koni yellow shocks + stock springs experience?

[audi49]

(Have searched but haven't found much direct experience...)
I'm likely to replace my control arms soon... debating whether to 'upgrade' to koni yellow sport shocks while i'm at it. But i don't want to lower the ride height.
For those that have stock springs and koni yellow shocks on B6/B7 S4's... what is you experience... for handling?, for ride comfort? compared to stock. And what setting are you running with on the shocks?
Thanks in advance.

[Slow4]

I just received my set of koni yellows but I plan on pairing them with H/R Sport Springs. Of the two people I individually asked, they suggested I run with 3/4 to a full turn from factory; factory is at softest setting.

Other than that, I have no input real input.

[TexS4]

I have Bilstein's scheduled to be delivered to my house today and will have them installed on stock springs tomorrow or Friday. Its not KONI's but hopefully I can give you some input.

[daneo]

I'm interested in both konis and bilsteins on stock shocks. Trying to decide but leaning towards bilsteins at the moment.

Looking forward to hearing back from Tex.


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[blaelock]

I'm interested in both konis and bilsteins on stock shocks. Trying to decide but leaning towards bilsteins at the moment.

I think you mean stock springs, right? I'm intending to do the same thing myself. I've previously used Bilstein dampers on numerous other vehicles and I think they're great so I'll be purchaing a set for my S4 along with new top mounts and whatnot soon. I just recently had the 034MS density line control arms installed as well and they are spectacular but I want the whole thing refreshed.

[luvsspeed]

I would like to know the same thing.

[daneo]

I think you mean stock springs, right? I'm intending to do the same thing myself. I've previously used Bilstein dampers on numerous other vehicles and I think they're great so I'll be purchaing a set for my S4 along with new top mounts and whatnot soon. I just recently had the 034MS density line control arms installed as well and they are spectacular but I want the whole thing refreshed.

Yep. Meant springs.

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[Mike@PureMS]

We do KONI's on stock springs quite often. They're a fantastic upgrade over worn stock shocks. Handling is improved, and the ride comfort is better than worn stock shocks.
We generally set the damping to 1/2 turn to 1 full turn from their softest setting.

Use our 10% off coupon during the month of Feb and save 10% off your order as well!

[Kookie]

I've been on them for a year. If it were me, and I had the option to purchase new (these came on my car) I'd honestly save up a little extra and do the KW V3's.. this way you can raise the vehicle, but get full adjust-ability.

They're a bit bouncy, and I can imagine they'll only get more bouncy with stock springs..

[S4Bennett]

Bouncy as in under dampened?

[LJH]

I've been on them for a year. If it were me, and I had the option to purchase new (these came on my car) I'd honestly save up a little extra and do the KW V3's.. this way you can raise the vehicle, but get full adjust-ability.

They're a bit bouncy, and I can imagine they'll only get more bouncy with stock springs..

I am guessing you are not on OEM springs? If so you really cannot compare as your dampening needs change with spring rates.

I personally do not like the H&R spring/Koni set up in the slightest but I have used Koni's with stock Audi springs nurerious times and have been VERY pleased.

Cheers,
Jim

[blaelock]

I have run a combination of H&R race springs and Bilstein dampers on a previous vehicle of mine and I wasn't too crazy about the H&R sprains. I actually swapped them out for the Eibach Pro-Kit and it was a world of difference. The ride height wasn't quite as low, but the suspension did a much better job of soaking up road imperfections.

[LJH]

I have run a combination of H&R race springs and Bilstein dampers on a previous vehicle of mine and I wasn't too crazy about the H&R sprains. I actually swapped them out for the Eibach Pro-Kit and it was a world of difference. The ride height wasn't quite as low, but the suspension did a much better job of soaking up road imperfections.

Did you run the V6 spec Eibach springs?

Cheers,
Jim

[Slow4]

Did you run the V6 spec Eibach springs?

Cheers,
Jim

x2; i couldn't find any eibach pros for the B6/B7 S models during my search.

