Any guesses as to what percentage of S4's are manual transmission?

[Notfast]

From my attempts to buy one (mainly used), I'm guessing that few B8 S4's have MT. I live in the Chicago area, and I think there are 2 new and maybe 3 used cars right now. The used cars are all higher mileage, and I'm pretty sure the new ones in my market don't come with Sport Diff.

A little sad, eh?

[IanCH]

From my attempts to buy one (mainly used), I'm guessing that few B8 S4's have MT. I live in the Chicago area, and I think there are 2 new and maybe 3 used cars right now. The used cars are all higher mileage, and I'm pretty sure the new ones in my market don't come with Sport Diff.

A little sad, eh?

On here it seems to be about 50/50 or 60/40 in favor of the DSG, but in the overall market there are definitely much less manuals, under 20%

[drob23]

I would guess somewhere in the 5-15% range. This forum is probably 40%

[dropshadow]

50% of my B8 S4s have been MT.

[jpbadonk]

A quick search on cars.com shows that about 100 MT are for sale versus 300 DSG when looking nationwide.

[ejohnson]

A quick search on cars.com shows that about 100 MT are for sale versus 300 DSG when looking nationwide.

Selection bias - the 6MT owners love their cars so much they never want to sell

[jlaudio]

Selection bias - the 6MT owners love their cars so much they never want to sell

Thats correct.

@OP when i found my S4 i knew i had to jump on it quick, 4 others were there looking at the car the same time i was. '10, 6mt, sport diff.
very in demand car

[AudiS4TW]

I had to wait a while before my preferred dealership had a model with a manual transmission. We're definitely in the minority and for a reason -- Audi wants to stop offering MT models. The more stick shift drivers are turned away, the more likely they reconsider the DSG tranny. The more DSG models they sell and "converts" they make, the less reason to keep supporting MT. They will cite the "low demand" as justification for it. It's a conspiracy.


Sent from my iPhone

[Daily Driver]

I had to wait a while before my preferred dealership had a model with a manual transmission. We're definitely in the minority and for a reason -- Audi wants to stop offering MT models. The more stick shift drivers are turned away, the more likely they reconsider the DSG tranny. The more DSG models they sell and "converts" they make, the less reason to keep supporting MT. They will cite the "low demand" as justification for it. It's a conspiracy.


Sent from my iPhone

Yes. I still think they may offer the MT in the B9, but the main reason I put in order in for a '14, knowing a new model is coming out, was so I could be sure I had a manual with everything else I wanted.

[raudiace4]

60% of the time it works every time.

[drob23]

I had to wait a while before my preferred dealership had a model with a manual transmission. We're definitely in the minority and for a reason -- Audi wants to stop offering MT models. The more stick shift drivers are turned away, the more likely they reconsider the DSG tranny. The more DSG models they sell and "converts" they make, the less reason to keep supporting MT. They will cite the "low demand" as justification for it. It's a conspiracy.


Sent from my iPhone

Check out this video around 18:00, straight from horse's mouth (get's painful around 19:40)

[ejohnson]

Check out this video around 18:00, straight from horse's mouth (get's painful around 19:40)

He mentions (around 20:45) that their cars with DSG, when in manual mode, will NOT shift at the rev limiter. Assuming this is only true for cars out of Neckarsulm, as I know it is not the case with the S4.

[Daily Driver]

I just don't like paddle shifters. I have them on my C5 S6 and it's just not the same. Sounds as if in the next decade I'll just have to convert, though :(

[b6onboost]

A consipracy...to what end? A good conspiracy therory has to have a reason. If not due to demand and profitability...why does Audi want to stop offering MT models?

We're definitely in the minority and for a reason -- Audi wants to stop offering MT models. The more stick shift drivers are turned away, the more likely they reconsider the DSG tranny. The more DSG models they sell and "converts" they make, the less reason to keep supporting MT. They will cite the "low demand" as justification for it. It's a conspiracy.

