Getting screwed on clutch replacement cost??

[ElSabio182]

Hi guys,

I don't pretend to know much about clutches, but I have a feeling I'm getting worked over...

Just bought a low-millage A4 a couple months ago, only 60k miles.
(!!!) Just today, it made a noise and started slipping really badly. Took it to a guy that's different from my regular mechanic, since I'm trying to get it fixed in time to drive home for thanksgiving. After just test driving it, the guy told me "you need a new clutch" based the test drive (hasn't disassembled or anything). He quoted me $700-800 for the parts, and $1,000 for the labor. This is for an OEM 1.8T replacement. He also said it's not worth it to replace any piecemeal parts that may turn out to be the cause of the problem (throwout bearing etc.), since it will be 1k in labor to take it apart anyways.

My question...Is that WAY too high, or just a little too high?

It happened Friday afternoon, so not great timing to shop around for quotes. I'm also leaving the country for the next few days tomorrow, not back until Wednesday (again, terrible timing)...so if I'm making it home for Thanksgiving, 1.7k is what I have to pay.

The guy I trust is getting back to me tomorrow with his quote, he won't be able to fix it until December either way. But in general...what's a reasonable cost to expect from a non-dealer? The place that quoted me is a good-sized "dealer alternative" whereas my trusted guy is a small indie shop. FYI, I'm in Boston.

I'm super-pissed this clutch failed so early, and I'm going to send an email to the previous owner, but clearly I'm stuck with it. :-)

So what's a reasonable price to pay? I'd STFA, but I'm on my mobile phone so it's not easy to look, and my flight leaves tomorrow.

Thanks for your help boys!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[coolgraymemo]

Way too high.

You can probably find someone local that will do the job for much less than than.

[rico89]

Hi guys,

I don't pretend to know much about clutches, but I have a feeling I'm getting worked over...

Just bought a low-millage A4 a couple months ago, only 60k miles.
(!!!) Just today, it made a noise and started slipping really badly. Took it to a guy that's different from my regular mechanic, since I'm trying to get it fixed in time to drive home for thanksgiving. After just test driving it, the guy told me "you need a new clutch" based the test drive (hasn't disassembled or anything). He quoted me $700-800 for the parts, and $1,000 for the labor. This is for an OEM 1.8T replacement. He also said it's not worth it to replace any piecemeal parts that may turn out to be the cause of the problem (throwout bearing etc.), since it will be 1k in labor to take it apart anyways.

My question...Is that WAY too high, or just a little too high?

It happened Friday afternoon, so not great timing to shop around for quotes. I'm also leaving the country for the next few days tomorrow, not back until Wednesday (again, terrible timing)...so if I'm making it home for Thanksgiving, 1.7k is what I have to pay.

The guy I trust is getting back to me tomorrow with his quote, he won't be able to fix it until December either way. But in general...what's a reasonable cost to expect from a non-dealer? The place that quoted me is a good-sized "dealer alternative" whereas my trusted guy is a small indie shop. FYI, I'm in Boston.

I'm super-pissed this clutch failed so early, and I'm going to send an email to the previous owner, but clearly I'm stuck with it. :-)

So what's a reasonable price to pay? I'd STFA, but I'm on my mobile phone so it's not easy to look, and my flight leaves tomorrow.

Thanks for your help boys!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

too high, get your parts from genuineaudiparts.com and find a decent shop in your area that specializes in vw/audi. try the discussion forum for your region I am pretty sure fellow audiziner will lead you to a good shop that will charge a fair amount for the job.

Had mine replacement just a week ago and found a great place to service my car through the regional discussion forum.

Good luck

[walky_talky20]

Valeo single mass conversion for $400.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-GENUINE-...p2054897.l4276

Labor is pricey, though. 8 hours would be pretty fair at whatever rate the shop charges.

[M-Hood]

Labor looks about normal seeing book time is 10 hrs even though most mechanics can actually do the job in half that time.

[DeathKing]

Hell even ECStuning has a single mass conversion for half the parts price.

[Scotty@Advanced]

Did he provide a parts list? For just a clutch it's expensive, but if that includes a new stock DMF, hardware, clutch etc, that isn't too bad. Labor is highish but not rapingly so.

