Review of the South Bend Clutch Stage 3 on my USP Avant

[Supahr_Ed]

I thought it would be helpful to provide a review on my new clutch setup that was installed in my B6 USP (6spd) and on the retail transaction. The process to obtain a clutch was just as hard as choosing the correct setup and I’m glad with my choice.

I originally chose the SPEC Stage 3+ and Single Mass Flywheel via ECS Tuning. Initially, I had a good experience placing the order but ran into horrible customer service so I cancelled my order. I was told in writing that it would be available from SPEC in 4 days after my order. But after a couple of delays, it would not be available until 3.5 weeks later (missed my track day event). ECS pushed the blame on SPEC (which is probably correct) but a Sales Rep, Jack Moran, (Yes, I’m calling him out) became upset when I called his direct line. He said no one is supposed to call sales reps directly and wanted to know how I got his number. He did not believe it was in his email signature (customer service for you, right?). He was happy to cancel my order…

034 Motorsport was contacted and they push me onto Southbend Clutch since I didn’t want a SPEC anymore. I opted for the following setup:

SOUTH BEND CLUTCH KIT,
SS Stage 3 - (KF70205-SS-O) - Daily

SOUTH BEND CLUTCH
SBC0502

I had a great experience with the whole team (especially Ken) at 034 Motorsport. He followed up with comparisons on price and specs on different clutches. He emailed tracking and personally called when he physically had the parts. I should have contacted them in the first place since they are down the block from my work but ECS had a good price on the SPEC. In the end, I lost $140 (and a day of fun) on my track day trying to save a couple of dollars on a clutch. Shopping at ECS is always personable since the staff are just huge car enthusiasts.

Clutch Assessment:
For the first few hundred miles, the Pressure Plate felt heavy. But this is comparing a brand new SS Stage 3 to an OEM Clutch that was worn down to the metal, literally.

Since I opted for a full face disc, I did not notice any issues with the “catch point” like how a puck would feel. Catch Point is right in the middle. There is some resistance on the pedal but it feels “almost” OEM, which makes it more fun to drive. Now, I have 7K miles on the kit and it feels great! I want to state that I commute in traffic all the time and it’s no worse than prior. Very nice feel for a non-race clutch but when shifting at full boost, the engagement feels a bit hard. It’s still a perfect compromise for a daily/spirited driver.

*I live in an area with a lot of hills and I do feel like the clutch slips a bit more than I would like. Sounds like a different description than above right? Yeah, I’m perplex too but it might have to do with the toque rating?

Flywheel:
Single Mass Flywheel feels horrible in the B6, IMO. At low RPM (<2200), the chassis vibrates extreme hard. It’s definitely manageable but it’s not my preference. I never experience a failure with the DMF but I probably won’t want to take the chance. But my experience on the DMF failures is strictly from reading online.

It feels like I have race mounts in the car…

[MikTip]

My SouthBend slipped within a year of install...

[old guy]

My Southbend SS did this: (But it lasted 80k miles before it finally bent the actuating arm)

[IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[SleeperAvant]

I didn't like the southbend OFE SS that I had. I destroyed the clutch disk and also the dual mass flywheel when clutch dropping at 6000rpm.

[itsmatt33]

i replaced mine within a year! southbend is crap

[Supahr_Ed]

I have 8k on the disc right now and it's still holding tight (enough to drag my car while my emergency brake is up) but it might be slipping on the big hills of SF from a stationary position. The clutch is currently 7 month old.

Is it just me or does it seem like all aftermarket clutches for the Audis slip after a year of life? I read the same thing about Clutch Master, SPEC, etc. Is it just hit and miss?

[M-Hood]

Flywheel:
Single Mass Flywheel feels horrible in the B6, IMO. At low RPM (<2200), the chassis vibrates extreme hard. It’s definitely manageable but it’s not my preference. I never experience a failure with the DMF but I probably won’t want to take the chance. But my experience on the DMF failures is strictly from reading online.

It feels like I have race mounts in the car…

Have to say I still haven't figured out why people still try to drive a 4 cylinder car at under 2200 rpm, mostly when they designed to run at higher rpm's anyway. It is a 4 cylinder not a V8.

[MikTip]

Have to say I still haven't figured out why people still try to drive a 4 cylinder car at under 2200 rpm, mostly when they designed to run at higher rpm's anyway. It is a 4 cylinder not a V8.

Shouldnt sound like its gonna rattle the gearbox out of the car either!

[Charles.waite]

Shouldnt sound like its gonna rattle the gearbox out of the car either!

This. Nobody said he's bogging the car everywhere. But when you drive a car normally, it will occasionally get below 2200 rpms. Unless your last name is Tran...

