Checking oil level..

[mistral cytz]

Stupid question..

But when do you guys with B6/B7 S4s check your oil level, when the engine is cold or warm?

I've only had my S4 for a couple weeks so have been checking the oil very often since I'm new to the car.
So today I checked my oil while the motor was warm and it indicated very low on the dip stick, basically below the minimum line. (I checked it several times to make sure and the motor had also been shut off for at least 5 minutes when I was checking it)

So I quickly added maybe 0.4 liters (At the most) that I had left in the trunk and drove immediately to buy some more oil. I checked it several times again outside the auto parts store before I bought more oil after the motor had been turned off for another 5 minutes and it now indicated slightly above the max fill line.

[dparm]

The proper procedure, per Audi:

Start the engine and let it run for 3-5 minutes. Turn off the engine. Wait 3 minutes. Check the dipstick. Add oil as needed.

[SlickFix]

Rule #1: There are no stupid questions when you are new to the S4.

Rule #2: Learn to use the search function on this forum in order to prevent grumpy replies from the vets here.

Welcome aboard, mistral. It's common courtesy to post a couple pics of your new ride here, so let's see what you bought!

[mistral cytz]

The proper procedure, per Audi:

Start the engine and let it run for 3-5 minutes. Turn off the engine. Wait 3 minutes. Check the dipstick. Add oil as needed.

Yeah that's basically how I have been checking it. I was just shocked to see basically a really LOW oil level today. I guess I may have to just leave it alone to see if the Yellow low oil level light comes on to confirm what I'm reading is actually low. Probably one of the more inaccurate car oil dip sticks to read. Was confusing how the oil went from very low to above the max fill line after adding a mere 0.4 liters. This increases my suspicion that when I checked the oil level warm today it was wrong for some reason.

[mistral cytz]

Rule #1: There are no stupid questions when you are new to the S4.

Rule #2: Learn to use the search function on this forum in order to prevent grumpy replies from the vets here.

Welcome aboard, mistral. It's common courtesy to post a couple pics of your new ride here, so let's see what you bought!

Thanks for the welcome. I actually don't have any good pics to post yet since I've only had my S4 for a few weeks. I do have this video I made of my exhaust (magnaflow) but I have since done piggie pipes so it sounds much nicer!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgfL5DN6ikY

[dparm]

Yeah that's basically how I have been checking it. I was just shocked to see basically a really LOW oil level today. I guess I may have to just leave it alone to see if the Yellow low oil level light comes on to confirm what I'm reading is actually low. Probably one of the more inaccurate car oil dip sticks to read. Was confusing how the oil went from very low to above the max fill line after adding a mere 0.4 liters. This increases my suspicion that when I checked the oil level warm today it was wrong for some reason.

How is it an inaccurate dipstick to read? There is a "minimum" dot, a cross-hatched "OK" zone, and a "maximum" dot. You want it in the cross-hatched zone.

[mistral cytz]

How is it an inaccurate dipstick to read? There is a "minimum" dot, a cross-hatched "OK" zone, and a "maximum" dot. You want it in the cross-hatched zone.

The dipstick has clear markings yes, but what I meant to say was the oil level is hard to read since while warm, it is too thin to show an accurate reading. Maybe my oil is just too clean and as result clear to really show up since I just changed it last week. Checking it cold is easy so I'll be checking it both warm and cold and averaging the two out to get a better idea.

I feel like a total rookie asking such as basic question since I do full brake jobs and suspension/exhaust replacements on my cars all the time and definitely know how to check oil haha. I guess I'm just being paranoid since the car is new to me and I know the 4.2s are prone to burning oil due to a couple reasons.

[dparm]

I wouldn't obsess over the exact level too much. As long as you're in the OK zone, you're fine. The sump is huge and being down a 1/2 quart will not make much difference.

[mistral cytz]

I wouldn't obsess over the exact level too much. As long as you're in the OK zone, you're fine. The sump is huge and being down a 1/2 quart will not make much difference.

