Getting these codes when trying to start my car...

[xdewaynex]

Some my have seen a few of my threads about getting my 3.0 A6 back on the road. I finally got a new F125/Neutral Safety Switch in, and it fixed one of my problems. The car is still not starting, and getting a few codes, posted below...


VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.2
Saturday, 02 November 2013, 13:14:52:47197
Control Module Part Number: 8E0 909 559 E
Component and/or Version: 3.0L V6/5V G 0003
Software Coding: 0016752
Work Shop Code: WSC 02325
VCID: 370110820655
4 Faults Found:
17800 - Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G163): Open Short to Plus
P1392 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded
16725 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40): Implausible Signal
P0341 - 004 - No Signal/Communication
16775 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G301): Implausible Signal
P0391 - 004 - No Signal/Communication
16750 - Camshaft Position Sensor B Bank 1 (G300): Implausible Signal
P0366 - 004 - No Signal/Communication


The 16725 code, one thing was to check for timing. When I done the timing belt swap, all my marks lined up in the end, when I put everything back together. Im not sure whats going on with the rest. I really need some help with this. Its been a little over a year and a half since it last ran, and Im tired of seeing it sit, after Ive got this far.

[xdewaynex]

Was just told from a friend of mine, to check and see if the rpm gauge moves while cranking...if it doesnt, the crank sensor is a problem. Looks like Im going to have to purchase one those now, as the needle does not budge.

[Vinnie981]

its not starting because all your camshaft sensors are shot or there is a problem with there connector or harness.

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-C5_A6-...haft_Position/

go oem.....others don't last.

I have a 2002 Audi A6 3.0l I'm parting if you want to buy my sensors

[xdewaynex]

Im just not sure how they could all go bad. The car ran fine before I pulled the motor and trans, last year.



I honestly didnt think anything about it, but the "Open short to plus". I forgot that the connector casing, that plugs into the sensor, is broke. Im sure with it not clipping into place, its giving that code.

From Ross Tech Wiki: The Engine Speed Sensor (G28) is also used as a reference sensor for the crankshaft position and correlates with the Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 1 (G40) and Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G163).

I believe this might be my answer, for replacing the cam/speed sensor.

[Vinnie981]

i agree but i would fix those clips..........good luck

[xdewaynex]

So I pulled the crank sensor out, cleaned it off, and placed it back in the car. The housing that is broke on one of the cam sensor connectors, I figured out, I was plugging it in wrong. Turned it around, and it snaps into the sensor plug. Hooked vag com up, cleared the codes out, tried starting the car a few times, and still no go. I scanned the car again, and now Im getting the following codes.

VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.2
Sunday, 03 November 2013, 15:14:00:47197
Control Module Part Number: 8E0 909 559 E
Component and/or Version: 3.0L V6/5V G 0003
Software Coding: 0016752
Work Shop Code: WSC 02325
VCID: 370110820655
4 Faults Found:
17800 - Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G163): Open Short to Plus
P1392 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded
17746 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40): Open or Short to Plus
P1338 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded
19758 - Exhaust Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G301): Short to Ground
P3302 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded
19756 - Exhaust Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 1 (G300): Short to Ground
P3300 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded


Ive checked all the wires, and they look good. Would the possible bad crank sensor, be leading to the open short/short to ground codes?

[Vinnie981]

are you sure the timing belt was done correctly? timing is good? did you use cam locking tools and do it right?

if so then just replace the sensors....i had three go bad on my old a6 3.0l and yes they were shot.

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...0/P1392/005010

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...6/P1338/004920

[xdewaynex]

Timing was done correctly. I bought the cam and crank locking tools, made sure all my marks lined up correctly, and everything. Like I said before, I just find it hard to believe, they would go bad, from just sitting. Never had trouble from them, before the tear down.

[Vinnie981]

well maybe you didn't plug everything in correctly or messed up a wire.....the codes don't lie.....either there faulty or the harness is messed up

[xdewaynex]

Is it possible the connectors could be switched on these? Ill double check everything tomorrow. If nothing changes, I may be hitting you up on buying those sensors.

Another thing I dont get, is how the last 3 codes changed, when I realized the one connector was inserted backwards, and then connected it correctly.

[Vinnie981]

Was just told from a friend of mine, to check and see if the rpm gauge moves while cranking...if it doesnt, the crank sensor is a problem. Looks like Im going to have to purchase one those now, as the needle does not budge.

your friend is wrong...i have never had an audi where the rpm gauge moves while cranking....i don't think i have ever owned a car that did

[Vinnie981]

the first codes stated there was not communication to the sensor.....my thinking would be it was either unplugged or short in harness .
you now plugged it in as it was upside down lol....and it now sees the sensor(doesn't say no communication anymore) but theres a problem.


