What's your cost of ownership on your B6 S4?

[Shorty]

Hi guys, haven't been active for years. I'm toying with the idea of purchasing a members B6 S4 with 66k miles. However, I'm curious if anyone has ever calculated what they spend on average per year for the car, ignoring payments and gas. I'm used to American cars and basically not putting any money in besides gas oil and car washes. My first assumption is that a 2004 Audi is going to be slightly different, and I'm going to sporadically be replacing random parts that fail interior wise or just service on the drivetrain.

So help me get out of that assumption and share what your "unexpected" costs have been on your B6

[0000 V8]

Back when I first bought my car (2004 62k at the time) I was spending about $1200 per month on it. Now, that included $400 for the loan, $300 or so in gas, insurance, and then the average for maintenance and repairs. That includes always doing my own oil changes, car washes and minor repairs (at the time). It also included lots of driving and mileage, as it was my daily for a year and a half.

[Shorty]

Back when I first bought my car (2004 62k at the time) I was spending about $1200 per month on it. Now, that included $400 for the loan, $300 or so in gas, insurance, and then the average for maintenance and repairs. That includes always doing my own oil changes, car washes and minor repairs (at the time). It also included lots of driving and mileage, as it was my daily for a year and a half.

Just the type of answer I'm interested in seeing, thanks.

What type of maintenance and repairs ate up that last $3-400?

Is there any sort of specified/suggested maintenance to be done at a set interval, kind of like a timing belt on other Audi's, that needs to be done for S4s? Like how often do coil packs need to be replaced?

[rockstar]

I agree with ^.

When I had my b6 which isn't any different than my b7. I was/am spending about $1000 a month to own it. It's hard to say an exact figure due to these cars always having an attitude. Some run for ever without problems besides minor things. Others just have something go wrong all the time, rare cases. My b6 and my b7 have been most reliable. Except for when my b7 snapped an axle while going to the beach.

[Shorty]

I agree with ^.

When I had my b6 which isn't any different than my b7. I was/am spending about $1000 a month to own it. It's hard to say an exact figure due to these cars always having an attitude. Some run for ever without problems besides minor things. Others just have something go wrong all the time, rare cases. My b6 and my b7 have been most reliable. Except for when my b7 snapped an axle while going to the beach.

Besides the axle, got any examples of things you had to take care of unexpectedly?
Also, I assume $1000 includes payment/insurance/gas?

[Guitarmageddon]

Id say Im around 800 to 900 on an average month (gas, loan, insurance). The last time I had to pay to have anything fixed would be last Feb when I needed a new coil (replaced all of them to be safe), then nothing until this month when I had a deductible on control arms with my warranty. Still saved me about a grand which Im not complaining about. Factor in the oil change every few months (anywhere from 80 to 150 depending on where you take it, if you do it yoruself, etc...) Damn, everytime theres a thread putting the car into this perspective I wonder why I dont sell it and get a honda beater.....but then I realize I have brand loyalty and self-respect, and I just love this damn car and Ill drive it til it dies

If you dont have a good warranty, it would definitely pay to open up a separate car savings account and allot 50 or more dollars each paycheck into it just in case. That way, if you NEVER need to access that, then just roll it into a down payment (or half of it and save the other half) into your next vehicle. Definitely a good monetary practice.

[Shorty]

Id say Im around 800 to 900 on an average month (gas, loan, insurance). The last time I had to pay to have anything fixed would be last Feb when I needed a new coil (replaced all of them to be safe), then nothing until this month when I had a deductible on control arms with my warranty. Still saved me about a grand which Im not complaining about. Factor in the oil change every few months (anywhere from 80 to 150 depending on where you take it, if you do it yoruself, etc...) Damn, everytime theres a thread putting the car into this perspective I wonder why I dont sell it and get a honda beater.....but then I realize I have brand loyalty and self-respect, and I just love this damn car and Ill drive it til it dies

If you dont have a good warranty, it would definitely pay to open up a separate car savings account and allot 50 or more dollars each paycheck into it just in case. That way, if you NEVER need to access that, then just roll it into a down payment (or half of it and save the other half) into your next vehicle. Definitely a good monetary practice.

