P2187 (System Too Lean at Idle Bank 1)

[schuno]

So I just picked my new Audi (2010 A4 Quattro, manual 2.0T) up on Saturday and I'm experiencing a few problems that you guys might be able to help me out with.

When I drove the car off of the lot the dealer had given me $15 to go get some gas at the station. I noticed when I pulled out the dashboard said I had 10 miles until empty, which I thought was pretty damn low, but I didn't think much of it. When I pulled out of the gas station (after putting $15 of premium) the engine light came on. I immediately took it back to the dealer and they told me that it was a fuel pressure light caused by the gas being so low and they reset it and sent me on my way.

This morning as I was driving in to work I approached a very long steep hill and decided just to pop the car into neutral and ride down, which I'm not sure is the best thing to do but it was a habit with my Jetta to improve gas mileage on my long commute. When I reached the bottom of the hill my engine light came on (>:|). Luckily, when I got to work a co-worked had an OBDII reader so we could see what the code was. It came back as P2187, System Too Lean at Idle Bank 1. Does anyone know about this code or what the cause may be? Is it because of flying down that hill in neutral?

I am going to reset the code after work and see if it comes back on on my way home or way to work tomorrow. The dealership will fix any issues for the first 3000 miles, but it is over an hour away so I want to be sure it is serious before making the journey out there (I at least hope to wait until the weekend).

Any advice or information about this would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[o1turbo30v]

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...9/P2187/008583

[Frinkferta]

Usually a exhaust leak or bad high pressure fuel pump. My car had this error, but it was for a deprecate issue. I was running an aftermarket cat and an 02 spacer. The car did not like it.

[schuno]

I'm wondering if I tripped the light/sensor when I went down the hill in neutral, although I wouldn't think that it would be that big of a deal.

The other idea I had was maybe since the fuel tank had gotten down to nearly empty (10 miles left) that there was some crap at the bottom of the tank that maybe got in the injectors. I know that the car probably sat in their lot for a month or more so who knows. I was thinking about picking up some fuel injector cleaner to add to the gas tank, the link that was provided 2 posts above also mentioned "injectors leak/blocked" as a possible cause. Any brand suggestions for cleaner?

[BCAPR]

Reviving thread from dead!!! my a4 just had the same error pop up. I was 40km to empty tank. Was that theory the cause? Have you fixed this code??

[FourRingThing]

I did not see this thread when I wrote one earlier, but I was having this code and appear to have corrected it by cleaning my oil fill cap and the area it mates to. worth a try, and its free.

[schuno]

Reviving thread from dead!!! my a4 just had the same error pop up. I was 40km to empty tank. Was that theory the cause? Have you fixed this code??

I do not believe that running the tank low was the cause of the code (at least in my situation).

I cleared the error code at first and then another code showed up (one related to a leak in the air intake system, can't remember the code #), so I brought it back to the dealer and they replaced the PCV valve. Neither code has returned since. Hope that helps!

[Nastybutler]

I'm getting this code along with a P1009 "MAF sensor 1/2, implausible signal from load detection." I'm APR stage 2 with a test pipe and O2 sensor spacer, but I've had this setup (minus the O2 spacer which I installed over the summer) for a year now with no issues. Could my PCV valve already be going out? The car only has 12K miles on it.

[S4'ed]

A bad PCV unit will often throw this code. The rubber diaphragm in the PCV unit ruptures and causes a vacuum leak.

Also, a leaking rear main crankshaft seal will cause excessive air to be drawn thru the PCV system, throwing this same code.

Could be a vacuum leak in many places.

[booost]

Agree it could be the PCV, you should try a boost leak test to confirm where the leak is.

[S4'ed]

An easy check of the PCV diaphragm : With the engine idling, put your finger on the small hole on the side of the PCV unit, If you feel vacuum, the diaphragm is ruptured. The hole is located on the side of the round black plastic top cover, at the end of the straight-line ridge on the top. I recall that the hole faces the passenger side. A new PCV unit is about $135, and takes about 15 minutes to replace. It is worth it to buy this from a VW/Audi dealer, at a higher price than on-line or Ebay vendors, to make sure you get the latest revision of this part. They have revised it a few times...to fix numerous design issues with it.

[Tysonkam]

Or you can buy just the diagram on Amazon for $19. I'm trying that solution tonight.

