Stage 1 oil consumption test..Let's do this =[

[SpoolBus]

Check my oil religiously, 1 quart low about 2k miles after my 85k mile service (which includes oil change).
"That's weird" (not normal on my car) so I added the 1 quart and reset the trip odometer. Checked it every fuel fill didn't notice much of a change until 750ish miles..low 3/4 of a quart..great!
Having a 3rd party (worthless) warranty I figured I would bring it into Audi and have the car checked.

"No leaks and everything checks out fine"..."well where do you suspect oil is going?".."Possible rings but will need you to authorize stage 1 of the consumption test which consists of draining oil out then measuring in, drive 700 miles then measure out again"..$350 for the test..sweet.

We all know where this story is going but I pick it up tomorrow for the beginning of the "Stage 1 test" (never heard it put that way) and will update as this process unfolds.

BTW- Audi stated (today) what they considered "normal" is 1qt every 3k miles. Of course I asked this 1st as I have heard Audi claimed 1qt every 1k and didn't want to waste my time/money

[Guitarmageddon]

Check my oil religiously, 1 quart low about 2k miles after my 85k mile service (which includes oil change).
"That's weird" (not normal on my car) so I added the 1 quart and reset the trip odometer. Checked it every fuel fill didn't notice much of a change until 750ish miles..low 3/4 of a quart..great!
Having a 3rd party (worthless) warranty I figured I would bring it into Audi and have the car checked.

"No leaks and everything checks out fine"..."well where do you suspect oil is going?".."Possible rings but will need you to authorize stage 1 of the consumption test which consists of draining oil out then measuring in, drive 700 miles then measure out again"..$350 for the test..sweet.

We all know where this story is going but I pick it up tomorrow for the beginning of the "Stage 1 test" (never heard it put that way) and will update as this process unfolds.

BTW- Audi stated (today) what they considered "normal" is 1qt every 3k miles. Of course I asked this 1st as I have heard Audi claimed 1qt every 1k and didn't want to waste my time/money

And your warranty didnt pay the 350 for the test? Or does the test have to show what you already know it will show before they pay?

[SpoolBus]

Warranty will not cover testing, only failures..so the thought by Audi is we do this test identify a failure and warranty will cover the failed component (even though we all know they won't cover a 17k repair).
Only hope is they refund my warranty $ and I deal with it..

[Baggio]

$350 just to measure in/out of the oil? Would it be cheaper if you brought them your own oil?

[dparm]

$350 just to measure in/out of the oil? Would it be cheaper if you brought them your own oil?

If you want them to foot the price of the engine, you have to play by their rules. It's all spelled out in the warranty booklet.

Frankly I think $350 is a good gamble to take to avoid a $10,000 engine replacement. :-)

[SpoolBus]

If you want them to foot the price of the engine, you have to play by their rules. It's all spelled out in the warranty booklet.

Frankly I think $350 is a good gamble to take to avoid a $10,000 engine replacement. :-)

Dead on!
You have to play the game in any attempt to get the warranty co to pay. They will find ANY out not to pay. I paid $4,400k for a "bumper to bumper" and in order to ensure they make money they fight everything..I have paid more out then they have so far.
Common sense that they are in it to make $..I was naive thinking it would be a sense of security.

[TarlCabot]

have you changed to a different brand/viscosity lately by any chance ?

[TarlCabot]

Dead on!
You have to play the game in any attempt to get the warranty co to pay. They will find ANY out not to pay. I paid $4,400k for a "bumper to bumper" and in order to ensure they make money they fight everything..I have paid more out then they have so far.
Common sense that they are in it to make $..I was naive thinking it would be a sense of security.

that is right on target for what a good warranty company would charge... the $350 you have to pay for the test, will this take care of your deductible at least ?

[TarlCabot]

schedule of covered parts... i think they call it, if you don't have a copy, get one and don't take another step until you read that front to back before you make your next move...

[SpoolBus]

My deductible is only $100 and covered parts on my plan is everything but normal wear items like brakes, shocks etc.
Failed components (outside of OEM specs) are covered to include the engine components..but as we have seen numerous times the warranty company will deny and refund such an expensive charge.

Only change in engine oil spec is the factory change at 85k which was 5-40 instead of my usual 0-40.
I don't think this would cause such a drastic change/loss?

[mankytron]

350 for this test is robbery but if it pays off money well spent. Also I would guess a reman engine from audi r and r would be closer to 20000 grand

[SpoolBus]

Yeah they told me today a long block job is only 2k more than short..only..

[Sipset]

It truly sucks, I pretty consistently have a plume of blue smoke come out when coming to and accelerating from low speeds.
Just gotta work that $8 quart of oil ever 1k miles into your budget.

[SpoolBus]

My fear is it's going to get worse like all other cases I've read about. 1qt every 1k turns into 1qt every 200 miles etc.

[TheSchwa]

Which warranty company did you get...? It would be good for us to document how the different warranty companies handle different claims.

[jmcS4]

It truly sucks, I pretty consistently have a plume of blue smoke come out when coming to and accelerating from low speeds.
Just gotta work that $8 quart of oil ever 1k miles into your budget.