That is a good idea.

See I've been an American truck guy, and that's what I'm comparing this against. Payments are going to be about the same, gas about the same, insurance maybe a tad higher. But with the truck, I know what I'm getting into; brakes in 40-50k, a gauge cluster if the lights die, and potentially pulling the valve cover myself to fix something, and that's about it as long as I service it. And this is a truck with double the miles of the S4.

I have this image of just random parts needing to be replaced every year with no rhyme or reason on the S4, but I have zero real footing for that, except for me trying to be realistic in the decision. Thus trying to turn to you guys for help on what is realistic.

[Guitarmageddon]

Yea man, a lot of this is ginned up from fear of engines dying and such. Have you done reading on the common issues with these cars? PLEEEEEASE save yourself the future heartache and do that.

You HAVE TO get a borescope, compression, and leakdown test in addition to your PPI when you potentially buy this car. It may be a bit of an upfront cost, but it pays in the end. Perhaps you can get the seller/dealer to foot some of that bill?

This will prevent you from getting a car with scored cylinder walls (CANT be repaired, these blocks are sleeved at factory) at the very least.

[Shorty]

It probably helps to mention that i also have a company truck that I drive to-from work, and can use very casually around town if desired.
So on average I'd be driving the S4 probably well under 1,000 miles a month.

[Guitarmageddon]

It probably helps to mention that i also have a company truck that I drive to-from work, and can use very casually around town if desired.
So on average I'd be driving the S4 probably well under 1,000 miles a month.

Another bit of advice is dont use the S4 as a short-tripper, again, this adds to the risk of scored walls. Just a small consideration though, because all that means is dont constantly drive it when its cold and never let it warmup. But I think thats a good practice with most vehicles anyways

Oh, and not to insult your intelligence, but make sure you search the timing chain guide issue with these cars. Not really an "issue" to some, but the potential of the timing chain service to cost a lot in the distant future is there. Some cars go their entire lifespan of NEVER needing it, and others have needed it before 60k on the clock, it all depends, but it can be quite pricey

[Shorty]

Yea man, a lot of this is ginned up from fear of engines dying and such. Have you done reading on the common issues with these cars? PLEEEEEASE save yourself the future heartache and do that.

You HAVE TO get a borescope, compression, and leakdown test in addition to your PPI when you potentially buy this car. It may be a bit of an upfront cost, but it pays in the end. Perhaps you can get the seller/dealer to foot some of that bill?

I sent him a PM on here last night, so have not even spoke with him yet. But I don't want to waste his time if the answers to my research turn me away.

I know the Moto of any forum is "SEARCH" but if you have a thread in mind that covers common issues, mind linking it? All I know about is the timing chain rattle.

[Shorty]

Another bit of advice is dont use the S4 as a short-tripper, again, this adds to the risk of scored walls. Just a small consideration though, because all that means is dont constantly drive it when its cold and never let it warmup. But I think thats a good practice with most vehicles anyways

That's a good point, hadn't thought of that. I like to think id be good to it and let it warm up nicely before hand.

[Guitarmageddon]

That's a good point, hadn't thought of that. I like to think id be good to it and let it warm up nicely before hand.

Oh, and this has a lot of good info

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ew-PLEASE-READ

check it out. All in all, this was my "realistic dream car" ever since I "discovered" audi about 5 years ago with my b7a4. The s4 is an amazing car and as far as I can see it, the b5 thru b7 models are a dying breed and should be coveted Someone will correct me if Im wrong, but the 4.2 isnt available on any north american car anymore...correct? That just adds to the difficulty of repairing a catastrophic engine failure though, if one ever should happen. All things to consider.

Oh, and where in socal are you? When I was stationed at Camp Pendleton, audi of mission viejo gave HANDS DOWN the best experience for purchase/maintenance Ive had anywhere. I want to say the guy's name was carlos, he's probably still there. Im sure there have been some with a bad experience here and there. But that is one dealership experience that was consistently pain free my entire time of dealing with them. They did a lot of stuff for free that probably should have cost me, but it really appeared they cared about their customers.

[QIKRNU]

That's a good point, hadn't thought of that. I like to think id be good to it and let it warm up nicely before hand.

