2.0T FSI power limitation???

**acesys1200** · 12-16-2013 01:22 PM

So after searching and reading other posts the main limits of this engine is rods limit pushed at 350hp max. HPFP is good for 200HP in stock form, LPFP idk when the limit is reached for sure but after reading Vizi thread it is a problem at just above 400HP. Correct me if my understanding is wrong thus far and is the DW300 LPFP the fix to that? Has anyone tried using the new 400lph pumps? My real quest in this was to find out what is needed to go 500HP+ without needing to be a rich person to get there. Would anyone be able to help point me in the right direction, maybe even some links? I'm new to the direct injection german engineering world but have been moding and tuning for several years now. Any help is much appreciated and thanks in advance. BTW any info pertaining to the quattro tiptronic limits would be helpful as well.

**acesys1200** · 12-16-2013 10:42 PM

Sorry I ment the stock HPFP is good for about 250HP

**schirm** · 12-17-2013 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by acesys1200

So after searching and reading other posts the main limits of this engine is rods limit pushed at 350hp max. HPFP is good for 200HP in stock form, LPFP idk when the limit is reached for sure but after reading Vizi thread it is a problem at just above 400HP. Correct me if my understanding is wrong thus far and is the DW300 LPFP the fix to that? Has anyone tried using the new 400lph pumps? My real quest in this was to find out what is needed to go 500HP+ without needing to be a rich person to get there. Would anyone be able to help point me in the right direction, maybe even some links? I'm new to the direct injection german engineering world but have been moding and tuning for several years now. Any help is much appreciated and thanks in advance. BTW any info pertaining to the quattro tiptronic limits would be helpful as well.

If you have a Tip you will never make it to 500HP, they cant handle much power you will need to do a 6 speed swap. Also, to make it to 500hp you will need to be a rich person, because no one has done it yet. There is maybe two people on here that have made it past 400WHP http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ig-Turbo-Build is one of them. Read his built from beginning to end and you will have a good understanding where all the limitations are of this motor. And what has to be replaced in order to get above 400HP

**LINDW4LL** · 12-17-2013 12:30 PM

2.7 swap.

/thread

**acesys1200** · 12-19-2013 11:56 AM

Well I'm to new to post to drumnjuny's thread but it seems the main hold up in power is the LPFP and I have to ask why ppl keep using stock or OEM upgrades like the S3 pump to the LPFP instead of using say a walbro 400lph pump and just replace the pump instead of the whole unit? His car is a beast of it's own with it's own issues but an engine is an engine just differences in technology within the engine. Air + fuel + the right degree of timing = power. I have a lot of questions and ideas but so new to the Audi engine designs, I would love to chat with a Audi vet and get caught up. I'm sure I don't have any new ground breaking ideas but I don't understand the real hurdles needing to be jumped either.

**ROH ECHT** · 12-22-2013 11:45 PM

There are few over 500whp and those have internals and fueling mods. Roughly around 375whp is the mark to upgrade the internals. I know quite a lot at 350 to 370whp on oem internals.

To get to 500whp....big turbo, stronger internals(cams, rods, and perhaps pistons), upgraded fueling(both lpfp and hpfp), upgraded valves(DV and WG) and sensors(MAP for sure), and of course larger intake, exhaust, and boost piping. BSH,ATP, 034 motorsport, Frankenturbo, Integrated Engineering, LOBA are all sites to visit in your search.

**LINDW4LL** · 12-23-2013 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by ROH ECHT

There are few over 500whp and those have internals and fueling mods. Roughly around 375whp is the mark to upgrade the internals. I know quite a lot at 350 to 370whp on oem internals.

To get to 500whp....big turbo, stronger internals(cams, rods, and perhaps pistons), upgraded fueling(both lpfp and hpfp), upgraded valves(DV and WG) and sensors(MAP for sure), and of course larger intake, exhaust, and boost piping. BSH,ATP, 034 motorsport, Frankenturbo, Integrated Engineering, LOBA are all sites to visit in your search.

In the B7 community it's said that 300whp is pushing your luck on stock rods. Several people have bent rods below 350. Obviously the torque onset has a lot to do with how long they'll last but I still wouldn't push my luck if he's going for big power anyway.

**LINDW4LL** · 12-23-2013 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by acesys1200

Well I'm to new to post to drumnjuny's thread but it seems the main hold up in power is the LPFP and I have to ask why ppl keep using stock or OEM upgrades like the S3 pump to the LPFP instead of using say a walbro 400lph pump and just replace the pump instead of the whole unit? .

Most people use S3 injectors. I don't recall anyone using the S3 LPFP. A Bosch 044 or Walbro LPFP will work great.

**ROH ECHT** · 12-23-2013 12:30 PM

That is quite odd as even APR stage 3 kits well exceed 300whp on stock rods.?.?.? And I've heard of no 2.0t fsi's encountering bent rods at 350 whp yet, but if you say so...

My previous tune was 285 whp and 364 ft*lb torque with no issues. Haven't dyno'd the current tune, as it is only one month new, but there is more power for sure.

**acesys1200** · 12-24-2013 04:46 PM

Thank u guys for the responce

So others have used an aftermarket pump with success huh? The best HPFP has been proven to be what? Whats the deal with the cams, the profile wont allow enough air? I thought the pistons were already forged stock, anybody know what the limit would b on the tip trans? Anybody try using aftermarket HPFP's? I just ask cause I seen a few on aeromotives site, don't remember the spec's but thought I would ask.

**ROH ECHT** · 12-24-2013 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by acesys1200

Thank u guys for the responce

So others have used an aftermarket pump with success huh? The best HPFP has been proven to be what?

