2001 A4 1.8 K04 Swap/Overboost Issues

[pichno]

I've been researching my issues for 2 days now, however with all the different situations found, I feel more confident posting my exact situation in a new thread, thus please don't feel as if I haven't tried digging before making a new thread....

Software-Speedtuning K04 for stock injectors and 5BAR (similar to the GIAC mild program according to Oliver with ST)

Turbo-Buy Auto Parts K04-15 installed 4 days ago

Supporting mods-2.5" exhaust, 3" test pipe, N75J 2 years old, 225TT DV 3 months old, 5BAR FPR

Situation:

I decided to use Speedtunings K04 software on stock injectors and 5BAR while still on the stock k03, ST said I wouldn't have any issues as long as I don't beat the piss out of it. I had the software on the K03 and stock 4BAR for about 3 months without any issues, no codes, etc. I was boosting anywhere between 15-21PSI and the power was great, like I said no issues and no codes. I was actually shocked I didn't throw any Fuel/Air related codes while running the 4BAR and K04 software, but maybe because it was running the K03 with less air flow that's why? Anyway, I did check the fuel trim values via Vag-Com on this setup and everything was good, not lean nor rich...now onto the K04 upgrade issues as of current.

After 3 months of running the K04 software on the K03, I decided to purchase a cheaper K04 to match the software, as well as a 5BAR......

I just had the BuyAutoParts K04 and the 5BAR installed 4 days ago....and right after my mechanic finished the installation/swap of turbo and FPR.....OVERBOOST like crazy! I'm throwing codes for "maxed out MAF" and "overboost limit exceeded." The boost is 25+ to 30+ since my boost gauge only goes to 30PSI. The power is far more than what I should be having on just a K04, it's fun however extremely dangerous and annoying (i.e. no driveability). It'll boost straight to 25psi in first or second gear, but no boost bleeding...just stuck there. In 3rd/4th/5th gears the boost jumps even at 1/2 throttle to 25psi +....and this is when the turbo/ecu cuts out power until I let off the gas. Of course I'm not driving the vehicle after finding all of this out, no way it's safe for the motor, turbo, etc....

So, this week my mechanic will be testing the N75 (although it worked perfect before installing the turbo), testing the DV (although it worked perfect before installing the turbo), checking for boost leaks (no issues found 2 weeks prior to installing the K04 per testing-vacuum is 21hg in idle as well).....

With everything working correctly with the software, 4BAR, and K03 for months before the swap, I'm guessing it's something to do with the turbo (Cheap K04 causing problems wouldn't shock me at this point)......

My mechanic thinks there's something not right with the wastegate, and we'll be testing/adjusting that this week. He does know how to test/adjust the wastegate, but I AM not too sure how all of this works, and would like to know if someone can shed light on the subject? Is the wastegate and actuator the same part(s)? Because the turbo is a chinese knockoff, is it possible that the wastegate could be bad? OR, just needs to be adjusted?

Because the N75J, DV, and software didn't give me any problems for months prior to installing the K04 turbo, doesn't it seem logical that the issue lies withing the turbo itself? I'm going to call BuyAutoParts tomorrow and ask about the wastegate issues, and since the turbo is warrantied for one year, there's no issue with having the send me out a new one, however I'd just hate to get another Chinese replacement and have the same issues. They do sell BW's but for 3 times the price. I'd be willing to pay the money after dealing with the headache, but at this point am just hoping something on the turbo I already have can be adjusted to lower the boost and alleviate the issue(s).

My mechanic is family and I don't get charged labor, and hence is the reason I decided to go with a cheap K04 (also because the vehicle has 250K miles). I have been in contact with a couple other members that run the BuyAutoParts K04 on their A4's without any issues (some of them over 1+ year). I did call Speedtuning and asked them about the software, however Oliver said since there wasn't any issues running it on the K03, and all of the problems with overboost occurred after the K04 install, it's more than likely the turbo and not the software, seems to make sense right?

If anyone has had similar problems with their K04, and were able to resolve the issue with adjusting the wastegate/actuator on the turbo, please help me out! I appreciate the time spent reading this post ahead of time! Since the boost isn't bleeding off, overboosting, and no issues with the N75/DV, software prior to the K04 install, I'm almost sold on the issue being the turbo itself, anyone disagree?

[B5A4coastie]

This isn't a K04, but the theory of an internal wastegate is explained.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-cNZWworNo

[Avant Nate]

Are you sure everything is hooked up properly? I hooked up my EBC backwards and it boosted like that.

[CBlockb5a4]

check the adjustment of the wastegate. usually theyre set to 15-16psi to open, it should be 6psi full open. i ran into the same problem.

