B8 A4 APR stage 2 vs a stock B6 s4

[DJ_AudiA4]

So i just did a pull with my buddy vs him in his stock B6 S4 and hung with him the whole time. I barely lost by a nose. he took me off the start and i sucked him up in 3rd. Now i know "it doesn't matter if you win by and inch or a mile, winning is winning" but i thought he was going to blow my doors off. plus he was talking all kinds of trash. We did a roll from 20mph. I didn't know where to judge my car or how much more power/speed the stage 2 and bolts-on i have added but i feel really good about my A4 right now.

Do you think his S4 is just running poorly?

has anyone else been able to hang with a S4?

[TCHUN003]

I used to beat stock B6/7 S4's all the time. If we were in higher altitudes, the S4 wouldn't even have a chance, but down here, it's pretty close. I'm pretty excited to get my Frankenturbo so I can finally keep up with/beat B8S4's.

[800088]

S4 B6s aren't that quick. Simple as that. Unless y put a blower on it.... most competent FI cars with a tune and some bolt ons would eat it for breakfast.

May the boost be with you.

[lditty]

And also with you

[Black3.2]

i recently sold my B7 S4, one of my good friends has a stage 2 B8 A4 avant - my old S4 was stock except for an exhaust. The stage 2 could not hang with my S4, i would say that the motor on the B6 is most likely not as health as it used to be. If you dont know the platform well, the motors can have issues with cylinder scoring so you obviously lose a lot of compression.

With that said a stage 2 A4 is nothing to sneeze at, a very awesome car

[Stubek]

put a FMIC on there and you will be ahead. Also, from a dead stop you will win.

[auditd0rk]

I can hang with the stock B8 S4s at the track, though they will create a little bit of separation in the straights -- I'm able to recover in the turns. It's pretty fun running open lapping with those guys.

However, a buddy of mine has a B8 S4 with the Stasis tune... that thing is a completely different beast.

[b6onboost]

Sounds about right.

A stock B6 S4 is a mid 13s car in the 1/4. Stage II B8s have posted mid 13s runs. They should be pretty evenly matched. Depening on conditions and the driver I could easily see either edging the other out.

[t3han0maly]

how much power does a stage 2 make?

[auditd0rk]

how much power does a stage 2 make?

Here's a screenshot from APR's site:

[DJ_AudiA4]

according to APR the stage 2 makes around 222 to the wheels. i would say thats pretty accurate along with my intake and full exhaust i have to be somewhere around there. We live in the Lancaster area so the elevation is about 2300ft. We did a pull from zero but my launches are horrible and he had me right off the line i couldn't recover from it. Maybe if i could have got my hands on some 100oct i would have smoked him.

An FMIC is definitely my next mod and then a K04. I can't wait to get that K04 and blow him out. It just feels good because he was talking about how fast his car was for weeks.

[Jake@JHM]

A bone stock B6 S4 can be kind of gutless. With out tuning and exhaust, they reaallyy wake up and can get into the 12s.

[Alex1188]

A bone stock B6 S4 can be kind of gutless. With out tuning and exhaust, they reaallyy wake up and can get into the 12s.

Speaking of tunes.... You guys a JHM need to get with the B8 movement and start making tunes so you can beat my APR Stage 2+ 1/4 mile time, so then i can buy your tune!

Maybe also make a k04 kit of your own?!

[A4 Centaur]

The Stage II seems to make quite a bit of torque. I can roll on all kinds of folks at +6000 Ft. MSL with my B8. I can wait to get the coin together for a BT Kit. Still can't figure out why the transverse guys are making so much power compared to the longitude TFSI engines.

[Alex1188]

The Stage II seems to make quite a bit of torque. I can roll on all kinds of folks at +6000 Ft. MSL with my B8. I can wait to get the coin together for a BT Kit. Still can't figure out why the transverse guys are making so much power compared to the longitude TFSI engines.

