2013 Audi S4 AWD vs 2013 Volvo S60 T6 AWD R-Design! - MotoTrend Head 2 Head

**100Daily** · 06-05-2013 07:16 AM

Lets see whats Jonny Lieberman has to say what the Audi has to offer versus the Volvo S60

**drob23** · 06-05-2013 07:56 AM

Haha, nice video...seemed like the reviewer really wanted to like the Volvo more but couldn't take down the S4. Funny that he never mentioned the difference between the AWD systems considering how focused/technical he got with engine layout - mechanical torsen 40/60 center diff + active rear vs Haldex FWD based. Would think think this might have something to do with the figure 8 time/lateral accel differences considering how much heavier + "bad engine weight distribution" the S4 has.

**Deep Sea S4** · 06-05-2013 08:16 AM

Polestar is the Volvo software tuner, does this one have that ECU mod on it or is that standard on an R design S60

If it does I'd love to see it retested against an APR or other ECU tune. That would be a treat

**jasonE30m3** · 06-05-2013 08:25 AM

The looks alone of that Volvo would make me walk away from it. I really don't like the design that Volvo has now. And that is coming from a guy who had an '04 S60R and LOVED it.

**Toecutter** · 06-05-2013 08:35 AM

Make sure you stick around for his commentary during the end credits.

**itzjonjon69** · 06-05-2013 08:38 AM

lol i love this guy

**zcd2.7t** · 06-05-2013 08:42 AM

So, he clearly wanted the Volvo to win, but the S4 is simply THAT good. Yep, we knew that already, but it's nice to see Lieberman admit it.

It's ironic that his disaffection with Audi is so evident now, since it was a piece about the B7 RS4 that he wrote for "The Truth About Cars" (wherein he waxed poetic about it) that got him noticed at bigger/better media outlets.

It's also worth mentioning that he nearly peed himself over the R8 V10+ Spyder. :-)

**BrianV** · 06-05-2013 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by Deep Sea S4

Polestar is the Volvo software tuner, does this one have that ECU mod on it or is that standard on an R design S60

If it does I'd love to see it retested against an APR or other ECU tune. That would be a treat

All R-Designs come with Polestar tune done at port. 325 LB/354 LB-FT, that's up 25 HP and 29 tq.

I have an XC60 T6 R-Design, which has the same engine. It really is a nice engine, quite different than the S4's engine which is also nice. The power in the S4 is more linear, where the T6 Polestar is more swooshing and more characteristically turbo-charged, although it has almost no lag.

The Haldex unit in the Volvo can't hold a candle to the torsen system when it comes to pure traction on the road. This is probably the biggest reason the S4 makes a better sports car. Both have torque vectoring, but Audi's sport-diff is better than Volvo's standard brake-based torque vectoring, although I often get surprised at how well the torque vectoring works on our XC60.

I test drove an S60 RD before buying the S4, the lack of manual transmission and the Haldex were the deal breakers for me. Otherwise, i really liked it. I liked it so much that I bought my wife the XC60 RD. For an SUV, I don't want manual and I don't care so much about the AWD system's street performance.

The Volvo gets knocked a lot for its Sensus infotainment system, but I find it to be pretty darn good. It's simpler than MMI and has just as many features.

**MrFunk** · 06-05-2013 09:16 AM

No Comparo here.. Not in the same class... would be funny to have compared a STaSIS tuned S4 to that Polestar tuned Volvo...

Funny how he thinks stock the S4 is 400hp! LOL - um, no... but a nice complement regardless...
I do agree that the steering does suck in the new 13's... it's really really disapointing and I hope they can fix that somehow.
All in all it's a complementary review of the S4 which wins yet another side/side. I don't think I've seen one it has not won...

**BrianV** · 06-05-2013 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by MrFunk

Funny how he thinks stock the S4 is 400hp! LOL - um, no... but a nice complement regardless...
I do agree that the steering does suck in the new 13's... it's really really disapointing and I hope they can fix that somehow.
All in all it's a complementary review of the S4 which wins yet another side/side. I don't think I've seen one it has not won...

Yeah 400 is a bit overzealous, but not too far off. Many people have dyno'd 320-330 WHP. With a 20% drivetrain loss, that puts horsepower in the ~380-395 range.

I feel one major reason 333 HP was chosen was because when this engine came out, the S5 still had the V8 which made 340HP, and they didn't want to have the less expensive S4 have more power than the V8 S5. BMW also did this with the 300HP N54/N55, as they were still selling a 333 HP M3. Prior to the N54 and this S4 engine, I don't think the German's were really that bad about underrating, I think they got caught with lineup issues with their new super powerful FI'd engines, and had to make marketing decisions to lower the number to preserve older more expensive models.

**SteveYem** · 06-05-2013 09:36 AM

I'm not even going to watch the video. It's irrelevant to me. I would rather go slow in my Audi than any speed in that other hideous mess.

