Audi CPO Dispute...need advice

[MaXaZoR]

Currently looking for information and possibly legal advice on a CPO dispute I'm having with the dealership I bought my car.

In November 2013, I bought a 2011 Audi A4 Avant CPO @47k. One of the main reasons I bought the car was it was a CPO car and it was warrantied for 100k. The car was purchased in MA, and I live in NJ, so the dealership I bought the car in not my current service dealership. Now after 4,000 miles I'm having issues with the car, I'm having brake shuddering and I'm having oil consumption issues. So last week I scheduled a maintenance visit with my current dealership for the brakes and Stage 1 oil consumption test. I dropped the car off, and shortly after I got a call from the service dept that the car was previously flagged TD1 and any warranty service for oil consumption won't be covered. Additionally they found all 4 brakes/rotors need to be replaced.

So this is the part of the story that I disclose that I did not modify the ECM is any way and didn't want to modify the ECM, so i was shocked to find out the car was flagged TD1. So I called tuning shops (Stasis, APR, etc) to determine if they had any records of the car being modified. APR was able to provide me records that my car was modified in June 2011 with Stage 1 and provided me with the tuning shop. Checking with my current dealer I was able to also verify the car was previously flagged TD1 during the regular 5k maintenance check. So the previous owner, bought the car and flashed it immediately after and was flagged during the first visit.

I talked to my current service manager and he states that the car should have never passed CPO, and would have been kick out of the system for the TD1 flag. Currently I have tried reaching out the dealership and have gotten no response, but "we'll look into it" This is crazy that they could "certify" the car that already has TD1 flag.

Now comes where I need the advise, I'm sure I can work out a deal with AoA to cover my original warranty deal. However this impacts my resell value when I sell the car and how I perceive the car tremendously. Should I be asking for the dealer for money back? I'm also pissed off that I need to change the brakes already after owning the car for a couple of months. If the dealer overlooked TD1 flagged it also makes me question what was written in the CPO report for the brakes and rotors.

Has anyone had any experiences like this before, I feel like I'm in a catch 22.

[Stubek]

Ask AoA if you flash back to stock if they will remove TD1. I did see one member a year or so ago in the S4 section post a written letter from AoA saying if he showed he was flashed back to stock they would remove the TD1. It was this exact issue.

[AWDLover]

Check your paperwork and make sure it is indicated that it was sold CPO. I would try to get AOA to buy back the vehicle or provide documentation saying that you will not be denied warranty through the duration of the CPO warranty

[booost]

Can't offer anything on the TD1...that really sucks. When I bought my car CPO I found out a while later that the brake pads and rotors need replaced, it's wear and tear therefore not covered by the warranty.

[timob]

You've apparently (from your stated facts) been defrauded by the seller, as your entire powertrain warranty is blocked. so you really have no CPO. You need to be much more aggressive, certified letter with copies to Audi of America and dealer saying you want toi return the car for a refund. Did you get the multi-page CPO checklist with the car, did the bill of sale say CPO? If not, start wondering whether the car was CPO. This could be a $7-10G hit even for the oil consumption fix., so it's worth spending some money on. Have yoiu checked the carfax record? That will show whether the oil issue was addressed. The CPO is backed by Audi of america, and they should have blocked the cert. Please be conscious that a third party waarranty is not CPO. 47k is pretty high for a CPO.
You must crank this up to letters, not phone calls.

[MaXaZoR]

Paperwork and everything in the system indicate it was sold as CPO. Yes, I have the booklet too. I'm looking for AoA to stand behind warranty, and I'm looking for cash from dealership to cover difference on maintenance from having the tune (pay to play should not be covered by me).

I understand CPO doesn't cover wear and tear, but it's obviously dealership didn't do due diligence on the car, so after 4k miles all four brakes and rotors need replacement sends up another flag in my book

[timob]

Also, the CPO folder has provision for exact brake measurements--check that as well. Brakes, of course, can be ruined by a bad driver in 1000 miles, so that's kind of tricky.

[r6_11b8]

Check your paperwork and make sure it is indicated that it was sold CPO. I would try to get AOA to buy back the vehicle or provide documentation saying that you will not be denied warranty through the duration of the CPO warranty

this is honestly your best bet...that or trade the car in or sell it since it still has somewhat low miles and people are always looking for an avant

good luck...but def check with AOA thats bs!

[timob]

I should also have said that brakes a big service department sell item, so check that yourself to be sure they are bad. At 47,000 the service record is likeley to show one brake service.

[o1turbo30v]

How strange, both my wife and i bought CPO and we both were told at two different dealerships that in order for the car to be CPO they had to change all the brake rotors, pads, and tires regardless. I think everything should work out for you, if you dont get what you need from the dealers call AoA, they take that stuff pretty seriously.

[MaXaZoR]

For CPO, they have to pass a "standard" otherwise they need to be replaced. I was told by a friend, bad dealers will sometime play the cards and write up the parts are in spec when they are just out.

I actually fought and won another dispute with the same dealer for a new tire. They gave me 3 NEW tires, then called the last one "in spec" When I checked it was out of spec, they were just trying to save themselves a cost of a new tire.

