Pros and Cons S4

[Zamolxes]

Hi guys, I'm new on here. I have been thinking about buying an S4 for some time now prefereably 2006-2008 but I have heard some negative review about them. I heard about the catastrophic engine failures and other problems that they have. Can some of you S4 owners give me some more details about them? I would apprecate it.

[thomasskull666]

Don't be scared or intimidated by what you read about this car and it's engine troubles. Nobody posts when it's running fine, it's when something goes wrong that they post about it.

Keep in mind that the negative reviews/problem threads/catastrophic engine failure reports are a tiny fraction of the number of actual owners of B6/B7 S4s.

My '07 has no issues with 85k miles. Treat it well, and it will do the same for you!

[burdoogo]

There's plenty of useful info on here concerning this subject. If you search, I'm sure you'll find the sorts of answers you're looking for. Off the top of my head, the only negative I can think of is gas mileage. The V8 is thirsty, and the tank is small. I get around 250 miles per tank depending on how I drive.

[dparm]

Honestly, for an enthusiast, it's not a matter of pros-and-cons. It's almost entirely subjective. Drive the car. Drive it a few times. Your gut will tell you if it's the right car for you or not.

[therealet23]

Honesty... Be prepared to spend money in gas...

[auxnbus]

Don't even think about buying the car unless you have enough extra cash to keep it running.
Keeping it fueled is expensive. Don't expect to get much more than 240 miles to a tank.
Oil Changes are expensive. 10 quarts of synthetic will run you at least $60, probably more like $70-80....every 5000 miles.
Certain repairs are very costly - and those issues often arise from an engine that is not properly maintained.
Mods are not cheap if you plan to go that route.

You basically have to ask yourself - is the car worth it to ME? You gotta love it, because it will suck you dry.

[FulhamFTW]

I wouldn't be turned away from these cars at all. Just do your research nad be prepared to spend the time finding the right one with proper sevice history. As someone said, nobody ever posts updates on how awesome their car is doing, only when something goes wrong. But that's the nature of the forum. People mostly look here for advice on how to fix a problem they are having. As Dparm said, just go drive one. that will sureoly be enough for you to make a decision on whether or not you want it.

[ProgMetalHead]

I think you should get one! Stick to manual and 2007-2008 so you can get the updated differential (like the RS4), and the updated ESP.
The car holds its value fairly well, and they're rare.
Throw on a Fast Intentions system, JHM tune and shifter, and you've got yourself a piece of beauty.

[troyguitar]

What is this updated ESP you speak of? Is it not on earlier B7's?

[iHaveBoost?]

^ ESP = Electronic Stability Program. I have it on my B6, so I imagine all B7s have it. He mentioned an updated ESP.


OP: a 'Pros and Cons' list from a group of online strangers is all well and good, but sit in one and drive it. I couldn't see myself in another car after test driving one. Should you feel the same, get one; Should you feel otherwise, get a Camry

[s4buckeye]

^ ESP = Electronic Stability Program. I have it on my B6, so I imagine all B7s have it. He mentioned an updated ESP.


OP: a 'Pros and Cons' list from a group of online strangers is all well and good, but sit in one and drive it. I couldn't see myself in another car after test driving one. Should you feel the same, get one; Should you feel otherwise, get a Camry

iHaveBoost - (off topic), what happened to the band Waltham? Do those guys still live there?

[jlaudio]

Don't be scared or intimidated by what you read about this car and it's engine troubles. Nobody posts when it's running fine, it's when something goes wrong that they post about it.

Keep in mind that the negative reviews/problem threads/catastrophic engine failure reports are a tiny fraction of the number of actual owners of B6/B7 S4s.

My '07 has no issues with 85k miles. Treat it well, and it will do the same for you!

everyone that owns a v8 s4 likes to cite that the engine problems are a "tiny fraction" as if they are trying to justify their ownership of their s4. i hate to burst your bubble, but the timing guides breaking and the gouging of the cylinders is not just a "small fraction". there is even a post on the front page of a guy removing his engine and doing timing work as a preventative maintenance and he found broken guides.
i don't say this out of spite, i say it out of personal experience. if you are used car shopping for a s4, take your sweet ass time and break out the boroscope and factor in timing repairs into the purchase price.

there is a reason why previous owners dump these cars around the 70k+ mile mark. repairs become unreasonably expensive, cars eat oil, timing guides fail, etc. don't be on the wrong end of someone elses problem like the dude that bought my b7 s4....



i would say that if you are looking used and the odo reads 80k+ miles you should factor in timing related components into the purchase price of the car.

[iHaveBoost?]

iHaveBoost - (off topic), what happened to the band Waltham? Do those guys still live there?

So funny you mentioned this, I haven't heard their name in a longggg time. Until recently I heard they're releasing a new CD this year. But this was at a bar downtown so I never looked into it..

