S4 Engine swap... an option?

[VancouverS4]

Just throwing it out there but with everyone wanting to go stage 2+ and the constant craving for POWER (read like Clarkson) at what point does all the money spent stop making sense and if it is an option when will someone swap in a S6/S7 motor. Same transmission I believe, different ECU though.

I'm sure it would be an epic journey to make it work but is it even a possibility?

[Jones2012s4]

We really don't spend that much money to go fast.

Stage 2
Intake
Exhaust

That is pretty much all that is required to have a low 12 second street car. Those who want "more" power should have bought a different platform. The money that would be spent buying a motor, customizing drivetrain and electrical, will most likely cost as much as simply buying something faster out of the box.

That said, anything is possible with deep pockets. If someone is overly attached to the look and interior of the S4 I could see them doing it. However, not sure if someone with that much money would even have an S4, they would have bought something faster out of the box, as stated.

If anything, it makes most sense to spend this money for exactly what I listed. It makes less sense to do what you are suggesting.

[raudiace4]

^ exactly.

The only engine I'd give up the 3.0 sc in our cars for is the 4.0tt in the bigger Audis. That would be fun, and I'm just waiting for someone to find a totaled S6/7/8 to do this with.

[MrFunk]

^^

I think most people are plenty impressed with their Stage 2 cars... a relatively modest/conservative upgrade for considerable power increase.
This is not the type of vehicle you are going to see people swapping engines like old muscle cars and crate motors... Perhaps in another 15 years when these are much older platforms.

[RudyH]

LS swap - joking

IMO, I would trade in for a RS7 - got a feeling that just waiting for the B9 will be worth it. One thing that the B5 and B8 have in common is that the engine is based off a pretty much bullet proof engine and I wouldn't toss it out.

[Shaman]

I don't see why people are hell-bent on turning their nice luxury sedan into a racing car. Racing cars are brutal, demanding and uncomfortable. But that's just me... some of the Stage 2 guys are running well into the 11s @ 115+ on the strip, and that's a fast car to begin with. For road racing and general hooliganery (is that a word?), there are several more satisfying choices.

It's your money, though. Sure, a RS7 engine swap would be cool... but why not just get a RS7...

[raudiace4]

I don't see why people are hell-bent on turning their nice luxury sedan into a racing car. Racing cars are brutal, demanding and uncomfortable. But that's just me... some of the Stage 2 guys are running well into the 11s @ 115+ on the strip, and that's a fast car to begin with. For road racing and general hooliganery (is that a word?), there are several more satisfying choices.

It's your money, though. Sure, a RS7 engine swap would be cool... but why not just get a RS7...

True but all the 11s guys are 100 octane. Getting these cars into 11s consistently with pump gas is hard.

[Shaman]

True but all the 11s guys are 100 octane. Getting these cars into 11s consistently with pump gas is hard.

Get a Hayabusa, fit lightweight bodywork to it, run 8s. You can get a used one for about $5K these days. It will do high 8s @ 150+ mph all day long.

If you want your S4 to be really fast, it will cease to be a S4. It will be a racing car that looks like a S4.

As for the swap, I imagine that the 4.0L won't fit... the block would likely be fine, but all the turbo plumbing has to go somewhere.

[autoluxe]

Does anyone know what or if there is a size difference between the 4.2 and the 4.0TT? Obviously not the displacement, but the physical size of it. If the 4.2 fits in the RS4, I wonder if you could get the 4.0TT in there. That would be amazing.

[raudiace4]

Get a Hayabusa, fit lightweight bodywork to it, run 8s. You can get a used one for about $5K these days. It will do high 8s @ 150+ mph all day long.

If you want your S4 to be really fast, it will cease to be a S4. It will be a racing car that looks like a S4.

As for the swap, I imagine that the 4.0L won't fit... the block would likely be fine, but all the turbo plumbing has to go somewhere.

I don't care for bikes or trapping 11s in the 1/4 with my S4. Just pertaining to OP sounds like he wants more usable power everyday, on pump as apposed to running 100 on track days. Stage 2 is fast enough for me in a DD S4.

[Shaman]

I don't care for bikes or trapping 11s in the 1/4 with my S4. Just pertaining to OP sounds like he wants more usable power everyday, on pump as apposed to running 100 on track days. Stage 2 is fast enough for me in a DD S4.

No kidding. However, anything running in the 11s or quicker is pretty tough to use on anything but perfect pavement. Having owned 600hp cars, I can attest to that. AWD helps, of course, but at some point you're chasing after marginal gains in real-world performance and 500whp+ on the street definitely qualifies.