[pichno]

"Are you sure everything is hooked up properly? I hooked up my EBC backwards and it boosted like that. "

My mechanic did the install, but the only thing he did was simply remove the K03 and re-install the K04. Do you have to mess with the EBC in a turbo replacement? My mechanic is my uncle, who worked at Audi/VW/Porsche dealerships for over 18 years, and has since opened up his own shop for the past 6. With that said, I'd imagine he did everything properly. I can also understand mistakes happen though...I can mention the EBC thing to him and see what he says.

[pichno]

"check the adjustment of the wastegate. usually theyre set to 15-16psi to open, it should be 6psi full open. i ran into the same problem. "

Sounds good, this process will be completed sometime this week, thanks much for the reply! It's kind of nice knowing someone else ran into the same issue at one point, at least it gives me hope that the issue "may" be resolved without having to deal with an exchange turbo process. I'll keep you updated. :)

[AudiB5owner]

Almost 100% sure it is your turbo wastegate staying shut, thus building some crazy boost. Surprised your tuner doesn't have an overboost condition so your turbo and engine doesn't blow up. Luckily adjusting the wastegate rod isn't that hard to do, I was able to do it with everything still installed on the engine.

[pichno]

Almost 100% sure it is your turbo wastegate staying shut, thus building some crazy boost. Surprised your tuner doesn't have an overboost condition so your turbo and engine doesn't blow up. Luckily adjusting the wastegate rod isn't that hard to do, I was able to do it with everything still installed on the engine.

Yea, not too sure about the tuner honestly, it's Speedtuning USA and Oliver who's in charge over there didn't even know much about his own software, thus my gut tells me he's illegally getting it somehow, he can't tell me who writes it or anything, lol....

Anyway, the wastegate condition you believe is the issue makes me feel better at the moment for sure! My mechanic said he'll be adjusting it this week, but for piece of mind, what is the process you used? In my case anyway, any step by step suggestions? Which way do I turn the nuts/rod/or whatever it is? Even though it'll be my mechanic doing it, it would be nice to know so I can make sure everything is being done the right way, and not the wrong way making the situation worse.

Thanks again for the kind reply, awesome stuff!

[AudiB5owner]

I took the line going to the wastegate actuator and disconnected it from the N75 solenoid. I hooked it up to an air pump. This is how you can test what PSI will open the wastegate, but also be careful not to put too much psi in the line of it can ruin the wastegate actuator.

If you strategically place a mirror on top of the cat, you can see the space in between the turbo and the engine, where the wastegate actuator rod connects to the little flapper on the side of the exhaust housing. You may be able to place a couple finger over the top of the turbo and feel where the rod connects. With a long extension and a deep socket, you can adjust the nuts on the wastegate actuator rod (if your turbo uses this method for adjustment). You will need long needle nose pliers to grip the rod where you can see a small portion of the rod between the compressor and exhaust housing so the whole rod doesn't spin while unscrewing the nuts.

By adjusting the preload on the wastegate by tightening the nuts, you can keep seeing how much PSI it takes to open the wastegate to your liking.

The mechanic can take off the exhaust manifold or cat to get a lot more working room though. If you want, you can use VCDS to see when the N75 loop is engaged, which should stabilize the boost. If it is engaged and boost is still going crazy, the wastegate isn't opening fully because the spring load is way too tight.

Hope that turbo lasts though, give us an update in a few 1000 miles to see how it's doing!

[pichno]

I took the line going to the wastegate actuator and disconnected it from the N75 solenoid. I hooked it up to an air pump. This is how you can test what PSI will open the wastegate, but also be careful not to put too much psi in the line of it can ruin the wastegate actuator.

If you strategically place a mirror on top of the cat, you can see the space in between the turbo and the engine, where the wastegate actuator rod connects to the little flapper on the side of the exhaust housing. You may be able to place a couple finger over the top of the turbo and feel where the rod connects. With a long extension and a deep socket, you can adjust the nuts on the wastegate actuator rod (if your turbo uses this method for adjustment). You will need long needle nose pliers to grip the rod where you can see a small portion of the rod between the compressor and exhaust housing so the whole rod doesn't spin while unscrewing the nuts.

By adjusting the preload on the wastegate by tightening the nuts, you can keep seeing how much PSI it takes to open the wastegate to your liking.

The mechanic can take off the exhaust manifold or cat to get a lot more working room though. If you want, you can use VCDS to see when the N75 loop is engaged, which should stabilize the boost. If it is engaged and boost is still going crazy, the wastegate isn't opening fully because the spring load is way too tight.

Hope that turbo lasts though, give us an update in a few 1000 miles to see how it's doing!

SWEET stuff here bud, thanks so much for your support, pretty cool notion if you ask me. I'll definitely keep you updated once we try the wastegate adjustment.

Take Care!

