Differences between C5 headlights through the years?

[daremo]

Ok So I was reading Stampy's thread on OEM projector lights and I had a question about the differences.

He mentions this specifically :

96-01 = pre facelift
02-04 = facelift
allroad = same throughout

96-99 Used really small projectors.
00-01 lights used smaller projectors.
02+ received larger projectors.

The funny part here is that the smaller lens are actually better. You can get a lens with much more convex in 2.5"(S2K/TSX). The larger the lens, it tends to focus the beam more right in front of you because the lens isn't as curved.


So which lights are the best? 00/01 cause of smaller projectors?

[KrautHauler]

Am I right in assuming the 2005 headlights are the same as 02-04 on the allroad?

[02 A6 2.7T]

Am I right in assuming the 2005 headlights are the same as 02-04 on the allroad?

The 2001 - 2005 allroad is the same fitment as 2000 - 2001 A6 pre-facelift ...

[julex]

The 2001 - 2005 allroad is the same fitment as 2000 - 2001 A6 pre-facelift ...

Which is a shame since nobody makes nice aftermarket units for pre-facelift... or hood grills since both items are kind of tied together due to light/hood shape.

[lucio_liu]

are all 2001 a6 pre-facelift? I was told 2001 has some later models after specific VINs.

[OGBULLYLOCDAWG]

The internals for the pre-facelift 98-99 lights have a slightly different design compared to the 00-01.. well '98 for sure.. there may be a split on the 99/00 somewhere.

98-99


00-01



Note the dimples around the projector lens on the 98-99, and the placement of where the city light would go under the the highbeam bulb.

As you can see on the 00-01, the design is smooth around the projector and the spot where the city light would go is actually placed above the highbeam bulb.

[OGBULLYLOCDAWG]

are all 2001 a6 pre-facelift? I was told 2001 has some later models after specific VINs.

I think all '01 narrow body((2.7t/2.8) U.S. C5's are pre-facelift.

The 2000+ 4.2 widebody's have the face-lifted front ended, but the headlights are specific to the 4.2's, similar shape to the facelifts, but a different size.

[8520]

Only facelift projectors are bi-xenon right? I want them for the allroad, but not sure if there's a projector from trs that will drop right in.

[V1nny]

Which is a shame since nobody makes nice aftermarket units for pre-facelift... or hood grills since both items are kind of tied together due to light/hood shape.

I have aftermarket hood grille



and used to have aftermarket headlight specifically made for allroad:


Once I completed conversion of my original headlights to full LED's (took me 4 months), keeping the aftermaket headlights as spares, but may sell if anyone interested, still in decent condition.

[mithril]

The funny part here is that the smaller lens are actually better. You can get a lens with much more convex in 2.5"(S2K/TSX). The larger the lens, it tends to focus the beam more right in front of you because the lens isn't as curved.
[/I]

So which lights are the best? 00/01 cause of smaller projectors?

This is subjective and depends largely on what you define as "better". The great arc on the smaller projectors does allow for a wider beam which looks great in cutoff photos against a wall, but the more centre focused hotspot on the 3" E55 projectors used in the facelift lights gives better beam distance and intensity which is more important in real world driving. The extra width is nice, but honestly with the width of most roads and things like trees and cars on either side you won't really notice it.

The pre-facelift lights are also not bi-xenon and the E55's are benchmark for xenon high beam performance. As a general rule the facelift lights with the 3" projectors are the better lights. Those projectors are still used in a large numbe of current vehicles from Audi, MB and BMW to Caddilac and Mitsubishi.

[mithril]

Only facelift projectors are bi-xenon right? I want them for the allroad, but not sure if there's a projector from trs that will drop right in.

Yes they are, but it looks like the shroud is just big enough to accept the 3" lens without cutting. TRS sells the EvoX-R which is, from a mounting standpoint, identical to the E55 in the facelift A6 lights.

http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/show...5-gt-FX35-PICS

[8520]

Yes they are, but it looks like the shroud is just big enough to accept the 3" lens without cutting. TRS sells the EvoX-R which is, from a mounting standpoint, identical to the E55 in the facelift A6 lights.

http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/show...5-gt-FX35-PICS

Thanks for this, I'll add it to the to do list.