The one you keep an eye on to preserve the cam follower. Autotech is good enough but you must take care during installment. HPFPUpgrade has a nice option. APR is reliable. KMD/REVO was at first to be avoided, but some research may prove it to be much better since the involvement of REVO with KMD to control their early quality issues.

**acesys1200** · 12-26-2013 05:43 PM

Another question, the Maestro has stage 1, 2, & 3 base maps, does anyone know the HP ratings for these maps and what all gets changed? Like the boost curve, boost presures, timing, ect.? Also I would guess supporting mods are the same as APR's tune levels?

**acesys1200** · 12-30-2013 05:22 PM

Really, nobody knows anything about this? I must be posting in the wrong place

**flatsick** · 01-11-2014 10:27 PM

your goal is unattainable...that being 500+ hp without having a shitton of money to throw into it. You are going to need a built motor (pistons built around the turbo system, aggressive intake and exhaust porting, fortification in the rods, etc,,etc), significant computer modifications (something which noone has knowledge of for that type of HP) or a standalone, a custom turbo setup with a to4e+ turbo if you want efficiency, a transmission that wont break all the time, fuel delivery modifications... I used to build drag import cars, it piles up quickly. 400 HP is more realistic and even then with these cars you will probably have issues.

as a side note, aeromotive is the only fuel delivery system i would use but way high for only 500hp. I have used them on several high hp cars and they make a quality product.

Just as a guestimation, here is what i think you will spend at minimum

Built Engine: $3000
Fuel delivery system: $1000 (pump, lines, injectors, possibly a custom rail, pressure regulators)
Custom Turbo system: $4000 (a good turbo will cost you around a grand along, then you have to think about intercooler systems, piping, wastegates, blow off, custom intake)
Computer: $2000 I used motec/haltech/aem standalones, I have absolutely no idea how they would integrate with a car like this, between dyno and tuning time...rack up the $$$
Transmission: If you are using a TIP, there is going to need to be some programming, fortification in the torque converter and even then you will probably destroy them quarterly if not shorter.

Start your budget at $10 grand and factor in 20% for fuckups and specifics... Its not an easy task. It would be fucking awesome however.

**ROH ECHT** · 01-11-2014 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by acesys1200

Another question, the Maestro has stage 1, 2, & 3 base maps, does anyone know the HP ratings for these maps and what all gets changed? Like the boost curve, boost presures, timing, ect.? Also I would guess supporting mods are the same as APR's tune levels?

Have you checked in the UK:http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/in...oard,33.0.html
Look up John Hurdy aka: Hurdy to point you in a direction concerning Maestro.
My new DM K04 tune is quite a nice bump from the old GIAC K04 HO tune I had.
Boost:

Old giac tune did 0 to 120 mph in 15.8 seconds
and the new DM tune did it in 13.3 seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icftiiZr60A

**SkillzVrt** · 01-20-2014 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by acesys1200

Really, nobody knows anything about this? I must be posting in the wrong place

That's for you to figure out if your a "tuner". If your not even familiar with the German Cars get familiar with them.High pressure fuel system as well as the engine FSI,TSI, TFSI. Modding these cars will be a lot different from modding your Honda's.

**MadRacer** · 01-28-2014 11:07 PM

What is the limitation of the pistons ? What about the SMIC ?

**Biged243** · 03-16-2014 10:03 AM

Y'all have to remember that you can obtain higher whp with fwd than awd because awd has more power loss through the drive train. So if the engine is making 350 bhp a fwd will see more of that on a dyno than an awd could be the difference of the numbers between y'all

**ROH ECHT** · 03-17-2014 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by schirm

to make it to 500hp you will need to be a rich person, because no one has done it yet.

Rich...yes. Not done yet...no.
525hp 2.0t fsi in 2007...Time Attack prepped:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=oRH5UFeNYHk

You would, at least, need race connecting rods along with a turbo to get there reliably...oh, and lots of patience to wait for the lag to end ;)
more info link: http://www.audizine.com/forum/archiv.../t-219106.html
My K04 is plenty for the 2.0t fsi
3__whp? w/DM K04+tune (no internals) no dyno or 1/4 pulls yet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icftiiZr60A ←this is 2.5 seconds quicker to 120mph then the giac k04 ho tune was!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8VGg...OHLU7IwZaFWg_A

This was when it was 290whp w/giac K04 HO tune (no internals): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnEKOLOUS3k

**2010b8a4apr2** · 06-17-2014 02:51 PM

tuning companies have told me the tsi's can hold a bit more power but not much more. i have a b8 a4, so fuel components are upgraded, but has tsi setup plus valvelift on head. made 304awhp, and 357awtq. i know i can make more, but im sure i should do rods soon

**Krmass25** · 03-02-2019 04:56 PM

Look at Integrated engineering. They sell performance shortblocks and you can go even more wild.

Get their best TFSI block and add H beam connecting rods.

Get the best head with supertech springs and ferea valves.

Do the 1.8T oil pump conversion,

billet timing gear

arp bolts all over

fluidampr

all fueling upgrades

replace prop shaft and all half shafts

send tip trans to 517 transmission and have them modify the valve body, upgrade the torque converter

put all sold mounts on the car

huge exhaust and maybe even custom hand welded tube headers to replace the iron type manifold

upgraded intercoolers or single FMIC

billet valve cover (you will blow the plastic one)

all big intercooler piping

port maf

GTX2876 TURBO with manifold for 525 HP

CT5 fuel controller with water/methanol injection for 100HP

tune it all and see what happens

With that setup technically nothing should break in the motor and it should have a possibility of having more than 525 whp while spraying... technically...