[Seerlah]

Wastegate is the actual opening in your turbine housing. The actuator is what your n75 is plugged into. The actuator rod/arm is attached to the actuator and extends to the wastegate flapper. This flapper is what covers the wastegate.

[Avant Nate]

"Are you sure everything is hooked up properly? I hooked up my EBC backwards and it boosted
e tha"

My mechanic did the install, but the only thing he did was simply remove the K03 and re-install the K04. Do you have to mess with the EBC in a turbo replacement? My mechanic is my uncle, who worked at Audi/VW/Porsche dealerships for over 18 years, and has since opened up his own shop for the past 6. With that said, I'd imagine he did everything properly. I can also understand mistakes happen though...I can mention the EBC thing to him and see what he says.

Your EBC is your n75, so it's different. I'm just saying that when I hooked it up wrong, I had a similar boost problem.

[pichno]

Your EBC is your n75, so it's different. I'm just saying that when I hooked it up wrong, I had a similar boost problem.

Ah, I see. My mechanic (uncle) didn't touch the N75, made sure to ask him that. Not only that, but it was working proper one day before the K04 install as far as I know.

[pichno]

Wastegate is the actual opening in your turbine housing. The actuator is what your n75 is plugged into. The actuator rod/arm is attached to the actuator and extends to the wastegate flapper. This flapper is what covers the wastegate.

So in my case with turning down the boost, the rod/arm is what needs to be adjusted correct? Also, what's the best way to go about adjusting? Increments I'd imagine, but what kind of increments? I watched a couple videos that showed "1/2" turn revolutions, but I'm just not sure how many to start with? Right now, the boost jumps to the point of 25, 30, possibly even more since my boost gauge stops at 30, so I definitely need to turn it down quite a bit.

Another thing I'm wondering with the K04 and software designed for stock injectors and 5BAR which I have, what PSI range should I be adjusting it too? I know the GIAC K04 software designed for the stock injectors is 20psi or so, according to their phone support personnel anyway. Any suggestions one what you think I should be setting it too once I adjust the things?

[AudiB5owner]

So in my case with turning down the boost, the rod/arm is what needs to be adjusted correct? Also, what's the best way to go about adjusting? Increments I'd imagine, but what kind of increments? I watched a couple videos that showed "1/2" turn revolutions, but I'm just not sure how many to start with? Right now, the boost jumps to the point of 25, 30, possibly even more since my boost gauge stops at 30, so I definitely need to turn it down quite a bit.

Another thing I'm wondering with the K04 and software designed for stock injectors and 5BAR which I have, what PSI range should I be adjusting it too? I know the GIAC K04 software designed for the stock injectors is 20psi or so, according to their phone support personnel anyway. Any suggestions one what you think I should be setting it too once I adjust the things?

Theres two nuts at the end of the rod that connect up to an arm that controls the movement of the wastegate flap inside the exhaust housing like what Seerlah said. You adjust where the nuts are positioned so they lock the wastegate flap lever at a certain position on the actuator rod, giving it more or less of a spring preload. Youtube has some good videos showing how it works. It will most likely be trial and error of moving the rod and seeing how much PSI it takes to move the rod. I'd contact the tuner to see what the tune calls for as to PSI. As long as you aren't running lean and overly rich you should be okay. At least on my Stage 1 on the K03 I peak around 17-20 PSI

[rockersteady]

hmm,
It sounds like a simple case of no pressure to wastegate actuator. line to or from n75 is off or split.

Hook up a NEW hose directly from turbo compressor port to wastegate actuator (same as Disconnect he N75 electrically if hoses are good) , then drive. What ever boost pressure you get now is wastegate cracking pressure. but of course your uncle with 18yrs at Porsche/Audi/VW tech Knows this allready.


Its really hard to tune a turbo that has too much pre load if it is that. 10psi or less will be fine.

And really, K04 software with stock injectors doesnt work. Even at 5 bar there is barely enough fuel at max RPM.
Leave the software in, get some larger injectors and dial down the fuel pressure. Skimping on not changing injectors is nonsense today with the low cost of injectors. Get some red devils 315cc on ebay and calculate what pressure you need to get the same flow as your stocks at 5 bar on one of the many online fuel injector flow calculators.

If its still overboosting when Wastegate cracking is at 10psi or less, check your maf, it may be under reporting and causing it to overboost

[pichno]

I took the line going to the wastegate actuator and disconnected it from the N75 solenoid. I hooked it up to an air pump. This is how you can test what PSI will open the wastegate, but also be careful not to put too much psi in the line of it can ruin the wastegate actuator.

If you strategically place a mirror on top of the cat, you can see the space in between the turbo and the engine, where the wastegate actuator rod connects to the little flapper on the side of the exhaust housing. You may be able to place a couple finger over the top of the turbo and feel where the rod connects. With a long extension and a deep socket, you can adjust the nuts on the wastegate actuator rod (if your turbo uses this method for adjustment). You will need long needle nose pliers to grip the rod where you can see a small portion of the rod between the compressor and exhaust housing so the whole rod doesn't spin while unscrewing the nuts.