[Daily Driver]

A consipracy...to what end? A good conspiracy therory has to have a reason. If not due to demand and profitability...why does Audi want to stop offering MT models?

It IS due to profitability. It takes a lot of money to get model approval for U.S. spec. Audi has to get each model approved in BOTH auto and manual if they choose to offer manual.

[Dannydyn]

On the east coast (greater NYC metro area), I've always been told it's about 15%-20% manuals.

[drob23]

He mentions (around 20:45) that their cars with DSG, when in manual mode, will NOT shift at the rev limiter. Assuming this is only true for cars out of Neckarsulm, as I know it is not the case with the S4.

It would be cool if GIAC, APR (or whomever else making a DSG flash) could override the auto up-shift. I think this would get them *a lot* more business. The RS models + R8 with DSG do not autoshift.

[b6onboost]

So its a conspiracy to adjust your supply to meet demand or to make model offering choices based on profitability?

It IS due to profitability. It takes a lot of money to get model approval for U.S. spec. Audi has to get each model approved in BOTH auto and manual if they choose to offer manual.

[Daily Driver]

So its a conspiracy to adjust your supply to meet demand or to make model offering choices based on profitability?

Well, it wasn't I who called it a conspiracy, but I think Audi believes that the last of the manual hold-outs will eventually learn to like DSG when manuals are no longer an option. If no manual option, no forking out $$$$ for US approval of manual models. DSG models are also greener when it comes to MPG, and that will only improve.

Personally, I just feel more connected to the car when I'm driving a manual. I actually grew up on automatics and learned to drive manuals later.... I really don't want to go back :P I put up with it in my C5 S6 because.... 4.2 V8.

[sacandagaD]

On the east coast (greater NYC metro area), I've always been told it's about 15%-20% manuals.

It took me several months to find my car and during the search I'd have to agree with that percentage that were manuals, even though I had decided I wanted a DSG for a change.

[MrFunk]

I just don't get the same enjoyment driving a flappy paddle transmission vs manual. Just about every single auto reviewer will say the same thing. Yeah on paper a dual clutch is faster - but how often is anyone pushing these cars to those limits where .2 seconds is going to make any difference or even be noticeable? Who would buy a TTRS in an Automatic?! I'd rather buy a freaking Miata in a 6MT than a TTRS in an auto.

[david55838]

So sad! Grab your manuals while you can!

[b6onboost]

I guess the conspiracy is that Audi will cite 'low demand' as a reason to discontinue manuals when the real reason is profit.

I think that's garbage because the fact is manual demand is lower and falling, specifically because automatics and automated manuals have improved and provided strong alternatives. You can still order the car with a manual, so if buyers truely demand it that's what they'll do. If someone doesn't want to wait and buys a DSG off the lot instead...well that says something about the true demand for a manual.

[sacandagaD]

I love manual transmissions in sports type cars, but I finally decided I was done stirring the gear box constantly in traffic and today's high performance automatics do a good job of shifting quick enough for me. More power to you guys, but I'd say the manual is definitely an endangered species.

[TSXCman]

Calgary Audi dealership told me 5%

[westwest888]

5%

[AKPS4]

wow, I am glad the 6MT's are so rare and even better that I have a 2012 which has the least issues of the B8's. Best combo if you ask me.

[Infra]

Manuals will be gone in 10-20 years. Younger buyers who never drove a manual growing up won't care to have one. Double clutch is better in every measurable way. It's nostalgia holding on and clamoring for manuals. That's not enough for a business case, though.

[Audizona]

Manual trans is the best, you actually get the feel of driving your car IMO. Back when I bought my 93' 525i BMW wagon, first thing I did was manual swap since it was never an option in the states. So when I bought my S4, it had to be manual. No sports diff unfortunately. Cant have everything I guess

[priceprince]

It took a little while to find my car with a manual and SD when I was searching on autotrader, and it sure seems like 90% or so that I saw when I looked were DSG. Sure it may not shift as quickly as the DSG, but it still brings a smile to my face every day I row my own gears. I know I'll be one of the sad ones years from now when manual transmissions are gone.