[S4_SH1640]

Replaced my PCV yesterday and took it for a test drive and no problems. Coming home after work, i got 2 codes P2187, and P0299. Vagcom shows possible causes and issues known but i am not sure where the leak is coming from. Either an exhaust leak or a vacuum leak?

Does anyone have a good link to how to perform a vacuum test?

This is fairly good, but trying to get ideas to how other people did it.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post11467891


Also, (S4'ed) is this what you are talking about?? So this guy appears to have a vacuum leak?

[OzeyeruZ]

I went down the list about a year ago on the possible fixes, from changing my PCV to looking for boost leaks etc. My advice, go to an independent shop and ask them to look at your Rear Main seal, if no leak there then it could be your Front main seal.

For me, P2187 haunted me for months. In the end I had no oil leaks so Rear main was'nt suspected. Changed out my Front Main Seal and no more CEL. Good luck!

Oz

[S4_SH1640]

I went down the list about a year ago on the possible fixes, from changing my PCV to looking for boost leaks etc. My advice, go to an independent shop and ask them to look at your Rear Main seal, if no leak there then it could be your Front main seal.

For me, P2187 haunted me for months. In the end I had no oil leaks so Rear main was'nt suspected. Changed out my Front Main Seal and no more CEL. Good luck!

Oz

I changed the Front seal, and the rear main seal does not show any signs of leaks.

[Steff86]

This code came up yesterday " P218700 (4105) system too lean at idle bank 1 " , It's not the PCV I change that last year also check it for air leek.
Is there away I can tell if its the " Mass Air Flow Sensor or Front Oxygen Sensor or Charcoal Filter (EVAP) System Solenoid Valve 1 (N80)" if anyone
has any idea eliminate some please help !!!!

Audi a4 2009

print screen windows xp

[van462]

Neither the MAF or the N80 are likely. The N80 has its own diagnostic test that run to check the purge systems and it would be found there. You could look over the hardline from the N80 to the intake manifold that area is still possible. The MAF has little function at idle the computer is mostly running off baseline maps. Even with the MAF unhooked your car will idle fine. Lean at idle code is almost always an airleak between the throttle body (the airflow restriction) and the engine intake. The PCV system resides in this zone due to the higher vacuum pressures available when off throttle. The newer PCV pull a higher vacuum on the block. A well sealed block allows the higher vacuum and little air enters the intake, a leak in the block (oil fill cap, front/rear main seals, ..anywhere really) or manifold allow more air than is expected and the ECU detects it via the O2 sensors reading.

Edit: If you have the ability to see your fuel trims you can monitor the Short Term Fuel Trim at idle it will likely be a small positive number, then throttle the idle up to 2000 rpm (vacuum lowers) and you will likely see the fuel trim go back to near 0.

[Steff86]

Thank you this helps me eliminate MAF & (N80). this year March I installed " AFE Pro Dry S filter " in my intake I will check to see if it was connected properly. Also my mechanic did say last month my car was arriving twice the RPM it should be, at 1700 RMP when it should be 700 RPM But didn't know why cause the car was running great. I will order a new oil fill cap from ECS and check ront/rear main seals"

I will update when I try all the fix hopefully this works.

[van462]

Before you order the cap(not a very likely air leak source), a test you can do is remove the hose going from the Intake to the PCV and place a ziplock bag secured with tape or a ziptie over the port on the intake manifold and secure with a ziptie. This will isolate if air leak is coming from the block thru the PCV of from the intake manifold itself. This will only hold at idle if you drive and hit boost it will blow the bag off. I also take off the oil cap when I do this so the block has a way to vent pressure.

[pierreb]

Before you order the cap(not a very likely air leak source), a test you can do is remove the hose going from the Intake to the PCV and place a ziplock bag secured with tape or a ziptie over the port on the intake manifold and secure with a ziptie. This will isolate if air leak is coming from the block thru the PCV of from the intake manifold itself. This will only hold at idle if you drive and hit boost it will blow the bag off. I also take off the oil cap when I do this so the block has a way to vent pressure.

a rubber leg cap from home depot / Lowe's works great for that location as well.

[Steff86]

Good News today I did a check of the air intake make sure the hose was on properly secure after that I change my spark plugs " NGK PFR7S8EG Double Platinum " and ignition coils " RED R8 " & oil change using " MOTUL Specific 505.01" Clean the oil cap and seal. Drove the car for a few miles code did not pop up again. I have a clean dash again thank you van462 for all the help.