[Seerlah]

Not replace the TO bearing? Post in the regional section and see what suggestions they have. For example, my mechanic would charge you $250 and you supply the part. Not sure how much if everything ordered and such by him. I recommended people to him and they would take 3+hour drives just to save that extra money. And if you post in the regional section, someone may be willing to knock it out real quick for you for a certain price.

[ElSabio182]

Thanks for the feedback guys,

So from your responses, it looks like the opinions are somewhere between "way too high" to "pretty high" to "in the ballpark of reasonable." I'm soliciting a few other mechanics now for specific quotes.

The issue is weighing the benefit of waiting a week is actually worth the potential savings. Since the guy with the initial quote now has my car (and I'm leaving town today), $1,700 is the only way I make it home for Thanksgiving (which would be nice). For instance, if the consensus is that most shops in Boston would charge $1,400, I might just bite the bullet and pay the premium as a convenience fee. But if it's more like a $900 job at most Boston shops...well, maybe I'll wait.

I've got one dude out near Medfield quoting $1,250, which sounds a bit more reasonable and is something I'm seriously considering. That'd be for a Sachs kit, with no flywheel (Sachs is a suitable replacement, right?) Still waiting to hear back from my go-to mechanic (Vinnie's Autosport in Cambridge, who I'd recommend to anyone)


To reply to a few specific comments:

-Just started a local thread, and DMed a few guys who have local shops

-@Scotty and @Walky - the $1700 quote does NOT include a flywheel...he said if that needs replacing, it'd be an extra $400 or so for a stock flywheel replacement (which is dual-mass, right? I don't know enough about the benefits of a single-mass flywheel to make the switch)

-@Seerlah - I was just saying that I don't know what's broken with it. So let's say he cracks it open and finds that just the TO bearing is broken...would it make sense to replace just the bearing instead of the whole thing? The guy is telling me that it's a bad idea, since once we've gone that far into labor (the full $1K), it'd only be a difference of a couple hundred in parts so might as well have the whole thing new.

Thanks so much for your help guys! (Walky, you continue to be da man). I need to go call my Mom and tell her I might not make it home for the holiday...the level of how pissed/sad she is might affect my decision, unfortunately :-(

[CBlockb5a4]

you should do the valeo single mass conversion kit and call it a day......done, that should be about $12-1500 depending on shop rate and part cost....

[DeathKing]

"in the ballpark of reasonable" only because he is working with jacked up OEM prices (probably). My point with the single mass kit was that at minimum you should order it and have a shop install it for whatever their labor cost is.

[ElSabio182]

Tangent question n the single-mass flywheel (Apologies, I'm doing a crash-course on getting knowledgeable about this stuff...figured I had another few years before I had to learn about my clutch damn options!!)

I'm probably going to chip the engine in the spring, and maybe a K04 down the road, but no plans for massive power mods. Would the stock dual-mass be OK with that kind of load? My understanding is a single-mass is better at handling aftermarket power, but it will cause some drive-train chatter and vibrations particularly at low speeds/gears. Whereas the OEM dual-mass is a lot smoother...but its calibrated carefully for our cars, so adding additional power can cause it to overheat and fail prematurely.

If I'm gonna make this damn investment, I'm gonna try to make the right one...

[Seerlah]

Dual mass is heavier than single. This correlates to being able to rev faster and have the rpms drop faster so you can get back on the throttle. The drive is different, due to the dual mass having more rotational mass. Takes more time to move and slow down.

My advice when it comes to a clutch, research it. Even though you are sort of forced to, you need to do a lot of searching for reviews and be sure you choose the correct one for your end power goals. You really don't want to replace the clutch again. And with that being said, the Valeo one mentioned in this thread seems to be an Audizine favorite in the B5/B6 A4 platform due to cost and durability. Tried and proven over and over again.

[howardfootball]

Dual mass is heavier than single. This correlates to being able to rev faster and have the rpms drop faster so you can get back on the throttle. The drive is different, due to the dual mass having more rotational mass. Takes more time to move and slow down.