[TexS4]

My Bilsteins came in :) They are going on the car tomorrow.


s4 bilsteins by Mark Popovac, on Flickr

I'll be happy to report back on overall ride quality. I'm expecting a descent improvement over the stock shocks that currently sit at 105k miles.

[blaelock]

Did you run the V6 spec Eibach springs?

Cheers,
Jim

x2; i couldn't find any eibach pros for the B6/B7 S models during my search.

Please refer to my original post. I was making a general comment on the ride quality of H&R vs. Eibach. The previous vehicle I was referring to was not a B6/B7.

I have run a combination of H&R race springs and Bilstein dampers on a previous vehicle of mine and I wasn't too crazy about the H&R sprains. I actually swapped them out for the Eibach Pro-Kit and it was a world of difference. The ride height wasn't quite as low, but the suspension did a much better job of soaking up road imperfections.

[audi49]

My Bilsteins came in :) They are going on the car tomorrow.

I'll be happy to report back on overall ride quality. I'm expecting a descent improvement over the stock shocks that currently sit at 105k miles.

So curious TexS4... how did it turn out? Thanks.

[silverTL6]

(Have searched but haven't found much direct experience...)
I'm likely to replace my control arms soon... debating whether to 'upgrade' to koni yellow sport shocks while i'm at it. But i don't want to lower the ride height.
For those that have stock springs and koni yellow shocks on B6/B7 S4's... what is you experience... for handling?, for ride comfort? compared to stock. And what setting are you running with on the shocks?
Thanks in advance.

I have this exact combo...Koni yellow's on stock springs. Ride height and handling seems about the same as stock, but ride comfort is waaay better (on the softest setting at least). Dunno if it's because my stock shocks were worn (I only have 60k) or just too stiff for my taste, but I just didn't like how it was so bouncy and rough over uneven pavement. The B8 S4's I've driven felt smoother and way more composed, so I couldn't understand why it was so different for the B6/B7 S4. For the RS4 it makes total sense, but not for a car that's supposed to be semi-luxurious.

[daneo]

How do the konis do compare to a b8 s4?


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[TexS4]

So curious TexS4... how did it turn out? Thanks.

Turned out great! The entire ride is now much stiffer vs. my worn out stock shocks. I currently have 105,5xx miles on the car. I'll break down my experience based on Highway driving, City driving and what I call urban driving (speed bumps in neighborhoods, constant stop n go, etc).

Highway Driving: Most noticeable difference was over bridges and overpasses where the car would hit the sections of the bridge that connect each other. Before the bilstein's the car had a tendency to get into a rhythm over those sections in which you could feel the body of the car just sorta floating up and down as it hit those sections of the bridge and not really settle until off the bridge(s). Now with bilstein's and stock springs its a tight rebound and no longer does that floating feeling. <<< sorry if the word floating is throwing you off.

City Driving: Definitely an improvement. Here in Austin, TX the right lanes on our roads in the city are rather harsh due to our Metro bus's (Lamar Blvd is a good example). I purposely drove in those lanes today to see how well the car would take bumps and dips as with the old worn out suspension it would have a tendency to bounce a bit after each dip in the road and uneven surfaces you would feel all the way through the steering wheel. Its certainly stiffened up things and makes the city roads feel at lot less harsh. A few known spots where we would normally prepare for the bump felt like the road was fixed :)

Urban driving: Speed humps are everywhere in Austin's suburbs as well as the residential streets inside the city. I have two sets of road humps on my street for example. These are the ones that are intended to slow folks down if you're not familiar with them. You can really tell going over those road humps that the shocks are doing their job. Most noticeable was in the rear of our Avant; you can really feel the ass of the car plant as it comes off the road hump, as well it didn't feel as harsh when the rear of the car would go over the bumps.

