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  1. #1
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Question Considering a 2006 A6 3.2 Avant Quattro Wagon with 80K miles.

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    Before buying I will do a PPI at an indie Audi/VW specialist shop nearby that I trust. Should I also ask for an oil pressure test, and a leakdown test, or is it money down the drain? I know they will scan all the modules and do a complete visual and a test drive.

    I couldn't find good answers to some questions so I am hoping for some pointers:

    0) Is Avant Audi-speak for wagon? I see some that say both Avant and Wagon. Others just say Avant. They seem to be the same vehicles.

    1) is there a writeup on most common problems with this MY/platform? I am aware of a coilpack recall.

    2) couldn't find any info on whether the CVT problems of earlier years are still there. everyone happy with your CVT 300,000 miles later?

    3) are these engines prone to carbon buildup on the intake valves (they are FSIs, correct?) or any other problems involving engine internals?

    4) any owners who are regretting it?

    5) is it possible to DIY these cars? I have VCDS and I am very familiar with most repair procedures on earlier VWs (B5 platform) including timing belt replacement, cam chain adjuster, valve cover and PCV-related issues, CA and TRE replacement, breaks, battery, alternator, etc. What are the things that can only be done at the dealer -- programming remotes, and the like?

    6) I will thoroughly inspect all service records before I buy -- anything in particular I should look for?

    7) how do I access the MPG info on the LCD display? I played around with all the buttons I could find and no dice. There is a knob on the steering wheel next to the mode button but when I turn it the display changes from miles driven to the radio station list, or the telephone (not connected message).

    Any help is much appreciated.

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings Kevin1's Avatar
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    I have pasted in two of my earlier posts, which I have slightly revised and updated. I believe these posts will help show the problem areas on our cars and show what maintenance items to expect as our cars get older and have higher mileage. I have not included the scheduled maintenance, brakes or tires.

    I have an 05 4.2 that I purchased new about 8 years ago. She currently has 127k on the odometer. As far as reliability, she is ok, but she is no Lexus. But she is a lot of fun to drive. Most of the problems have been nuisances.

    1. The airbag light came on two weeks after I purchased the car. It took them 10 days to figure out the problem. Audi then came out with a TSB on updating the computer software for the airbags.

    2. The MMI "crashed" a year after I bought the car. After having the car for 8 days, Audi wiped the hardware clean and reinstalled the MMI computer software.

    3. The MMI had a few bugs with not updating the satellite radio stations, losing surround settings and sometimes not automatically linking with my bluetooth phone. Audi had the car for a day and updated the MMI computer software. Audi has a TSB on this issue as well.

    I have written those three problems off to having a very early computer software version. To give you an idea of the number of changes in the software, my car came with MMI version 10 and now has version 33. Since being updated to MMI version 33, around 2006 or 2007, I have not had any computer issues. I understand that there is now a version 46 that is available. Since my MMI has been stable with version 33 I have not upgraded to 46. From fellow Audi owners I understand that the differences between 33 and 46 are negligible.

    As far as non-computer issues. I have had quite a few.

    1. All 8 coil packs had to be replaced.

    2. The lid for the gas cap would not open from inside the car. In order to open it I had to wedge my credit card inside the lid and open it from the outside.

    3. The frame for the front passenger seat came loose and the entire seat had to be removed and the bolts tightened.

    4. A rattle in the glove box area of the dashboard that required installation of additional insulation.

    5. A bad tire pressure sensor had to be replaced.

    6. A mildew smell from the air conditioner vents, which required the replacement of a ventilation duct.

    7. A rattle from the rear fold down seats, which required a new clamp.

    8. A rattle from the driver’s side of the dashboard, which required additional damping material.

    9. The fuel-filter recall, which required a new fuel filter.

    10. The fuel gauge started reading empty even though there is fuel in the tank, which required a computer software upgrade.

    11. The transmission developed a chirping and the transmission software had to be upgraded.

    12. The low coolant light would come on for no reason, which required an upgraded electrical circuit.

    13. The power steering reservoir leaked and completely emptied itself, which required a revised clamp.

    14. The front brakes developed a vibration at slow speeds and the brake caliper seals had to be replaced due to a re-design.

