C5 RS6 TwinTurbo V8 and C6 S6 V10

[holywater]

I am on the fence now about selling my C6 4.2 V8 A6 and getting a C5 RS6 twinturbo V8 or a C6 S6 V10.

I really the V10's in the E60 M5's but I don't think the S6 V10 sounds as exotic as the M5 V10 and I prefer AWD on such high horsepower cars. I really like the tune ability of the V8 twinturbo.

Anyone that owns the RS6 say enough good things to keep you from getting into a newer S6, etc?

[LINDW4LL]

I would take an E60 M5 over both, no questions asked. As good of a car as the RS6 is, the exhaust note of the M5 is absolutely intoxicating. The M5 is also significantly faster. They make anywhere from 420-450whp in stock form, where as the RS6 is around 330-350whp.

I don't even like BMW but I would purchase an E60 in a heartbeat.

[redge2.7t]

The c5 rs6 is a maintenance nightmare!! Timing belt every 30k for $2500, just rotors and pads on all 4 corners is almost 3 grand. If you have unlimited money to burn then go for it. As much as I absolutely love the rs6 and knowing that just a chip and exhaust can get you over 450 hp to the wheels, I would steer clear of it if I was you.

[Bdubs]

Have you looked into the S6 V10 with a Milltek non-resonated exhaust? I loved the sound, as did about everyone (except my wife) that heard it. Not the fastest, quickest or best handling (it's nose heavy, but sways might help) car around, but it was a great daily driver and turned heads and had people stopping to look at it wherever I took it...

[lscheres]

I love the 03 RS6 (current 04 a6 s-line here) but dont think id ever buy it because of its constant upkeep that's always 2k+.... Its a tough decision between the S6 and E60, for me its dependent on the weather, where i live AWD is awesome to have for about 4-6 months of the year. Which is why my nova sits parked most of the time. I LOVE THE E60 SOUND!! Also its a beast all around but for a daily driver, i think the S6 is more practical, unless you live south of the 45th parallel then you'd probably like the E60 more.

[03RSTT]

So many horror stories about the C5 RS6. Speak to an owner or maybe someone who has owned 3 over the years and still owns 2 of them. 1 daily and 1 garage queen....both modded. Ha

Timing belts? 600 dollars in parts and they are good for 40k. One day in the garage to change them.

Brake jobs? 1000 per pair rotors and pads all in. How long does a set last? At least 40k.

Transmissions? Yep, but worst case is $5000 one time and your done for good. I'll take those numbers.

Proper tune and gut the primary cats. Low 12s at 118 no problem.

Constant upkeep on a C5 RS6? My total out of pocket last year on both RS6s is less than 500 dollars.

C6 V10? You better google carbon buildup before buying one of those.

E60 M5? I think the transmissions are 15k a pop.

Good luck

I am on the fence now about selling my C6 4.2 V8 A6 and getting a C5 RS6 twinturbo V8 or a C6 S6 V10.

I really the V10's in the E60 M5's but I don't think the S6 V10 sounds as exotic as the M5 V10 and I prefer AWD on such high horsepower cars. I really like the tune ability of the V8 twinturbo.

Anyone that owns the RS6 say enough good things to keep you from getting into a newer S6, etc?

[Widebody4.2]

So many horror stories about the C5 RS6. Speak to an owner or maybe someone who has owned 3 over the years and still owns 2 of them. 1 daily and 1 garage queen....both modded. Ha

Timing belts? 600 dollars in parts and they are good for 40k. One day in the garage to change them.

Brake jobs? 1000 per pair rotors and pads all in. How long does a set last? At least 40k.

Transmissions? Yep, but worst case is $5000 one time and your done for good. I'll take those numbers.

Proper tune and gut the primary cats. Low 12s at 118 no problem.

Constant upkeep on a C5 RS6? My total out of pocket last year on both RS6s is less than 500 dollars.

C6 V10? You better google carbon buildup before buying one of those.

E60 M5? I think the transmissions are 15k a pop.

Good luck

I think most of us just make it more unobtainable by making it worst then it is

[TheSupervisor]

With that much power I would go through too many tires with the BMW to ever justify any cost of ownership over the Audi. As far as carbon buildup on FSI, if you are getting it, you arent driving it like you are supposed to.