By adjusting the preload on the wastegate by tightening the nuts, you can keep seeing how much PSI it takes to open the wastegate to your liking.

The mechanic can take off the exhaust manifold or cat to get a lot more working room though. If you want, you can use VCDS to see when the N75 loop is engaged, which should stabilize the boost. If it is engaged and boost is still going crazy, the wastegate isn't opening fully because the spring load is way too tight.

Hope that turbo lasts though, give us an update in a few 1000 miles to see how it's doing!

In your opinion, what is a reasonable/good amount of psi range to open the wastegate? I've heard 5 or so, but just curious what you believe I should adjust it too.

Edit-OOps....it looks like someone else already answered this at 10psi or lower....my bad

[pichno]

hmm,
It sounds like a simple case of no pressure to wastegate actuator. line to or from n75 is off or split.

Hook up a NEW hose directly from turbo compressor port to wastegate actuator (same as Disconnect he N75 electrically if hoses are good) , then drive. What ever boost pressure you get now is wastegate cracking pressure. but of course your uncle with 18yrs at Porsche/Audi/VW tech Knows this allready.


Its really hard to tune a turbo that has too much pre load if it is that. 10psi or less will be fine.

And really, K04 software with stock injectors doesnt work. Even at 5 bar there is barely enough fuel at max RPM.
Leave the software in, get some larger injectors and dial down the fuel pressure. Skimping on not changing injectors is nonsense today with the low cost of injectors. Get some red devils 315cc on ebay and calculate what pressure you need to get the same flow as your stocks at 5 bar on one of the many online fuel injector flow calculators.

If its still overboosting when Wastegate cracking is at 10psi or less, check your maf, it may be under reporting and causing it to overboost

I have a feeling this is a stupid question, but how would I go about adjusting the proper fuel trim values if I installed the 315cc injectors? You mention online fuel injector flow calculators, I think I can simply google that and it wont be an issue, but my curiosity is more with how to measure/gauge/etc. the fuel pressure, not too mention "how to dial it down?" I know we've been using Vag-Com to measure values, but can you use it to raise/lower the values? If not, how do I do that? Another thing, all I'm searching for in terms of injectors is 315cc on Ebay or whatever? In doing so, there so many types, most if not all say it's for a different car....so would any injector work in my vehicle as long as it's 315cc? Would these work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-of-4-new...p2054897.l4275

Could you send me a link of something you're referring to in terms of 315cc injectors if these aren't what you recommend? I don't see many of these red ones on Ebay, however I could be searching incorrectly too.

Now, my uncle most likely knows many of these things, however it's nice going into it with knowledge as well without looking like a complete tool :)

Thanks again for taking the time to coach a rook.

[redline380]

I have a feeling this is a stupid question, but how would I go about adjusting the proper fuel trim values if I installed the 315cc injectors?

Unless you have Maestro, or some sort of bench flash setup, you wont be able to adjust fuel trims.

[pichno]

Unless you have Maestro, or some sort of bench flash setup, you wont be able to adjust fuel trims.

Hmmmm..so you're saying what he explained is not possible? As far as adjusting fuel if Purchased the 315cc injectors and kept the 5BAR?

[redline380]

Hmmmm..so you're saying what he explained is not possible? As far as adjusting fuel if Purchased the 315cc injectors and kept the 5BAR?

I'm saying unless you have an actual computer program that allows you to connect with the ecu and is capable of adjusting trims, you wont be able to adjust them.


You can crank up the FPR if you want, but that doesn't adjust trims, it only adds more fuel across the board

[Mad Cow]

Call/email speedtuning and ask them to adjust the tune for your new injectors, it's a 30 second job. Or do it properly and upgrade to a k04 tune.

[redline380]

Or do it properly and upgrade to a k04 tune.

This is the second time I've heard of issues with speedtuning's k04 software (it says in his first post he has k04 software). I am thinking there may be something wrong with the tune.

I had speedtuning on my k03 and it operated great

[Mad Cow]

This is the second time I've heard of issues with speedtuning's k04 software (it says in his first post he has k04 software). I am thinking there may be something wrong with the tune.

I had speedtuning on my k03 and it operated great

For some reason I thought OP said he has a k03 tune, must've misread. There's no excuse for writing a k04 tune for stock injectors, hell even the k03 has the potential to max them out. Either it's super conservative (might be a good idea with an ebay turbo), or it hasn't even been tested in a actual car because they'd find the fueling issue after the first pull. As ridiculous as it seems, there are tuners who sell tunes that they've never actually tested.