[downlowmatt]

Does anyone know where / what I can use as an affordable / available replacement for a 2002 A6 allroad 2.7t headlights?

Cheers

[stef2.7t]

My buddy Kevin did a nice write-up when he changed over his lenses to the ZKW-R Lenses.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...Project-Thread

[jschrauwen]

Are there any after market headlight alternatives for the pre-facelift (01) and facelift (02-04) C5 A6?
I'm a b5 A4 and b8 A5 owner and I'm trying to help out for an Audi tech friend of mine.
Alternatives such as something made by Depo or Valeo perhaps?
Is there also ecodes (euro spec) alternatives for the North American C5 A6?

[V1nny]

allroad headlights are the best upgrade for pre-facelift
I saw few aftermarket, but quality is bad

[jschrauwen]

allroad headlights are the best upgrade for pre-facelift
I saw few aftermarket, but quality is bad

Thanks V1nny
I'm looking for 3 different A6's
'01 4.2L xenon
'01 2.7T halogen
'04 2.7T xenon

I've found some viable solutions in the last 4 hours of searching for both of the facelift and pre-facelift 2.7T but have found zero solutions for the 4.2L xenon. Is this such a rare beast? That there's no after market company or oem suppliers like Depo or Hella or Valeo with alternatives?

[chris86vw]

What are you looking for out of replacement lights?

just replacing worn equipment? like reflectors that are burned up?

trying to get better optics out of the lens?

Or are you trying to get a completely different style/look?

[jschrauwen]

What are you looking for out of replacement lights?

just replacing worn equipment? like reflectors that are burned up?

trying to get better optics out of the lens?

Or are you trying to get a completely different style/look?

For the most part, looking to replace them due to age and the lens deterioration. Better optics would be the primary factor and the style/looks/esthetics would be a secondary factor.
Replacing with new oem would be just too cost prohibitive unless there were cost effective Valeo or Depo's available.

[chris86vw]

For the most part, looking to replace them due to age and the lens deterioration. Better optics would be the primary factor and the style/looks/esthetics would be a secondary factor.
Replacing with new oem would be just too cost prohibitive unless there were cost effective Valeo or Depo's available.

have you checked out places like the https://www.theretrofitsource.com/

There is nothing drop in, maybe something for the 3" ones not sure, but for little over 100 bucks you can get new projector assemblies (pair)

I'm doing the FX-R 3.0 2.5" in my allroad lights which also adds bi-xenon.

Better reflector, enclosed body doesn't let light escape, bi-xenon like mentioned, and a better lens. Going to take a tiny bit of work to get them mounted in but sort of the only option for upgrades.

Then just wet sand and polish the plastic and treat with something like opti-lens (not cheap but little goes a long way)

[LakeTahoeQuattr]

have you checked out places like the https://www.theretrofitsource.com/

There is nothing drop in, maybe something for the 3" ones not sure, but for little over 100 bucks you can get new projector assemblies (pair)

I'm doing the FX-R 3.0 2.5" in my allroad lights which also adds bi-xenon.

Better reflector, enclosed body doesn't let light escape, bi-xenon like mentioned, and a better lens. Going to take a tiny bit of work to get them mounted in but sort of the only option for upgrades.

Then just wet sand and polish the plastic and treat with something like opti-lens (not cheap but little goes a long way)

Great that sounds like something I need to do now too. Can you eloborate a little more on this retrofit. I went to theretrofitsource and searched under a 2002 allroad and the only thing that poped up was a 3" ZKW-R

Also, I know bi-xenon was offered on the FL a6 as I have seen it on our 04 4.2, but how do you retrofit the signal to tell it to flip the lense to full on when the high beams are turned on on an allroad? Does the bi-xenon flapper motor or whatnot tap into the hi-beam on/off wire or something?