This, however, is a tired argument and some people refuse to understand what "Daily Driveable" means...

(Hint, not you MikTip...)

[Militant-Grunt]

Sound bend is shit, I went with their stage 5 clutch a few years ago, broke it in for 1000 miles with limited to no boost, and started slipping shortly there after and failed by fusing at 1500miles. The owner of the company had the gall to tell me "it was improperly installed then". When I told them that I was a factory trained Audi tech, they had nothing to say. Sent me another clutch which I sold immediately.

If you want a proper clutch contact Marc @ Falcon Clutch. He will make you whatever you want, with whatever material you want. And will figure out for you what capacity the clutch should have.

[dougyfresh]

Never had any issues with my SB OFE SS and OEM flywheel. Had about 70k on it before some stupid valet welded it to the flywheel. It held my 400awhp/370awtq no problem for many miles. I also never 'launched' the car or did anything stupid with the clutch.

[M-Hood]

Shouldnt sound like its gonna rattle the gearbox out of the car either!

Pretty much every single mass flywheel causes that, but what do you want from a 4 cylinder motor that is so unbalanced it will basically shake itself loose. lol

Now everyone back to lugging their 1.8t around at 1500 rpm

[n7plus1]

I have about 40K miles on my SB OFE SS Stage 3 and its already slipping under heavier than stock boost....Never tracked or fucked around with, adult owned....i kindve disappointed.

EDIT: im at apr stage 2+...so im not exactly tearing around in it with a BAT.

I had it installed in 2008 i believe....so there are a few years on it, but less mileage than what it should be. Ill be getting an RS4 clutch next time based on OEM quality and the fact that they cost the same.

[Charles.waite]

^^ interesting. Seems to be the average life expectancy of most aftermarket clutches around here.

I don't get it either. OEMs produce clutches (rs4 for example) that hold 400chp for 80k+ miles yet a stage 3 aftermarket clutch (choose your poison, sb, cm, spec) frequently wears out after half that under less than 300chp.

Mind boggling.

[M-Hood]

^^ interesting. Seems to be the average life expectancy of most aftermarket clutches around here.

I don't get it either. OEMs produce clutches (rs4 for example) that hold 400chp for 80k+ miles yet a stage 3 aftermarket clutch (choose your poison, sb, cm, spec) frequently wears out after half that under less than 300chp.

Mind boggling.

That is because you are comparing high performance material to a OEM material that was designed to last for a very long time when driven easy. A organic material isn't going to wear quickly every time you use the clutch pedal or pull from a stop, but a aftermarket performance material will. With the performance clutch it is about how much power it can handle and hold when pushed to its limits, if you push a OEM organic disk to its limits it isn't going to last very long.


BTW the S4/RS4 OEM setups last a long time because they are self adjusting which means more material on the disk can be used before it needs to be replaced. If your brake setup didn't self adjust do you think it would give you the same amount of miles before you had to swap the pads out?

[mariosa4]

i have a clutchmasters fx400- 228 mm combined to a single mass Eurospec steel flywheel . when i put it in for the first time it was terribly unbalanced causing the car to shake. after 100k miles i decided to change it for a stock clutch and left it for about a year .
when i buit the motor again to 425 whp i used it again , balanced this time, cause i didn't have the money to buy something else and couldn't sell it either. the weird thing is that it's still holding strong after 15k km even at 2.2 bar and almost 450whp. i can't beleive that this is happening for real cause i've read thousands reviews that describe it as a sity clutch , espessially the 228 version. Maybe the combination with eurospec flywheel makes the difference.
Never launch the car cause i know it want last , but it manages to spin all 4 wheels on 2nd gear and 80km/h!! i'm realy curious how much is going to last...

[n7plus1]

That is because you are comparing high performance material to a OEM material that was designed to last for a very long time when driven easy. A organic material isn't going to wear quickly every time you use the clutch pedal or pull from a stop, but a aftermarket performance material will. With the performance clutch it is about how much power it can handle and hold when pushed to its limits, if you push a OEM organic disk to its limits it isn't going to last very long.


BTW the S4/RS4 OEM setups last a long time because they are self adjusting which means more material on the disk can be used before it needs to be replaced. If your brake setup didn't self adjust do you think it would give you the same amount of miles before you had to swap the pads out?

when comparing a like to like HP clutch, this doesnt seem to matter. if the aftermarket clutch holds 350 HP and the OEM clutch holds 350 HP can you even argue the materials?

[Charles.waite]

when comparing a like to like HP clutch, this doesnt seem to matter. if the aftermarket clutch holds 350 HP and the OEM clutch holds 350 HP can you even argue the materials?