I would take your time and go over the harness wires too all camshaft sensors and crank sensor. unplug one at a time....clean the connections on sensor side and harness side with some crc electrical connector cleaner.

Clear codes and report back

[Vinnie981]

BEFORE
17800 - Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G163): Open Short to Plus
P1392 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded

16725 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40): Implausible Signal
P0341 - 004 - No Signal/Communication

16775 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G301): Implausible Signal
P0391 - 004 - No Signal/Communication

16750 - Camshaft Position Sensor B Bank 1 (G300): Implausible Signal
P0366 - 004 - No Signal/Communication





AFTER
17800 - Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G163): Open Short to Plus
P1392 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded

17746 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40): Open or Short to Plus
P1338 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded

19758 - Exhaust Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G301): Short to Ground
P3302 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded

19756 - Exhaust Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 1 (G300): Short to Ground
P3300 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded



first code didn't change......there only three possibilities here with these codes bud.

1) Timing is off (i think your good here from what you said)
2) Sensor connections are not correct.....loose, upside down lol, dirty, unplugged, broken wire, ext. (my second thought)
3) Sensors are faulty (i believe this is your issue)

Crank Sensor is $40 bosch
http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-C5_A6-...ensors/ES1874/
The signal from the crankshaft position sensor is used by the ECU to determine crank rotation speed and to control ignition timing and fuel injection. A faulty sensor can cause misfires, excessive engine vibrations and backfires from improper fuel and timing parameters.
If the sensor has completely failed, your vehicle may not start altogether. If your car exhibits any of these symptoms, check and replace your crankshaft position sensor.


Cam sensor are $65 each and theres 4
http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-C5_A6-...sors/ES251644/
This is a direct replacement cam positioning sensor. When this sensor fails, it will become impossible to start your car, leaving you stranded.


if thats a little to much on cam sensors i have 4 i can sell to you

[xdewaynex]

My new crank sensor is on its way from ECS today. I went out and visually checked the wiring from the 4 sensors, and everything looks good. I done a little looking online, and found that I can get the 4 cam sensors from AutohausAZ for a little over $80 shipped. Im going to see if the new crank sensor changes anything, before I pull the trigger on the cam sensors. This is getting pretty frustrating.

I pulled the 4 cam sensors, and cleaned them off, and inspected the electrical pins as well. The one that I had plugged in wrong, I must have messed up before, and the pins were bent, not making a connection at all. I straightened them up, and got the connector to fit properly. I scanned the car, cleared the codes, and keep getting the same codes, except the last 3 codes are changing from short to ground, to implausible signal.

[Vinnie981]

to implausible signal=your sensors dead

[Vinnie981]

AutohausAZ has the cam sensors? i don't see them on site for your car.

[xdewaynex]

Sure do. I looked them up by the part number #06C905163B https://www.autohausaz.com/search/pr...ber=06C905163B

[Vinnie981]

nice give them a shot.....seems a little to cheap to be OEM

[xdewaynex]

It was the cheapest I had found. When I first looked for a crank sensor, I called Auto Zone first, just to see if they had one in stock....it was a little over $100, checked ECS and it was around $35... Im still confused as to why Auto Zone was so expensive, for the same brand sensor.

[xdewaynex]

Got my volt meter out this morning, and tested the 4 connectors to the sensors. Pin 1 on all 4 connectors were giving me 10.4v, Pin 2 was 22v and Pin 3 gave me .4ohms. Im guessing this clarifies that my wiring is good. Any way to actually check the sensors themselves?

[Vinnie981]

not that i know of.....only wiring harness for shorts

[xdewaynex]

So I got the new crank sensor installed, and nothing has changed. I logged group 005 for the start conditions, and Im seeing a max of 160/min for the engine speed (g68) Could this be a problem with my starter? On top of that, Im not getting any fault codes at the moment, since I changed the crank sensor.

[xdewaynex]

Hooked up a battery charger, cranked the car, and I got a max of 200/min on the engine speed, and the 4 codes for the cams came back.

17800 - Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G163): Open Short to Plus
P1392 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded

16725 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40): Implausible Signal
P0341 - 004 - No Signal/Communication

16775 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G301): Implausible Signal
P0391 - 004 - No Signal/Communication

16750 - Camshaft Position Sensor B Bank 1 (G300): Implausible Signal
P0366 - 004 - No Signal/Communication


Im losing all hope with this car.

[redneck truck]

are the sensors full of oil?

[xdewaynex]

When I pulled them, there was a few oil drops on them, but not soaked.

[redneck truck]

I don't know how much oil it takes to make them ineffective or damage them, but if they were meant to be wet, Audi wouldn't have put camshaft seals before them. And you're sure they're plugged in? Pull the plugs and ohm out the wires at the corresponding pins on the ECU to make sure the wiring is good.

