StopTech Brake vs. Hawk HPS vs. EBC Impressions?

[occasl]

It's time to replace my brakes and I want to stay under $1k. I did some research and it seems like StopTech gets pretty good marks for this Sports Brake Kit. Or there's this Audizine deal I found.

The other option I looked at was just doing fronts: Hawk HPS Pads with slotted/drilled rotors. It's more than 1/2 as much, but just looking the pics it looks like StopTech is better quality.

One other option I looked at was EBC (red's).

What's your experience if you replace the OEM brakes with any of these? I plan to track in April too but maybe go 1-2x a year.

[s4nAri]

Do you need to replace your rear rotors also?

[jran76]

I've run the HPS's on a different car, and I was not a fan; especially at the track. They had less dust, but initial bite and wet weather performance were not very good. I would say the same for the Stoptech pads, but better wet performance, but less overall stopping power (I ran both and HP+ on a Stoptech BBK on my last car). I would not run either on any serious track expeditions.

I would go with Carbotech Bobcats or the EBC Red for the street (go Yellow if you plan to lightly track the car). If you plan to really track your car, I would go with Carbotech XP12 pads or something similar, but you would need to swap street/track pads at that point.

[occasl]

Do you need to replace your rear rotors also?

Perhaps, not sure if it's recommended to run OEM rear and aftermarket for front.

[apexit1]

1k front and rear or just one axle? If just one I'd do a 2 peice rotor with HPS pads.

[IanCH]

I run ECS geomet with Hawk HPS on the front and OEM almost worn out on the back. car stops fine and I havent noticed any performance problems leaving the rears alone. My rears are only a little over half way to worn out while the fronts the rotors were too thin.

[Akatsuki...]

HPS is terrible.. my favourite is OEM pads .. works great for me. HPS has no stopping power and poor initial bite. Only good thing is low dust.

[IanCH]

HPS is terrible.. my favourite is OEM pads .. works great for me. HPS has no stopping power and poor initial bite. Only good thing is low dust.

Do people actually like the instantaneous jolt you get from a half depression of the pedal on OEM pads? I think that is a characteristic to avoid.... Much more prefer the linear pedal feel all the way to the floor.

I completely disagree with poor stopping power as well, I have noticed better stopping power after a proper bedding. I will admit I am inexperienced and have only tried the two type and not akebono yet.

[Akatsuki...]

Do people actually like the instantaneous jolt you get from a half depression of the pedal on OEM pads? I think that is a characteristic to avoid.... Much more prefer the linear pedal feel all the way to the floor.

I completely disagree with poor stopping power as well, I have noticed better stopping power after a proper bedding. I will admit I am inexperienced and have only tried the two type and not akebono yet.

well maybe you should learn to not step on your brakes so hard

With brakes lines and fluids on stock pads.. I go for a whole day at mosport with no brake fade.. even on Shannonville and DDT.. which are fairly brake dependent for heavy cars like the s4.

[apexit1]

funny how you say you track your stock pads and love it while its the 1st thing ppl recommend to replace for a stock day. Maybe the track is easy on the brakes?

[cspcrx]

I like EBC brakes, I can catch them on fire. LOL

Seriously I have run EBC and Hawk on my CRX and love Hawk pads. EBC, no way. Got a free set, will not ever use them even if I got another free set.

[rs4dreams]

I like EBC brakes, I can catch them on fire. LOL

Seriously I have run EBC and Hawk on my CRX and love Hawk pads. EBC, no way. Got a free set, will not ever use them even if I got another free set.

What have you found bad about EBCs? What pads did you use?

[Akatsuki...]

funny how you say you track your stock pads and love it while its the 1st thing ppl recommend to replace for a stock day. Maybe the track is easy on the brakes?