This.

I wont argue that on the drag strip, the material is important. But in a DD car, and lets be honest here, anyone hopping on AZ asking about clutches is looking for a DD clutch, whats the reason in arguing this point constantly? If I, a normal driver who uses his car for normal driving things, (aka not a track toy like you tend to assume everyone uses their car for) had the choice between one clutch that could reliably hold 300lb-ft for 30k miles and offer somewhat abrupt engagement and another clutch that could hold 300ft-lb for 100k miles and offer buttery smooth engagement, I would be retarded to not choose the second one.

If a high performance car like the RS4 can use organic materials in an OEM clutch and get reasonable life out of it, WhyTF would anyone choose a Kevlar/broze/insert-fancy-material-here clutch that isn't as easy to drive with and lasts less than half as long?

Or why can a Corvette (for instance) have an easy to use and perfectly normal OEM style organic clutch that lasts for 80k (making that up there so feel free to correct me) and holds 5-600hp day in and day out. Yes RWD, yes marginally lighter car, but if a fucking FX400 can't RELIABLY deal with a measly 350ft-lb 1.8t (ballparking a GTRS 1.8t here) what is the point of the clutch? And why in gods name would someone want to buy it? Because ceramics are cool?

I just think its asinine people keep totally wrong clutches pushed at them becuz dragracecar...

As if everyone launches their car everywhere, and nobody drives in traffic, and nobody does hillstarts multiple times a day... Reality isn't a drag strip...

[n7plus1]

This.

I wont argue that on the drag strip, the material is important. But in a DD car, and lets be honest here, anyone hopping on AZ asking about clutches is looking for a DD clutch, whats the reason in arguing this point constantly? If I, a normal driver who uses his car for normal driving things, (aka not a track toy like you tend to assume everyone uses their car for) had the choice between one clutch that could reliably hold 300lb-ft for 30k miles and offer somewhat abrupt engagement and another clutch that could hold 300ft-lb for 100k miles and offer buttery smooth engagement, I would be retarded to not choose the second one.

If a high performance car like the RS4 can use organic materials in an OEM clutch and get reasonable life out of it, WhyTF would anyone choose a Kevlar/broze/insert-fancy-material-here clutch that isn't as easy to drive with and lasts less than half as long?

Or why can a Corvette (for instance) have an easy to use and perfectly normal OEM style organic clutch that lasts for 80k (making that up there so feel free to correct me) and holds 5-600hp day in and day out. Yes RWD, yes marginally lighter car, but if a fucking FX400 can't RELIABLY deal with a measly 350ft-lb 1.8t (ballparking a GTRS 1.8t here) what is the point of the clutch? And why in gods name would someone want to buy it? Because ceramics are cool?

I just think its asinine people keep totally wrong clutches pushed at them becuz dragracecar...

As if everyone launches their car everywhere, and nobody drives in traffic, and nobody does hillstarts multiple times a day... Reality isn't a drag strip...

yeah, i only DD my car...and in fact purchased this clutch through an old vendor that is no longer around. but he sold various oem parts and these clutches. i cant remember his user id but all i know is his online shop closed and he started doing something else. He was a well-known member and seemed to know what he was talking about. I told him i just wanted a replacement that would hold a little extra power as i planned to be flashed at some point and the car was still stock at this point and i wanted an OEM feel. My OEM clutch was slipping on stock boost...lol...with 75/80k on the clock....he suggested this one...im now at 117k...that clutch did not last as long as it shouldve. end of story.

[Supahr_Ed]

This. Nobody said he's bogging the car everywhere. But when you drive a car normally, it will occasionally get below 2200 rpms. Unless your last name is Tran...

This, however, is a tired argument and some people refuse to understand what "Daily Driveable" means...

(Hint, not you MikTip...)

Thank you. Occasional dip in RPM is just going to happen and I know that our cars have no low-end torque. But I think other people are just nip picking at info that is clearly not the issue.

I understand the engineering that goes into OEM parts. I work for an OEM and I see all the crazy testing and validation required before something is put on a Production vehicle (and the repercussions if they fail to do so). I also understand that aftermarket companies do not have all the resources to ensure a clutch lasts 100k+. But I'm looking for 40k+ and I don't think its that much to ask for. I just hope that this is the case with my setup.

The A4 was not built to be a performance car but the RS4 and Corvettes are, hence the reason their clutches perform better under harsh environments.

I'll be hitting the track this season as the weather gets better and I get my exhaust all sorted out. I don't have enough torque to burn out on a AWD :) so I'll see how it handles on the strip/track.