[LINDW4LL]

So many horror stories about the C5 RS6. Speak to an owner or maybe someone who has owned 3 over the years and still owns 2 of them. 1 daily and 1 garage queen....both modded. Ha

Yeah, people make the RS6 sound horrible. The only thing to be really worried about is the tranny, and that should just be factored into the cost as it is going to go out eventually. 01E swap and you're golden.

[svirk2]

S6 sounds much better than the m5, but s6 is kinda slow. I'd take the s6

[JTown77]

This thread needs pictures!

[mr_dave]

So many horror stories about the C5 RS6. Speak to an owner or maybe someone who has owned 3 over the years and still owns 2 of them. 1 daily and 1 garage queen....both modded. Ha

Lol, seriously. People with zero experience owning one always love to chime in on these threads.

I've owned mine for almost 2 years now and here's the complete list of repairs and maintenance I've done:

Oil and filter change

Replace wiper blades

Replace cabin air filter

Replace driver's door map pocket

Tighten front sway bar bracket

I think that's it...

[J.B]

Lol, seriously. People with zero experience owning one always love to chime in on these threads.

I've owned mine for almost 2 years now and here's the complete list of repairs and maintenance I've done:

Oil and filter change

Replace wiper blades

Replace cabin air filter

Replace driver's door map pocket

Tighten front sway bar bracket

I think that's it...

Uhoh.... you must have jinxed it! I hear transmission grenading itself in 3.... 2..... 1......

[mr_dave]

Uhoh.... you must have jinxed it! I hear transmission grenading itself in 3.... 2..... 1......

Can't wait! Then I'd have a good excuse to do a 6sp swap. As of right now my auto is shifting perfectly, sadly.

[4rings2turbos]

I've driven the E60 M5 extensively and in SMG trans form it is a WORTHLESS daily driver. The suspension is also awful, no matter what setting it's in. Also, I don't know what they were thinking on a car so expensive, but the trunk carpet is the same crap that Honda etc. put in their cheap cars. I know it's a small thing, but my MKIV Jetta back in the day had real carpet.

I've driven the S6 a bit and it was a bit slow, but a very nice ride and very classy car. I'd say it's even less common than an M5 which wins you points.

Re: carbon buildup, I think I read something like $500 every 50k miles for cleaning on the 3.2. Not sure about the V10, but thats not too bad IMO.

Personally I'd choose the RS6. Chuck in RNS-E/bluetooth and 01E, doesn't get much cooler than that.

[PatPS6]

Every car meet i show up to, i am the only S6 there, great daily driver and love the look of it.

[v8a6]

I have owned four C5 4.2 based cars, including an S6 and RS6 (although I never really got the full RS6 experience, as it had problems when I got it, and I sold it that way).

I recently purchased a v10 S6. I love the C5 widebody cars, but after having so many, it was time for a change.

The v10 S6 and the RS6 are quite different cars. At this point, the RS6 feels dated on the exterior and interior. If you are just getting into the C5s, then it might seem fresh to you. But having owned them for a long time, I find the C6 interior much more modern.

The S6 seats (as long as you dont get one with comfort seats) are amazing. Even the new S6s essentially have the same seats, just with cross stitching on them.

The RS6 feels more raw in its handling, and less smooth. I installed H&R coilovers and rear sway on by v10 S6, and was amazed how much better it was compared to my H&R lowered C5 S6. Even though they are both H&R coilovers, the newer ones feel SOOOO much better damped, in my opinion.

If you want all out speed and power, it is the RS6 hands down. I am currently modding the hell out of my v10 S6, but the budget is ending up costing me more than I paid for the car. And in the end, the RS6 stock still may be faster (not sure yet as the project is only about 50% complete).

Exhaust tone - Very few cars sound as good as the v10 Audis with an exhaust. Throw some headers on and it and a catback and it will sound like a Lambo.

http://carbuying.jalopnik.com/how-to...ini-1619884688



Stock for stock, the v10 S6 is slow. Mine ran mid 14s at the track, stock, prior to tuneup, carbon clean and with dirty air filters.

For me, I chose the v10 S6, but I plan to turn it into a different car. Plus, I am totally sick of C5s, after so many years of ownership. So, my views are definitely biased.

I would say, drive them both and see if the S6 is fast enough for you. If not, figure out if the interior and exterior of the C5 is something that you really like. Since you already had a C5 A6 4.2, the RS6 is not that much different. Just a LOT faster.

