The real scoop on steel vs aluminum flywheels

[bpat1017]

So I've read almost every forum on these flywheels and it's just a back and forth game. I've read a lot on why aluminum flywheels are great and don't have much chatter at all but rough engagement. Billet Steel flywheels are faster revs and smooth engagement. So basically everyone is having trouble with the engine lag but wants smooth engagement. Heres a question. Why else put a stage 3 in an audi? Because you wanted an audi with power and not a civic with a turbo. So what's the best clutch for better performance while keeping it smooth like how an AUDI should be? Obviously companies sell both because they both have better performance then Oem. But what's better for a stage 2 or 3 a4?

[RoguesGambit]

Subing to this thread

[swaggerwagon]

In before the flamezzzz

[jimrobbington]

Drake's clutch, stage 3 or 4 with stock dmfw.

[aluthman]

Drake's clutch, stage 3 or 4 with stock dmfw.

Or CM steel SMFW

[p0isin]

I've been running the Vast stage three clutch and stock dmfw for a really long time. I couldn't be happier with it.

[LINDW4LL]

A Drakes Performance or CM clutch with stock flywheel is what you want.

[CorneliusRox]

When you guys use the stock flywheel, are you taking it to be resurfaced or just clean it up with some brake clean? I have heard you aren't supposed to resurface dual mass, but I would be on the fence about not getting it surfaced.

[Charles.waite]

You can resurface Dual Masses but the place doing it needs special equipment to hold the friction face in place.

On to the Flywheel part. The material doesn't matter so much as the weight. Its just a metal spinning disk really. It could conceivably affect clutch engagement though as different metals have differing abilities to absorb and transfer heat and thus the friction disc might engage differently because of that under load.

Lucky for us, the 2.0t has balance shafts so there is much less driveline vibration for the lightweight flywheel to transfer into transmission, creating the gear rattle commonly associated with lightweight flywheels.

[DRAKLORE]

chatter isnt really all about the flywheel, chatter is about clamping force, and disc surface area. A lighter flywheel can be a big contributing factor, especially when the car in question is 3700LBS and AWD.
But applying more force, over a faster moving smaller surface area is your ticket to chatter.
A pucked clutch disc vs a Full face disc is a way that clutch companies can keep materials cost down and also have a weaker pressure plate that is able to apply the same grabbing force or clapming pressure as a Full face clutch with a Heavier sprung Pressure plate.

essentially acheiving the same Clamping PSI as a full faced disc.

the problem is that there is also now less area to ABSORB the "impact" or reaction between the Pressure plate and Flywheel. Now if the flywheel has a greater Delta V (change in velocity) Or Inertia of the Flywheel.

aluminum will Rise the RPMs faster, but alternatively drop the revs faster. afterall flywheels are heavy for a reason, and technically its about conservation of energy.
a heavier flywheel will take more power to get going, but sustain that RPM for longer. this is good for highway driving, long stretches ect.
a lighter flywheel takes less energy to spin, so if you are constantly shifting or moving through the rpm range this can be good.

a drag car can benefit from a lighter flywheel, while road race car or daily driver may want a compromise between a super light flywheel and heavier alternative.


the dual mass flywheel is a sprung steel flywheel with two pieces (IE DUAL mass) when the clutch is engaged the sprung surface absorbs the initial shock of the engagement for a smoother shift.
Unfortunately the more moving pieces means the more to fail, this isnt always true but I have seen many people disapointed that their DMFW had excessive play upon removal.
Single mass flywheels are great because of their simplicity. less moving parts means less to fail.




Also Im not an expert and I may have some terms backwards, but I think you guys get the general idea.

[p0isin]

When you guys use the stock flywheel, are you taking it to be resurfaced or just clean it up with some brake clean? I have heard you aren't supposed to resurface dual mass, but I would be on the fence about not getting it surfaced.

I had a resurfaced DMFW sent to me from Vast with the Stage 3 clutch and sent my original back to them.

[CTAudiDriver]

I had a resurfaced DMFW sent to me from Vast with the Stage 3 clutch and sent my original back to them.

I really liked my Vast clutch on my Stg. 3 S4, the problem is that they don't exist anymore...

[aluthman]

I really liked my Vast clutch on my Stg. 3 S4, the problem is that they don't exist anymore...

The same design is being sold by Drake's Performance.

[Jake@JHM]

JHM Lightweight Flywheel and Clutch Combo (B7 RS4 Pressure Plate)




I couldn't be more happier with this product. Very little chatter (surprising for a 4cyl) and the increase in engine responsiveness is very noticeable.

Jake

[jimrobbington]

When you guys use the stock flywheel, are you taking it to be resurfaced or just clean it up with some brake clean? I have heard you aren't supposed to resurface dual mass, but I would be on the fence about not getting it surfaced.

3z3 had mine resurfaced here in Denver for about $75.

[jimrobbington]

I really liked my Vast clutch on my Stg. 3 S4, the problem is that they don't exist anymore...

get with the program man! PM Draklore if you have questions.

[viziers]

I really liked my Vast clutch on my Stg. 3 S4, the problem is that they don't exist anymore...

Go with a Clutchmasters fx400 with their Single Mass Steel Flywheel it has great engagement. Here is the part number for the clutch I have CM-02025-HDC6 and the Flywheel is CM-FW-025-SF and talk to Mike Hood from Ringer Racing..



vizi

[ericpaulyoung]

Lucky for us, the 2.0t has balance shafts so there is much less driveline vibration for the lightweight flywheel to transfer into transmission, creating the gear rattle commonly associated with lightweight flywheels.