[pichno]

For some reason I thought OP said he has a k03 tune, must've misread. There's no excuse for writing a k04 tune for stock injectors, hell even the k03 has the potential to max them out. Either it's super conservative (might be a good idea with an ebay turbo), or it hasn't even been tested in a actual car because they'd find the fueling issue after the first pull. As ridiculous as it seems, there are tuners who sell tunes that they've never actually tested.

Well, GIAC also offers a K04 tune on stock injectors, so it's not just Speedtuning that I know of. According to GIAC, the gains from their k04 stock injector program at 20psi vs upgraded injectors on a non-wire like my 01 at 22psi is 5-15hp and 10-20tq I believe. Does $300 justify that small gain for nice 386cc injectors? Maybe there's other positives beyond that, however Speedtuning didn't have a larger injectors K04 program on hand, and I only paid $150 before shipping on it, so IMO is was a far better value vs a K04 injector program from someone else that can range 3-4 times that price at least with only minimal gain over the K04 program on stock injectors. That was/is my take on why I chose ST and the applicable file vs the injector one from someone else. Not to mention, I ran the ST K03 program for 5 yrs without issues.

From GIAC Website Non-Drive By Wire.....


X2T04
Required: K04 turbo, intercooler, exhaust, and 5 bar FPR. 60 - 80 HP 60 - 80 Ft/Lbs
X3FT04
Required: K04 turbo, intercooler, exhaust, and 31lb injectors. 65 - 95 HP 70 - 100 Ft/Lbs

[pichno]

Who else had issues with the Speedtuning K04 program? I've only heard of people running it on their K03 like I did originally, now that was great and no problems. That's why I don't see how the k04 software on a k03 didn't give me any issues whatsoever, but the second I install a Chinese turbo with the same software I all of a sudden have issues? I'd bet that my issues are related to the wastegate like others on here and members on other forums have said, it makes the most sense given that some of these people have been in a very similar situation with a stuck or misadjusted wastegate being the root cause. Just my .02...

[Jerstillman]

5 bar fpr is putting a good strain on your stock fuel pump.
#1 your wastegate actuator rod is (like everyone else said) misadjusted causing you to build lots of boost and the n75 is doing its normal thing trying to hold say 20 psi but mechanically the turbo is saying no I want 30. You need to relieve the preload on the wastegate and actually let it bleed off exhaust.
#2 by scaling the fuel pressure down and raising injector flow up you take less strain off your fuel pump. Look at it like putting a bigger diameter nozzle on the end of a hose. Less pressure but same flow. I have some brand new 315cc injectors that id sell you but you would need to tell your tuner that you are switching to 3bar fpr and 315cc flow.
Also, if you want to dabble in the 25psi range there are some good threads about maf scaling. You got a maf limit reached code which means you exceeded ~200g/s. By increasing the cross sectional area of the maf you can essentially increase fuel flow (injector size) or fuel pressure (for said given injector size) to accommodate for the extra "unmetered" air essentially increasing power. I would only recommend doing this if you #1 have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and #2 have a wideband 02 sensor+gauge so you know you arent harming your engine.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[rockersteady]

Like Jerstillman says, 5 bar is TOO much on a stock pump.
Everything you need to know is in my post. #16 http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post9548897

Dont go playing with the wastegate actuator pre load untill you know thats the problem. Ie test like I suggested.

0280155759, 0280155831, 0280150785 and BB302 315cc red devils from Comaro, corvette 32lb ford are all the same or similar. And run great at 4 bar. They are what I use in my stage 1 E85 tunes for AEB.

I cant find what the ATW injectors flow at right now but the injectors above- 315cc at 3 bar (factory FPR from any VAG car except AEB and ATW- plus AJL AGU And APU for the rest of world readers)
will flow just fine, the ecu will pull fuel as it needs to and store it in trims, anytime you reset trims youll run a little rich for a few miles till it re-learns- No biggie

Part throttle trims are applied across entire fuel map except idle. So open loop WOT will also be fine.

You dont need to (nor can you) adjust "trims" in the ecu using vag com or any flash tool.

If you want it tuned so the trims are Near zero then you dont need the fancy Bosch programming in your ecu,( thats one of its jobs) then you can get it re-programmed professionally. But in your case not nec. Just make sure there are o boost/vac leaks and your maf is in good health. Note what the new trims are (now the normal range) and monitor occasionally- if you go out from that then you can look for the reason the fuelling is away from your norm.

[pichno]

Like Jerstillman says, 5 bar is TOO much on a stock pump.
Everything you need to know is in my post. #16 http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post9548897

Dont go playing with the wastegate actuator pre load untill you know thats the problem. Ie test like I suggested.