BTW, check my S6 info dump for a lot more info on the v10. Ill have my car back early next year, and will have a project thread started somewhere in between now and then.

[v8a6]

And one more thing, some people will tell you that there isnt much to mod on the S6.

Well, I can tell you from experience, that unless you are Bill Gates, you will run out of money before you run out of things to mod on the v10 S6. LOL. There is plenty, if that is what you are looking for.

[Guitarmageddon]

Oh man this is a tough choice..there is a really bitchin rs6 for sale on auto trader right now too. Loooowwww miles. So tempting.... may the best man win

If there was ever a car I'd drive cross country for, that would be one of them. Too bad Im 40 miles away

And Id really like to know more about the 01E swaps as well...

[4rings2turbos]

^ :O that exhaust.

[forcefed7]

E60 M5? I think the transmissions are 15k a pop.

Good luck

Great post but this part is not entirely true.
They may be 15K all in at the dealership for an SMG, but for a savvy transmission shop, they can easily rebuild for a few hundred dollars more than the straight drive 6-speed box. Also, if the transmission is out, you can easily convert the SMG box over to a regular 6-speed.

If you have the SMG and the 6-speed box side by side on the bench you can see the cases are identical. The real differences are the bellhousing (swap with 6-speed bellhousing), hydraulics/actuator (remove, throw in trash) and open up the box to remove a few SMG parts and replace with bolt-on 6-speed parts. Clutche and internal gears are identical. Code the DME to 6-speed, remove the TCU and you're good to go. Probably around $4000 worth of parts & work if you know someone who won't gouge you.

Or you could rebuild the SMG for around $3500 parts & labor.

[fukinavit]

Agreed , speak to an actual RS6 owner.
The torque of these cars is what makes them different, un -real! that's why its known as a beast.
ive had mine for 2 years, other than front rotors its been amazing and now has over 200,000kms and the engine has never been out.
as for my other A6?!, well ive spent a bit on that, new turbos, rebuilt trans, stage 3 and Ill take the RS6 torque and power anyday, not to mention that sound!

[v8a6]

Agreed , speak to an actual RS6 owner.
The torque of these cars is what makes them different, un -real! that's why its known as a beast.

RS6 C5 V8- 450HP/415TQ
S6 C6 V10 - 435HP/398TQ

Less than 5% difference in peak rated HP/TQ between the two


RS6 Gearing
1st: 3.571, 2nd: 2.200, 3rd: 1.505, 4th: 1.000, 5th: 0.804
Final drive ratio 3.20:1

S6 - Gearing
1st: 4.171, 2nd: 2.340, 3rd: 1.521, 4th: 1.143, 5th: 0.867, 6th: 0.691)
final drive ratio 3.801

S6 is geared much more aggressive



RS6 - 4,112 lb
S6 - 4,210.8 lb

RS6 is 100 pounds lighter (approximately 2.5%)


RS6 - Compression ratio 9.80:1
S6 - Compression ratio 12.5:1 (instant throttle response)

S6 has a much higher compression ratio


RS6 - FI (lag)
S6 - NA - (no lag)

S6 has none of the lag associated with FI cars


I have driven both and I disagree. The v10 S6 is comparable to the RS6 in the low-end torque department. It is up top where the RS6 takes off once the boost kicks in.

Have you driven a v10 S6?

No one is disputing the RS6 is faster and more powerful overall. When chipped, the car is even faster. But the C5 transmissions are terrible compared to the ones used in the C6 S6/RS6, and are known to blow even under stock power.

My advice for OP, is go see and drive both. They are quite different in a lot of ways. Power is great, but the v10 is not bad itself, even stock. And there is a LOT more to a car then just how fast you can get down the quarter mile.

And if you REALLY wanted to make your v10 S6 faster than a C5 RS6, I am sure you could find someone to get you there, if you have enough money :)

Ill just leave this v10 S6 interior shot for you

[fukinavit]

Peak torque is exactly it, peak is spread from 1500 to 5000 on the rs6 where as 3000 to 4000 on the s6. People forget that the rs6 engine is what makes the car. It's more than just turbos!

[v8a6]

OK lets look at your statements.

People forget that the rs6 engine is what makes the car. It's more than just turbos!