Thanks for the replies Dparm. I've read through your oil right ups so you seem like the best person to ask. What is a typical amount of oil to burn over say 1000k miles? I think I came across some info from Audi that states up to 1 quart ever 1000k miles can be considered normal, but wondering if you knew what sort of the average was? My car has about 50k miles on it.

Thanks

[LJH]

Oil consumption is all over the road in these cars. I have heard stories of people getting 5-600 miles on a quart and then my car uses 1 quart every 5K mile OCI at 88K miles. Did you do a PPI with a compression and leak down test?


Cheers,
Jim

[dparm]

Thanks for the replies Dparm. I've read through your oil right ups so you seem like the best person to ask. What is a typical amount of oil to burn over say 1000k miles? I think I came across some info from Audi that states up to 1 quart ever 1000k miles can be considered normal, but wondering if you knew what sort of the average was? My car has about 50k miles on it.

Thanks

There is no "typical" amount. Just look for consistent consumption. Some cars need nothing between oil changes, others might need a full quart.

[mistral cytz]

Oil consumption is all over the road in these cars. I have heard stories of people getting 5-600 miles on a quart and then my car uses 1 quart every 5K mile OCI at 88K miles. Did you do a PPI with a compression and leak down test?


Cheers,
Jim

No I have not had this done. I figured since it's a 1 owner car with all dealer service records up to date and still has under 50k that this wouldn't be an issue to check for but I guess I will now.

Would a low oil level warning light be stored as a fault code? I scanned the car with Vagcom and didn't see any codes but they could have also been cleared in the past. I'm just thinking that if the car burned excessive oil the previous owner would have had that fault show up before.

[blaelock]

No I have not had this done. I figured since it's a 1 owner car with all dealer service records up to date and still has under 50k that this wouldn't be an issue to check for but I guess I will now.

Would a low oil level warning light be stored as a fault code? I scanned the car with Vagcom and didn't see any codes but they could have also been cleared in the past. I'm just thinking that if the car burned excessive oil the previous owner would have had that fault show up before.

I recently purchased an immaculate 2005 B6 S4 from it's original owner. He claimed it was consuming a quart of oil for every thousand miles driven which was I fine with. A week or so after buying the car, I surmised that the real oil consumption was around 1 quart every 250 miles. There were no stored fault codes for the oil consumption. I recently had Audi diagnose the problem and perform over $10,000 of work. I got the car back and within two weeks, it was down over a quart of oil again in less than 750 miles traveled. I've since opened an inquiry with Audi of America, but that's another story.

I find the dipstick to be a bit hard to read when I try to measure the oil level using the procedure outlined in the manual. There's oil all over the place even after you wipe it off and reinsert it. A tech at Audi told me to unscrew the oil filler cap prior to checking the level so the oil can drain down. I find waiting a few extra minutes after shutoff makes it much easier to read. I also frequently check my oil level cold (just for reference) and it's extremely easy to read then, although the level isn't necessarily accurate.

[dparm]

As long as you check it in a consistent manner, I would not worry. Being down a tad on oil isn't a problem.

[mistral cytz]

I recently purchased an immaculate 2005 B6 S4 from it's original owner. He claimed it was consuming a quart of oil for every thousand miles driven which was I fine with. A week or so after buying the car, I surmised that the real oil consumption was around 1 quart every 250 miles. There were no stored fault codes for the oil consumption. I recently had Audi diagnose the problem and perform over $10,000 of work. I got the car back and within two weeks, it was down over a quart of oil again in less than 750 miles traveled. I've since opened an inquiry with Audi of America, but that's another story.

I find the dipstick to be a bit hard to read when I try to measure the oil level using the procedure outlined in the manual. There's oil all over the place even after you wipe it off and reinsert it. A tech at Audi told me to unscrew the oil filler cap prior to checking the level so the oil can drain down. I find waiting a few extra minutes after shutoff makes it much easier to read. I also frequently check my oil level cold (just for reference) and it's extremely easy to read then, although the level isn't necessarily accurate.

Great info!