0280155759, 0280155831, 0280150785 and BB302 315cc red devils from Comaro, corvette 32lb ford are all the same or similar. And run great at 4 bar. They are what I use in my stage 1 E85 tunes for AEB.

I cant find what the ATW injectors flow at right now but the injectors above- 315cc at 3 bar (factory FPR from any VAG car except AEB and ATW- plus AJL AGU And APU for the rest of world readers)
will flow just fine, the ecu will pull fuel as it needs to and store it in trims, anytime you reset trims youll run a little rich for a few miles till it re-learns- No biggie

Part throttle trims are applied across entire fuel map except idle. So open loop WOT will also be fine.

You dont need to (nor can you) adjust "trims" in the ecu using vag com or any flash tool.

If you want it tuned so the trims are Near zero then you dont need the fancy Bosch programming in your ecu,( thats one of its jobs) then you can get it re-programmed professionally. But in your case not nec. Just make sure there are o boost/vac leaks and your maf is in good health. Note what the new trims are (now the normal range) and monitor occasionally- if you go out from that then you can look for the reason the fuelling is away from your norm.

Holy balls! You know your shit....My MAF will be getting replaced on Friday since it's about 6-8 years old if I remember right, and because of the intermittent MAF trouble code I have right now. Not sure if the code is simply because it's boosting far too high at the moment, but either way it can't hurt to put a new one in. At the moment, I'm going to ride out the tune, turbo, and 5bar for the time being because I just dumped money into this setup. If I were to get a more efficient FP for the 5BAR, what type do you suggest? It does sound like the injectors you're referring to on my stock 4BAR would be the better option though......I'm going to test everything first definitely! Boost/Vac Leak among the function of the wastegate before it is messed with. Damn, didn't think bumping up to a K04 from K03 would be this time-consuming.....Shite!

[pichno]

Well, I checked out the wastegate finally. The initial shot of air into it took 15psi or so to crack, but after that, it opened at 5psi repeatedly. I'm ruling out the wastegate as being the culprit at this point I think. Since pushing some air into it however, the boost bleed is more prominent, especially in 3rd-5th. I drove the car after this however am still getting MAF exceeded codes, overboost, and shuddering that only occurs in 4th/5th at WOT. When this happened, the gauge ends up fluttering with intermittent loss of power, but again this only happens in 4th/5th at WOT after about 4K+. I'm still overboosting though at 25-30psi, although there's also times I can pull 1st/2nd gear at 25psi with great power, and 3rd/4th at 20-21psi like it should be, so whatever is going wrong is inconsistent at times too.

I ended up putting a new OEM MAF in after the first run, but on the second run VAG was still showing exceeded levels. I was going to install a boost sensor from a Jetta in my uncles shop, but the damn thing was on there good, so we said screw it. I'm not sure what else is going on here, none of these issues occurred on my K03 with this very same software and the stock 4BAR, no more than 20-21 PSI, no fluttering, and no MAF.

I did order a silicone TIP since my stock one is over 250K old, so maybe that's causing some overboost and other air mass issues? Possibly even the MAF readings. My mechanic things that if the TIP is collapsing (which could explain the shuddering/loss of power at only higher rpms in 4th/5th), the sensor would not be reading correct in/out air flow, it's very well possible that it can correlate with overboosting and incorrect air flow values IMO, and also according to some information I found on other forums with various individuals that had similar issues, but of course nothing is guaranteed. I just don't know where else to turn at this point. I could get a replacement turbo via warranty, but don't want to mess with that since it's that much more labor. Plus, since the wastegate is cracking at 5psi or so, hopefully that isn't the problem. When we install the new TIP, I'll put another N75 valve in there and re-check all the lines, most likely just replace them for piece of mind. I did replace the N75 only 2 years ago, and like I said there wasn't any issues with it while on this tune and my K03/4BAR only 3 weeks ago or so....

My tuner at ST pretty much said he thinks the issues I'm having with overboost, shudder, etc... would be caused by something else, so I'm out of luck there I think. So, TIP going in this week sometimes, will check/replace the N75 and applicable lines, and keep my fingers crossed as usual. If none of these things fix the issue, it's time to ship the turbo back and get a replacement, and if that doesn't work I have no other choice but to find a different tune. What a pain in the arse I tell ya....lol

[CBlockb5a4]

Well, I checked out the wastegate finally. The initial shot of air into it took 15psi or so to crack, but after that, it opened at 5psi repeatedly. I'm ruling out the wastegate as being the culprit at this point I think. Since pushing some air into it however, the boost bleed is more prominent, especially in 3rd-5th. I drove the car after this however am still getting MAF exceeded codes, overboost, and shuddering that only occurs in 4th/5th at WOT. When this happened, the gauge ends up fluttering with intermittent loss of power, but again this only happens in 4th/5th at WOT after about 4K+. I'm still overboosting though at 25-30psi, although there's also times I can pull 1st/2nd gear at 25psi with great power, and 3rd/4th at 20-21psi like it should be, so whatever is going wrong is inconsistent at times too.