[r6_11b8]

For CPO, they have to pass a "standard" otherwise they need to be replaced. I was told by a friend, bad dealers will sometime play the cards and write up the parts are in spec when they are just out.

I actually fought and won another dispute with the same dealer for a new tire. They gave me 3 NEW tires, then called the last one "in spec" When I checked it was out of spec, they were just trying to save themselves a cost of a new tire.

least you have that against them if they try to do you dirty again...not a good look for the dealer if they got caught once already

[SleeperCar]

CPO is only as good as how thorough the dealership really is...i bet they just rolled this car up...checked a bunch of boxes...and rolled it on out!

[timob]

The wierd thing about this is that the CPO regiistration goes toAudi of A., and i know that because i got stuck near a different dealer from my selling dealer shortly after purchase with an ignition issue, and they picked up the CPO from the computer, no proff at all from me, and had me back on the road, no charge to me, in 45 minutes. It's really a puzzle how a flagged car could have gotten thru the system.

[doowopaudi]

Check out my experience with AoA in this thread. I had to take it all the way to the President of Audi.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...?highlight=CPO

[Project Quattro]

I understand CPO doesn't cover wear and tear, but it's obviously dealership didn't do due diligence on the car, so after 4k miles all four brakes and rotors need replacement sends up another flag in my book

To my knowledge, factory warranties never cover routine wear items like brake pads and rotors. An add-on like Audicare might, though. It even covered a headlight bulb which burned out on mine. Good luck with the TD1 dispute, it may be a pain to deal with but with all that documentation it seems like you've got a strong case.

[r6_11b8]

Check out my experience with AoA in this thread. I had to take it all the way to the President of Audi.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...?highlight=CPO

sweet jesus what a thread...lol..you should make this into a movie haha glad tings worked out for you though good info in your thread

[doowopaudi]

sweet jesus what a thread...lol..you should make this into a movie haha glad tings worked out for you though good info in your thread

Thanks. Yeah, it was quite the experience that came with a valuable lesson. I hope the OP gets this straightened out.

[b6onboost]

Sounds like you've got the documentation and proof that they sold you a car explicitly as CPO when it could never have met their own standards. Escalate to dealer management and AoA.

It'd give them two options:

1. Request they re-perform a CPO inspection and provide a list of everything that is out of spec. Since there is proof that the dealer obviously did not perform a proper CPO inspection prior to the sale, you can be skeptical on all the other items, including those brakes. Ask that they honor the full CPO warranty, clear the TD1 off the record, and fix any items that do not pass the CPO inspection.

2. Request they buy the car back providing a complete refund.

[Just A B8]

Your resale value is a lot lesser Josh, play those cards and try to get that back in a cash refund if at all possible. I know you don't really want to return this avant since it has all the specs that you were looking for. Good luck sir!

[MaXaZoR]

Just got off the phone with the GM, they are still waiting for AoA techs to look into the details of the car. He said 2-3 more days before he expects a reply.

[name.goes.here]

Just got off the phone with the GM, they are still waiting for AoA techs to look into the details of the car. He said 2-3 more days before he expects a reply.

Have you contacted the MA dealer about all of this - what is their response?

[MaXaZoR]

Yup, still waiting for AoA response I guess

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[wabbit23]

How strange, both my wife and i bought CPO and we both were told at two different dealerships that in order for the car to be CPO they had to change all the brake rotors, pads, and tires regardless. I think everything should work out for you, if you dont get what you need from the dealers call AoA, they take that stuff pretty seriously.

Had the same thing with mine. CPO required new brakes, rotors and tires (if worn past a certain point). Also the checklist which should've been provided to you lists everything that their techs inspected for to get the certification. Scanning the ECU is one of the main steps.

I would just have the dealer buy it back, they falsely sold it to you as a CPO'd car when it definitely wasn't. Go get your money back!


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[skis4hire]

For the brakes: There is a minimum width of the brake pad, and possibly the rotor, I can't recall. It should be listed on your CPO checklist. Ask your current dealer to measure this and see if the difference makes sense for the mileage you've put on.

For the warranty: best of luck. I wouldn't push some kind of compensation for excessive wear/tear due to existing tune, sounds tenuous. I'm sure there are other avenues to get some compensation for this hassle and possibly diminished resale value.

[bluetori]

The fact is this AoA signed off on this car as a CPO having already existing knowledge of the car being flagged at 5k. Regardless of it being flagged they cannot deny their laziness on this. Chances are they were having trouble selling the car without a warranty and we're hoping that this problem wouldn't occur. Either way they have to fix it out of their own pocket.

Best to you

[amz]

I'd look at it from the paperwork standpoint. They sold you a CPO car for $XXX. Thing is, the car you recieved is not a CPO car. Either the dealership provides you with the car they sold you (one with CPO, and other matching aspects), or they give your money back for defaulting on their end of the bargain (delivering a CPO car.) I would bet you a beer (if you ever make it up to Ottawa!) that if you walked in with a lawyer, you'd be at the table for 10 minutes before they made an offer to buy the car back.