[Squatteee]

cons - can't always protect against idiots. got hit by a left turning idiot head on and rear ended in the same accident.

pros - still such a growling sleeper. i have over 150k miles on my 2005 b6 s4 avant and still running strong... original engine but tranny was replaced by insurance because it was shifting strangely after the accident.

[mankytron]

Don't be scared or intimidated by what you read about this car and it's engine troubles. Nobody posts when it's running fine, it's when something goes wrong that they post about it.

Keep in mind that the negative reviews/problem threads/catastrophic engine failure reports are a tiny fraction of the number of actual owners of B6/B7 S4s.

My '07 has no issues with 85k miles. Treat it well, and it will do the same for you!

True, you should not be scared or intimidated, but for the love of god, be an informed consumer. This engine has problems it should not have...period. It is expensive to fix and maintain. Also to say "nobody posts when it is running fine..." true enough, but there are many, many who never post on a forum who do have major problems. It is an awesome car, no doubt, but research all you can before a purchase of this car, there is tons of info here and elsewhere, make your own judgements about it, and feel good about about your purchase and the risk involved.

[Sin_city_Rings]

[QUOTE=jlaudio;8595168] There is a reason why previous owners dump these cars around the 70k+ mile mark. repairs become unreasonably expensive, cars eat oil, timing guides fail, etc. don't be on the wrong end of someone elses problem like the dude that bought my b7 s4..../QUOTE]

+1
I currently have an 05 S4 as a second car And at 94k my car has just developed zero compression in cylinder 3 (bad engine). Not only that the A/C compressor just went out and prior to my purchase the car went through $2500 worth of work. DO YOUR THOROUGH RESEARCH prior to purchasing a used S4!

PROS: ALOT more fun then my B8 and sounds nasty with an aftermarket exhaust.

[b spot]

Pros: Drive it. Sit in it. They are all obvious. Does it snow where you live? You'll wish it snowed more.

Cons: Fuel economy, oil changes. The biggest con for me was cringing every time I started it up and heard the rattle, and in the back of my mind wondering how long until my timing was toast. Lots of people on here downplay it, but the amount of engines blown and $5-$10K services that have been needed are not something acceptable. Had I known, I never would have bought the car in the first place. But man did I enjoy it. Such a great car.

[ProgMetalHead]

Taken from the never inaccurate wiki:
(Talking about B7 compared to B6)
'There are a few mechanical changes, such as revised springs and dampers and, from model year 2007, an updated Torsen T-3 automatically biasing centre differential, featuring a 'default' asymmetric 40:60 front-rear torque split on manual transmission models, along with the later Bosch ESP 8.0 Electronic Stability Programme[3] and gloss black painted brake calipers.[3] The 'Avus-III' roadwheels now became an option, and were replaced by a standard offering 8.0Jx18 inch 'S-design' 7-spoke forged alloy wheel.[3]'

Personally, I prefer the rims on the 07+, but I will be switching to RS4 reps this summer anyway.

[Zamolxes]

Thanks for the advice guys, it really helps a lot. I have yet to drive one but I used to drive a 1997 A4 and I loved it. I can only imagine how this one drives. The only problem is that im not ready to invest 5k$ or more in maintenance. Im looking to buy a 2007-2008 with 60K miles on it. How about the convertible S4s, are they solid?

[ess_four]

everyone that owns a v8 s4 likes to cite that the engine problems are a "tiny fraction" as if they are trying to justify their ownership of their s4. i hate to burst your bubble, but the timing guides breaking and the gouging of the cylinders is not just a "small fraction". there is even a post on the front page of a guy removing his engine and doing timing work as a preventative maintenance and he found broken guides.
i don't say this out of spite, i say it out of personal experience. if you are used car shopping for a s4, take your sweet ass time and break out the boroscope and factor in timing repairs into the purchase price.

there is a reason why previous owners dump these cars around the 70k+ mile mark. repairs become unreasonably expensive, cars eat oil, timing guides fail, etc. don't be on the wrong end of someone elses problem like the dude that bought my b7 s4....



i would say that if you are looking used and the odo reads 80k+ miles you should factor in timing related components into the purchase price of the car.

Your post is bourne purely out of spite and I am sorry to hear you were unlucky. Shite happens. It may happen on your B8. The majority of owners are not counting down the clock. Those who have got rid by a certain mileage have been conservative by airing on the side of caution. The majority of S4's are not ticking time bombs. The majority of posts are either about mods or problems be they engine, transmission, brakes or electrical related. Nobody posts about how good their car performs.

[auxnbus]

How about the convertible S4s, are they solid?

I love mine... I personally love the lines. AWD + V8 + droptop = thing of beauty.

Do understand it is quite a porker, so it isn't as fast or capable as the sedan or avant.... But so worth it.