    15. The motor for the power tilt/telescoping steering wheel had to be replaced because of a groaning noise.

    16. The MMI knob fell off.

    50,000 MILE MARK – 3 ½ YEARS

    17. The motor for the rear power sunshade had to be replaced because that motor was groaning and clicking.

    18. The coolant temperature gauge stopped working and the sensor had to be replaced.

    19. The trunk latch ceased working and had to be replaced with a redesigned latch.

    20. The adaptive headlight malfunction light came on and the dealer had to upgrade the software for the adaptive lights.

    21. The air bag light came on and the rear air bag sensor had to be replaced for a second time.

    22. The Parktronic speaker broke and had to be replaced.

    23. The coolant gauge broke again and the sensor had to be replaced.

    24. The coolant gauge broke yet again and the thermostat had to be replaced.

    25. All four dampers were replaced.

    26. The gas struts for the trunk were replaced.

    27. The air bag light came on and rear air bag sensor had to be replaced for a third time.

    28. The LED unit had to be replaced in the rear right because the brake and turn signal light would fail to fire.

    29. The coil packs were replaced under recall.

    30. The air bag light came on and a rear air bag sensor had to be replaced for a fourth time.

    31. The brackets holding the electric switch panel to the front passenger seat broke and had to be replaced.

    32. The air bag light returned and the dealer upgraded the software yet again.

    33. An upper control arms was replaced.

    34. The motor for the power tilt/telescoping steering wheel had to be replaced yet again.

    35. The air bag light came on and a rear air bag sensor had to be replaced for a fifth time.

    36. The entire steering column had to be replaced.

    37. The oil pressure sensor had to be replaced.

    38. The air bag light came on yet again and this time the right rear supplemental (optional) air bag was replaced.

    100,000 MILE MARK – 7 YEARS

    39. Battery replaced for the first time.

    40. The fuel filter was replaced.

    41. The coil packs were replaced.

    42. The LED unit had to be replaced in the rear left because the brake and turn signal light would fail to fire.

    43. Right side motor mount was replaced.

    44. All 4 upper control arms were replaced.

    45. Both front sway bar links were replaced.

    46. Gas strut for the hood was replaced.

    47. Satellite Radio Module Replaced.

    48. Battery replaced for a second time.

    125,000 MILE MARK – 8 YEARS

    49. All four dampers were replaced.

    50. Rear passenger window regulator was replaced.


    Similar to the computer issues discussed above, Audi has TSBs on nearly all of these issues, seeming to indicate that the problems are not isolated to just my car. Audi has also issued dozens of other TSBs on issues that I have not experienced since I have the 4.2 engine instead of the 3.2 engine. In total, the 3.2 has over 200 TSBs. If you complain about these items while the car is under warranty, Audi will fix the problem for free, which sounds like a recall to me.

    Despite the car being at the dealer for 95 days for repairs during the last 100 months, not maintenance, which was an additional 32 days, I would certainly buy the car again because the 4.2 is a lot of fun to drive, especially on the highway, and the dealer gives me a loaner (am guessing that I have put approximately 5,000 miles on loaner cars). As part of purchasing, or owning one of these cars, I would check which MMI software version is in the car. If it is below 33, I would take it to Audi and have it updated as soon as possible. In addition, I would check the car's VIN and compare it to the Audi TSBs and see what issues you need to keep an eye on. You can get copies of the Audi TSBs at Erwin's website or at the site that I set up with Dr.Cold at http://uberlame.com/a6_tsb/ . The dealer will probably give you the car's maintenance records. While the car is still under warranty, I would make sure you complain about any issues contained on the TSBs issued for your VIN. If you decide to purchase an aftermarket warranty I would get an exclusionary warranty that your local Audi dealer accepts.

    Despite the issues with the car, I think that it is a great driving car. However, keep in mind that I am an original owner who paid close to $60,000 cash for my daily driver and who according to my wife is the President of the "More Money than Brains" club. For example, changing the transmission fluid costs over a $1,000 just for the fluid (the fluid is $57 per liter), not including labor. Also keep in mind that the 55,000 mile service is the "major" service for the 4.2. The 75,000 mile service is also significant, in that the nose of the car needs to be removed on the 05 and 06 4.2s. If money is an issue, you may want to look for a car that is cheaper to "maintain". Regardless of your decision, you will enjoy driving an Audi, but you may not enjoy the maintenance. Good luck.