My advice when it comes to a clutch, research it. Even though you are sort of forced to, you need to do a lot of searching for reviews and be sure you choose the correct one for your end power goals. You really don't want to replace the clutch again. And with that being said, the Valeo one mentioned in this thread seems to be an Audizine favorite in the B5/B6 A4 platform due to cost and durability. Tried and proven over and over again.

This. Buy the Valeo single conversion and pay labor costs or find a local member that could help you do it.

[ElSabio182]

Ok I'll look into that. Just know nothing about converting from the stock dual to the valeo single...so I'll have to get smart real fast. Assuming if everyone loves it, it must not be excessively noisey or difficult for daily driver usage. Thanks for all the advice so far, it's been invaluable.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[woolveren]

But in general...what's a reasonable cost to expect from a non-dealer?

Indy mechanic here charge around $450(labor only) for clutch replacement.. I will be replacing mine next year..

[ElSabio182]

Ok guys...again, up front...thank you for all the timely feedback. I'm coming to you live from F-ing ISTANBUL TURKEY at 3:00 in the goddamn morning local time! This has really been my first chance to spend a few hours doing my own research. Suuuuch bad timing!

Right now, the two on my short-list are:
Option 1) The Valeo single mass conversion kit, as recommended by Walky and a bunch of other threads I've found.
PRO:
- inexpensive, simple, and a nice little "OEM+" feel to the whole thing with the improved grab.
- Also more durable and resurface-able in the future.
- Gear chatter while idling associated with LWFW setups shouldn't be an issue with this setup.
- Will be able to handle my stock KO3 (a KO3s since it's an '01) plus a GIAC-X chip without a problem (RIGHT??). Would be able to handle any associated exhaust upgrades as well

CON:
- maybe I'm not going to like the rougher grab on my daily driver? (doubt it, it doesn't sound too harsh...but the only way to find out is the hard way!)
- the Valeo kit is a single-unit, can't swap out other components for upgrades along the way
- if I ever went down the KO4-15 + PC-16 setup, there is a debate about whether this setup could handle that (and per the FAQ, if I ever go KO4, I'd want to do the PC-16, since without that tune, it'd be only a slight improvement on my KO3s+GIAC-X)....however, I don't know how likely I am to go down that road anyways, so I'm not too concerned (gotta start saving for a house downpayment sooner or later!)

QUESTION: any differences in the e-bay link provided by Walky (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-GENUINE-...l4276#shpCntId)

versus the apparently identical setup offered by ECS?
http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-...mpaign=newpost

I ask because the ECS package is sliiiiighly cheaper with shipping factored in, and I'd rather buy from them than an eBay outlet if all things are equal.


Option 2: The RA4 Conversion Kit offered by ECS: http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-...Clutch/ES5485/
PRO:
- More powwaaaahhh! Upgrade from 228mm to 240 diameter. This would certainly be all the clutch I'd ever need
- upgradeable/replacable components if needed.
- still getting a steel single-mass flywheel (right? or is theirs aluminum?)

CON:
- More expensive...but hey, buy it right the first time and don't worry about it
- Longer lasting and more durable than the Valeo kit??
- Real possibility of annoying idle chatter from the lighter flywheel
- Maybe a harsher ride and more of an upgrade than I realistically need


At the moment, I'm leaning towards the Valeo option...seems cheap and idiot-proof. Are there any other options I should be considering? A ClutchMaster FX100? Or would an FX200/FX300 be worth it? Anything from Southbend? (although I'm reading mixed reviews on Southbend). Also, I'm planning to drop a line to Mike Hood at Ringer Racing (M-Hood) to get any of his thoughts on any products he sells, since he seems to pop up in damn near every clutch/flywheel discussion I found and seems to know his shit inside and out.

Looking forward to chatting with the guy quoting me $1,700 for just an OEM (non-flywheel) replacement tomorrow :-) At this point, I'm just gonna find someone else to do it with the parts I supply after Thanksgiving...Mom will see me at Christmas (i was actually debating driving the car 700 miles roundtrip with the clutch in its current condition...but that seems like a bad idea the more I think about it).

Thanks guys! I think we're close!