The best way to warm up the car is to drive it gently. That warms up the whole drivetrain as well as the engine.

[G-rat]

Bought my 2004 S4 with 49k miles in January. Timing guide and adjuster went at 59k miles in April. Spent about $6000 on doing the timing repair myself. Would have been cheaper if I would have pulled over and stopped driving right away. Timing skipped one or more teeth while I was driving, bent 30 valves so replaced them all.

Replaced clutch and flywheel with performance upgrades while the motor was out. This was preventative because of the known dual mass flywheel failures. My stock flywheel was already showing signs of pending failure. Cost was $1400 for a new setup from JHM.

Only other issues I've had in terms of repairs is I replaced the starter this month ($200) and rear brake pads and rotors ($300 or so).

Great cars but they're certainly not always cheap to own.

That being said, you can just buy mine and not have to worry about the timing repair. Then I can get an RS4. :)

[Shorty]

I'm a tiny bit north of LA, so mission viejo is a bit too far. Thanks for the suggestion though.


G-rat, was there any prior indication of the timing chain failure? Any rattle on startup? That's the type of story that scares me, no real indication and bam hit with a 6k emergency repair.
What year and color?

[combsatl]

I'm really knocking on wood here but...

I have a 04 with 131,xxx on the clock. Minimal Chaim rattle at startup but it has nothing wrong. When I purchased it I probably spent $2,000 in the first few months - chasing down a CEL for a cat issue (after spending $250 on o2 sensors finally fixed it with a simple $4 o2 sensor spacer), replaced the windshield washer pump, oil changes, radiator, control arms, pcv, some $50 check valve I broke while swapping out the pcv, etc with all the associated other costs like alignment, wheels (by choice), tires, etc.

I think the trick is: these cars are expensive to maintain if you run to the dealer or garage at every little thing. These cars have a terrific following and the associated forums are an invaluable source of knowledge. So many on here are so willing to help and answers questions, and most 'known issues' are well documented with step by step guides and tutorials. If you invest a few hundred getting the tools needed to do the job you'll save a small fortune in the long run.

[S4Bennett]

I'll offer up the same data that I offered in a precious discussion. My average service cost is $2000 per annum. It was $2000 the first year, $4000 the second, $1200 the third, and $800 the fourth. The service bucket doesn't include registration or insurance.

It probably wouldn't be so high if I didn't have to do the clutch in the 2nd year ($2000) because I wanted to drag race and buy a new set of summer tires ($600) in the 3rd year.

The front control arms, fuel pump and primary oxygen sensors were also in the 2nd year ($1200).

I've done all the work myself except for the clutch.

[cmd4]

i drive my work truck everyday and only put a few thousand on the S4 a year.In 4 yrs of ownership never had to do a thingHad 2 b6 s4's and other than coil packs,normal maintenance i think there pretty solid cars.I think treating these cars right and proper warmups goes a long way in their longevity and reliability

[blaelock]

Bought the car for $9,500, paid Audi dealer $10,800 to fix oil consumption issue, they initially misdiagnosed the problem so for that $10,800 I ended up with a new short block, clutch, pressure plate, power steering lines and valve train components.

[Shorty]

Some great information guys, thanks.

It sounds like there's a bit more risk for my costs to be greater owning this car vs my other options, but it sounds like I would be on the safer side with it not being my work transport and assuming PPI, borescope, leakdown, and compression all went well.

[ZenkaiRacerS4]

I just got mine a month and half ago with 98k on it. It's killing me right now since I want to fix everything possible right away. I've already done the valve cover gaskets since I have an oil leak. That didn't fix it so its going back to replace any and everything that's leaking including the pcv valve. Had upper control arm bushings replaced, alignment, tires. Also changed the oil, diff oil, brake rotors and pads. All that was near 2k off the bat.

Next is the alternator belt, idler pulley, and tensioner since I'm starting to hear bearing noise when cold from the pulley or tensioner. Then I'm installing an accusump to make sure that my minimal chain rattle at cold start up stays minimal.

Contemplating getting the pre cats gutted when I take it in for the oil leak and belt/pulley/tensioner. But don't really want a tune since I want to keep it mostly stock and the place I'm taking it doesn't do JHM tunes.