I ended up putting a new OEM MAF in after the first run, but on the second run VAG was still showing exceeded levels. I was going to install a boost sensor from a Jetta in my uncles shop, but the damn thing was on there good, so we said screw it. I'm not sure what else is going on here, none of these issues occurred on my K03 with this very same software and the stock 4BAR, no more than 20-21 PSI, no fluttering, and no MAF.

I did order a silicone TIP since my stock one is over 250K old, so maybe that's causing some overboost and other air mass issues? Possibly even the MAF readings. My mechanic things that if the TIP is collapsing (which could explain the shuddering/loss of power at only higher rpms in 4th/5th), the sensor would not be reading correct in/out air flow, it's very well possible that it can correlate with overboosting and incorrect air flow values IMO, and also according to some information I found on other forums with various individuals that had similar issues, but of course nothing is guaranteed. I just don't know where else to turn at this point. I could get a replacement turbo via warranty, but don't want to mess with that since it's that much more labor. Plus, since the wastegate is cracking at 5psi or so, hopefully that isn't the problem. When we install the new TIP, I'll put another N75 valve in there and re-check all the lines, most likely just replace them for piece of mind. I did replace the N75 only 2 years ago, and like I said there wasn't any issues with it while on this tune and my K03/4BAR only 3 weeks ago or so....

My tuner at ST pretty much said he thinks the issues I'm having with overboost, shudder, etc... would be caused by something else, so I'm out of luck there I think. So, TIP going in this week sometimes, will check/replace the N75 and applicable lines, and keep my fingers crossed as usual. If none of these things fix the issue, it's time to ship the turbo back and get a replacement, and if that doesn't work I have no other choice but to find a different tune. What a pain in the arse I tell ya....lol

WASTEGATE SHOULD BE FULLY WIDE OPEN AT 6PSI. not just cracking open at 5psi.......ADJUST THE WASTEGATE.

[pichno]

WASTEGATE SHOULD BE FULLY WIDE OPEN AT 6PSI. not just cracking open at 5psi.......ADJUST THE WASTEGATE.

The wastegate is fully opening at 5psi. I'm fairly sure the word "crack" represents the same thing? I'm pretty sure other people use the word "crack" in reference as to when the wastegate opens. Why? Well, probably because they mean the same thing."Crack Pressure is a legitimate term that means at which point "in psi" the wasetgate opens. Why would anyone care at what psi level it takes for a wastegate to literally "Crack Open?" That isn't going to be useful since the wastegate needs to be fully open or fully closed for it to function properly. If for some reason I've been misunderstanding the repeated use of the word, so be it, but I'm pretty sure they mean the same thing.

And dude, seriously.....what's up with all the "caps?" If you can't be respectful when responding to someone, why bother? That is of course if your intention is what caps are supposed to represent (i.e. yelling).....if that wasn't your intention, well then understand that readers will most likely take it that way. Not too mention, just because you were unaware that "crack pressure" and "what psi is needed to open the wastegate" have similar meanings, it's laughable you'd respond in a "annoyed/upset" way. I have a tip for you, be up-to-date with terms and meanings before coming off like a jack-ass.

BTW,

Regardless if the wastegate opens at 5psi or 6psi, it doesn't really make a difference, especially in determining whether the wastegate is functioning as it should. Heck, it's well known that if it's opening at anywhere between 4-6psi there isn't much to worry about. If you don't believe it, look around and you'll see the same information posted elsewhere.

[Avant Nate]

It may be me, but I didn't think you could just swap fpr's like that. If your fuel trims weren't massively correcting across the board, it makes me think that your tune is for a 4bar, not five. What are your STFT's after your ecu is reset? If it's like -20, than its probably 4 bar.

[pichno]

It may be me, but I didn't think you could just swap fpr's like that. If your fuel trims weren't massively correcting across the board, it makes me think that your tune is for a 4bar, not five. What are your STFT's after your ecu is reset? If it's like -20, than its probably 4 bar.

ST (Oliver) said the tune was designed for a K04 with a 5BAR (similar to the GIAC version). He said to try running it on the K03 with the stock 4BAR and see how the values read. Oliver said even though the tune was written for the 4BAR, the K03 (pushing less flow) than the K04 and should be ok, which it was according to trim levels. At first, I was doubtful that would work, however Oliver's reasoning did make sense seeing as it's all about fuel/air ratios, and of course the air flow/psi capability of the two turbos are different. My current fuel trims show while running WOT is lean, however with everything going on, the overboost and MAF readings being exceeded due to the overboost would surely cause the lean issues. However, while running 1/2 or so the values are acceptable within the -10/+10 range. With all the inconsistencies going on, I'll run my values again upon the install of the TIP, and post the results then.