    Kevin

    Here is my post in response to a related topic:

    I am afraid that Audi has TSBs on nearly every one of the problems that I experienced indicating that I am not alone with these issues. As far as not hearing about these issues on the forum, I point out that I am one of the few original C6 owners on the forum with the corresponding 8 plus years of experience in owning one of these cars. I doubt that when these cars are purchased used that the original owners are so honest with the buyers. With that said, I think that the C6 is a great driving car and is a lot of fun on the highway. I would also buy it all over again. You just need to make sure that you are carrying some type of warranty coverage.

    Kevin
    19 years and 320,000 miles behind the wheel of an Audi

    2022 A6 55 3.0 Prestige with Luxury Package and Black Optic Sport Package (all options). Daytona Gray Pearl Effect. Sarder Brown Interior. (July 2022 - presesent)

    RIP Audis
    2015 A6 TDI Prestige All Options except B&O - (August 2014 - July 2022) (146,179 miles)

    2005 A6 4.2 Prestige All Options - (February 2005 - August 2014) (141,179 miles)

  3. #3
    Active Member Two Rings
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    I have a 2006 sedan with the 3.2 and have enjoyed it for the past 2 years without any maintenance concerns. I'm around 108,000 on the odometer right now. Everything that I have read and heard has suggested the yes, Avant is "Wagon" in Audi lingo. I cannot help with the majority of your questions but as far as changing the cluster LCD screen info there should be a small button on the bottom of your windshield wiper lever. When you push the button it changes the different options and when you hold it down it rests things likes miles traveled, time and avg. mpg.

    I wish you the best with your search and welcome to the forum. I'm sure some of the other members will give you some good insight to the rest of your questions.

    Ryan

  4. #4
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Kevin, Ryan, thank you for the great information!

    Kevin, I am going to go through the website you mentioned and re-read everything you posted as I drill into the service records.

    Ryan, I looked for the button on the underside of the wiper stalk switch (that's where the A4 B5s had it also) -- there wasn't one. Just to get an idea, what kind of mileage do you get on your sedan? I realize having a wagon and quattro means lower mileage, but the specs give it a fairly decent 27mpg highway, and I am wondering how close that is to real life. On an A4 that I kept in excellent shape mileage was about as advertised (based both on the LCD and paper and pencil records).

    I will be doing another longer test drive and will take some pics to post for any more questions I have.

    Thank you again.

  5. #5
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Mine has the Quattro as well. Around town I usually get low 20's but on highway trips I get around 28-30mpg. I have never seen anything higher than 31mpg. I have noticed that my around town is getting closer to the mid 20's now that I have moved from the Mountains back to the foothills/coast but not by much.

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings D's Avant's Avatar
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    Avant is Audi speak for wagon and there is an Avant's only section on here too.

    Had a B5 Avant for 13+ years and now the C6 Avant with just over 60K and no real problems other than the normal mait here and there and of course the few recalls for coil packs and a software update. Really, REALLY like my Avant and not sure what I am going to get next way down the road as Audi has abandoned the Avant market here in the US which equals fail to me. Would love to pick-up a C7 Avant down the road, just not going to happen.

    I get mid to low 20 MPG in town and 28-30 MPG on the highway for the most part at 75+ MPH or so. Great size for having people in the car and comfort is really pretty good for those sitting in the back seat too.
    Current '08 A6 Avant S-Line
    Former '99 A4 Avant 1.8t

  7. #7
    Active Member Two Rings
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    I got back from looking at this car again, visually, and a longish test drive. I didn't really push the car to any limits per se. Some moderately fast acceleration, about 10 miles of highway, and some streets with patched up pavement. Handling wise it looks and feels great.

    Engine wise, I did hear some ticking on the driver-side bank, so not sure if this is normal (injectors firing away), or something like the cam chain.

    There are visible signs of something that looks like a really good oil leak on that same side, and down below on the belly pan between the radiator and belt/pulleys. I will hopefully know more about this from the records (which I will get to see sometime later this week). Supposedly this car has been serviced only by the dealer, and a couple of things done at some very reputable specialist shop. Paying top dollar for service you'd hope they'd at least wipe up the oil stains after fixing an oil leak, etc.