I agree with checking the oil cold in addition to warm every now and then to get an average of the two. I would expect to see the oil level showing slightly lower on a cold motor reading compared to a warm motor oil level reading?

If the compression was low enough to be leaking so much oil to burn at that rate, I would assume other signs would appear like power loss and starting problems? Either way, I'll be checking often.

[blaelock]

Great info!

I agree with checking the oil cold in addition to warm every now and then to get an average of the two. I would expect to see the oil level showing slightly lower on a cold motor reading compared to a warm motor oil level reading?

If the compression was low enough to be leaking so much oil to burn at that rate, I would assume other signs would appear like power loss and starting problems? Either way, I'll be checking often.

I can't comment on the difference between cold and warm. I would imagine it might read a bit lower when cold but I can't say for sure. I was recently reading another thread around here somewhere that made an effort to explain it.

The main culprit behind my oil consumption was failed valve stem seals according to Audi. The car exhibited absolutely no other symptoms pointing to oil consumption. No exhaust smoke, no detectable power loss, nothing coming out of the exhaust. The car passed the California emissions test while burning a quart every 250 miles without issue.

[mistral cytz]

I can't comment on the difference between cold and warm. I would imagine it might read a bit lower when cold but I can't say for sure. I was recently reading another thread around here somewhere that made an effort to explain it.

The main culprit behind my oil consumption was failed valve stem seals according to Audi. The car exhibited absolutely no other symptoms pointing to oil consumption. No exhaust smoke, no detectable power loss, nothing coming out of the exhaust. The car passed the California emissions test while burning a quart every 250 miles without issue.

Wow! That is amazing regarding the lack of symptoms and emission testing. I guess as long as the oil is being burnt off before it reaches the cats, it shouldn't clog them up and reduce the emission reductions. What was the mileage on your motor?
Thanks.

[blaelock]

Wow! That is amazing regarding the lack of symptoms and emission testing. I guess as long as the oil is being burnt off before it reaches the cats, it shouldn't clog them up and reduce the emission reductions. What was the mileage on your motor?
Thanks.

I know. The engine was literally drinking oil. You could see it pooling on top of the intake valves when the manifold was removed. I have 133,000 miles. I bought the car with complete service records since new, from the original owner who employed borderline fanatical maintenance and care practices. Still got screwed but I have no recourse, so I'll just be patient until it's fixed properly.

[dparm]

I can't comment on the difference between cold and warm. I would imagine it might read a bit lower when cold but I can't say for sure. I was recently reading another thread around here somewhere that made an effort to explain it.

Oil level will read higher when cold because a lot of the oil that was in the galleries, filter, nooks & crannies, etc. will have dripped back down into the pan.

[mistral cytz]

I know. The engine was literally drinking oil. You could see it pooling on top of the intake valves when the manifold was removed. I have 133,000 miles. I bought the car with complete service records since new, from the original owner who employed borderline fanatical maintenance and care practices. Still got screwed but I have no recourse, so I'll just be patient until it's fixed properly.

It seems regular maintenance especially if it's from the dealer with their every 10k mile oil changes isn't enough for these cars. I hope I'm not burning oil excessively but I still have found no explanation as to why my car was virtually showing dangerously low oil but then after adding barely 0.5 quarts brought it to above the max fill line.

Anyways, hope you get it all sorted out.

[blaelock]

Oil level will read higher when cold because a lot of the oil that was in the galleries, filter, nooks & crannies, etc. will have dripped back down into the pan.

Makes perfect sense, thank you for clarifying.

It seems regular maintenance especially if it's from the dealer with their every 10k mile oil changes isn't enough for these cars. I hope I'm not burning oil excessively but I still have found no explanation as to why my car was virtually showing dangerously low oil but then after adding barely 0.5 quarts brought it to above the max fill line.

Anyways, hope you get it all sorted out.

I have records of the oil being changed on average every 5,000 and you can see from the overall condition of the car that it was cared for but I suppose things happen. I appreciate the positive encouragement. This isn't my first European car so I've had many headaches before, just none as irritating as this one. I'm anxious to have this one issue addressed so I can move on to tackling other things I want to do with the car.