**JPB8S4** · 06-05-2013 09:43 AM

I owned a 07 S4, lost it when I made the mrs, into the ex back in '08, and since then I have owned a mkv gti, 08 super duty, and a 2013 jeep wrangler rubicon... I am in the process of turning in the shit jeep for sex on wheels a 2013 Audi S4 fully loaded (premuim prestige, sport diff, active suspension, mmi, etc... all options :) ) anyways, I watched this video and laughed, it's like he bags on the s4 the whole time and in the end the audi wins. I have owned a lot of different cars. I have never once sat behind the wheel and been gitty like a school as I was on the test drive the other day. I thought I was going to just walk away because not a V-8, but no, infact I already ordered the USPmotorsports 4" intake (they dyno it against a rok-euro intake as the "competion" and come out on top.) anyways... audi for the win, and I am new to audizine, so I look forward to seeing what you guys have to say :) happy motoring

**oc cc** · 06-05-2013 09:50 AM

This was not even in the same class. The only car that can compete with the S4 is the 335is. In that case, the Audi might not come out unscathed.....

**MrFunk** · 06-05-2013 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by BrianV

Yeah 400 is a bit overzealous, but not too far off. Many people have dyno'd 320-330 WHP. With a 20% drivetrain loss, that puts horsepower in the ~380-395 range.

As far as I've seen the majority of stock S4's dyno closer to 300 awhp - which is closer to 360 crank.

**MrFunk** · 06-05-2013 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by SteveYem

I'm not even going to watch the video. It's irrelevant to me. I would rather go slow in my Audi than any speed in that other hideous mess.

LOL - you're giving the hideous mess way too much credit! It's far slower than your slow S4.

**SuperCereal 3.0** · 06-05-2013 09:54 AM

Great video. I really didn't notice any issues with steering when I test drove the S4 multiple times. As for the fun factor; that's what manual is for :)

**Vogz** · 06-05-2013 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by MrFunk

As far as I've seen the majority of stock S4's dyno closer to 300 awhp - which is closer to 360 crank.

I dyno'd 320awhp

I also trapped as high as 108mph stock which requires near 400hp in a 3800+lb car.

**ralniv** · 06-05-2013 04:04 PM

That was a fun review to watch and he made a few valid critiques of the S4. For example, he mentioned the "disconnected" and "numb" feeling of the steering. To some enthusiasts, this is blasphemy. To others (myself included), a precise, yet soft, steering feel is a highly valued attribute. I don't subscribe to Johnny's aversion to German "Darth Vader" interiors, but I can see his point about the deluge of buttons that accompany the knob on the center stack. It was a bit intimidating at first, but its easy to come up the learning curve after a few drives. Johnny also praised and criticized the DSG, and I think many of us would agree with him. It's a gem of a transmission compared to most other cars (the Volvo included), but it isn't quite as good as the DCT in a BMW M3 or Audi R8's DSG. Then again, both of those are higher-end models than an S4.

His projection of horsepower on the S4 was amusing.... 440 hp. I wish! His uber-fast 0-60 is more about the monster torque this engine makes, a solid AWD system, and the gem of a transmission.

**brbarrett** · 06-05-2013 04:05 PM

blah blah blah i hate audi.... thats all I heard. I think, don't hold me to this, he may be biased

**kareemcheese** · 06-05-2013 06:21 PM

that was entertaining... especially his internal struggle at the end

**BrianV** · 06-05-2013 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by ralniv

I don't subscribe to Johnny's aversion to German "Darth Vader" interiors, but I can see his point about the deluge of buttons that accompany the knob on the center stack. It was a bit intimidating at first, but its easy to come up the learning curve after a few drives.

I also don't mind and actually enjoy the darth vader interior. It makes you think you're in something special. However, I test drove a Q5 with a similar interior and found it too dark and off-putting for my wife's next SUV. So I think it works in a sports car package, but in a traditional sedan or SUV, it really is dark and intimidating.

**adbender** · 06-05-2013 06:58 PM

He comes across as cold to Audis but he Jonny friggin loved the R8 V10 Spyder.

**dbX79** · 06-05-2013 07:07 PM

I liked the review. He's not biased and points out the good and bass of both. We need more reviews like this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Dave-B8S4** · 06-05-2013 09:46 PM

Lol the part when he compares the s4 trans to the r8 trans. one would think a car that costs basically 2x what the s4 costs would have a more advanced transmission.