    The CVT feels excellent, although I am a little confused as to why it behaves like an old school automatic where the RPM needle drops down when it switches over to higher "gear" (i.e., different ratio, which from what I read should be almost imperceptible on very gentle acceleration, which is how I tested it). It is probably just me not knowing enough about how the CVT and engine interact as I press the pedal. Also, from a stop, there is a very small delay from when you press the gas pedal and when the car starts moving. Is this the CVT and engine figuring out if you want torque v. horsepower?

    The coolant is below minimum. Fixing it is easy, the why is more important.

    The electronic stuff (cluster and MMI) worry me though.

    The passenger airbag is off. I couldn't figure out if it was deactivated on purpose, or if there is a fault.

    When you start the car the MMI screen prompts you for the language. Every time. Really?

    After you start the car, the cluster LCD says Service!, for some brief period, and I think I saw it again when I was driving.

    I went through the menus and couldn't see what version of the MMI software it was running. It said Navi is not installed.

    A couple of other questions:

    1) how do you turn off the automatic climate control system? I turned the driver side fan down to 1, but I still felt a faint amount of cold or warm at times.

    2) still couldn't get it to show MPG. The wiper switch has only one adjustment wheel facing the driver. I will figure out where to upload the pics and post links later.

    3) between the cluster and MMI screen there are three buttons: reset odometer, 'Check' and i think a button to adjust cluster illumination? What does the check button do? could it be that someone pressed that button and as a result the Service! message shows?

    I suppose the mechanic will have more answers on much of this (scheduled for later this week) but if anyone has answers in the meantime, I'd appreciate it.

    D thank you for the pointer to the Avant section. I missed it! FYI, VW will be bring out Passat wagon again but won't make it available in NA.

    One more thought. I am well aware that many owners misrepresent their cars, hence the really rigorous due diligence I am putting this through. I can understand some of this (I am sure it must be a shock to have paid 45-60 grand for a car only to find out it is worth in the teens only seven years later), but at the same time, I am seeing some deliberate masking/misrepresentation of a few things on this one, and I need to find out if they are small things or really major ones. I don't have a problem offering more than asking for this car if it all checks out well. There are many positives too, i.e., it was kept in almost new shape externally, but it's the internals that matter more. Never thought I'd like vanilla-white so much (and apologies for not knowing the exotic name Audi came up with).

    Thank you again for all your help.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings SinCityA6's Avatar
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    @SFB5
    - Passenger side airbag stays off unless someone sits in the passenger seat. Was there a passenger in the car when you drove it?
    - MMI language preference should be able to be fixed with software update/VAGCOM.
    - Three buttons between speedo and LCD: Trip reset, cluster dim/bright, check to check status of various warnings/indicators.
    - Service! means that the 10K/365 day service reminder was not reset at last service or it is time for service. Can be reset via VAGCOM.
    - MPG/Trip/Instant average, etc is controled by the toggle on the end of the washer stalk. You can reset the various readings by pressing and holding the "reset" button on the bottom of the stalk

    - Turn off Climate Control by pressing and holding the ECON on/off button on the panel (seen in above picture). Turn back on by pressing "Auto" or the recirculate button.
    - MMI version is found under the "Car" menu.
    - Navi may not have been equipped in this car.

    I cant give any feedback regarding CVT trans since I have never owned one. As for the throttle lag, I have heard that this is somewhat normal with the CVT. However, the throttle body "learns" the driving habits of the driver and adjusts. The throttle body can be reset via VAGCOM so it can adapt to your driving style/habits.
    Last edited by SinCityA6; 08-10-2013 at 05:21 PM.
    '09 C6.5 A6
    M: 3.0t, GIAC/AWE Stg II+, Roc*Euro Intake
    I: Soul Black, CF Trim, LEDs, Paddles, C7 Shifter, Escort 9500i, Blackvue Dashcam
    E: Ibis White, 15% Tint, Smoked Corners, Tinted Tails, S4 Rockers, S6 Blades, RS6 Grill, OEM Splitters (F/R)
    S: H&R Springs/Sways, Koni FSDs, Adams Rotors, Akebono Pads, SS Brake Lines, Paint Matched Calipers, Niche Misano M116 Wheels

  9. #9
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Pics link.