Furthermore, I did a few stop light launches in S mode today (car is TIP) where it was safe to do so, and IMHO the car does feel like its planting itself better with the rear and not sinking as much due to better shocks. I had a chance to inspect the springs before the new struts and shocks were installed. Everything looked good, and while they were off the stock struts, I wiped them down and put a coat of Sealant on them (I'm a detail freak OK!). Control arms also still looked good as they were replaced two years ago; just wanted to point that out. I did find a torn CV boot so we went ahead and replaced that too.

Overall compared to the worn out shocks and struts, it was a very significant improvement. Car feels much stiffer but yet still very comfortable to drive. FWIW, the car sits maybe 1/4 of an inch lower than it did on the stock shocks and struts. Its nearly impossible to see just looking at the car but the Bilstein is shorter by about 3/4 of an inch. IMHO if you're not looking to lower your car but want to add a bit of sport feel to the suspension, you can't go wrong using Bilstein's or Koni's with your stock springs. Even if you're just replacing worn out shocks, you'll be very satisfied by putting high quality shocks in their place.

Hope this helps. If I need to clarify anything, I'll be happy to reply.

[JayDog747]

The B8 is a totally different car from the b7. It has a six inch longer wheel base and at least two inch wider track. It has larger dimensions than my 03 A6 2.7t.

Having said that, I just returned from a trip to Chicago after installing Bilsteins on stock springs. I found the stock shocks to be harsh and jarring at times. Understandable for what Audi was looking for. The Bilsteins are a compromise between comfort and sport. With a slight edge towards comfort. They handle pot holes well.(phuc you I-39 south of Rockford) I hit a washboard section of road on I-88. It was more of a rollie bouncy ride compared to a stock bouncy ride where your head hits the steering wheel and head rest. The Bilsteins are bouncy. They don't suck the car back down to the road the way the stock shocks do. I installed them without the jounce bumpers at first. It didn't feel like I was driving on rails. A little too much front end push when making high speed lane change. Once I installed them the car felt much tighter. I replaced all the shock mounts. Do not use the Febi-bilstein front shock mounts that come in the kits. The rubber is already splitting. I'll be replacing these in the spring. At the same time, I replaced the control arms with 034's and Lemforder's outer and inner tie rod. BIG difference with the steering. I highly recommend replacing both the inner and outer tie rod. It's still early to tell about the shocks but, if you're able to dial in stiffness,giggity, well...

[audi49]

Thanks for the your feedback. Interesting to hear that things are firmer and more tightened up but at the same time more comfortable and less harsh over bumps and rough road. Thanks also to silvertl6 for his koni feedback.

[daneo]

Big thanks for the feedback! Did you guys notice any difference in road noise?


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[JayDog747]

[QUOTE=daneo;9501317]Big thanks for the feedback! Did you guys notice any difference in road noise?


No

[silverTL6]

FWIW...I considered Bilstein's too, but they were $100-200 more and non-adjustable to boot. The thought lingered in my head - what if they were stiffer or softer than I expected? At least with the Koni's I'd have different settings to choose from. Since comfort was #1 priority I went straight for the softest setting, so can't really speak for the others. But given that it matches or exceeds the stock shock's handling at that setting, I can only imagine the stiffer settings improving handling even more.

One caveat: although they are adjustable, the Koni's (or the wheels, I forget) apparently need to be removed to make adjustments. I thought the adjustment nut would be exposed on the strut towers in the engine bay, but I guess not.

[JayDog747]

Yes, you have to remove both the wheels and shocks to adjust the Koni's. Not to mention, the shock has to be removed from the spring and compressed in order to adjust it. I picked up a Bend-Pak scissor lift and can have the car up and strut towers out in 15 minutes.

[sea_shackF1]

The B8 S4's I've driven felt smoother and way more composed, so I couldn't understand why it was so different for the B6/B7 S4. For the RS4 it makes total sense, but not for a car that's supposed to be semi-luxurious.

