the issue. Thanks for all the advice!

Yes the stage 3 kit may raise some eyebrows and I believe that it was a simple fix. There is a harness/plug kit and you have to cut and splice the wires to the TB plug. I know I read it on Vortex. I'll link it if I can find it in my saved sites.

Edit:
Here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...harness-repair

[BigFat]

Just another update - the issue came up again a month or two after the last update.

Still getting EPC/Traction Control lights followed by a stumbling idle while driving, or, the TB just won't take input from the gas pedal.

Hugely annoying and unsafe problem, I'm going to replace the 644 relays and see if that helps anything but I'm not too sure it will...

Does anyone else have any input?

[Silveravant]

I think it 614 relay, not 644.

[BigFat]

I thought the 644 relays were under the ECU and prone to water damage?

[blackcivic11]

You changed the plug for the revised part and got the new wire kit all spliced in? I was having mega issues with my TB (2 of them) until I redid the wiring as per the TSB from Audi/VW and the problem has completely gone away

[BigFat]

Yup. :( I'm willing to give it another shot though. When I read the TSB, I don't have the same codes as what caused the issue in the first place, and it says it only applies to BPY motors. Was there an Audi specific TSB?

[Silveravant]

I thought the 644 relays were under the ECU and prone to water damage?

The 614 relays are under the ECU and prone to water damage.

[BigFat]

Did they change the part number? The 644 relays I have, the parts guy told me are a replacement for 614's...

[kosmo38]

Check your ecm box for water ingress. Check wires from pedal to ecm and tb.

[Silveravant]

My relays say 614 on them and are part #8E0 951 253. I had no water or any other signs of damage, but when I replaced them my EPC/limp mode problem went away.

[BigFat]

Did some research and the 644 relays have replaced the 614s.

Pulled the ECU last night and removed the 614 relays, replacing them with the new 644s. What a pain in the ass job. Everything was dry, but I did notice the prongs of the old relays appear to have heat damage on them? Partially discolored.

Haven't had the chance to drive the car too much, but it seems as if it feels a little smoother - probably just a placebo effect though. Hoping this finally solved the problem, but it may take a while to pop up again as it was pretty sporadic when it happened in the past.

[mec]

Did some research and the 644 relays have replaced the 614s.

Pulled the ECU last night and removed the 614 relays, replacing them with the new 644s. What a pain in the ass job. Everything was dry, but I did notice the prongs of the old relays appear to have heat damage on them? Partially discolored.

Haven't had the chance to drive the car too much, but it seems as if it feels a little smoother - probably just a placebo effect though. Hoping this finally solved the problem, but it may take a while to pop up again as it was pretty sporadic when it happened in the past.

Universal guide to fixing anything on an Audi.


Step 1: Do not start throwing parts at the car. Get the car scanned, using VCDS and find the error codes.

Step 2: Consider codes and research what issue they are related to.

Step 3: Replace the correct part.

Step 4: Beer.

Step 5: ????.

Step 6: Profit.




People seem to think that throwing parts at a car will fix it. But Diagnostics are called diagnostics for a reason, a doctor doesn't see you come in with a cough and throw you a bottle of nyquil and say "go sleep it off". No, he studies you, he examines your symptoms and tries to correlate them to precedents, that is effective diagnostics.


So....Lets get that car scanned.

[BigFat]

Per above:

Here are the codes:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 01: Engine Labels: 06F-907-115-AXX.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 8E0 910 115 P HW: 8E0 907 115 D
Component and/or Version: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 0020
Software Coding: 010C010A180F0120
Work Shop Code: WSC 01405 444 68094
VCID: 2E58D892B94B566E39B-807B
4 Faults Found:

005465 - Throttle Body (J338)
P1559 - 008 - Fault in basic settings - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 10101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 138745 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 245 /min
Load: 33.7 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 66.0°C
Temperature: 55.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 960.0 mbar
Voltage: 11.049 V

005497 - Throttle Actuator (J338)
P1579 - 001 - Adaptation Not Started - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 138752 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 302 /min
Load: 43.1 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 53.0°C
Temperature: 51.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 960.0 mbar
Voltage: 11.430 V

000545 - Angle Sensor 2 for Throttle (G188)
P0221 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 10101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 4
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 138770 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1873 /min
Load: 33.7 %
Speed: 14.0 km/h
Temperature: 46.0°C
Temperature: 32.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 970.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.843 V

000289 - Throttle Position Sensor (G69)
P0121 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 10101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 4
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 138770 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1087 /min
Load: 39.2 %
Speed: 19.0 km/h
Temperature: 47.0°C
Temperature: 30.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 970.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.716 V

[mec]

Looks like you need to perform a throttle body adaptation using VCDS

[BigFat]

We've done that, numerous times. Problem keeps returning.

[mec]

We've done that, numerous times. Problem keeps returning.

Are you 100% sure it was performed correctly? One of those codes is specifically about improper calibration.

If you are 100% sure then you should trace the wiring back to the ECU make sure that there are no issues with it, wiring issues could also lead to an inability to properly calibrate it.

When you run through the adaptation, pull off the throttle body hose and visually make sure that the throttle body is opening and closing, if that is not happening then you need to look into wiring, and possibly a fried ECU if you have a severe wiring issue.

[BigFat]

I'll do just that. Thanks for the help so far.

[BigFat]

Here's the latest VagCom scan, FWIW:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 01: Engine Labels: 06F-907-115-AXX.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 8E0 910 115 P HW: 8E0 907 115 D
Component and/or Version: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 0020
Software Coding: 010C010A180F0120
Work Shop Code: WSC 01405 444 68094
VCID: 2E58D892B94B5651CC3-807B
2 Faults Found:

000289 - Throttle Position Sensor (G69)
P0121 - 008 - Implausible Signal - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 3
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 161213 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2739 /min
Load: 18.4 %
Speed: 59.0 km/h
Temperature: 88.0°C
Temperature: 24.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.589 V

000545 - Angle Sensor 2 for Throttle (G188)
P0221 - 008 - Implausible Signal - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 3
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 161213 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2756 /min
Load: 12.9 %
Speed: 60.0 km/h
Temperature: 88.0°C
Temperature: 25.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.462 V


Readiness: 0000 0101

[milk]

Updates?! I'm getting the same issues on my B7 s4 avant. Ive done multiple tb resets, replaced tb with a brand new one, replaced maf with brand new one, replaced Intake manifold with used but better than mine... Car was at the shop to get all this work done and hopefully fix the problem but alas its still there.... I'm gong to try a few of the above suggestions and show this thread to the shop.

[esandes]

I just had the P0121 code come up after the ECU and ESP light came on and went to limp mode. First time in 12 years.

- - - Updated - - -

Pardon me. P0221 not P0121.

[EvolutionArmory]

I just had the P0121 code come up after the ECU and ESP light came on and went to limp mode. First time in 12 years.

- - - Updated - - -

Pardon me. P0221 not P0121.

Do you have VCDS?