[UberBrute]

I'd look at it from the paperwork standpoint. They sold you a CPO car for $XXX. Thing is, the car you recieved is not a CPO car. Either the dealership provides you with the car they sold you (one with CPO, and other matching aspects), or they give your money back for defaulting on their end of the bargain (delivering a CPO car.) I would bet you a beer (if you ever make it up to Ottawa!) that if you walked in with a lawyer, you'd be at the table for 10 minutes before they made an offer to buy the car back.

This is what I would do personally. You can make a big argument about the fact that you bought a CPO because you didn't want to mess with someone elses experiment. Clearly your car was tuned, audi knew it, the dealer should have known, and they tried to pull a fast one. Long story short, you did not get what you thought you were getting. Its almost like buying a counterfeit of something while being told that its real.... best of luck either way

[Jared234]

Who was the dealer? I got screwed on a CPO that needed all new wheels and control arms the week after I took delivery. I am in MA

[r6_11b8]

I'd look at it from the paperwork standpoint. They sold you a CPO car for $XXX. Thing is, the car you recieved is not a CPO car. Either the dealership provides you with the car they sold you (one with CPO, and other matching aspects), or they give your money back for defaulting on their end of the bargain (delivering a CPO car.) I would bet you a beer (if you ever make it up to Ottawa!) that if you walked in with a lawyer, you'd be at the table for 10 minutes before they made an offer to buy the car back.

yup any car or bike manufacturer will bend over backwards for you if you get an attorney involved(if they know theyre in the wrong)....had my bike dealership try to dick me around with warranty work since my bike wasnt running properly..soon as i mentioned that i would be coming in with my attorney later this week..parts started flying in and shit got done within a weeks time

if the dealer and AOA still refuse to do anything for you...i will bet you a beer also an attorney will love to handle this easy case for you

[doowopaudi]

For the brakes: There is a minimum width of the brake pad, and possibly the rotor, I can't recall. It should be listed on your CPO checklist. Ask your current dealer to measure this and see if the difference makes sense for the mileage you've put on.

That is correct. The brake pads must have a minimum of 50% pad left before they are required to be changed. This is all in the 300point inspection paperwork. Tires also have to match and have a specific minimum amount of tread left.

[b6onboost]

The bottom line is dealer did NOT perform an accurate CPO inspection, since they CPOd a TD1 car, which means everything and anything on the CPO list could have also been falsified.

[nerv81]

I would push for a refund or an equally equipped replacement. I wouldn't want that car knowing it was chipped and possibly abused considering you never wanted to chip the car.

[name.goes.here]

As a lawyer, I can tell you that your starting point is to: (1.) file a demand pursuant to MA GL 93A (unfair/deceptive acts/practices) - don't need to retain counsel, you can find draft wording on-line and send yourself to the dealer; (2.) File a complaint with the BBB,; and, (3.) other recourse under the MA AG's office. My experience is with insurance, but the 93A demand letter often gets results and is easy for a lay-person to draft themselves.

[ramellis65]

Yea i would def make sure you have a CPO folder with everything checked off. Also what dealer in NJ are you going to do to get service. I live in NJ and there are a couple that are great. Brakes are wear and tear. they should have had 50% life left to them when sold to you. If not contact AUDI corporate

[Jared234]

Yea i would def make sure you have a CPO folder with everything checked off. Also what dealer in NJ are you going to do to get service. I live in NJ and there are a couple that are great. Brakes are wear and tear. they should have had 50% life left to them when sold to you. If not contact AUDI corporate

I have a CPO sheet with everything checked off. Reality is they don't even look at the car, they just check all the boxes and mark up the price.
I went through all the legal stuff with AoA, I lost and they told me to piss off.
Sorry but you got screwed

[doowopaudi]

I have a CPO sheet with everything checked off. Reality is they don't even look at the car, they just check all the boxes and mark up the price.
I went through all the legal stuff with AoA, I lost and they told me to piss off.
Sorry but you got screwed

I had success with contacting AoA on a car that was written off as CPO when it failed to meet the specs. They screwed me, but in the end, I made sure they made things right.

[MaXaZoR]

Who was the dealer? I got screwed on a CPO that needed all new wheels and control arms the week after I took delivery. I am in MA

Sent PM, not dragging names into this unless it's needed

[MaXaZoR]

Still waiting for a response from the dealer, personally I would "love" for them to take the car back, but in reality I would not be able to find a replacement for it. It's a 2011 White A4 Avant Prestige S-Line w/ Sport Package . It's beyond a rare find, when I bought the car they had me over a barrel with negotiating. I love the car, but I specially looked for CPO because I didn't want to deal with the maintenance aspect. My concern is that long term what the effect of the tune may have on the car, with early oil consumption issues, my research shows it tends to get worse over the life of the car. Currently I just had Stage 1 performed as AoA did approve that job, we'll see what that results.

[Jared234]

Ill take this opportunity to badmouth my dealer.

Herb Chambers Audi of Burlington, MA

Stay far away