Wow

[Baggio]

If you want them to foot the price of the engine, you have to play by their rules. It's all spelled out in the warranty booklet.

Frankly I think $350 is a good gamble to take to avoid a $10,000 engine replacement. :-)

I wasn't referring to the cost of the replacement engine. I was referring to cost draining, filling and measuring the loss. For that $350 is ripoff. If there is more to it than that, then maybe it is worth it. But 9 times out 10, these 3 rd party warranties will deny the repair even after the test.

[SpoolBus]

The consumption test "involves Audi technical group" yada yada...If you don't do it per Audi procedure then Audi wont recognize it as "an Official test" and the warranty company will say you didn't have an "Official test" so they wont pay. Vicious cycle and no they wont pony up the $17K to do a short block..my hope is they refund my warranty $ after they get the bill.

The parent name of my warranty company slips my mind at the moment (I go though a broker and the paperwork is in the car) but I will be sure to list the parent CO tonight when I get it back.
Never know they may do the right thing and get high praise on here

BTW- Only chain rattle is on cold (20F) start ups, 87K miles, TIP, I dont rag on my car (maybe bring it up to redline 2 times per oil change), mostly all highway mileage, fully documented service history (everything done by Audi) all little stamps in the book for all services etc etc...

[SpoolBus]

Ha..Audi just called me and said "before we start the test we noticed you have RS4 valve covers on your S4 and that would affect the testing"..me-"No they are powder coated S4 covers"..my gawd

[JimmyBones]

Wow, stupid newbies.

[SpoolBus]

Question..when they do this stage 1 I hear there is "reprogramming" or "software update" involved...will this reprogramming screw up my JHM tune?

[Dirtracer603]

From my experience in dealing with these engines there are 4 main possible causes of oil consumption in our cars; any combination between one or even all four could be playing a roll in consumption. PCV valve, intake valve seals, scored cylinder walls, stuck piston rings due to carbon...

[BCsniper]

Question..when they do this stage 1 I hear there is "reprogramming" or "software update" involved...will this reprogramming screw up my JHM tune?

the dealer very well may re-write your ecu back to stock.

also one they and the warranty company know that you have a tune than they will likely immediately deny all repairs and not refund your money.

[B7S4ATX]

I was going through 1 quart/750 miles or so before I had the PCV valve replaced. Since then, hardly any oil consumption. I was scared I had scored cylinder walls, so this was a great relief. There's hope out there is all I'm saying and thanks to this board for helping me diagnose.

[blaelock]

I went through all of this stuff before AoA replaced my short block. My local dealer filled my S4 with 7,090 grams of oil and instructed me to drive 800-1,000 miles, or until the low oil light came up. The low oil light came on at 935 miles. Audi SD calculated oil consumption os 2.1 quarts per thousand. After this, they borescoped the cylinder walls, all of which were scored.

Good luck man, hope it all works out for you in the end.

[dparm]

I wasn't referring to the cost of the replacement engine. I was referring to cost draining, filling and measuring the loss. For that $350 is ripoff. If there is more to it than that, then maybe it is worth it. But 9 times out 10, these 3 rd party warranties will deny the repair even after the test.

I don't agree that $350 is a ripoff. It's exactly what I would expect. You're paying for the oil and the two visits. Hourly rates at dealerships are always pricey.

It's probably $100 for the oil, one hour to drain + change ($125/hr), and another hour to drain it again and measure ($125 again).

[SpoolBus]

Prob is if they re-flash my ECU a CEL for the cats is going to come on and the warranty company doesn't cover cats (Federally warrantied part) and will blame it on the cats.

F'd 4 ways to Sunday on this one

[dparm]

They have to prove the cats caused the problem. That is going to be virtually impossible.

[mistral cytz]

Oil consumption can be slowed and controlled to within reasonable rates on many of our cars. I changed out my PCV valve, gutted my pre cats to reduce heat back up into the engine and now religiously warm up my car by keeping the engine below 3000RPM with minimal load until about 10-15 minutes after my coolant temperature stabilizes. My car goes through much less oil now, maybe a liter every 3k

If you haven't taken these steps and the warranty goes down the drain I would try this. Also, I have found these cars to be VERY sensitive to being completely horizontally level when checking the oil level. Maybe it's the large oil pan and the fact that the dip stick is off to the far drivers side of the engine but if you are parked on a very slight slant the oil can read high or low by a significant amount. Other cars I've owned didn't seem to show this variance.

[Kookie]

My deductible is only $100 and covered parts on my plan is everything but normal wear items like brakes, shocks etc.
Failed components (outside of OEM specs) are covered to include the engine components..but as we have seen numerous times the warranty company will deny and refund such an expensive charge.

Only change in engine oil spec is the factory change at 85k which was 5-40 instead of my usual 0-40.
I don't think this would cause such a drastic change/loss?

I'm a big keep it simple guy...

Using 0-40 you didn't burn.. switched to 5-40 and now you do..

My next step would be to switch back to the same brand & see what happens.

I still don't think it should be burning oil though.