The B8 is meant to compare to the 335i where the B6 was competing with the E46 M3. If you look in the B8 S4 section there are many, many former 335, G35, etc owners now in S4 and seemingly not many came from the M3. The RS4 and M3 are to stiff or sporty for what they are looking for. There was no RS4 when the B6 S4 for came out so they couldn't soften it up too much or it wouldn't even be in the same ballpark. Audi is no doubt softening the edges on the S models and to a lesser extent the RS's to appeal to different buyers. It's selling tons more cars, but I personally think it's hurting the S/RS brand. I wish they would just offer sport suspension option on A's like BMW does for 335's and leave the S/RS for those whose prioritize performance over comfort. ..... end rant.

I have no personal experience with Koni/Bilisteins on S4, but everything I have read (from owners and vendors) is the Koni's are more compliant on rougher roads than the Bilsteins. Both are great and perform better than stock. The Bilsteins are 'stiffer' and have a harsher ride. Where Koni's are adjustable so you adjust how harsh you want the ride to be but still get a better ride than stock. I have no need for anymore 'comfort' in my ride. Overall I like the ride of stock, not too stiff or soft, but if I do replace my shocks I'll be going with the Koni's and adjust them with a bias toward stiff.

[silverTL6]

The B8 is meant to compare to the 335i where the B6 was competing with the E46 M3. If you look in the B8 S4 section there are many, many former 335, G35, etc owners now in S4 and seemingly not many came from the M3. The RS4 and M3 are to stiff or sporty for what they are looking for. There was no RS4 when the B6 S4 for came out so they couldn't soften it up too much or it wouldn't even be in the same ballpark. Audi is no doubt softening the edges on the S models and to a lesser extent the RS's to appeal to different buyers. It's selling tons more cars, but I personally think it's hurting the S/RS brand. I wish they would just offer sport suspension option on A's like BMW does for 335's and leave the S/RS for those whose prioritize performance over comfort. ..... end rant.

Yeah it makes sense why they toned down the B8....but why not the B7 S4 since there was a B7 RS4? IIRC the B7 is even stiffer than the B6 which is strange. Even the B5 S4 was softer, though they did have an RS4 for that gen but it wasn't offered in the US.

And aren't there sport packages for the A4 now, in addition to the S-line and Ultrasport packages for the B6-B8's?

[sea_shackF1]

Yeah it makes sense why they toned down the B8....but why not the B7 S4 since there was a B7 RS4? IIRC the B7 is even stiffer than the B6 which is strange. Even the B5 S4 was softer, though they did have an RS4 for that gen but it wasn't offered in the US.

I've never heard that the B7 was stiffer. As far as I know they have the exact same suspension. The B7 RS4 was stiffer so there was no reason to soften up or change the B7 S4, especially since all the R&D costs were already paid for from the B6. The B8 was a completely new model so they were starting from scratch.

And aren't there sport packages for the A4 now, in addition to the S-line and Ultrasport packages for the B6-B8's?

Yeah, I just wish they kept those cars as the compromise between comfort and performance and kept S/RS as performance first and foremost then comfort. Audi is selling a TON of S's these days and if that was their goal it has worked. In my eyes it's hurt the S brand's reputation though.

[Slow4]

Awesome reviews Silver and Tex; good info to know.

[05andahalfs4]

Glad I found this thread. Thanks guys. I'm in this same boat, I think I'll go with the Bilstein at this point in time. I know Koni are great but having to take the strut off to adjust? I really liked the stock ride it was stiff but dampened pretty good. My goal is not to give up the quick reacting sharp feeling, I don't want anything that rides softer but I don't want anything significantly more stiff. Stock springs of course.


Do Bilstein require dust boots?

[sea_shackF1]

I really liked the stock ride it was stiff but dampened pretty good. My goal is not to give up the quick reacting sharp feeling, I don't want anything that rides softer but I don't want anything significantly more stiff. Stock springs of course.

From my understanding the Koni is more of what you are looking for. The Koni is only 'softer' or 'stiffer' if you set it that way. And you only have to remove them if you want to readjust. If the Bilstein turns out to be stiffer than you like you're stuck. Search and I'm sure you can find out how to adjust the Koni to your liking the first time.