Also i definitely do not agree with the interior being "too dark".

the commentary at the end of the clip was great. haha

**Chiguanodude** · 06-06-2013 01:11 AM

man. that was entertaining. i agree with all of you he was trying so hard not to like the audi lol

**NWS4Guy** · 06-06-2013 09:54 AM

Decent review, but as others said he was trying to make the field seem more level than it was. What was with spending 5-7 minutes talking about how the Audi engine hangs WAY over the front axles, and makes the car plow and understeer? Sport Diff almost totally negates this, you can even see him smoking the back tires as the rear rotates on the figure 8. Then let's look at the figure 8 numbers, where they were STILL talking about how much better the Volvo was in it:

S4: 24.9sec @ .78G's
Volvo: 25.6sec @ .74G's

So for all that BS, the S4 still smoked the lighter car, which supposedly was better setup in the turns? Seriously? As an automotive journalist, where people are primarily number driven - you just made your perceptions and data points about how a car should be setup, come out as proving you don't know what you are talking about.

**L0U** · 06-06-2013 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by adbender

He comes across as cold to Audis but he Jonny friggin loved the R8 V10 Spyder.

He was blown away by the S8 as well. Called himself an audi fanboy after driving it. hehe

**buzztt** · 06-06-2013 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by jasonE30m3

The looks alone of that Volvo would make me walk away from it. I really don't like the design that Volvo has now. And that is coming from a guy who had an '04 S60R and LOVED it.

this

the s60r was a really good looking car, that new thing looks f'ing terrible

**oc cc** · 06-06-2013 11:05 AM

Honestly, as good of a car as the Volvo is (and it is absolutely fantastic, almost got one over my avant, but my fetish for wagons overcame!) it cannot be compared to an S4. In fact, like I said, the only TRUE competitor is not even a 335i, but a 335IS.

**Aisha123456** · 06-06-2013 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by 100Daily

Lets see whats Jonny Lieberman has to say what the Audi has to offer versus the Volvo S60

Why are people sooooooo OBSESSED with all these tunes...STASIS....blah, blah, blah....website claiming that you pay me $1600 dollar and I will get you car from 0-60 in 4.4 secs...what a SCAM...this stock audi is probably making 400+hp...heck he's getting from 0-60 in 4.4 secs in a STOCK car...

A stock Audi S4 is NOT making 333hp...

A stock BMW 335 is definitely NOT making 300hp...

**S4morris** · 06-06-2013 01:42 PM

Good video. I honestly didn't even consider Volvo when I was shopping for my car, never even entered my mind. Just hard for me to get excited about a Volvo for some reason.

**NWS4Guy** · 06-06-2013 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Aisha123456

Why are people sooooooo OBSESSED with all these tunes...STASIS....blah, blah, blah....website claiming that you pay me $1600 dollar and I will get you car from 0-60 in 4.4 secs...what a SCAM...this stock audi is probably making 400+hp...heck he's getting from 0-60 in 4.4 secs in a STOCK car...

A stock Audi S4 is NOT making 333hp...

A stock BMW 335 is definitely NOT making 300hp...

You obviously don't have one and have never driven a tuned B8 S4.

**Pilfer** · 06-06-2013 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by S4morris

Good video. I honestly didn't even consider Volvo when I was shopping for my car, never even entered my mind. Just hard for me to get excited about a Volvo for some reason.

Yea, my mom drove a Volvo 700 series wagon. That's what Volvo will always be to me. They always talk about understeer with Audi. Does anyone know what the guys and girl who drove the S1 when it was kicking ass on the rally circuits in the 80's had to say about understeer?

**jeffc31337** · 06-06-2013 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by NWS4Guy

You obviously don't have one and have never driven a tuned B8 S4.

Don't feed the trolls! Haha.

Enjoyed this review as one of my coworkers just got a s60 t6(not sure if it's RD or not). I also found the handling discussion silly and pointed out to my coworker as he was complaining about the understeer/plow he was oversteering around the figure 8

**IanVr6** · 06-06-2013 09:29 PM

He probably feels the S4 is so much quicker because of our torque. We have instantaneous torque and continues through the RPM range.

That is what makes you feel fast.

**AWDRKT** · 06-06-2013 10:17 PM

"The Volvo sucks, sucks, suck...(then, at the end) but it's really a fun car." LOL. Sorry dude. S4 FTW and you know it!

**dbX79** · 06-06-2013 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by S4morris

Good video. I honestly didn't even consider Volvo when I was shopping for my car, never even entered my mind. Just hard for me to get excited about a Volvo for some reason.

That brand is like something for college professors and old people. I'd pick Audi over that any day I think most people would too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**dparm** · 06-06-2013 11:11 PM

I don't consider that S60 a competitor to the S4. To the A4, yes.

**Akatsuki...** · 06-07-2013 02:55 AM

I stopped watching as soon as he said he can buy both cars as FWD cars. When did S4s come in FWD?

**bpp** · 06-07-2013 03:42 AM

Originally Posted by Vogz

I dyno'd 320awhp

I also trapped as high as 108mph stock which requires near 400hp in a 3800+lb car.

Interesting, 300/320 whp with a stock unit. 300 with a 6-sp I could accept. Mine dyno'ed (Mustang) at 260 with the dsg. The same tuner did a 6-sp yielding around 300 whp before the tuning.