It because they have more of a market, so APR spend more time developing and fine tuning on that plateform. If you look at the number of revisions on that plateform compared to the B8 you can see.

[auditd0rk]

... I can roll on all kinds of folks at +6000 Ft. MSL with my B8.

These cars are quite fun up in the mountains.

[Jake@JHM]

Speaking of tunes.... You guys a JHM need to get with the B8 movement and start making tunes so you can beat my APR Stage 2+ 1/4 mile time, so then i can buy your tune!

Maybe also make a k04 kit of your own?!

Haha,

we are working on the B7 2.0T, so the B8 naturally comes next!

You have a PM.

Jake

[cory_can]

Speaking of tunes.... You guys a JHM need to get with the B8 movement and start making tunes so you can beat my APR Stage 2+ 1/4 mile time, so then i can buy your tune!

Maybe also make a k04 kit of your own?!

How many times do we have to have this conversation .....my Stage 2 Avant was only 0.05 slower and only 1/2 mph slower on PUMP gas.....you need to go back to track and do MUCH better than 13.54 on MS109

[Alex1188]

Haha!! no Cory now you unleashed a new beast with the K04 so now i gotta beat you with that!

*Plus im pretty sure my K03 wastegate actuator was already pretty much toast when i did that pass! A win is a win, weather it was .000001 or .05 Hahaha!

[cory_can]

Haha,

we are working on the B7 2.0T, so the B8 naturally comes next!

You have a PM.

Jake

Jake, 'the Count' knows where to find me when you start talking B8 K04 (or larger) tuning

[Jake@JHM]

Jake, 'the Count' knows where to find me when you start talking B8 K04 (or larger) tuning

Cory,

I am well aware . In due time though!

Jake

[Ajp428]

Just wondering you know how the 2013 B8.5 2.0T came out with an increased amount of HP stock over the b8 2.0T are those number on APR's website still equal throughout the 2.0T's or would the B8's numbers be less than that.

[TCHUN003]

I think APR or eurocode explained why transverse engines can make more power than longitudinal. Definitely not because there is more of a market for transverse engines. Something about how transverse engines are set up to dump the exhaust gasses out faster? lol don't quote me on that.

[Alex1188]

I think APR or eurocode explained why transverse engines can make more power than longitudinal. Definitely not because there is more of a market for transverse engines. Something about how transverse engines are set up to dump the exhaust gasses out faster? lol don't quote me on that.

Its the same motor?? use all the same parts, and are pretty much all interchangable minus some pipes and crap because the angles they go, the turbo is exactly the same minus their discharge tube bends and ours is straight, the manifold is the same. the only difference in the heads is the VW doesnt have the high lift actuators its just a set lift for the valves, so idk how they could get gases out faster than with out a high lift system... dont make sense to me, if anything our cars should be able to dump gases quicker...

The biggest thing is there are way more manual transmissions for the vw transverse motors. Our biggest down fall is the high number of Tip trannys so APR doesnt look at us as much because in the end there is a Bigger market to sell to for the transverse vw platform, i think JHM should dyno their B7 tune that is running LOW 13s and i bet its making alot more HP and TQ than APRs tune for our car and its probably close to if not more than the transverse engine...

[TCHUN003]

I dunno Alex, it was definitely either CTS, APR, or Eurocode that explained it. Shoot them a pm or maybe they'll even chime in on this thread. Made sense at the time I read their response.

[b4a41point8t]

I dunno Alex, it was definitely either CTS, APR, or Eurocode that explained it. Shoot them a pm or maybe they'll even chime in on this thread. Made sense at the time I read their response.

Hey Tchun, are you going K04? You're TIP, right? Any worries about the tranny?

[cory_can]

I've done many repeated 3-3.5K launches at the track with my K04 and a TIP, and no issues.

[TCHUN003]

Hey Tchun, are you going K04? You're TIP, right? Any worries about the tranny?