4km track.. high speed.. braking at 210+... no issues

I know another member as well who tracks with me and he uses stock pads no issues. IMO the issue with the stock brakes, the fluids and the lines are the culprit. Once I swapped those out there wasnt any more issues

[apexit1]

Doesn't look like a track thats hard on the brakes. I think thats a disconnect people have with whats heard on forums. A track like that may be fine on stock breaks but taking your car to a tighter more brake intensive track would likely make you re-think what you think about stock brakes. They are obvioulsy working well for you but it doesnt seem to always be the case.

[adbender]

Mosport is a fast track but not overly hard on brakes. I ran it first with stock brakes with fair but not total confidence. Stoptechs take a beating and are quite linear but don't excel in any area. I am happy that they are quiet and durable. Perform as well as stock on street IMO and better than stock on track.

[cspcrx]

What have you found bad about EBCs? What pads did you use?

Yellow stuff pads. Oversized pads, brake upgrade, on a lighter car. They told me they were more than enough for the car. NOT! Never tried the reds went straight to hawks and have never looked back. Best part was when the pad material came off of the metal backing!

[audistealth]

Yellow stuff pads. Oversized pads, brake upgrade, on a lighter car. They told me they were more than enough for the car. NOT! Never tried the reds went straight to hawks and have never looked back. Best part was when the pad material came off of the metal backing!

I'm looking into pads right now as well, thanks for this post. Note to self, no EBC.

[cspcrx]

Just to clarify I have never tried them on my S4. But my feeling is that if oversize pads can not handle my 1900lb CRX how well will they work on a 4000lb S4? Funny part was they told me because of the oversize brake setup that I could run greens. LOL

[occasl]

I run ECS geomet with Hawk HPS on the front and OEM almost worn out on the back. car stops fine and I havent noticed any performance problems leaving the rears alone. My rears are only a little over half way to worn out while the fronts the rotors were too thin.

Do you have drilled, slotted or both on your rotors? Wondering the differences between those? Do you change your lines and swap brake fluid? Can you describe how the brakes feel?

I'm looking for brakes with bite so I could stop on a dime if I had to. I don't like soft, linear feeling brakes as you and others described. It sounds like I wouldn't like HPS based on what Akatsuki said. Maybe just pick up new rotors and stick with OEM pads/calipers. Soooo confusing on the many options people talk about here.

[audistealth]

Do you have drilled, slotted or both on your rotors? Wondering the differences between those? Do you change your lines and swap brake fluid? Can you describe how the brakes feel?

I'm looking for brakes with bite so I could stop on a dime if I had to. I don't like soft, linear feeling brakes as you and others described. It sounds like I wouldn't like HPS based on what Akatsuki said. Maybe just pick up new rotors and stick with OEM pads/calipers. Soooo confusing on the many options people talk about here.

I have a separate thread going on at the same time about street (no track) brake pads. http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ke-pads-rotors

Functionally, there isn't much difference in surface styles on one-piece rotors. It's mostly what you like to look at.

[Akatsuki...]

Doesn't look like a track thats hard on the brakes. I think thats a disconnect people have with whats heard on forums. A track like that may be fine on stock breaks but taking your car to a tighter more brake intensive track would likely make you re-think what you think about stock brakes. They are obvioulsy working well for you but it doesnt seem to always be the case.

Mosport is a fast track but not overly hard on brakes. I ran it first with stock brakes with fair but not total confidence. Stoptechs take a beating and are quite linear but don't excel in any area. I am happy that they are quiet and durable. Perform as well as stock on street IMO and better than stock on track.

I've been to more brake intensive tracks (Mosport DDT and Shannonville).. with Stock pads on stainless lines and ATE super blue, I still did not have any fade on a 30+ degrees Celsius day in the summer. Obviously, this all depends on the lines you are taking and the skills of the driver, but from my experience so far and going to track with another fellow S4 owner.. it seems that the stock lines and fluids are the culprit.

@Adbender.. with regards to stock brakes not giving total confidence.. I will agree. While they are fairly good with lines and a fluid flush.. I still would like to have better brakes.. I am looking at going Stoptech 355 ST60 this summer.