    Here are some photos of the wiper switch:

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sred...vAE&feat=email

    The reset button and rocker switch at the end are missing. I am guessing there is another way?

    Curiously, the cruise control functionality is on a separate stalk switch on the left, hanging below the turn signal switch. I was accustomed to it being integrated into the turn signal switch.

    Also, anyone know how I can get my hands on an A6 owner's manual? Search comes up with nothing reliable.
    Last edited by SFB5; 08-10-2013 at 10:42 PM. Reason: fixed link

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings Kevin1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFB5 View Post
    Here are some photos of the wiper switch:

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sred...vAE&feat=email

    The reset button and rocker switch at the end are missing. I am guessing there is another way?

    Curiously, the cruise control functionality is on a separate stalk switch on the left, hanging below the turn signal switch. I was accustomed to it being integrated into the turn signal switch.

    Also, anyone know how I can get my hands on an A6 owner's manual? Search comes up with nothing reliable.
    The trip computer was an option, you may not have it.
    19 years and 320,000 miles behind the wheel of an Audi

    2022 A6 55 3.0 Prestige with Luxury Package and Black Optic Sport Package (all options). Daytona Gray Pearl Effect. Sarder Brown Interior. (July 2022 - presesent)

    RIP Audis
    2015 A6 TDI Prestige All Options except B&O - (August 2014 - July 2022) (146,179 miles)

    2005 A6 4.2 Prestige All Options - (February 2005 - August 2014) (141,179 miles)

  11. #11
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Thanks Kevin, that makes sense. A bit of a disappointment there.

    I should take a pic of the sticker in the spare tire well. It should tell me exactly what this car came with.

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings SinCityA6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFB5 View Post
    Here are some photos of the wiper switch:

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sred...vAE&feat=email

    The reset button and rocker switch at the end are missing. I am guessing there is another way?

    Curiously, the cruise control functionality is on a separate stalk switch on the left, hanging below the turn signal switch. I was accustomed to it being integrated into the turn signal switch.

    Also, anyone know how I can get my hands on an A6 owner's manual? Search comes up with nothing reliable.
    Interesting. Looks like the vehicle was not equipped with this function. The location of the cruise control is typical for our cars. As for the owners manual, have you attempted to contact Audi for one?
    '09 C6.5 A6
    M: 3.0t, GIAC/AWE Stg II+, Roc*Euro Intake
    I: Soul Black, CF Trim, LEDs, Paddles, C7 Shifter, Escort 9500i, Blackvue Dashcam
    E: Ibis White, 15% Tint, Smoked Corners, Tinted Tails, S4 Rockers, S6 Blades, RS6 Grill, OEM Splitters (F/R)
    S: H&R Springs/Sways, Koni FSDs, Adams Rotors, Akebono Pads, SS Brake Lines, Paint Matched Calipers, Niche Misano M116 Wheels

  13. #13
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Hi folks,

    I pulled up the version info on the MMI and it shows: SW: C6-HU 6360 11.9.0 0513
    Does this mean it is still on version 11.x?

    Also, from reading about the TSBs it seems that some of them have a time window beyond which the owner gets to pay for the work (parts? labor? both?). Did I get this right? Some of the TSBs I've read describe exactly some of the problems I noticed and the VIN matches also.

    From reading up on all this, it seems the dealers will not bother to check if your vehicle falls within any of the more serious TSBs even if they service it regularly and could easily notice rough idle, constant ticking noise from the engine, or lag when applying the gas pedal. I know the car had the coilpack recall completed (sticker under the hood with SAGA code 28F2) but my guess is that it was done because the owner received a letter from Audi.

    Thank you, as always.

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings SinCityA6's Avatar
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    TSBs are covered while the car is under warranty (factory or CPO) but not covered when out of warranty. In my experience, if there is a TSB on the car, the service advisor will notify me of it ONLY when I take the car in for service. Audi does not actively send out notices to the owners unless its a recall.

