Stumbled upon this in the B6 section...

[Seerlah]

Guess what's on my Christmas wish list

http://www.performancebyie.com/pin

Forget the dowel pin. Issue is, I still want to keep my A/C. Us AWM guys seem to just get left in the dark. But I think there is a B5 member who may be able to help us with this situation.

[thenj3]

Ill be buying that when its rebuild time

[Gumby]

I saw that too. I want one, I just really don't wanna have to get a new fluidamper. But at least I don't have a/c to worry about.

[mkturbo3]

what can be done to keep AC very interested in this!

[Seerlah]

Forum member is going to try and machine an adapter for us. Something like this...

[IMG][/IMG]

I asked IE if they could make one numerous times, but they don't seem to fond in pursuing this. Guess not enough profit gain when comparing to R&D.

[howardfootball]

I'm looking forward to this as well

[s3apra4]

Forum member is going to try and machine an adapter for us. Something like this...

[IMG][/IMG]

I asked IE if they could make one numerous times, but they don't seem to fond in pursuing this. Guess not enough profit gain when comparing to R&D.

I have been asking machine shops in my area if they could do this for years. (For an AEB motor) I found that the cost tends to be almost double what the fluidamper costs. Seems high. Now if there was an order of multiple it might be more cost effective.
On the other hand if a B5 member can do this! Count me in.

[Seerlah]

I'm looking forward to this as well

PMd a member who has a spare B7 damper, in hopes of picking it up from him. And did a quick check in my garage and could not find an extra stock AWM damper. I'll have to do a thorough inspection to confirm. If I don't have one, I don't mind at all sourcing a used one for cheap. I do have an extra AWM crank gear, though. So that is a plus. One piece out of the puzzle.

[thenj3]

i might have an extra laying around. let me know if you cant find one

[Seerlah]

Will def do.

[Poopie]

If some one helps me with the specs I can draw it up in solidworks and see if my machinist can make them. He works out of his own shop at his house so the overhead is low. Quality is excellent.

[A1 A2 German]

Seerlah, can you keep me in the loop.

I'm actually making an 06A alternator drop down set for myself as we speak, it uses the 06A transverse accessory bracket which does not fit, but does ;) and drops the alternator all the way down next to the p/s pump. Also, allowing to also cut the bracket in half and toss it. It's with a 06A and fluid dampener and was going to be working using ac too keeping it in the 058 passenger side configuration, yet.....well....different.

The alt drop down is in the works, if this extension is available soon I'll maybe skip my ac with fluid dampener mod and go this route. Any kinda of time frame?

[GOODBYNAAIR]

hmm is a shame i just rebuilt my head and have fresh new timing everything. This would have been nice to add on once its moded. Mitch keep me in too on this ill put it on the my do list.

[Seerlah]

People who posted in this thread are in the "know". It is the people who posted in this thread who are going to get it done, believe it or not. That drawing above was actually made by nynoah. He may chime in this thread when he sees it, as he wants it too. We have the will, we have the way. So, let's get it done. My idea, nynoah's drawing to portray what I meant (posted in the IE new release thread, and was ignored), parts supplied by us for R&D (collectively we do indeed have all the parts), howardfootball who said he can make them, and now poopie who is also on board. Let's get it done.

But in relation to this thread, a new direction need to be taken. The initial idea was for the stock crank gear and 06A fluidampr. But this IE crank gear is just too good of an item to be overlooked. So now, new directions will be necessary. But should not be a big deal. If I get my hands on the B7 A4 damper, then there really should be no reason it would not resemble the fluidampr. But...someone (probably will be me) will also need to pick up this crank gear for more R&D for a more universal application design. One to work on the stock gear, 06a fluidampr, the billet crank gear made by IE, and the B7 fluidampr. I would take a guess and say the only thing that would make things differ are the actual location of the mounting holes on the crank gear.

[spindoctor]

Interested in this as I'm collecting parts for my 1.9L EFR build(058 block).

[MetalMan]

So that basic Paint picture doesn't really account for the size/shape of the Fluidampr (at least from the pictures I've seen of the 1.8T Fluidampr).

I went through some various pictures of the Fluidampr and sort of extrapolated its shape. Then I came up with a guess of how the AC pulley could/should look.