[chris86vw]

Great that sounds like something I need to do now too. Can you eloborate a little more on this retrofit. I went to theretrofitsource and searched under a 2002 allroad and the only thing that poped up was a 3" ZKW-R

Also, I know bi-xenon was offered on the FL a6 as I have seen it on our 04 4.2, but how do you retrofit the signal to tell it to flip the lense to full on when the high beams are turned on on an allroad? Does the bi-xenon flapper motor or whatnot tap into the hi-beam on/off wire or something?

I'm in the everything is pieces and I keep working on other things phase.. so I don't have all the answers just yet.


Allegedly a 3" projector will fit in the AR housing I saw a build thread on one of the lighting forums where someone did it. So something like the 3" evo lights (someone just linked to I Forget where) in theory almost bolt directly up to the 3" late A6 lights, if the bolt pattern is the same they may bolt directly to the 2.5 early lights or allroad lights. So the ZKW-R is one that might bolt up to a 3" and possibly the E55 (I think that is what it is called) I've seen installs of but that took a little modifying of mounts.

What some people do is bolt threaded rod to the new projector then epoxy that to the shroud part of the factory light. This obviously works but you kind of get one shot. Some lights you can rotate the reflector/cut off in relation to the mounting holes to align them others you cannot. The ones I'm using you can't so I need it to be lined up first time. My plan is to make aluminum tabs that go from the factory holes to the holes that fit my new projectors, that is where I have left off and just drew up the other day to make sure no holes overlapped in a complicated way (on another computer I"ll post later).

There is also the issue with front to back, like if the mounting surface to front of the lens is different you need to account for that or it makes making thick mounting tabs impossible due to it changing height. So it can be a little tricky.

Since nothing really is a straight bolt in to these lights I think they are hesitant to say this is a direct plug and play kit like some other cars have.

As for the bi-xenon flap, yes taps into high beam signal, you can get splitters that plug between the high beam bulb harness and split it to like an amp connector and then the other side is an H7 (or whatever your bulb is) to plug back into the stock light. It is a very low draw motor on the flap so if you are using stock wattage high beam bulbs should not be an issue. This is all most factory systems do anyway, share that circuit. If you were running higher wattage high beams I"d probably use the stock signal to trigger the flapper and then relay the new high beam bulbs, safest way to do that but uncommon for most here. I'll probably just tap into the high beam + wire for the flap, no need to spend money on a fancy splitter when it is all apart and I can easily work with the harness :)




Many of the projectors are clones (or refurbs) of the vehicle they are based off hence the names of like FX (infinity) and evo... self explanatory.

[LakeTahoeQuattr]

My allroad actually had halogens and I was able to retrofit OEM parts into my old housings and now they are stock allroad style xenons. I am not a huge fan of baking the lights so I did the retrofit thru the back door and assembled all the lense stuff and stuff inside the housing. I remember how much of a pita it was. I am gonna wait for you to do this one first and ill follow

[chris86vw]

My allroad actually had halogens and I was able to retrofit OEM parts into my old housings and now they are stock allroad style xenons. I am not a huge fan of baking the lights so I did the retrofit thru the back door and assembled all the lense stuff and stuff inside the housing. I remember how much of a pita it was. I am gonna wait for you to do this one first and ill follow

Ha yeah I took the first light apart without pulling the lens.. then there was no way to get the new one in without taking it apart. It has been probably 15 years since I did it and it was less scary than I recall.

I did notice on my parts car that the projector mounting did seem to be identical and was wondering if you could just bolt in the actual xenon assembly in place of the one for the filament bulb, cool to know it's possible.. anyone want some face lift halogen housings missing the wiring harness and with ugly dripping spray tint?? :)

I really need to get moving on my allroad, one tdi goes back on the 30th and the other the 6th, I have other cars but the wagons are the road trip vehicles and one can only drive their "race"car everyday for so long.... So I should make progress on the lights sometime in the next week will post up whatever solution I come up with.

[G_Wagon]

I know Depo makes a set of xenon ecode headlights for the c5 a6 facelift...
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-depo-par...1114pxndhm1~d/
And here is a mesh badge less, u can ad badge, grill for the c5 a6 facelift...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01MD...=audi+c5+grill

[G_Wagon]

Anyone know where to find a lower mesh grill and fog lights??
Does the c5 rs6 grill fit on the c5 a6 without any mods?