[Seerlah]

Clutch Masters with a resurfaced stock dual mass flywheel (one in your car) is also another option.

[walky_talky20]

QUESTION: any differences in the e-bay link provided by Walky (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-GENUINE-...l4276#shpCntId)

versus the apparently identical setup offered by ECS?
http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-...mpaign=newpost

I ask because the ECS package is sliiiiighly cheaper with shipping factored in, and I'd rather buy from them than an eBay outlet if all things are equal.

Nope. Go with ECS. I was just looking for the best price (and failed!).

[BrucexL33]

Nope. Go with ECS. I was just looking for the best price (and failed!).

you did not fail yet walky! For the ECS one you gotta factor in the shipping cost ($39) whereas the Ebay one is free! Can you feel it? That's the miracle of Walky! He was right without knowing it.

[coolgraymemo]

Amazon also has it: $371, free shipping.

[BrucexL33]

Amazon also has it: $371, free shipping.

oh now you gotta buy it from Amazon! Amazon is the best!

[walky_talky20]

you did not fail yet walky! For the ECS one you gotta factor in the shipping cost ($39) whereas the Ebay one is free! Can you feel it? That's the miracle of Walky! He was right without knowing it.

I lol'd. Trust me, there is plenty o' fail from this guy. You guys kill me.

[ElSabio182]

Quick update...finally home and able to give this issue it's due-attention. With any luck, I'll have a solution purchased on Friday. But the more I learn, obviously the more annoying questions I have! I think staying at 228mm is probably the way for me to go...no need for the 240mm upgrade, I don't see myself doing enough engine/turbo work to justify it. So that means I'm scratching the RA4 kit from ECS.

Plus, I'm giving more thought to Seerlah's point about keeping the DMFW within an upgrade clutch setup. That means I'm now deciding between the Valeo Single-Mass conversion kit, and a ClutchMaster FX100 or FX250 setup from Ringer (the FX250, per Mike, has organic materials that do better in cold weather than the FX200's Kevlar).

I had been sold on Walky's point about converting to single-mass, but after figuring out that it IS possible to resurface the stock dual-mass FW...perhaps some of the "smoothness" benefits of a DMFW might be worth keeping around? And the issue of smoothness and overall drivetrain chatter in each setup brings me to this question about sprung/unsprung discs...

If I understand correctly, the Clutchmaster disc is determined by what flywheel you use....the "sprung" stock DMFW gets paired with an "unsprung" clutch disc, right? I saw some threads on this topic, but I might not be understanding this correctly. On the flipside...the Valeo single-mass FW is obviously "non-sprung"...but it looks like the disc included in the package is also "non-sprung." Is the preferred setup to have one component spring-pressured to improve smoothness of gripping, but not both of them to avoid being too spongy?

Of course I've driven about 50 miles or so (some highway, some stop-and-go) on my current flywheel since the clutch blew, so I could be potentially damaging the flywheel beyond what a resurfacing can fix. Guess I won't know until I crack it open.

In addition to the sprung hub question above...any thoughts or experiences with the Clutchmaster FX100 or FX250 would also be welcomed, and pros/cons of that setup over the single-mass conversion kit...again, trying to figure out how much performance I really need to purchase here. Maybe I can score a black friday deal :-)

Happy Thanksgiving, AZ!

[Seerlah]

A flywheel is a flywheel (not are all the same, but you get what I mean). It is the clutch disc hub that is either sprung or unsprung. Depending what clutch disc you choose would determine if it can or can't be used with a particular flywheel. And you can't go mismatching parts from different companies. This is where they make money and all parts are not always compatible. For example, you saying you want to do a single mass flywheel Valeo conversion with a Clutch Masters clutch kit. You would first need to know if you can actually do that. This is where you do research and ask actual dealers (ie Mike Hood) for information pertaining to that.

An alternative when it comes to Clutch Masters and keeping your dual mass flywheel is simply getting it resurfaced ($50-75 at a machine shop). Then slap the Clutch Masters kit on it. Rating power at the "flywheel/crank" is listed on the bottom of the page. Probably the best prices you can find for a Clutch Masters.

http://www.ringer-racing.com/product...5&categoryId=4

If having that person from the regional section do your car, you may want to pick up a used flywheel and have it machined before arriving at his house. Also, you need new hardware (flywheel bolts and pressure place bolts). Alignment tool should be supplied with whatever clutch kit you get. Hardware may also be supplied with whatever kit you get. If not, then 95% chance it uses OEM hardware.