[audi49]

I emailed Koni directly and the response i got was that they recommend leaving the Koni's at their 'out of the box' settings of softest when using with stock springs. My request was that i wanted equal to or better handling and some improvements in ride (less wobble on larger udulations, less harshness on smaller road imperfections).

[blaelock]

From my understanding the Koni is more of what you are looking for. The Koni is only 'softer' or 'stiffer' if you set it that way. And you only have to remove them if you want to readjust. If the Bilstein turns out to be stiffer than you like you're stuck. Search and I'm sure you can find out how to adjust the Koni to your liking the first time.

Bilstein dampers (including the sport units in question) feature patented valve technology that continuously self adjusts to changing road conditions. Whether you're driving over a washboard surface or cornering at high speed on a freshly paved road, the valving in the gas pressure, monotube Bilstein dampers adjusts to the given input to ensure the best suspension performance possible.

[sea_shackF1]

Bilstein dampers (including the sport units in question) feature patented valve technology that continuously self adjusts to changing road conditions. Whether you're driving over a washboard surface or cornering at high speed on a freshly paved road, the valving in the gas pressure, monotube Bilstein dampers adjusts to the given input to ensure the best suspension performance possible.

Don't get me wrong, they both are great products. I just heard, from several that have knowledge of both, that on rougher roads the Koni's will have a more compliant ride with nothing given up in performance. Where as the Bilsteins ride is harsher over bumpy roads. I live in an area with roads that can be very bad (like right now) so that would matter to me. Again the difference is probably minimal and you really can't go wrong either way.

[05andahalfs4]

From my understanding the Koni is more of what you are looking for. The Koni is only 'softer' or 'stiffer' if you set it that way. And you only have to remove them if you want to readjust. If the Bilstein turns out to be stiffer than you like you're stuck. Search and I'm sure you can find out how to adjust the Koni to your liking the first time.

One thing that worries me is for the car to be less bouncy over undulating surfaces I reckon it needs to be a combination of stiffer and quicker rebounding.

[daneo]

To be the "least bouncy" you'd want to be critically damped. Though for similar performance, you could back the damping off to about 65% of critical damping and still have a similar time to "settling" the car compared to critical damping.


I imagine Bilstien and Koni design something to this effect. I would think it's with stock springs. Maybe stock springs is Koni's "softest" setting, and you can crank it up for higher spring rates?

[blaelock]

Don't get me wrong, they both are great products. I just heard, from several that have knowledge of both, that on rougher roads the Koni's will have a more compliant ride with nothing given up in performance. Where as the Bilsteins ride is harsher over bumpy roads. I live in an area with roads that can be very bad (like right now) so that would matter to me. Again the difference is probably minimal and you really can't go wrong either way.

I wasn't trying to be adversarial, I simply noticed no one had shared the information regarding Bilstein claiming their dampers to be self adjusting so I thought I would enlighten everyone. I'm in agreement with you that either choice is a great option. I previously ran Bilstein dampers for a few years and it seems everywhere I went, the roads were bad. Thankfully the Bilsteins could shrug off road imperfections and bumps with ease and still maintain a steady and composed ride.

One thing that worries me is for the car to be less bouncy over undulating surfaces I reckon it needs to be a combination of stiffer and quicker rebounding.

Bilstein has a video on their YouTube channel demonstrating how their dampers effectively deal with undulating road surfaces, although I'm sure the Koni dampers handle it fine as well.

[05andahalfs4]

Do you guys think the Bilsteins sports are more harsh than the oem all said and done (stock springs of course, 05 s4)?

[silverTL6]

I've never heard that the B7 was stiffer. As far as I know they have the exact same suspension.

I noticed this after test driving a bunch of stock B6's and B7's (while shopping for an S4), then saw it being mentioned in a couple forums and it all made sense.

And although Wikipedia isn't exactly the source of truth, it does mention "There are a few mechanical changes, such as revised springs and dampers..." in the B7 section.

Anyone know for sure?