The Fluidampr has a lip that sticks out where we would put an AC pulley. IMO we should use that lip (assuming it has a near-zero runout relative to the center bore) as a locating feature for the AC pulley to ride on. By doing so, this would also allow for the AC pulley to be a bit thinner/weaker, since the AC pulley wouldn't need to support all of the radial load from the AC belt through the 4 pulley bolts (the Fluidampr would bear most of that load). The 4 bolts would still be used to prevent rotation of the pulley, though.



Thoughts? I a mechanical engineer by degree/work, so I think about this sort of stuff all the time and would be happy to share ideas.

[Seerlah]

That drawing above was just a quick sketch he put together so IE would understand what we were requesting them to make. They didn't comprehend at first. I have never held a fluidampr in my hands, so I am in the dark on how it is actually designed. But any and all input is appreciated. Seeing how you are a mechanical engineer, your opinion is more than valued here. But now that you brought that up, this questions if can even be done. And a fluidampr for R&D is the only way to get that done.

For starters, I can pick up the B7 stock damper. I want to see if it will bolt up to the stock crank gear (I have one) using the 4 holes. If so, the A/C pulley (one we want to make) still would only need those 4 bolt holes whether using the billet crank gear in the first post with the B7 fluidampr (can even use the 06a or 058 fluidampr if so), or the stock crank gear (4 should suffice...hopefully). That billet crank gear is a replica of the stock B7 unit, except machined to a very tight fit on the crankshaft. After that, a fluidampr would be necessary to proceed (stock B5 damper is now useless, since the provided info by MetalMan). Seeing how IE stated that the billet gear fits an 06A, I would conjecture the only difference between the 06A and 06B fluidampr would be the actual mounting holes. Hence, why I want to pick up the B7 stock damper (cheaper than a fluidamper).

And you guys need to know stuff like this is not an overnight thing. The whole Treadstone TR18T thing took about a year before it was ready for sale. Not that any of us are trying to make any money off this (if any mods see this, this is something we need and none of use are here to try and sell stuff), but the time process is not as short as a couple weeks. Or even like 2 months. I'm sure we all work, so that also takes time away. But collectively we can get this done.

And for you 058 guys, this is what is necessary to run the 06A fludampr. There is no 058 fluidampr on the market.

courtesy of Issam

Fluidampr 1.8T Crank pulley
INA Crank spacer - 16V/AEB 20V
INA H20 pulley
ABA Alternator & bracket (if you have it) or our ABF kit
ABA accessory belt if ABA usage or 6PK-894 belt if ABF usage.

[Seerlah]

B7 2.0 stock harmonic balancer (damper) just purchased on ebay for $35 shipped. Cool part, I can resell it and get my money back after confirming if it bolts to the stock crank gear or not.

[BaseDrifter]

Interested in this as well!

[melomandn]

Interested in this as well!

x2 this would be awesome

[Seerlah]

If I had to take a guess, I would say the only difference between the 058 and 06a damper is how far they stick out (alignment purposes). The accessory belt is 5 ribbed and the ac belt is 4 ribbed on both. I drew this conclusion from the 058 guys being able to use the 06a fluidampr as long as you use a proper sized shim to space it out. Other than that, I really can't think of any other differences.

Now, I need to find out what is the difference between the 06a and 06b stock damper (as far as the serpentine portion and mounting goes). Looks like I will actually be needing the stock AWM damper after all. And is it just me, or does the fluidampr seem to be 6 ribbed?

[Seerlah]

Just called up IE and was asking some questions. Seems the only difference between the 06a and 06b fluidampr is a 4 bolt vs 6 bolt mounting hole. He was saying that you should not run the 06a fluidampr with the billet timing crank gear (06b designed). But really, it makes no difference. We always had 4 bolts anyways. So, now we know a little bit more. And that being that the only difference between the 06a and 06b timing gear is the number of mounting holes. That is if the information he gave me was the only difference. Not trying to spend money on an 06b crank gear to find out.

[A1 A2 German]

I have the 06A fluid dampener off the car if specs are needed. I'd be willing to ship it for the fabercator in mention with maybe some kinda deposit (as it's $400) was left.

[Seerlah]

More and more stuff I find out. When fluidampr made their unit for the 06A, I don't think they had the AWM in their minds at all. It was not really designed for that. I was looking at various pictures online, and it is really meant for the B6 (AMB). I kept on getting stumped on the 5 rib stock units versus the 6 ribbed fluidampr. Well, the stock AMB damper is 6 ribbed. Go figure. No biggie, though.