Although ST specifically told me the tune was written for a 5BAR, lets say it was somehow a 4BAR even though I've never heard of a K04 program with a 4BAR, wouldn't I be running rich then with a 5BAR? Like I said, during WOT she's running lean at the moment. If the TIP is collapsing and the air read by the sensor in/out isn't what it should be, then it would make sense that the proper air flow isn't being met, possibly resulting in overboost and air flow related errors because of it. My mechanic explained in more detail his theory on this, so my hopes is that he's correct and the new silicone TIP will solve some of these issues, has to be better than my 250K+ mile OEM TIP. With my shuddering and intermittent power loss only happening in 4th/5th gears at WOT and in the upper RPM's, this is where an old/weak TIP would struggle the most IMO.

[rockersteady]

Take out the tuned ecu, put the stock ecu back in, put the 4 bar FPR back in and clear codes. go for a drive and report back the results of the boost pressure
3rd gear to redline from 1500 rpm. how much boost ? video it is a good way.
2000=
2500=
3000=
4000=
5000=

now disconnect the N75 electrically and do the same test above please
2000=
2500=
3000=
4000=
5000=

now put a brand new hose in place of the n75. from turbo directly to wastegate actuator and
2000=
2500=
3000=
4000=
5000=

thanks in advance

[pichno]

Take out the tuned ecu, put the stock ecu back in, put the 4 bar FPR back in and clear codes. go for a drive and report back the results of the boost pressure
3rd gear to redline from 1500 rpm. how much boost ? video it is a good way.
2000=
2500=
3000=
4000=
5000=

now disconnect the N75 electrically and do the same test above please
2000=
2500=
3000=
4000=
5000=

now put a brand new hose in place of the n75. from turbo directly to wastegate actuator and
2000=
2500=
3000=
4000=
5000=

thanks in advance

I am wondering though....if the tune was somehow written for a 4BAR, wouldn't I be running rich right now with my 5BAR? I'm definitely running lean at WOT like previously stated though. The thing is, my mechanic is the one that typically is running the Vag-Com while I drive the car, but I can certainly have him document my results during our next run. Otherwise, once we install the 4BAR back in, I can do everything myself at that point.

Edit-I only have one ECU, it's simply flashed with the one setting. I don't have various settings like some companies offer, so that's out of the question.

[rockersteady]

Id forget the fuel pressure for now, its the least of your worries.
if you dont have a stock ecu then we cant rule out if its actually the tune causing the overboost.
you can do stage 2 and 3 of the tests above though, it will help get to the bottom of this.



and NO you cant supply enough fuel at high rpm for a K04 with 4bar and stock injectors. You can barely supply enough fuel with 5 bar.
The only problem is at high rpm. When the airflow is at its greatest your putting in 160-180 grams air per second and there needs to be 1/12 that amount (mass) of fuel. It barely covers it. so if you have a drama with fuel supply later (blocked filter, dying pump etc) then you can go lean (up to AFR of about 13.5- 14.7:1) which theoretically advances timing (if its already aggressively timed for an AFR of 11- 12:1), and you knock a little and a hot spot develops and then you pre ignite then you buy new pistons and a block.

[Scientist]

Who else had issues with the Speedtuning K04 program? I've only heard of people running it on their K03 like I did originally, now that was great and no problems. That's why I don't see how the k04 software on a k03 didn't give me any issues whatsoever, but the second I install a Chinese turbo with the same software I all of a sudden have issues? I'd bet that my issues are related to the wastegate like others on here and members on other forums have said, it makes the most sense given that some of these people have been in a very similar situation with a stuck or misadjusted wastegate being the root cause. Just my .02...

I have a Speedtuning Stage 1 for a KO4 and stock injectors and the difference was substantial. Very happy with it since that was what I was looking for my DD.

The problem you are facing is a wastegate issue. It is closing too soon.

[pichno]

The wastegate is fully opening at 5psi each time according to the testing my mechanic and I conducted last weekend, so I don't think it's the wastegate causing problems at this point. If the wastegate was closing too soon, how would you test for that? I thought the pressure needed to "open the wastegate" is what should be analyzed?

The more I think about it, if it was the WG closing too soon, what it's the root cause? Wouldn't there be something else causing that? TIP not allowing the proper airflow through to the sensor, thus creating issues with things such as the MAF etc? I'm not ruling anything out at this point, but always thought if the WG opened at 5psi then it's all good? Am I missing something?

[pichno]

I have a Speedtuning Stage 1 for a KO4 and stock injectors and the difference was substantial. Very happy with it since that was what I was looking for my DD.

The problem you are facing is a wastegate issue. It is closing too soon.

Double Post