[V1nny]

I know Depo makes a set of xenon ecode headlights for the c5 a6 facelift...
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-depo-par...1114pxndhm1~d/
And here is a mesh badge less, u can ad badge, grill for the c5 a6 facelift...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01MD...=audi+c5+grill

love look and price of this grill, wish it could be fit to allroad, bu I know they are different.

As to your questions, I saw plenty of cheap A6 fog lights on ebay, like these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-H11-Car-F...-/391688332401

[Grainreaper]

I know it's off the headlight topic, but since fogs were brought up, I have a 2000 A6, I've realized the factory fogs are little more than glowing orbs in the lower grilles, is this because of the wee little size? the bulb type? I was thinking of getting a set of clear lens re pops off fleabay and adding some high watt Cree LEDs. Am I wasting my cash on replacements? Do just brighter bulbs make a difference? The bulbs that are in them are new, the reflectors are not burnt up, lenses are clean, they just suck as anything more than a kids nightlight.

[2.5TDi_AR]

I'm doing the exact same thing with the xenon headlights on my 2002 allroad. I started this retrofit in 2007 and bought 2.5" FX-R's ver 1.0 with Philips D2S 85122+ bulbs. I wish I had the space to build a proper rig for checking alignment, etc.

Right now I have the OEM allroad 2.5" xenon low beam and halogen high beam headlights opened up along with an OEM A6 facelift 3" halogen low and high beam headlights. The earlier headlights are sealed with butyl, which can be opened with a hairdryer. The later ones with Perma-seal which need to be baked.

If you've opened up your headlights you can fit almost any bi-xenon projector. Wouter at https://www.retrofitlab.com/blog/aud...ox-r-retrofit/ has developed some cool brackets for the facelift A6. So you can fit 3" E55 projectors with a sharp cutoff and beautiful blue colour shift.

The FXR will fit the allroad headlights with some custom brackets. I will post some pictures of what's needed to complete the retrofit. BUT, the only way you can remove the stock plastic projectors is to Dremel it in - situ. Which means lots of fine plastic dust in something you want to be dust free.

From testing in the house working on the correct amount of shims to space the bowl away from the lens and tweaking the cutoff shield you can get gorgeous blue colour shift along the cutoff line up to 8" thick at 15m or a razor sharp cutoff that cuts through the darkness like a knife. Lots of info and images at HID Planet Forum at The Retrofit Source.

I've semi-mocked up a test rig where I've fitted facelift lights (3" projector) and chrome mounting plate in the allroad pre facelift housing. It doesn't look 100% yet & needs some work, but if you really want the look of a big projector it's definitely doable.

[2.5TDi_AR]

It's pointless upgrading the stock fresnel lenses to ZKW clear lenses with the stock projectors. The stock projectors have poor quality chrome plated plastic bowls. The light output is seriously impaired. I will post an image of the chrome plated ally bowls of the FXR as a comparison.

But you can use the existing projectors with DIY cutoff shields to make half decent lights, but expect this to take many many hours of tweaking. https://youtu.be/uGER6lkZCVc

[2.5TDi_AR]

Found the link to the YouTube video for the C5 headlights. It is impossible to remove the OEM projectors this way. But you can fit the FX-R 4.0 projectors as per the video https://youtu.be/L5DjK9jlkgI?t=2m35s

[chris86vw]

The FXR will fit the allroad headlights with some custom brackets. I will post some pictures of what's needed to complete the retrofit. BUT, the only way you can remove the stock plastic projectors is to Dremel it in - situ. Which means lots of fine plastic dust in something you want to be dust free.

I"m not sure what you are saying needs to be dremeled to remove the projectors on the allroad lights, mine are out, one removed without taking apart the housing, one removed by baking it open. The 2.5" FX-R projectors fit the existing allroad opening. Do you mean the 3" ones would need the hole dremeled larger?