I'm getting a Frankenturbo F23L when they get appropriate software. ETA as far as I know is beginning of next year. Not worried about the trans, and they have been tuning for guys who have stock rods, so they're holding the tune back yet still making great power. If you build your engine like Mike did, the F23L can make pretty impressive usable power.

[Jake@JHM]

Its the same motor?? use all the same parts, and are pretty much all interchangable minus some pipes and crap because the angles they go, the turbo is exactly the same minus their discharge tube bends and ours is straight, the manifold is the same. the only difference in the heads is the VW doesnt have the high lift actuators its just a set lift for the valves, so idk how they could get gases out faster than with out a high lift system... dont make sense to me, if anything our cars should be able to dump gases quicker...

The biggest thing is there are way more manual transmissions for the vw transverse motors. Our biggest down fall is the high number of Tip trannys so APR doesnt look at us as much because in the end there is a Bigger market to sell to for the transverse vw platform, i think JHM should dyno their B7 tune that is running LOW 13s and i bet its making alot more HP and TQ than APRs tune for our car and its probably close to if not more than the transverse engine...

lol SHH!

[TCHUN003]

When we are talking about stage 1 and 2, the longitudinal engine makes more power than the transverse. Which makes sense that jhm's a4 would be faster than a transverse engine. However, when u go ko4, it seems that the transverse engine is capable of making more power. Again, I forget the exact reason behind this, but the experts would be able to answer your question better. I used to think the same thing as you Alex. Why does the T make more with the K04 than the L if they're the same engine, just positioned differenty? I wish I bookmarked the thread I found the answer on, but it wasn't too important to me at the time. IIRC, same concept applies to the frankenturbo. The transverse engines were able to squeeze out more power than the longitudinal engines when they were developing custom tunes.

[Alex1188]

The Stage II seems to make quite a bit of torque. I can roll on all kinds of folks at +6000 Ft. MSL with my B8. I can wait to get the coin together for a BT Kit. Still can't figure out why the transverse guys are making so much power compared to the longitude TFSI engines.

Heres your differences, didnt know you guys were talking about the S3, Golf R, and TTS motors which are completely different motors and trans...

"a reinforced block, a new head (in aluminum-silicon alloy), strengthened innards, a big-vane Garrett variable turbocharger, and the requisite remapping." (Motor Trend)

Link...
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...s_first_drive/

Now if you actually look at the same motor turned sideways in a GTI, Golf, Jetta, GLI, or A3 You'll see that the A4 actually makes more power because it has the Valve Lift System on stage 1 & 2 but if you look at K04 yes transverse makes more power but like i said look at how smooth the torque and hp curves are, DUE TO MORE DEMAND FOR THAT PLATFORM AND MORE REVISIONS... Look at the number of guys with K04s on this forum compared to GTIs or Golfs, alot more! Not to mention the number of different vehicles the transverse is in and how much cheaper it is to buy a Golf or GTI, more of those cars sold then A4/A5 for sure, so it all comes down to a bigger market for the transverse compared to the A4/A5...

Oh and as far as a custom tune that Frankenturbo did... heck a dyno on a different day could make alot of difference in power...

ITS NOT ABOUT HP OR TORQUE, ITS ABOUT HOW FAST YOU GET THERE!

GTI Crank K04...



A4 Crank K04...

[DJ_AudiA4]

So i've raced this guy a few more times and i've pulled on him everytime, but like most people who don't understand tuning and think bigger engine means faster, he alwasy seems to have an excuse. Bad start, wrong gear and the best was "i didn't know we were gonna pull i let off the throttle right after i jumped" had to explain what turbo lag was. Sometimes i wish he would just go back to owning Hondas. Anyways we set up a race we're gonna go to willow springs and do best out of 3.

No more excuses VICTORY IS MINE!!

I also just purchased CTS FMIC, EC Rotamass pulley, new coil packs and NGK spark plugs. 034 transmission mount bushing and Apikol rear diff mount. oh and i'll be running 100oct APR map at 2300+ft of elevation...

[BaysideS4]

B6 S4s are pigs. Been there.