[Kookie]

If you haven't taken these steps and the warranty goes down the drain I would try this. Also, I have found these cars to be VERY sensitive to being completely horizontally level when checking the oil level. Maybe it's the large oil pan and the fact that the dip stick is off to the far drivers side of the engine but if you are parked on a very slight slant the oil can read high or low by a significant amount. Other cars I've owned didn't seem to show this variance.

Great point.

Make sure that when you are checking the oil that it is at a consistent temperature as well. If I remember correctly, Audi suggests that you check the oil 10 minutes after the vehicle has been driven.

[SpoolBus]

Ok so picked up the car and they did not re flash the ECU so my tune is intact!

My warranty company broker is safeguard and the parent company is old republic (which has a A+ rating on BBB)

Audi stated the PCV tested fine
I always check the oil at the pump (flat cement pad) 5 minutes after shutdown.

Now I bring it back between 750-1000 miles for the oil weigh out (in was 7.878kg)

[ladiesgod]

I'll be replacing my PCV soon because of oil consumption issues. If this doesn't work next step is to go deeper.

So for an oil consumption test it HAS to be done but an audi dealership for an insurance company to validate is as a real problem?

[Dirtracer603]

I'm a big keep it simple guy...

Using 0-40 you didn't burn.. switched to 5-40 and now you do..

My next step would be to switch back to the same brand & see what happens.

I still don't think it should be burning oil though.

I know you were just offering an example but switching from 0-40 to 5-40 will offer an unmeasurable difference. Many people are in climates in which they will never utilize the true 0/5 weight variability as well.

[SpoolBus]

I'll be replacing my PCV soon because of oil consumption issues. If this doesn't work next step is to go deeper.

So for an oil consumption test it HAS to be done but an audi dealership for an insurance company to validate is as a real problem?

Yes, you will have to go to the manufacturer to do the manufacturing testing to determine if the engine is within spec. for such a large payout. Warranty will only pay for failed components (not worn) so you have to prove the part has failed (what is considered out of acceptable specs by the manufacturer).
Even if you went to a indi shop to try and prove the case of oil consumption the warranty CO will want you to get the manufacturer to provide their data/testing/statement that the engine is out of spec

This is a $17-20K charge, not a couple hundred dollar hose etc.
I don't anticipate the warranty to cover it, but it's worth a shot!

[BCsniper]

Now I bring it back between 750-1000 miles for the oil weigh out (in was 7.878kg)

you should do a lot of highway miles since it'll tend to burn more oil that way. You'd hate to be right under the threshold of where they say that your consumption is "within spec" and does not warrant a motor replacement.

[SpoolBus]

you should do a lot of highway miles since it'll tend to burn more oil that way. You'd hate to be right under the threshold of where they say that your consumption is "within spec" and does not warrant a motor replacement.

Exactly
I drive 70 miles a day and 60 of that is highway (average 80MPH)
I'm bringing it back at 900+ miles to ensure I didn't just waste $350!

[Kookie]

I know you were just offering an example but switching from 0-40 to 5-40 will offer an unmeasurable difference. Many people are in climates in which they will never utilize the true 0/5 weight variability as well.

I see a very significant burn difference, that's why I offered up the example. It's worth a shot as an option before he does a tear down.

Hopefully his warranty will help him out.

[SD25Quattro]

Check my oil religiously, 1 quart low about 2k miles after my 85k mile service (which includes oil change).
"That's weird" (not normal on my car) so I added the 1 quart and reset the trip odometer. Checked it every fuel fill didn't notice much of a change until 750ish miles..low 3/4 of a quart..great!
Having a 3rd party (worthless) warranty I figured I would bring it into Audi and have the car checked.

"No leaks and everything checks out fine"..."well where do you suspect oil is going?".."Possible rings but will need you to authorize stage 1 of the consumption test which consists of draining oil out then measuring in, drive 700 miles then measure out again"..$350 for the test..sweet.

We all know where this story is going but I pick it up tomorrow for the beginning of the "Stage 1 test" (never heard it put that way) and will update as this process unfolds.

BTW- Audi stated (today) what they considered "normal" is 1qt every 3k miles. Of course I asked this 1st as I have heard Audi claimed 1qt every 1k and didn't want to waste my time/money

I've researched this and looked into it literally since I've owned my 25quattro over 2 years ago... These engines are notorious for burning oil. The main issues I've found with our engines are:

1. Seals are bad
2. Cylinder walls are scored (have Audi use a bore-o-scope, you might be surprised...) If this is the case - you're going to want your warranty to cover it!

One thing to look out for - is the car burning more and more oil... If this is the case then I will almost guarantee you that the cylinders are scored.

I'm looking into JHM motor sleeve and rebuild, but this is serious project work... plans to keep the car lol.

[SpoolBus]

Update!

Dropped car off at Audi today with 980 miles since start of test (between the 750-1000 mile test limit)
Got a brand new A3 sedan loaner..not exciting..
Audi stated my car consumed 1.7 quarts in 1k miles..test failed!

Now onto compression, leak down and borescope!
Waiting to hear if warranty will pay up for anything, I'm prepared to pay for the tests but I'm not paying tear down charges with a hope of warranty paying..

We'll see..!