Also getting the drivers seat reupholstered and may try to get the seat heater fixed. Getting a paint correction detail along with the interior to get the alcantara back to new shape.

Then replacing the head unit for something with sub control since not being able to control the subs I already have is a pain. I also need a new glove box (damn hinge).

This is all just to get it to where I want it. But once it's done it shouldn't need anything for a while.

All these wear part replacements are much more expensive to get replaced then the usual car that's for sure. They're so much more difficult to replace then the usual car as well, which is why I will not touch this car. I work as a mechanic so coming home to work on my daily and not my race car is not for me, thus I pay a shop to do it. I do have a really good euro shop nearby that is doing everything though at very reasonable prices.

If you don't know every detail about the cars maintenance history I would just be prepared to fork out the cash to replace all wear items and do all maintenance right off the bat. I just really like the car, otherwise I would be very mad at myself for buying a car that needs all this pricey maintenance right off the bat. I don't know that this car will ever be a get in it and drive without worrying about anything other then oil changes type of car like an Accord or something.

[Shorty]

I just got mine a month and half ago with 98k on it. It's killing me right now since I want to fix everything possible right away. I've already done the valve cover gaskets since I have an oil leak. That didn't fix it so its going back to replace any and everything that's leaking including the pcv valve. Had upper control arm bushings replaced, alignment, tires. Also changed the oil, diff oil, brake rotors and pads. All that was near 2k off the bat.

Next is the alternator belt, idler pulley, and tensioner since I'm starting to hear bearing noise when cold from the pulley or tensioner. Then I'm installing an accusump to make sure that my minimal chain rattle at cold start up stays minimal.

Contemplating getting the pre cats gutted when I take it in for the oil leak and belt/pulley/tensioner. But don't really want a tune since I want to keep it mostly stock and the place I'm taking it doesn't do JHM tunes.

Also getting the drivers seat reupholstered and may try to get the seat heater fixed. Getting a paint correction detail along with the interior to get the alcantara back to new shape.

Then replacing the head unit for something with sub control since not being able to control the subs I already have is a pain. I also need a new glove box (damn hinge).

This is all just to get it to where I want it. But once it's done it shouldn't need anything for a while.

All these wear part replacements are much more expensive to get replaced then the usual car that's for sure. They're so much more difficult to replace then the usual car as well, which is why I will not touch this car. I work as a mechanic so coming home to work on my daily and not my race car is not for me, thus I pay a shop to do it. I do have a really good euro shop nearby that is doing everything though at very reasonable prices.

If you don't know every detail about the cars maintenance history I would just be prepared to fork out the cash to replace all wear items and do all maintenance right off the bat. I just really like the car, otherwise I would be very mad at myself for buying a car that needs all this pricey maintenance right off the bat. I don't know that this car will ever be a get in it and drive without worrying about anything other then oil changes type of car like an Accord or something.

Also getting the driver's seat reupholstered, then a pro detail including interior with paint correction services

You made a really great point there, and I guess that's really the heart of my question, I just never thought to word it like that.

Does anyone else feel like that - have to worry about what might be going next and how much its going to cost, every time you drive it, but the fun and joy of driving it just keeps you going?

[G-rat]

I'm a tiny bit north of LA, so mission viejo is a bit too far. Thanks for the suggestion though.


G-rat, was there any prior indication of the timing chain failure? Any rattle on startup? That's the type of story that scares me, no real indication and bam hit with a 6k emergency repair.
What year and color?

I had about 1-2 seconds of bad rattle on cold start and a split second on warm starts sometimes. The suddenly... CEL and no bank account.

Dolphin Grey 2004. Just rolled over 70k miles.

[Shorty]

Thanks for the input guys.

I'm having a hard time finding some costs on PPI/borescope/compression/leak down tests, anyone have any data before I go calling around?

I found one post saying $500 for a leak down? Does that sound right?

[mto925]

Find a performance shop in your area and they should be able to do that sort of thing. I've owned my car just about a month, first time I've ever taken a loan so my payment is $175, I've put two tanks of gas in it so that was $120. That is probably going to go way down because I wont really have access to the car so I am probably going to spend around $200 a month or so on it. Obviously when maintenance comes up it will go up a bit.