Do you have drilled, slotted or both on your rotors? Wondering the differences between those? Do you change your lines and swap brake fluid? Can you describe how the brakes feel?

I'm looking for brakes with bite so I could stop on a dime if I had to. I don't like soft, linear feeling brakes as you and others described. It sounds like I wouldn't like HPS based on what Akatsuki said. Maybe just pick up new rotors and stick with OEM pads/calipers. Soooo confusing on the many options people talk about here.

My advice, if you don't want to go up BBK or risk a noisey pad, just get a new set of OEM pads with stainless steel lines and fluid flush. Unfortunately.. with our OEM calipers.. there's not much to choose from. Hawk only makes Ceramics and HPS for our car's stock caliper the last time I checked.

[occasl]

I have a separate thread going on at the same time about street (no track) brake pads. http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ke-pads-rotors

Functionally, there isn't much difference in surface styles on one-piece rotors. It's mostly what you like to look at.

Thanks for the crosspost...your link also has a lot of good information. So what do you plan to go with?

After researching it a bunch today, I'm leaning towards ECS Geomet slotted rotors (sounds like drilled wear too easy) with EBC redstuff pads, although heard good stuff about Hawk HPS too. I'm also going to get stainless steel lines and Motul performance brake fluid. Need to just verify

[audistealth]

Thanks for the crosspost...your link also has a lot of good information. So what do you plan to go with?

After researching it a bunch today, I'm leaning towards ECS Geomet slotted rotors (sounds like drilled wear too easy) with EBC redstuff pads, although heard good stuff about Hawk HPS too. I'm also going to get stainless steel lines and Motul performance brake fluid. Need to just verify

I'm thinking either the Porterfield R4-S, Ferodo DS2500, or just stock (Textar?) again. The stock brakes aren't bad, but I wanted to explore if there was anything better by my definition.

Now the rotors, I'll either go stock, or two-piece if I can find that damn thread...

[Midnight_Rider]

I've run the HPS's on a different car, and I was not a fan; especially at the track. They had less dust, but initial bite and wet weather performance were not very good. I would say the same for the Stoptech pads, but better wet performance, but less overall stopping power (I ran both and HP+ on a Stoptech BBK on my last car). I would not run either on any serious track expeditions.

I would go with Carbotech Bobcats or the EBC Red for the street (go Yellow if you plan to lightly track the car). If you plan to really track your car, I would go with Carbotech XP12 pads or something similar, but you would need to swap street/track pads at that point.

Thanks for this info.

I agree on all these. HPS doesn't have initial bite, but they don't fade as easy either. Less dust, but initial bite is not that great, which is an ok thing for S4 on the street. Stoptech are the same.

Carbotech Bobcats aren't the one's that I've tried, and I heard horrible things about EBC Red, so I'll go with Carbotech.

[Ernie1060]

I have the full front and rear ECS kit. My boss has the stoptech rotors on his track car. As for quality, a picture on the internet is not a fair way to judge them. In person, and having held both of the rotors, the ECS quality is solid. Nothing about them looks any "worse" or "cheaper" vs the stoptech.

As for the initial bite v.s. "linear"... I think linear is not the right word. I think a better word is predictable and consistent and if you are at the track, you look for that, at least more so than "bite"...

I will concede that my track experience is on a bike... I have a track bike and upgraded the brakes (lines, master cylinder, pads...ect, ect..) where braking HAS to be predictable and has to be consistent... any type of a moment of "bite" where it seems to grab harder than what would be expected... well it would cause a crash, lowside, high side... it would make it almost impossible to trail-brake or load the front forks into turns...

Now maybe in a car, that is the exact opposite... what I will say is that I have driven my boss's track car and it felt closer to what I described and felt on my bike, vs the OEM set up on my S4.