My 2.0 don't have them.

[Charles.waite]

Mike hood is a shitbag. Don't buy anything from him.

Also want a cookie Eric??

[SPB.2127]

Is anyone other than jake@JHM running one of the JHM clutches? I feel like the only one that ever talks about that clutch combo for the B7 is a JHM rep. I want to hear a non-biased opinion about it.

[ericpaulyoung]

Mike hood is a shitbag. Don't buy anything from him.

Also want a cookie Eric??

Yup!

[ericpaulyoung]

Is anyone other than jake@JHM running one of the JHM clutches? I feel like the only one that ever talks about that clutch combo for the B7 is a JHM rep. I want to hear a non-biased opinion about it.

I will be trying one of the JHM setups on my evil twin sequential build. I have also ran Drake's Stage IV on my GTX build and really liked it. Lasted about 10k miles and was very smooth!

epy

[SPB.2127]

I will be trying one of the JHM setups on my evil twin sequential build. I have also ran Drake's Stage IV on my GTX build and really liked it. Lasted about 10k miles and was very smooth!

epy

Cool cool. I'm going to need a new clutch by spring or summer and have been curious to hear how well their kit works.

[Jake@JHM]

Is anyone other than jake@JHM running one of the JHM clutches? I feel like the only one that ever talks about that clutch combo for the B7 is a JHM rep. I want to hear a non-biased opinion about it.

We have sold a ton of the kits. Whether or not those customers are on the forums, I have no idea. I know EPY and Refury have it for sure though.

Buy it and review it =]

Jake

[alphaVR]

Have a Southbend Stage 3 Endurance clutch in my Audi. Couldn't be happier. Grabs like a mofo if I want to launch it, but is still easy to drive even in traffic.

[mec]

I will be trying one of the JHM setups on my evil twin sequential build. I have also ran Drake's Stage IV on my GTX build and really liked it. Lasted about 10k miles and was very smooth!

epy

What?

Drakes only last 10k??? On a Gtx? Shit maybe my clutch is going out then...

[ericpaulyoung]

What?

Drakes only last 10k??? On a Gtx? Shit maybe my clutch is going out then...

My pressure plate bolts might have came loose and backed out, or it is just done in at 10k. Either way it is slipping. I will know next week when I pull the engine.

[aluthman]

That's not what I wanted to hear I hope I get a lot more than 10k out of mine.

[jsandor91]

That's not what I wanted to hear I hope I get a lot more than 10k out of mine.

x2 i have a drakes stage v going in soon.

[CorneliusRox]

My pressure plate bolts might have came loose and backed out, or it is just done in at 10k. Either way it is slipping. I will know next week when I pull the engine.

I think we';re all looking forward to a review. Are you going to make a new thread or update the one you originally made for that clutch? Also, what one is yours? stg4?

[ericpaulyoung]

Stage V actually. I will drop pictures in my thread. If you put in a clutch, make sure to use brake clean or some degreaser on the bolts and put red loctite on them.

Epy

[Charles.waite]

Stage V actually. I will drop pictures in my thread. If you put in a clutch, make sure to use brake clean or some degreaser on the bolts and put red loctite on them.

Epy

The bolts that came with my b6's clutch were pre-coated with red locktite-like paste so I didn't touch them.

In retrospect, I probably should have cleaned them off and applied red locktite to them. Balls...

[viziers]

I will be trying one of the JHM setups on my evil twin sequential build. I have also ran Drake's Stage IV on my GTX build and really liked it. Lasted about 10k miles and was very smooth!

epy

10k? That's it? Man that sucks. My last CM FX400 had 40k+ on it and it was toast due to the DMFL letting go finally at 180k the clutch disc still had half the meat on it I just replaced it due to getting a new FW and wanted it to be all new. I still have the PP and disc just incase I need it someday or a fellow person needs a replacement in a pinch.



vizi

[viziers]

x2 i have a drakes stage v going in soon.

May want to sell it and get a real clutch from a reputable company.


vizi

[p0isin]

I've put well over 10k on my vast stage 3 clutch and it works just as well as on day one. Absolutely no complaints so it has the potential to last a lot longer than 10k.

I'm not saying it's the greatest thing ever, but it definitely is doing the job that I expected it to.

[ericpaulyoung]

May want to sell it and get a real clutch from a reputable company.


vizi

Don't be an ass. As for CM, my Fx400 lasted less than 2000 miles and blew up. Lotsa of things can go right or wrong. If my bolts are just coming loose, I will keep the disks and reuse them.

[mec]

I hear there is a badass billet steel flywheel that revs like the wind for sale in the classifieds, I'm gonna go but down an offer before it sells ;)

[ericpaulyoung]

[martin0079]

JHM Lightweight Flywheel and Clutch Combo (B7 RS4 Pressure Plate)




I couldn't be more happier with this product. Very little chatter (surprising for a 4cyl) and the increase in engine responsiveness is very noticeable.

Jake

Disappointing to see no steel lock plate on that flywheel.

[ericpaulyoung]

Well measured the plates and the Drake stage V still has a lot of life left. So I am going to put the Drake ceramic plates back in with the JHM wheel and PP.