[raudiace4]

No kidding. However, anything running in the 11s or quicker is pretty tough to use on anything but perfect pavement. Having owned 600hp cars, I can attest to that. AWD helps, of course, but at some point you're chasing after marginal gains in real-world performance and 500whp+ on the street definitely qualifies.

Agreed, this is my first "fast" car and will be my learning tool as I climb the automotive performance ladder to better/faster cars. I don't see how anything much faster than a stage 2 s4 can be even enjoyed on the streets legally. I have a hard time staying at reasonable speeds without trying.

[IanCH]

Agreed, this is my first "fast" car and will be my learning tool as I climb the automotive performance ladder to better/faster cars. I don't see how anything much faster than a stage 2 s4 can be even enjoyed on the streets legally. I have a hard time staying at reasonable speeds without trying.

even stock the S4 has about 3 seconds of legal speed anywhere outside of the highway... I'm not a legal nagger like some and I regularly ignore the speed limit, but you get to dangerous real quick and that's where I stop.

[Shaman]

I've gone ditch to ditch on slippery pavement trying to pass another car. Now, this was a RWD car with no traction control. But think about it... if traction control is stealing 100hp to keep you from going off the road, then what's the point of going through the expense to get it? :) On good pavement and higher speeds is where more power really shines... such as a race track. And I'll say it again, if that's the kind of car you want then I don't think the S4 was the right choice. Get a 'vette, they're cheaper than the S4 and considerably quicker and more enjoyable on a race track... or something like a Porsche Boxster if you prefer. If it's got to be AWD, get a cheap Evolution and one of the big number stage kits. The B8+ S4 is a luxury car with really good performance, full stop... and I don't know why I see so many people trying to make it into a lumber cart with a rocket engine, aka racing car.

[MrFunk]

I'd buy an S4 with a 4.0tt in it... and be happy! But I would not pay what it would cost to swap motors when I already have a phenomenal power plant in mine with north of 450hp that I barely even tap into on the street. Would I love 550hp? Hells yeah! But I'd never put my perfectly good S4 through the surgery - after intrusive procedures like that cars are never the same.

[A4 Centaur]

OP, you would probably be better off trying to figure out how to shed weight off the car, which would translate into a "faster" car, and would be cheaper than a +40k engine swap.

The B8 weighs what? 3800 Lbs? That is Fat.

[SwankPeRFection]

It would be an interesting endeavor to undertake. The sheer amount of electronic doodads should make it nice and interesting too. lol Who wouldn't want the S6 engine in an S4 though? I bet if you wait long enough, the B9 will do that just with the Macan engine... which one is the only question. I'm thinking they do the base one for the S4 and the bigger one for the RS4. This supercharger engine was an holdover for them to give people coming from the V8 something until they had more time to develop a traditional TT based motor to move the platform to. The couple of years they get out of the Macan on the roads for real-world testing on power/drivability will give them the data needed to know how to tune the 4 series B9 gen.

[Infra]

Audi had many issues getting the 4.0TT to not catch on fire in the R8, and eventually gave up and just stuck a Gallardo engine in there. Good luck doing an aftermarket job to shoe horn it into the S4, AND not have your car eventually melt into slag.

I guarantee you no one will ever successfully do this.

[drob23]

I'd much rather get one of these and do the same LS3 engine swap

[westwest888]

Why wouldn't you swap a 2.5TFSI, as long as you're talking crazy?

[AofC_RR]

First of all you could spend a ridiculous amount of money in the pursuit of more POWER before an engine swap to another Audi motor made sense. Even if you got lucky and found a T-boned S6/S7 to swipe an engine from the cost of that motor would still be huge. Then heat shielding your engine bay(pop the hood on one sometime...) then getting exhaust to fit, a proper subframe, the computers to communicate properly, etc you would be pretty deep into it financially. And you'd have an even nose heavier pig than before.

[westwest888]

First of all you could spend a ridiculous amount of money in the pursuit of more POWER before an engine swap to another Audi motor made sense. Even if you got lucky and found a T-boned S6/S7 to swipe an engine from the cost of that motor would still be huge. Then heat shielding your engine bay(pop the hood on one sometime...) then getting exhaust to fit, a proper subframe, the computers to communicate properly, etc you would be pretty deep into it financially. And you'd have an even nose heavier pig than before.

+1. This S4 is a tailored suit underneath. It'd be like Chris Farley and David Spade switching suits. See my thread about the S4 taken apart and how tight the tolerances are for the cats, the transmission position, the front diff, etc. You wouldn't be able to shoe a V8 in here without moving it forward 8" at least.

The 2.5TFSI is a more reasonable conversation to have since it's smaller, but that's a transverse mount engine. It would be bad ass to mount it longitudinally like a BMW. I don't think the teeth would line up to the B8 transmissions:





http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...e-guts-removed

[ENV²]

We really don't spend that much money to go fast.