[ElSabio182]

A flywheel is a flywheel (not are all the same, but you get what I mean). It is the clutch disc hub that is either sprung or unsprung. Depending what clutch disc you choose would determine if it can or can't be used with a particular flywheel. And you can't go mismatching parts from different companies. This is where they make money and all parts are not always compatible. For example, you saying you want to do a single mass flywheel Valeo conversion with a Clutch Masters clutch kit. You would first need to know if you can actually do that. This is where you do research and ask actual dealers (ie Mike Hood) for information pertaining to that.

Hey there...thanks, and woah, maybe my post was unclear (jet lag does that to me). I was absolutely NOT trying to suggest mix-and-matching parts. My question was trying to confirm if the single-mass Valeo kit includes a sprung hub. And I confirmed yesterday it does by calling ECS (just couldn't when I posted due to the holiday). The language in their web ad didn't explicitly say it, just looking for a confirmation. Done and done.

Your suggestion of getting a used flywheel to have ready for install is a good one, and I actually started poking around the regional forums for one yesterday. I'll be sure to order replacement hardware along with any kit I order, and I'll probably order a rear main seal just for kicks while I'm at it.

And I've been in touch with Mike at Ringer, he's been very helpful (I've spent many hours with the link you provided opened as a browser tab). Believe me, homework has been done. I've easily read hundreds of forum posts, talked to several vendors, and started reaching out to local mechanics. I know the maximum torque/hp I'd ever realistically expect from my car in the future, etc. So please don't feel that your feedback and advice is falling on deaf-ears...far from it!

New info keeps swaying my decisions a bit, but I think I'm as informed as I realistically can be at this point. I'm making my final decisions between the following:

Valeo single mass kit, at $370 shipped - cheap, reliable, but no room for upgrades or engine mods. Rated at 250 ft/lbs

ECS RA4 Stage 1 at $540 shipped (basically an S4 clutch) - gets me into a single-mass flywheel and the 240mm size fairly cheaply. Rated at around 300ft/lbs. But I'm concerned about that thin/light flywheel pushing such a heavy car (as Mike has pointed out numerous times). Means I have to give a bit more throttle off the line. And always the concern of chatter, but that seems to be less prevalent in recent years.

ClutchMasters FX350 (228m) at ~$650 - the FX350 would cost the same as the 250, so what the hell :-). This is obviously the superior clutch. But my concern is the stock DMFW being a weak-link in the whole system. If I can find an existing DMFW from someone local (as Mike and Seerlah have suggested), and confirm that it's in good condition before resurfacing, I'd feel much better about this option. Would also save me from having my car out of commission for 3-5 days while the flywheel gets shipped back and forth. Since my current clutch failed catastrophically early, I'm VERY hesitant to reuse any parts from it (and I wouldn't know about the current flywheel until it gets cracked open).


On the plus side...I found a local guy who's willing to install the clutch in my driveway for $400 (might be a liiittle too suspect for me...someone doing it in a shop for $500-$600 is kinda my sweet spot). But first things first!

I'll keep you posted on how it all turns out.

[AnotherMonday]

This thread is great. All kinds of hope restored for my own gremlins.

[Seerlah]

On the plus side...I found a local guy who's willing to install the clutch in my driveway for $400 (might be a liiittle too suspect for me...someone doing it in a shop for $500-$600 is kinda my sweet spot). But first things first!

That guy is from the B6 A4 section. He is mechanically inclined.

[Satummoo]

I had a stage 1 b7 with a stage 2 DXD clutch that failed after a year.

The ecs I've never had personal experience, but when I was looking for a clutch, some people commented that it did chatter because it was too light. The valeo is tried-and-true and some people run them with eliminator turbos.

If you want Power, go with this JHM kit:
http://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalo...8t-p-1231.html

Or just stick with the valeo.