[achilleas101]

I guess the conspiracy is that Audi will cite 'low demand' as a reason to discontinue manuals when the real reason is profit.

I think that's garbage because the fact is manual demand is lower and falling, specifically because automatics and automated manuals have improved and provided strong alternatives. You can still order the car with a manual, so if buyers truely demand it that's what they'll do. If someone doesn't want to wait and buys a DSG off the lot instead...well that says something about the true demand for a manual.

but you're putting a much higher hurdle for people to buy a manual. one of the tenets of car sales is to not let you get off the lot, make you buy a car while you're there. and to the other side, most people don't want to wait 2+ months for a car, they want a new car right then and there if they can get it. maybe a week later if it's a matter of negotiation.

so if somebody wants a manual but can't drive one or buy one because it's not on the lot, they're much less likely to put an order in, unless they feel strongly about the manual. If everything was equal though, you'd definitely have more manuals being sold how many? hard to say. But in any case, the "demand" is most definitely being forced down.

[superswiss]

He mentions (around 20:45) that their cars with DSG, when in manual mode, will NOT shift at the rev limiter. Assuming this is only true for cars out of Neckarsulm, as I know it is not the case with the S4.

Yes, the DSGs in RS and R cars are different animals. They are much faster and more viscous in sport mode and feel like a manual transmission when shifted manually. You can indeed bounce off the rev limiter all day long. Quattro Gmbh tunes the transmission for performance while Audi AG tunes them for everyday driving and comfort even in S cars. Even the slushbox in the RS7 is miles better than anything you get in a standard Audi. That's just how it's gonna be. I'm a recent DSG convert and one of the main reasons I went RS is because of the transmission. I regularly go for a drive on empty back roads taking the car to its limits and the DSG makes this just so much more fun.

I still predict that the US won't see a B9 6MT. Just look at the new A3 sedan. It's a first on two fronts. The A3 sedan is squarely targeted at the US market and is a volume car and they couldn't make the numbers work, so DSG only for the US. The other first is that this marks the first A-series car where Audi is not substituting the DSG for the Tip on US trims. Case in point, the current US trim A6 doesn't get the standard DSG, instead Audi puts in the Tip for the US market. With the A3 now coming as a sedan, I predict that the US will get an S3 6MT to satisfy the diehards, but above that it's gonna be DSG only or 8-spd Auto for cars with more torque than the DSG can handle.

[Tweakophyte]

80% of all statistics are made up.

[boss2k]

I'd say there are more manual S4's than BMW 335 , when i was checking for a 335 MT none of the BMW dealers had it and i was shocked that how can i test drive one until i found a CPO wheras when i went to buy S4 2 Audi dealers had MT's in their stock which was very encouraging

[b6onboost]

Just because Audi dealers stock fewer manuals does not affect what consumers demand. If you want a manual, you want a manual. However the availability, effort to search, waiting period for an order, and availability of substitutes (DSG S4 or 335i Manual) will affect the overall decision. Consumers make tradeoffs.

The lack of available manuals isn't a conspiracy. That hurdle you mention is only there because dealers must make decisions based on how many they believe they can sell (demand). For the same reason every other S4 on the lot is black, as opposed to Imola Yellow. If you want something like a manual, or a unique color, that isn't in high demand it is usually harder to get.

but you're putting a much higher hurdle for people to buy a manual. one of the tenets of car sales is to not let you get off the lot, make you buy a car while you're there. and to the other side, most people don't want to wait 2+ months for a car, they want a new car right then and there if they can get it. maybe a week later if it's a matter of negotiation. so if somebody wants a manual but can't drive one or buy one because it's not on the lot, they're much less likely to put an order in, unless they feel strongly about the manual. If everything was equal though, you'd definitely have more manuals being sold how many? hard to say. But in any case, the "demand" is most definitely being forced down.

[1flossedS4]

I wanted DSG. It's a great trans.