Oh, and the "I want to stop on a dime" thing, is not a problem at all with the ECS kit... the question is do you want to do that consistently, or abruptly?

Lastly, I'll be doing a few track days over the next few months. I am looking forward to getting out there in my "cager". and can report on how this set up feels and holds up on the track.

[jokingjimmy]

My buddy just put the ECS kit on his modded A4 and they are really surprisingly solid, he says.

[jokingjimmy]

My buddy just put the ECS kit on his modded A4 and they are really surprisingly solid, he says.

Crap I just realized it was the ECS clutch/lw flywheel not brakes he was talking about. He did recommend Hawk or Carbotech and to stay away from full ceramics, for what it's worth

[audistealth]

I have the full front and rear ECS kit. My boss has the stoptech rotors on his track car. As for quality, a picture on the internet is not a fair way to judge them. In person, and having held both of the rotors, the ECS quality is solid. Nothing about them looks any "worse" or "cheaper" vs the stoptech.

As for the initial bite v.s. "linear"... I think linear is not the right word. I think a better word is predictable and consistent and if you are at the track, you look for that, at least more so than "bite"...

I will concede that my track experience is on a bike... I have a track bike and upgraded the brakes (lines, master cylinder, pads...ect, ect..) where braking HAS to be predictable and has to be consistent... any type of a moment of "bite" where it seems to grab harder than what would be expected... well it would cause a crash, lowside, high side... it would make it almost impossible to trail-brake or load the front forks into turns...

Now maybe in a car, that is the exact opposite... what I will say is that I have driven my boss's track car and it felt closer to what I described and felt on my bike, vs the OEM set up on my S4.

Oh, and the "I want to stop on a dime" thing, is not a problem at all with the ECS kit... the question is do you want to do that consistently, or abruptly?

Lastly, I'll be doing a few track days over the next few months. I am looking forward to getting out there in my "cager". and can report on how this set up feels and holds up on the track.

If you have them, do you like the two piece rotors? I'll need new rotors soonish and I'm looking at OEM RS4 vs ECS.

[Ernie1060]

If you have them, do you like the two piece rotors? I'll need new rotors soonish and I'm looking at OEM RS4 vs ECS.

No I didn't go with the two piece rotors. I thought about it, but at the time I wasn't sure if I would ever need something like that. Now that I want to track the car, I can upgrade down the road if its a problem.

My guess is the build quality is solid given the entry level rotors i got are great.

[Victor Newman]

You guys don't like the Hawk HPS pads? I've got the Stoptech street pads in the front, and Hawk HPS in the rear. My fronts have judder and the pads freeze onto the rotors every time it rains. The rotors are all marked up in places and glossy in others. On the back, the pads don't freeze on the rotors, there are no marks, and the rotors are a nice dull gray color constantly.

I was thinking about taking out the stoptech pads and replacing them with HPS in the front. Bad idea? Was hoping to try that before going to Carbotech bobcats or something. Are the HPS pads more abrasive? For some reason they seem to keep the rotor clean and even more than the stoptech pads. Input welcome

[jayts]

I don't like my HPS pads, initial bite sucks, but when you stomp on them they're great, for a daily driver I don't like them


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[SDV325]

I don't like my HPS pads, initial bite sucks, but when you stomp on them they're great, for a daily driver I don't like them


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Feeling the same way about my stoptechs as well (ECS drilled/slotted rotors). The initial bite sucks but after a decent hard braking they do warm up at which point the overall feel is better. However when they are cold and a really hard brake is required i really have to stand on the pedal. The rear is OEM still, but i will have the same setup in the rear this summer.

Tempted to return to OEM after i burn through these. Brake dust sucks but thats what wheel guard/protector is for.

[jayts]

Feeling the same way about my stoptechs as well (ECS drilled/slotted rotors). The initial bite sucks but after a decent hard braking they do warm up at which point the overall feel is better. However when they are cold and a really hard brake is required i really have to stand on the pedal. The rear is OEM still, but i will have the same setup in the rear this summer.