I have the 06A fluid dampener off the car if specs are needed. I'd be willing to ship it for the fabercator in mention with maybe some kinda deposit (as it's $400) was left.

Perfect. Then I'll pick up the billet gear. And totally understandable about the deposit. Far from a cheap product.

But wait, when you going to put the car back together? The person making these will most likely need to hold onto the items for a bit (he posted in this thread, and poopie said he has a guy who can also make them). I personally won't be buying that billet gear till I get a discount. Guess it's the cheapo in me.

[A1 A2 German]

You (they ) can hold to it till at least through January.

[Seerlah]

Cool.

We need people involved to chime in to get a parts list, time frame, cost ($?), and so forth. But this is what I gather we need:

-stock damper (thenj3 has one)
-B7 TFSI damper (I just ordered one off ebay)
-stock crank gear (I have one)
-IE billet crank gear (I'll order this during sales)
-stock crank bolt (I have one)
-06A fluidampr (A1 A2 German has one)
-06B fluidampr (not sure if needed for testing if only difference is the number of bolt holes.)
-a/c belt (I have one)

And to be on the same page, we want the unit to do these things (add to list if you have more ideas)

-access to crank bolt (be able to rotate engine manually)
-be used with the stock crank/timing gear and 06A fluidampr
-be used with the IE billet crank/timing gear (TFSI) and 06A or 06B fluidampr

And you 058 guys know what is necessary to run the 06a fluidampr (I posted it before also). So figure you just need longer mounting bolts to account for the added shim/spacer.

[A1 A2 German]

If there's the possibilty of using the push press 6 bolt billet crank gear with the 4 bolt 06A dampener I'm game, even if that means adding 2 holes to the dampaner.

I have to buy regaurdless a:

-2 dowel pin 4 bolt crank gear

or a

-6 bolt billet crank gear

Till we figure this out it's up in the air.

[Seerlah]

If the IE guy was accurate about the only difference between the TFSI and 06A fluidampr is the number of mounting holes, then there is no reason the 4 bolt fluidampr would not work on the TFSI billet gear. I am wanting to go the same route because I feel the 06A one would be easier to resell if necessary than the TFSI one. I bought the stock TFSI damper off ebay (bought a little while ago, and just need to wait for it to come in) just to see if it will bolt to the stock crank gear. If so, that helps in letting us know how versatile it can get. At that point, I am going to resell it (will compare it to the B5 one to confirm first) and we use thenj3's stock B5 damper for R&D. Should not make a difference at that point.

I texted thenj3 and going to see if he can send me his extra stock b5 damper. Then I'll buy the TFSI billet gear as soon as it goes on sale (should be like 2 weeks or so for Christmas). Then I'll see how mounting it to the stock B5 damper goes (thenj3's damper). If everything can be bolted down in all configurations, then the adapter should be that much more easier to make.

[A1 A2 German]

I think the issue maybe, the 6 hole vs 4 hole, is the offset of the holes in relation to each other.

[Seerlah]

That is why I bought the TFSI stock damper. Only one way to find out. I already have a spare AWM timing gear (holes don't differ between the 058 and 06a) and just need to wait for the TFSI damper to come in.

[A1 A2 German]

Version 1: Seen below

Version 2: Parts just ordered right now, think I nailed it for the alternator drop down kit.

I have just about spare of most things, working on trying to get a burnt/bad/ruined AC compressor for simple test fits. The spare ac compressor bracket, bolts, and tensor just arrived.












This'll be pretty awesome with this AC system we have in the works

[terraflata]

I just sent an e-mail to Fluidampr. It went something like this

"Hi there. I am writing to you concerning development for a Fluidampr to work with 058 blocked 1.8T's for VW and Audi applications. The Fluidampr for the 06A block is indeed a great product, but us tuners with the 058 block have been left in the dark. We are currently trying to pool together our forum resources in order to develop an adapter to make this work which can be found here (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...the-B6-section).

I would imagine the request has already been made for such a product, and perhaps at the time it was not profitable. But now more than ever would be the time. The generation with these engines has become more and more affordable and the modifications have risen equally. IE (Integrated Engineering) has just released a Billet Timing Gear (http://www.performancebyie.com/pin) and if a damper could be made to work with this gear on an 058 block it would provide a bulletproof solution that was not available before. The demand is here. If making said damper is not in your interest I would still request any Technical data you could provide to better enable us to fabricate an adapter. Thank you in advance.

Bryan"

Never know.

[terraflata]

Received a response from Fluidampr.