If the wiring is good, then throw new sensors on. Best case, if they're bad, they'll work for a little bit while you prepare for another timing belt job in order to redo the camshaft seals.

[xdewaynex]

Would you happen to know the pins on the ecu connector, where the cam position wires run to? What is a good reading on the meter?

[DCandDGK]

Implausable usually has to do with timing being off.

[redneck truck]

I've never dealt with it personally, so you may well be right, but I'm thinking about "no signal." Short of the camshafts just not spinning, what else would produce such a code?

Do the cam position sensors produce their signal based on the crank position? Maybe it's unplugged.

[DCandDGK]

I'm not too sure how they work exactly. I had an implausible code and a local shop told me to check timing. Re did my timing, which was a tooth off, and it solved my issue. He said the implausible code is almost always timing being off.

[xdewaynex]

Ill be pulling the front end off today and checking my timing. Its the only other thing I can even think of doing, since Ive tried everything else.

[Vinnie981]

An implausible signal is one which is not within the range of expected results. It is not shorted to + or to gnd but it is out of the range of expected values. it indicates a bad sensor or a wiring problem.

[Vinnie981]

Implausible signal is usually when the control module double checks one signal with another one or a characteristics chart and the results are inconclusive. For example, the ECU sees the vehicle speed sensor telling it a current speed of 100 mph while it knows the car is in 1st gear, obviously there is something implausible about that.

[redneck truck]

Why are we guessing at this?

[rollerton]

simply unplug the sensors, one or all, or one at a time, and try and start the car and then scan again. If the error on a sensor changes to something like 'open circuit' or 'resistance too high' then you've more or less eliminated the wiring as a problem. If The fault doesn't change at all then it's likely ECU or wiring.
That's how my mind works for this kind of stuff. I can't imagine all the sensors would fail or be dirty enough to cause those faults all at once, ..but the 3.0 is a little odd.

[Vinnie981]

i don't know.....the 4 cam sensors are cheap....just replace them oem.

if that doesn't do it, then when you OP said, "Timing was done correctly. I bought the cam and crank locking tools, made sure all my marks lined up correctly, and everything."
you obviously made a mistake.

but like i said.......cam positioning sensor. When this sensor fails, it will become impossible to start your car, leaving you stranded.

[Vinnie981]

simply unplug the sensors, one or all, or one at a time, and try and start the car and then scan again. If the error on a sensor changes to something like 'open circuit' or 'resistance too high' then you've more or less eliminated the wiring as a problem. If The fault doesn't change at all then it's likely ECU or wiring.
That's how my mind works for this kind of stuff. I can't imagine all the sensors would fail or be dirty enough to cause those faults all at once, ..but the 3.0 is a little odd.

he did that....check post #13

[Vinnie981]

BEFORE
17800 - Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G163): Open Short to Plus
P1392 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded

16725 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40): Implausible Signal
P0341 - 004 - No Signal/Communication

16775 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G301): Implausible Signal
P0391 - 004 - No Signal/Communication

16750 - Camshaft Position Sensor B Bank 1 (G300): Implausible Signal
P0366 - 004 - No Signal/Communication





AFTER
17800 - Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G163): Open Short to Plus
P1392 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded

17746 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40): Open or Short to Plus
P1338 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded

19758 - Exhaust Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G301): Short to Ground
P3302 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded

19756 - Exhaust Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 1 (G300): Short to Ground
P3300 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded


TO


17800 - Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G163): Open Short to Plus
P1392 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded

16725 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40): Implausible Signal
P0341 - 004 - No Signal/Communication

16775 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G301): Implausible Signal
P0391 - 004 - No Signal/Communication

16750 - Camshaft Position Sensor B Bank 1 (G300): Implausible Signal
P0366 - 004 - No Signal/Communication

[rollerton]

When this sensor fails, it will become impossible to start your car, leaving you stranded.

I don't have a 3.0 anymore, so..don't even remember if the sensors are in the gear or behind or if they're hall sensor like the all the other ones- but typically when there's more than one cam sensor as long as you have ONE sensor (maybe two on the 3.0?) functioning the car will run. It may start hard and run like ass, but it should supposedly run.
But he's got faults for more than 1...so I think it's something more obvious. No COMM is usually electrical, wiring, broken connector.

he did that....check post #13

Shit!
I didn't see that part! ...yeah. Wiring, connection..something..

[xdewaynex]

Just got in from pulling the front end off. I lined the crank gear up with the timing cover, and inspected the cams with my cam lock tools. The tools did not slide on, like they should have, if it were in time. I turned the crank gear some, and the cams lined up, where the cam locks slide in place...but of course the crank gear is off now.

You can see the timing mark on the crank gear circled in red..



Cam gears locked in place, while the crank gear is out of line..




How do I go about fixing this?