Tempted to return to OEM after i burn through these. Brake dust sucks but thats what wheel guard/protector is for.

Yea I have the ecs rotors too, I going to get the ecs rotors again but I want to try a pad with more initial bite, I'm not concerned about fading, just need a little better than oem performance


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[SDV325]

Yea I have the ecs rotors too, I going to get the ecs rotors again but I want to try a pad with more initial bite, I'm not concerned about fading, just need a little better than oem performance


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I had Porterfield pads on my GC8, no complaints from them. Was tempted to try them this go around as well, maybe next time.

[jayts]

ok so I like the ECS rotors, but I want a more OEM like initial bite and not as much dust, my options at ECS are

- OEM
- akebono ceramic
- Stoptech posiquiet
- EBC greenstuff

Thoughts?

[SR7D1]

I ran the ECS kit with Hawk HPS pads on my A4 and bought another for the S5. (have not installed them yet, been too cold up here). I don't share the Hawk Hate that others speak of? I have run them at the track and on the street (since it's my DD) and they are a great pad? I got the HPS. I also ran them on my very heavy Talon AWD about 15 years ago, at the strip. "I feel" they are more than enough at my current "intermediate" level during track days. I can't speak to the dusting, since I have matte black wheels.

When the weather breaks I will be installing the rotors, pads, SS lines and Motul fluid. Will let you know how well I like the setup after the first track day in May, by posting in the Track thread here.

[administerturbo]

No one really seems to run the Ferodo DS2500. I haven't run it on my S4 yet, but it's my go to pad. Nice cold bite. Linear feel. Good to about 600 degrees before it starts to fade. Dust is average, maybe a tad less than stock. Easy on rotors. Expensive, of course, but a great all around pad that's up for a track day here and there.

[Midnight_Rider]

I just bought some TRW pads. From my search, TRW is the original OEM manufacturer for a lot of Euro cars.

Comes with the sensor, grease, and they look exactly the same as the stock ones, but prettier. I'll post pix.

Dealer quoted me $1000 for front pads and roters. And I was able to get it for 1/4th of that. I'll be doing the install. It's a single piston caliper up front. Ordered the V-gina cables already for the rear. Finally, I can get my windows open with my key.

[boro92]

I have run Stoptech Street performance, Hawk HPS (non 5.0 pad), EBC Yellow. So I think I can answer the question :)
Stoptech's are low bite, low dust (less than stock anyway!). Cold bite there isn't much there. Hot bite there isn't much there. It modulates well, isn't immediately grabby and feels more like an old school, low pressure boosted brake. If you like that feel, then you will like this pad. However, it is garbage on the track and wears rapidly.
HPS are also low bite. I feel that they have more dust than Stoptech. These fade like crazy on the track (even on a lighter 3200lb car). This is a downgrade from the stock pad. Don't waste your money. Maybe HPS 5.0 is better, but the original HPS is horrendous. I have no clue why so many people do not seem to mind them.
EBC yellow out of the 3 being discussed here are my favorite. They have the best immediate bite, modulate well, and have a decent range of operating temp. Track pads they are not, but for performance street driving--and for the money--they are one of the best pads you can buy at this price range.

IMO if you really want something good on the street, look at Pagid RS421 blue. These are oem pads on porsches and such. Expensive, but work well. Can even hold up to the light track day or two

[Victor Newman]

Thanks for the help boro. The more I read, the more I'm thinking of going with a more aggressive pad. I'll look into the Pagids, but also looking at Hawk HP+ now.

It seems like the StopTech street performance pads are just too mild to keep the rotors swept clean. My rotors look like shit and they judder noticeably. I also intermittently don't have good brake feel in the wet (nothing, nothing, then ABS). Then I park the car and they bond to the rotor overnight. Makes a huge clunk as they break free. Starts the judder process over again. Ugh