Stage 2
Intake
Exhaust

That is pretty much all that is required to have a low 12 second street car. Those who want "more" power should have bought a different platform. The money that would be spent buying a motor, customizing drivetrain and electrical, will most likely cost as much as simply buying something faster out of the box.

That said, anything is possible with deep pockets. If someone is overly attached to the look and interior of the S4 I could see them doing it. However, not sure if someone with that much money would even have an S4, they would have bought something faster out of the box, as stated.

If anything, it makes most sense to spend this money for exactly what I listed. It makes less sense to do what you are suggesting.

This is very true. For the money you would spend on swaps you could buy a C63 and roast a tuned and pulleyed S4 and hang with most if not all the V8TTs untuned. Before ever doing any engine swap I would just buy a faster car/platform.

[b6onboost]

It stops making sense when the cost/effort required to make the swap comes anywhere close to an alternative 'faster car'.

A 12 second Stage 2+ S4 is fast. Don't know who realistically 'needs' more power in a 4 door luxury sports sedan. Stage 2+ isn't that expensive. In fact it's dirt cheap compared to how much an engine swap would cost. If speed is truely your goal, there are many alternative cars that make more sense.

Just throwing it out there but with everyone wanting to go stage 2+ and the constant craving for POWER (read like Clarkson) at what point does all the money spent stop making sense and if it is an option when will someone swap in a S6/S7 motor. Same transmission I believe, different ECU though.

[rs4dreams]

This is very true. For the money you would spend on swaps you could buy a C63 and roast a tuned and pulleyed S4 and hang with most if not all the V8TTs untuned. Before ever doing any engine swap I would just buy a faster car/platform.

Agreed. Plus, the exhaust doesn't really add power and costs almost half the money so just stage 2 and intake ($2500 installed) get you there.

[IanCH]

I also find it interesting that people would be so eager to drop large amounts of cash that cannot be recouped into a mid level luxury in the name of speed, when you can get into a much more expensive car that is faster, actually insurable, and possible to finance the price difference at the current low interest rates.

[SwankPeRFection]

+1. This S4 is a tailored suit underneath. It'd be like Chris Farley and David Spade switching suits. See my thread about the S4 taken apart and how tight the tolerances are for the cats, the transmission position, the front diff, etc. You wouldn't be able to shoe a V8 in here without moving it forward 8" at least.

The 2.5TFSI is a more reasonable conversation to have since it's smaller, but that's a transverse mount engine. It would be bad ass to mount it longitudinally like a BMW. I don't think the teeth would line up to the B8 transmissions:

What teeth? lol You mean the starter gear ring on the flywheel? I told you in your other thread that you didn't know what half the shit was that you were taking pics of and writing descriptions for.


And if you'd ever done an engine swap you should know that most of the time the new engine will need a new trans that originally went with it anyway. Only time the same trans can be used is when the existing is one that fits and is used across multiple same series engines from the same manufacturer. Like B-Series trans on a Honda/Acura being used on other B-Series engines in other models in their lineup. The same would hold true for D and K series motors/trans combos too, etc.

[BoostEasy]

Just throwing it out there but with everyone wanting to go stage 2+ and the constant craving for POWER (read like Clarkson) at what point does all the money spent stop making sense and if it is an option when will someone swap in a S6/S7 motor. Same transmission I believe, different ECU though.

I'm sure it would be an epic journey to make it work but is it even a possibility?

Probably not feasible without near-factory level tuning help. The biggest obstacle in the CANBUS integration of all the required powertrain electronics with everything else in the car. It's like an ethernet network (which will itself supposedly replace shitty canbus soon in cars) where all the modules need to talk and cooperate and if they don't you lose your radio, your dashboard or the enchilada. Not pretty.

Probably feasible to bore/stroke the 3.0T out to 3.6-4.0L and throw a St3 SC on it when available, but with the torque it'd make you'd probably toast a DSG. 6MT with an uncomfortable clutch might work though. Prob $50k in mods, maybe more.

Like others said, I'd look at other platforms like the S6/S7, M5 or E63S (now AWD!). Or just buy a GT500 and with some moderate bolt-ons run 9s for 1/2 the price and keep the S4 St2 for saner travel.

[izzyy]

This is very true. For the money you would spend on swaps you could buy a C63 and roast a tuned and pulleyed S4 and hang with most if not all the V8TTs untuned. Before ever doing any engine swap I would just buy a faster car/platform.

+63 runs high 11's stock

[Dr Chill]

Or you could have the best of all without swapping anything like in my garage.