[2.5TDi_AR]

Even after dismantling the allroad xenon projector in the headlight I just couldn't get it out. The angled bracket would get jammed in and amongst cables, linkages, etc. I ended up using the hairdryer and splitting the headlight.

Yes. If you want to fit 3" bixenon projectors to the allroad then you will need to Dremel out the lens opening. And fit shrouds infront to cover up the hacked up plastic. But, comparing internals from pre and facelift models side-by-side, all of the adjustment tabs line up so it may be possible to make a hybrid headlight with parts from both.

[2.5TDi_AR]

If you watch the sped up video from Retrofitlabs you can see they seperate the xenon projector into 2 parts for removal. In my experience this is impossible to do. If you only need to get the old one out then you can use a Dremel to cut it into smaller pieces or burn it with a soldering iron. The new FXR 4.0 2.5" projectors are significantly smaller and can be squeezed into the opening and mounted without having to bake the headlights.

Unfortunately mine are ver 1.0 which are much bigger. I should have measured the opening and bought the projector to fit, but at the time the cutoff and colour shift looked incredible.

[julex]

You can remove stock projector (2001 allroad) from housing without opening anything, it just takes some maneuvering but it will come out.

The lights are sealed with some rubber sealant that even baking doesn't soften much at all. Opening these is a real chore and lots of knife action is needed. It is pretty much one way road and you will have to use butyl to reseal as original sealant is dry (not tacky at all) even when heated to plastic melting temepratures.

[2.5TDi_AR]

You can see the bracket at the top with 2 red rubber bungs for alignment at the factory. There's only 1 rubber bung at the bottom.



With the projector fitted.



Plan view.



FX-R ver 1.0 needs a custom bracket to mount to the existing holes.



FX-R ver 1.0 showing the solenoid. There's enough space to use the red rubber bung.





Facelift A6 with hole for 3" projector on the bottom and allroad on the top. I have more images on my phone, but uploading them over 4G with patchy service is a nightmare. You can see the mounting points are different. Allegedly the 3" EVOX bixenon projector will bolt up.

[2.5TDi_AR]

** Responded to Julex's post **

Lots of people have said this, maybe I'm just not wired that way, but even after taking the projector apart, i just couldn't get enough wiggle room to get it out.

Luckily mine were sealed with butyl. Some of it had oozed out over time and become brittle. Audi used Perma-Seal on later versions. Nightmare stuff to work with. It's much easier to use a Dremel to carefully cut the headlight in 2 just behind the recessed bit where the clear lens is attached and plastic weld it back together after the retrofit. Easily said than done, i know. Or get some early allroad headlights. I will endeavour to upload more images when i can.

I ended up picking all of the butyl off the headlight housing and lens. I have an image of the ball of black snot somewhere. The trick is to warm up a bit inbetween your fingers, then stick it firmly to the bit on the headlight, roll it back and forth and move on to the next bit. I know. I'm OCD.

[chris86vw]

If you watch the sped up video from Retrofitlabs you can see they seperate the xenon projector into 2 parts for removal. In my experience this is impossible to do. If you only need to get the old one out then you can use a Dremel to cut it into smaller pieces or burn it with a soldering iron.

I removed mine just like the video, unbolted the lens frame from the reflector and it came right out, there are torx screws take it apart. Totally possible without a dremel on the allroad lights.

My FXR 2.5" lights would not fit in hole (like whatever was used in the video) they would need to be disassembled like stock but I didn't want to deal with it and had no issues opening them. In theory they could have fit but not in one piece.

[Niebelheim]

I have a 00 S6 which have the xenon 2.5" lens.
Finding a newer 4.2 headlight with bi-xenon is near to impossible. So I was thinking of changing the chrome reflectors to a 3" lens, then put in the evox bi-xenon.

So my question is:
Are all facelift headlight 3", even the halogen?
If so, then I could get a cheap pair of halogen lights and put the internals in my 4.2 housing.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[LakeTahoeQuattr]

I am still waiting to see the 3" bi-xenon projectors in the allroad housings. Anyone done it yet?