    Take the VIN to an Audi service center and have them tell you which Recall/TSBs were performed in the car and which ones are yet to be done. They should have no issue telling you, put they will not give you a print out due to privacy issues.
    '09 C6.5 A6
    M: 3.0t, GIAC/AWE Stg II+, Roc*Euro Intake
    I: Soul Black, CF Trim, LEDs, Paddles, C7 Shifter, Escort 9500i, Blackvue Dashcam
    E: Ibis White, 15% Tint, Smoked Corners, Tinted Tails, S4 Rockers, S6 Blades, RS6 Grill, OEM Splitters (F/R)
    S: H&R Springs/Sways, Koni FSDs, Adams Rotors, Akebono Pads, SS Brake Lines, Paint Matched Calipers, Niche Misano M116 Wheels

  15. #15
    Active Member Two Rings
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    SinCity thanks for weighing in on this.

    Yes, I wouldn't expect the dealer or Audi to notify the owners for every TSB out there (they are not public information although thankfully they get leaked). My question is, if there is an applicable TSB for your VIN, do you have to also mention the symptoms, or do they check that you have the symptoms? If the owner takes it in but never mentions anything about a rough idle when cold, would the dealer apply the TSB?

    I went to the Audi dealer yesterday and it was a colossal waste of time. I was about to get the current owner on the phone to authorize disclosure of the maintenance history, verbally at least, but they wouldn't do it unless the owner is there in person! ("they are like medical records"). They wouldn't type in the VIN to tell me anything (build sheet, TSBs completed, anything at all). The real deal was when I asked for the maintenance schedule of 2006 A6 Avant quattros. The answer: "the schedule is maintenance every 10,000 miles". I have met French waiters that were far more helpful than that.

    EDIT: link to maintenance schedule: https://wiki.bentleypublishers.com/d...A6%2C+A6+Avant

    I asked them what they charge for pre-purchase inspection. $249 (sounds reasonable) for everything except compression test. When I asked what everything means and if it includes an oil pressure test they were evasive.

    EDIT: here is one CPO checklist I found (PDF): http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...vwtsVpBkgvUjSg

    If anyone can confirm that I am reading the version shown on the MMI properly, I'd appreciate it.
    SW: C6-HU 6360 11.9.0 0513

    Are they up to version 40-something now?


    Thank you to all for helping out here.
    Last edited by SFB5; 08-20-2013 at 04:54 AM. Reason: added url to maint schedule

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings SinCityA6's Avatar
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    It was my understanding that the TSB would automattically be addressed when the car was brought in for service (if still under warranty). But I may be wrong on that.

    Some dealers do get very "protective" of privacy issues. But generally, they will say what work has been don, just not any "personally identifyable" information. If you want to PM me the VIN, I will see if my service advisor will provide some info.

    As for the inspection fee, $250 sounds reasonable. I would ask if the Recall/TSB history is reveiwed and any outstanding issues would then be disclosed.
    '09 C6.5 A6
    M: 3.0t, GIAC/AWE Stg II+, Roc*Euro Intake
    I: Soul Black, CF Trim, LEDs, Paddles, C7 Shifter, Escort 9500i, Blackvue Dashcam
    E: Ibis White, 15% Tint, Smoked Corners, Tinted Tails, S4 Rockers, S6 Blades, RS6 Grill, OEM Splitters (F/R)
    S: H&R Springs/Sways, Koni FSDs, Adams Rotors, Akebono Pads, SS Brake Lines, Paint Matched Calipers, Niche Misano M116 Wheels

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings Dutch_A6's Avatar
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    I'd be hesitant to buy a vehicle from a dealer that was that evasive over information that should be available and make a deal easier to do. My dealer gave me everything I asked for without any hesitation to make sure that I knew that the car was cared for and properly maintained. I guess it just depends on where you are I guess, makes me appreciate my dealer a little more.
    Black 2012 A7 Prestige

    Zito ZF01 wheels
    EPL stage 2 tune
    Tinted marker lights
    Roc Euro intake
    AWE touring exhaust
    APR CPS

  18. #18
    Active Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Jul 08 2013
    AZ Member #
    118551
    Location
    California

    Dutch, you are correct, I am very hesitant. This is sold by a private party though.

    As far as dealer experiences, here in the SF bay area we have not had any luck with any of the different makes of cars we have owned and most of my friends a colleagues concur -- they just don't care it seems. I always read with envy about great dealer service in other parts of the country. I had a great experience once with a VW/Audi dealership in Southern CA when we were on a road trip.

    SinCity thank you for the offer.

    It's a very classy group here.

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