[IMG]adult image[/IMG]

post images

[HenrikMeister]

Sorry for bringing this up.. But I am experiencing the same problem. This either happened when I filled the car with gas (when it was on the red line, or under).
Or this is what I think. I changed the air filter myself. And when I was "done" I started the car, and I got a ton of errors. But then I found out that I forgot to connect the MAF Connector.. Everything disappeared after I connected. But I got 1 code left. And its the P2187 lean at idle bank 1. Car drives normal, and I haven't noticed any oil leaks on the ground. I have cleared the codes 2 times, but comes back right away
I noticed when I plugged the big air intake hose hose back in, the clamp didn't "catch", the hose didn't felt tight, but it isn't loose or something. Might this be the reason that I am getting the code? Thanks!

[Downhill]

I just got the P2187 code on my car. And it is shaking at idle, when parked.

Where should I start checking? The PCV seems to be a known culprit... I've seen some oil under my car, and the bottom is dirty with oil splatter. I was attributing that to a leaking drain plug --- I haven't looked at the plug in a long time because I use a vacuum pump for oil changes.

[pierreb]

I just got the P2187 code on my car. And it is shaking at idle, when parked.

Where should I start checking? The PCV seems to be a known culprit... I've seen some oil under my car, and the bottom is dirty with oil splatter. I was attributing that to a leaking drain plug --- I haven't looked at the plug in a long time because I use a vacuum pump for oil changes.

Oil might be rear main seal failure but won't normally cause you a code. Troubleshoot the PCV for sure. Amazon has $17 replacement diaphragm kits.

[S4'ed]

A bad rear crankshaft seal can allow extra air to be pulled in thru the PCV, causing a "Lean at Idle" DTC code. Also true if the front crankshaft seal is worn and allows air to be sucked in. Could also be an air leak of the intake manifold (often at the tumble flap actuator arm pivot, where it goes into the manifold body.

[HenrikMeister]

I installed my new PCV valve with the latest AE revision today. Cleared the code and drove about 5 miles.
I then checked my diag tool and the P2187 appeared as "Pending".... So my issue is still not fixed... Blast..
However, I also got another code P0441- Evap Emission System Incorrect Purge Flow - I guess this is the N80 valve? But I got that fault code about a month ago, the code never came back after a quick clean and ECM reset, until today - right after installing the new PCV and before clearing the EMC, coincidence?
I read post #17 that the N80 has nothing to do with the fault.
Car is not dripping oil, has the newest PCV, new piston and piston rings (Oil consumption problem solved). I hate driving my Audi because of this....

Should I try my luck with a new N80?

EDIT:

I will try to replace the N80

[Quattrimodo]

I've had my A4 for 3 1/2 years from 46,000km at purchase to 95k now and I have not had to do a single thing to it other than a set of PS4's. It got the pistons and rings rebuild under warranty at ~33k and uses no oil whatsoever (touch wood!).

A couple of weeks ago I got the brake pad warning on the dash, no worries, had been expecting that. I had noticed for a while it was a little rough in idle and was worrying about intake carbon etc. A couple of days ago I noticed the idle hanging a little at a bit over 1000 which sent me into mechanical paranoia. The next day I got a CEL, so pulled codes with the VAGCOM I'd bought earlier - P0507 Idle higher than expected and P2187 System Lean at idle. I googled those and landed here, got the pointer to the PCV system and confirmed that there was quite some suction at the rear facing port on the diaphragm chamber.

Being in Australia we tend to get ripped off for everything, so checked US part suppliers for cost of replacement - about au$300 incl express freight. I thought I'd try thr dealer to see how ridiculous their pricing was, and to my surprise it was au$245 and in stock!

Did the swap this morning and car is back to purring like a kitten, I did not notice the gradually worsening roughness at idle, it is much smoother now. Also, now I can put the pieces together, a couple of months ago I'd noticed a slight whistle/whine when I was going up the big hill on the highway near my place, but wasn't sure if it was there before. Confirmed today the noise has gone. Anyhow, just thought I'd post about the quite easy self diagnosis and surprisingly easy and quick fix. Thanks to the forum and it's contributors.

Cheers
Steve

[Zygoat]

Also, (S4'ed) is this what you are talking about?? So this guy appears to have a vacuum leak?
[/QUOTE]

Hey, that's me! And it was indeed a bad (torn) pcv valve causing a vacuum leak. Replaced pcv valve and all was well.