[tman52]

Biggest thing I've noticed is $100+ oil changes. Little things like sensors and whatnot are rather costly as well, sometimes they go bad. Anyways, I put 20,000 miles on my 103-123k 2005 S4. Almost $600 in oil changes, $600 in tires, $900 for valve cover gaskets and a new tensioner/belt, and $300 for a crank sensor. $2400 in the last year.
Which is less than the S2000 I owned, and the SRT4 prior to that.

I made absolutely sure that the PO of my car took care of it like no other. Got all records, all maintenance was done more religiously than I would've even hoped for and car was babied like no other. I consider myself to be fortunate and bought an AMAZING higher mileage car.

[Concavitor]

I have a 2004 (bought new) and am currently at 62,400 miles. The last year cost me about $2,800 in unexpected costs (the worst year to date). I drove about 3,500 miles. Since late 2010, it has become my weekend car sort of.

[SpoolBus]

You made a really great point there, and I guess that's really the heart of my question, I just never thought to word it like that.

Does anyone else feel like that - have to worry about what might be going next and how much its going to cost, every time you drive it, but the fun and joy of driving it just keeps you going?

Yes

Correct me if I'm wrong but it appears you are looking for a daily with reliability but still some enjoyment/excitement?

I daily my car and have dumped about 3K into my car (my $ not including $ from my "bumper to bumper" warranty) in 6 months of ownership on repairs. Warranty companies (almost) always deny claims (general insurance CO practice) then it's game on to see what they will pay and what you get stuck with after your deductible, odds and ends (clips, additional hose failing that warranty wont cover because it hasn't technically "failed" etc)

I would NOT recommend this car as your primary means of transportation, luckily I have a motorcycle so worst case I jump on that.

There are other options that will meet your criteria of fun, exciting, affordable means to get you where you need to go.
The $ you save you will thank me and maybe buy me some new timing guides...lol..no really

Oh BTW my car was owned since conception by a middle aged woman (actually spoke to) who had all service records since new. All Audi work (not indi) , tons of receipts, all stamps in the service book etc.

[staubach333]

Yes

Correct me if I'm wrong but it appears you are looking for a daily with reliability but still some enjoyment/excitement?

I daily my car and have dumped about 3K into my car (my $ not including $ from my "bumper to bumper" warranty) in 6 months of ownership on repairs. Warranty companies (almost) always deny claims (general insurance CO practice) then it's game on to see what they will pay and what you get stuck with after your deductible, odds and ends (clips, additional hose failing that warranty wont cover because it hasn't technically "failed" etc)

I would NOT recommend this car as your primary means of transportation, luckily I have a motorcycle so worst case I jump on that.

There are other options that will meet your criteria of fun, exciting, affordable means to get you where you need to go.
The $ you save you will thank me and maybe buy me some new timing guides...lol..no really

Oh BTW my car was owned since conception by a middle aged woman (actually spoke to) who had all service records since new. All Audi work (not indi) , tons of receipts, all stamps in the service book etc.

My car too! Middle-aged woman who was a doctor...Audi maintained, receipts, and the timing system failed 7 months after I bought it from her...I'm telling you man, it doesn't matter how well these cars are maintained (though it can only help), the fuse is always lit...slowly burning!

[b6dolphins4]

I've owned my (04) S4 since 2011, I got the car with just about 82k on it. I searched for a few months until I found it, it was very clean and came with a good deal from local Audi dealership. Since then I've daily driven it with really no issues or complaints. I now have just shy of 120k and it still runs solid, minimal chain rattle and oil consumption is just about a quart every 4500-5k. As far as cost, maintenance wise (oil, fluids, filters,etc.) I've probably spent over $1000 to this day. I've gone through 2 sets of tires so far, currently on my 3rd set which all in all is about $2000 in just tires.