"Hi Bryan,



Thank you for your interest in Fluidampr products and services.


I did review the thread and I understand the interest and need for a Fluidampr.


I have forwarded your email to our engineering team for review. I will see if we can either modify an existing unit or develop a new unit. At minimum I can at least provide customer drawings of our damper that will help the process if we cannot develop a solution.



I will be out of the office, traveling to the PRI show in Indy, the remainder of the week. I will get back to you after discussing with engineering.



Thank you again.





Regards,



Ivan Snyder III http://www.concieo.se/wp-content/the...llLinkedin.png

Fluidampr

Sales-W/D Account Mgr.

716-995-6232

[email protected] "

[silverman]

It makes me happy that people are still progressing the B5 world, as much as it has tapered off on the forums in the recent years.

[Seerlah]

Well, TFSI damper does not bolt up to the B5 crank gear. Seems this project may be more difficult than anticipated...or not. The adapter would just need mounting holes to accomodate for both the TFSI and AEB/ATW/AWM crank gear. Small hurdle, I suppose. Anyways, listing the TFSI damper for sale in the classified section unless you guys think I should hold onto it for a bit longer. At this point, I think having the TFSI crank gear would be better than the damper. I plan on picking up the billet one anyways, so that should solve that issue.

[walky_talky20]

1. Has anyone talked with Integrated Engineering about offering a press-fit crank gear with 4 holes instead of 6?

Seems like that would interest the B6 guys as well, as they wouldn't have to chase down TFSI dampers to install the thing. Not to mention any guys that already have 06A fluidamprs. A press-fit crank gear drilled and tapped with 4-holes would open the door to more sales as it would then make it a bolt-in part for an entire generation of A4's.

The side effect of that offering would be that it would greatly simplify the adapter being talked about in this thread. 1 version of the adapter would then work to retain A/C when installing a fluidampr on an AWM *in addition* to also working for the 058 guys. The 058 currently has no 6-bolt crank gear option, and the only commercially available fluidampr solution is a spacer with 4 holes in it.

So I think there is a lot of reasons to keep this thing a 4-bolt affair. Everybody who would be interested in the adapter already has a 4-bolt arrangement on their car. The 6-bolt limitation makes this messy and not as widely usable. But this requires getting IE on board with making a 4-bolt version of their gear - which should be trivial I would think.

2. 6 ribs, you say? I assume 5 of the ribs line up "on the money" for a stock AWM install? And the 6th rib hangs off unused. Big problem if the unused rib is out front (toward the radiator). That's going to impinge on your A/C belt alignment. The belts are really close on an AWM (looks to be exactly 1 rib width, actually):


www.ecstuning.com/ES10437/

If the space the A/C belt needs to ride is taken by the 6th rib of the accessory belt, you'd either need to machine the fluidampr to fit the adapter, or oversize the A/C pulley - to ride overtop of the obstruction. Borrowing MetalMan's artwork, here is what I mean:



But now you're over-driving the compressor a little bit. Not a lot, but some.

[A1 A2 German]

I'm trying to find a junk yard dog dirt cheap ac compressor for mock testing. Even if fried or burnt to a crisp I don't care, I'll pay shipping, if someone has one send it my way....I can return it down the road as it will not be used no matter what anyways and only for test fits.

I believe we maybe able to shim the compressor out, to line or adjust to any changes.

[A1 A2 German]

Any updates?

[nynoah]

Ok there is really no reason to get the 6 bolt B7 gear. There is a 4 bolt just like stock IE gear that has a dowl pin. A lot of people have it already. If you want to sell this product to many people, then don't make it uber niche by making anyone buy a 6 hole crank gear.

2nd no overlapping craziness, that will overdrive the AC unit. And it is physically not possible with the accessory belt either. We just need the adapter that fits on the end. Minimize the space as much as possible but it is not as big of a deal as you think. Run a smaller width belt from a Passat or use the extended AC pulley from a V6. Either solution works.

[Seerlah]

This thread started from the press fit crank gear. The dowel pinned units have been around for a while, and IE is not the only company on the market that sells them. It is about having the press fit gear so no dowel pin would be necessary, fluidampr, and pulley for the A/C compressor. The TFSI damper is a dead issue, as I confirmed it does not bolt to the stock 4 bolt crank gear. Current obstacle was finding out how universal the adapter could be made. And as of now, I'm just waiting on an update to tarraflata's posts. Should determine the next move.