[mistral cytz]

Makes perfect sense, thank you for clarifying.



I have records of the oil being changed on average every 5,000 and you can see from the overall condition of the car that it was cared for but I suppose things happen. I appreciate the positive encouragement. This isn't my first European car so I've had many headaches before, just none as irritating as this one. I'm anxious to have this one issue addressed so I can move on to tackling other things I want to do with the car.

Oil changes and warm up time before driving with a heavy load on the engine is key, but every car has it's weakness. I left the 4 cylinder turbo world for what I'm hoping will be a consistently reliable power plant without having to worry about boost spikes and leaks and AF ratios on smaller turbo engines.

[blaelock]

Oil changes and warm up time before driving with a heavy load on the engine is key, but every car has it's weakness. I left the 4 cylinder turbo world for what I'm hoping will be a consistently reliable power plant without having to worry about boost spikes and leaks and AF ratios on smaller turbo engines.

I left the inline 6 world and I miss it. Every previous vehicle I owned had an inline 6 before this and I must say they were relatively simple, easy to work on and very reliable.

[beamon]

You will notice after driving the 4.2 v8 for months to years, you can hear in the tone of the engine sound when it needs more oil...i can tell when i am 1/2 a quart down...that is when you truly have become one with the car. Hopefully you will reach this stage my young Jedi.

[mistral cytz]

You will notice after driving the 4.2 v8 for months to years, you can hear in the tone of the engine sound when it needs more oil...i can tell when i am 1/2 a quart down...that is when you truly have become one with the car. Hopefully you will reach this stage my young Jedi.

I hope to develop this skill someday!

[1SICRS4]

According to the manual for my B7 RS4 it can consume .5q every 600mi. I haven't seen a manual for the S4 so I can't comment. Seems about right considering I did a change about 1k ago and I was in the add a quart zone today aka (c) below harsh marks. I am not very pleased with the high consumption of these engines especially with the cost of the Motul 502 specific I use in my car but I guess it is what it is.

[mistral cytz]

Oil level will read higher when cold because a lot of the oil that was in the galleries, filter, nooks & crannies, etc. will have dripped back down into the pan.

Definitely NOT the case for my car. When I check it cold it's about half way up the hash mark and when I check it the way Audi states at operating temperature it shows completely full! Synthetic oil expands a noticeable amount apparently.

[dparm]

Definitely NOT the case for my car. When I check it cold it's about half way up the hash mark and when I check it the way Audi states at operating temperature it shows completely full! Synthetic oil expands a noticeable amount apparently.

Synthetic oil does not expand like that.

Just check it in a consistent manner and you'll be fine.

[mistral cytz]

My manual does not state how many quarts/liters are referenced from the min to max line on the dip stick so I'm not really sure what the variance is but all I can accurately see is that when the motor is stone cold the oil level is barely half way up the hash marks and while warm and operating state it's completely full.

Perhaps various oils behave in different ways but I'll continue to check the same as always.

[dparm]

My manual does not state how many quarts/liters are referenced from the min to max line on the dip stick so I'm not really sure what the variance is but all I can accurately see is that when the motor is stone cold the oil level is barely half way up the hash marks and while warm and operating state it's completely full.

Perhaps various oils behave in different ways but I'll continue to check the same as always.

Anecdotal evidence indicates that the difference between MIN and MAX is about 1L.

Oil is not magical...

[bioluminescent]

Anecdotal evidence indicates that the difference between MIN and MAX is about 1L.

Oil is not magical...

DParm- you clearly know all things oil related with these cars. I thought that I've read you state that when the light comes on you need two liters. If the difference between min and max is 1L when does that mean the light comes on 1 liter less than minimum level?

[dparm]

DParm- you clearly know all things oil related with these cars. I thought that I've read you state that when the light comes on you need two liters. If the difference between min and max is 1L when does that mean the light comes on 1 liter less than minimum level?

Yes, that seems to be a good rule of thumb but I don't think there's ever been a definitive answer.