I would say that in a week I probably spend about $200 a week on fuel. And I would say with the cost of replacing worn out/broken parts (power steering lines,tie rods,wheel bearing, brake pads, rotors,etc.) I figure I've spent about $2500-$3000 which in 3 years of ownership isn't too bad seeings how much I drive it. Also I do mostly all my own word so I've saved myself quite a bit in labor costs. But I really can't complain the car has never let me down (knock on wood) and I just love how practical and rounded the S4 is! The combination of the V8, Awd, and the luxury of the interior is amazing. By no means the fastest car or most tuner friendly, but it is a great combination with enough power to get you in to trouble haha! Good luck with your search Op!

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

[Shorty]

Yes

Correct me if I'm wrong but it appears you are looking for a daily with reliability but still some enjoyment/excitement?

I daily my car and have dumped about 3K into my car (my $ not including $ from my "bumper to bumper" warranty) in 6 months of ownership on repairs. Warranty companies (almost) always deny claims (general insurance CO practice) then it's game on to see what they will pay and what you get stuck with after your deductible, odds and ends (clips, additional hose failing that warranty wont cover because it hasn't technically "failed" etc)

I would NOT recommend this car as your primary means of transportation, luckily I have a motorcycle so worst case I jump on that.

There are other options that will meet your criteria of fun, exciting, affordable means to get you where you need to go.
The $ you save you will thank me and maybe buy me some new timing guides...lol..no really

Oh BTW my car was owned since conception by a middle aged woman (actually spoke to) who had all service records since new. All Audi work (not indi) , tons of receipts, all stamps in the service book etc.

Partially correct, I have a company work truck that I daily to-from work and everything in between that, and I could also use it for local personal things if I really wanted. So if I were to get an S4 it would be for mostly around town trips, visiting people, a bit of traveling potentially. Basically the chances of it sitting all week and not being started until the weekend is high.

But you are correct in that I am asking if it's reliable to the point where I won't have to be worrying every weekend I drive it, or have it cost me hundreds of dollars for just a weekend of driving.

It sounds like the answer really is not the one I wanted to hear, these cars are not reliable and are money pits. Not to say they aren't an absolute blast to drive, which I'm sure they are, and that outweighs the cons... But for those of you who purchased used it almost looks like you've spent more on maintenance than you did on the original purchase price. That's just nuts.

[AudiLVR]

Does anyone else feel like that - have to worry about what might be going next and how much its going to cost, every time you drive it, but the fun and joy of driving it just keeps you going?

1000%

[Shorty]

1000%

..

[Denker]

It does seem as though there is more time spent worrying than enjoying the car going on here on AZ. I feel sorry for the owners that actually had a problem, and really sorry for those who are racked with stress about the possibility that the car could die a catastrophic death at any moment. Lol, such a sad existence some S4 owners live.

[staubach333]

Just buy the ****** already and enjoy it! And when it does break, we'll be here to help! Lol.

[S4Bennett]

At this point I've replaced almost everything there is to replace with the exception of the chain tensioners and guides. I think whomever has the car will be good for another 6-8 years.

[Foot]

Since 2011, my 2004 S4 needed a purge valve for $40 from O'riellys auto parts, part no 911-800. rear brake pads for $30 and O'reillys turned the rear rotors for $10. I had to replace the starter for $208 from Rockauto.com . And I repaired some windshield /headlight squirter connections that dry rotted/ became brittle for a $10 or so. I will probably do the chain tetioner and guides this year and plan on spending $4000 and doing it myself.

The S4 or S5 is the only game in town. There are no other V8, 6 speed, AWD Sedans, wagons, or convertibles. (Unless you move to Germany) I'm keeping mine forever. I don't care about smg or dual clutch bs. I want this driveline and no other combo will ever substitute. If you feel the same way, then you'll find a way to keep it running.

[blackedoutt]

Estimate somewhere just below $2,000/year for service and repair if you're particular about having everything function as intended from the factory. This does not include fuel, insurance, or the cost of the car.

[sea_shackF1]

It does seem as though there is more time spent worrying than enjoying the car going on here on AZ. I feel sorry for the owners that actually had a problem, and really sorry for those who are racked with stress about the possibility that the car could die a catastrophic death at any moment. Lol, such a sad existence some S4 owners live.

+1 .... Audizine does seem to have a good amount number of owners who stress about problems that haven't happened yet and may or may not even actually happen to their car.