No, it is not more than just the turbos. Take away the turbos, and youll have a car that is slower than an A6 4.2. There are a lot of other things that the RS6 has over the A6 4.2, but take away the Turbos, and it is pretty much an C5 S6 with nicer bumpers and side skirts, but much slower. DRC suspension is crap, since it is guaranteed to fail, and almost every RS6 owner replaces it.

If you remove the turbos from the RS6 4.2, you will have a mild cammed, single stage intake, low compression 4.2. Yes, it will be slower than a stock A6 4.2.

Peak torque is exactly it, peak is spread from 1500 to 5000 on the rs6 where as 3000 to 4000 on the s6.

LOL, ok. I think you have been reading too many marketing blurbs.

Here is the v10 S6 stock dyno from APR. They convert the figures back to approximate crank HP, with some calculation. On 93 octane testing, they seem to find that the S6 v10 puts out more than the rated TQ. They have a peak at about 440 lb/ft. What is more important for our discussion is the curve, not the figures.



From 2500 to 5000, the v10 S6 has about a 10% difference in TQ. Not entirely flat, but probably not even noticeable when driven.

I couldnt find stock RS6 dyno, but I will assume it is totally flat from 1500-5000. Here is your next problem. These cars are both AUTOMATICS.

After 1st gear 4500rpm, which you will hit pretty much as soon as you hit the throttle from a stop, how do you plan to tap into this "peak" TQ from 1500-4500? The only way you can get max torque in an automatic car is by flooring it. As soon as you floor the car in any gear under 4000 rpm, the car is going to instantly downshift to the lower gear, and youll be at about at least 4500 rpm or higher. Therefore, this broad peak TQ rating is useless, unless you have a manual car and are lazy with your shifting. Gearing down will have a much greater effect on acceleration then having low RPM TQ.

While I agree that area under the curve is important for a street driven car, the v10 5.2 has a flat enough TQ curve that the RS6 is not going to be much further ahead.

Now, consider this. The two cars are side by side, cruising at 35 miles/hr in sport mode. Both cars punch the throttle. Who do you think will take the quick lead? My money is on the S6.

S6 - Better gearing
S6 - Instant throttle response due to high compression
S6 - NA engine = no waiting for turbos to spool up
S6 - Faster shifting transmission

The RS6 may catch up in a second or two, but it will be the S6 that takes the early lead.

From my car, I want the quickest acceleration instantly, when I punch it. I don't want to have to wait a second or two for it to get up to speed. By then, I am already hitting the brakes due to the fact that I am a law abiding citizen, and I don't want to get traffic tickets that will push my insurance payments through the roof.

[v8a6]

My case in point, what this video of a C5 RS6 0-200 kph. After 1st gear, the car never goes below 5000 rpm

[v8a6]

My case in point, what this video of a C5 RS6 0-200 kph. After 1st gear, the car never goes below 5000 rpm




EDIT:

Here is a clearer one. Looks like the RS6 drops to 4800 when shifting

[fukinavit]

Wow, you obviously love your new car and I respect that. Now my vote was the rs6, next.

[v8a6]

Cheers :)

BTW, Im not saying one is better than the other. I stick by my initial advice to OP, go check them both out and the choice should be pretty clear. They are quite different.

[4rings2turbos]

Forever a big displacement NA engine will have a nice, instant and linear delivery. But a turbo will provide the more violent kick making them feel faster. For some people the turbo lag will be annoying, for others the feel of the boost will be intoxicating enough to overshadow any lag.

[4rings2turbos]

^Just reaffirming V8A6's info above. The RS might not be any faster, but it will feel faster at times.

And oh my land, the C6 S6 seats are SO win. Crazy comfortable.

[fukinavit]

^Just reaffirming V8A6's info above. The RS might not be any faster, but it will feel faster at times.

And oh my land, the C6 S6 seats are SO win. Crazy comfortable.

Actually the RS is faster, and it does feel it too.
Yep, no doubt those seats do look good.

[v8a6]

Actually the RS is faster, and it does feel it too.

Can't argue with that!

[aaaudiprotein]

Lalala

[Racin2redline]

Performance aside the c6s6 is absolutely beautiful, the interior doesn't leave much to be desired. The rs6 is beautiful in its own respects but it is dated in a few departments

[aaaudiprotein]

Performance aside the c6s6 is absolutely beautiful, the interior doesn't leave much to be desired. The rs6 is beautiful in its own respects but it is dated in a few departments

I agree