[jlaudio]

Your post is bourne purely out of spite and I am sorry to hear you were unlucky. Shite happens. It may happen on your B8. The majority of owners are not counting down the clock. Those who have got rid by a certain mileage have been conservative by airing on the side of caution. The majority of S4's are not ticking time bombs. The majority of posts are either about mods or problems be they engine, transmission, brakes or electrical related. Nobody posts about how good their car performs.

i guess we will agree to disagree but just from seeing how many people have snapped tensioners on these boards in the past 6 months is alarming. yes people only post when they have problems but you don't consider how many s4 owners there are that are not on these boards with the same problems.

[ess_four]

i guess we will agree to disagree but just from seeing how many people have snapped tensioners on these boards in the past 6 months is alarming. yes people only post when they have problems but you don't consider how many s4 owners there are that are not on these boards with the same problems.

Even if we just consider the snapshot that is Audizine, the majority of owners have not suffered problems with tensioners, guides etc. I am sure there was a poll on this topic a while back and the the majority ruled. Not saying that the aforementioned problems do not exist just not a prevalent as some make out. Also, other Audi sites that I frequent do not have many incidents that warrant it to be a major concern.

[jlaudio]

Even if we just consider the snapshot that is Audizine, the majority of owners have not suffered problems with tensioners, guides etc. I am sure there was a poll on this topic a while back and the the majority ruled. Not saying that the aforementioned problems do not exist just not a prevalent as some make out. Also, other Audi sites that I frequent do not have many incidents that warrant it to be a major concern.

thats just because most owners are not up to the 80-100k+ mile mark. people on these boards like to indicate that 04 and 05 s4's are more problematic than later years because of revised parts and small bugs worked out. i think its more so the fact that those 04's and 05's have more mileage on them that naturally causes people to think they are problematic.

same assumption happens in the b8 a4/s4 forums. people tell you to stay away from '09's and '10s because the "kinks" were worked out in later years. nah. its more so that the 09's and 10's have more mileage on them, and with mileage, comes neccessary expenses to keep the car running well.

once again i am convinced that the BHF motor is notoriously problematic. Audi offered to pay 50% of the cost of a replacement motor when the car was almost 25k miles out of warranty. car companies don't just offer to replace engines out of warranty unless they acknowledge there is a serious issue with these motors.

[ess_four]

thats just because most owners are not up to the 80-100k+ mile mark. people on these boards like to indicate that 04 and 05 s4's are more problematic than later years because of revised parts and small bugs worked out. i think its more so the fact that those 04's and 05's have more mileage on them that naturally causes people to think they are problematic.

same assumption happens in the b8 a4/s4 forums. people tell you to stay away from '09's and '10s because the "kinks" were worked out in later years. nah. its more so that the 09's and 10's have more mileage on them, and with mileage, comes neccessary expenses to keep the car running well.

once again i am convinced that the BHF motor is notoriously problematic. Audi offered to pay 50% of the cost of a replacement motor when the car was almost 25k miles out of warranty. car companies don't just offer to replace engines out of warranty unless they acknowledge there is a serious issue with these motors.

Considering that the V8 S4 has been around in NA for nearly a decade I would say most are up towards the 80k mark. AoA offer to contribute towards the repairs of your motor is no evidence that that the BHF V8 is a ticking time bomb. Judging by your previous cars I would guess that they wanted to keep a repeat customer happy more than admitting to anything untoward.

[Zamolxes]

This really helps a lot guys reading your posts. There are a lot of postitives and negatives about the S4 but from what I can see the negatives outweigh the positives which makes me mad because I really want to buy an S4 but do not want to buy one and have continuous problems with it. I am no mechanic so I will not be able to fix it myself unlike a lot of the guys on here so I would have to go to a shop to get work done on it. I will keep reading and researching about them and hopefully I come across one that is in really good shape because if I come across one that has any hint of having any problems I will not buy it that is for sure.

[b spot]

I would buy one where someone has already done the timing components without any hesitation.

[ProgMetalHead]

Cons outweigh the pros? No... no they do not.

A B7 S4 is a beautiful looking car with AWD, recaro seats, and a V8. It's one of the safest vehicles around, and good for all seasons. Potential to turn it into a pretty raw beast, if desired.

Worst case scenario, your engine blows, and you're out 3-4 grand. Okay, that sucks... but get it fixed, and you've got yourself a brilliant machine again. I'd pay for a new engine if it meant I got to keep driving one of the best cars around (IMO).

[mankytron]

Cons outweigh the pros? No... no they do not.

A B7 S4 is a beautiful looking car with AWD, recaro seats, and a V8. It's one of the safest vehicles around, and good for all seasons. Potential to turn it into a pretty raw beast, if desired.

Worst case scenario, your engine blows, and you're out 3-4 grand. Okay, that sucks... but get it fixed, and you've got yourself a brilliant machine again. I'd pay for a new engine if it meant I got to keep driving one of the best cars around (IMO).

I agree the pros outweigh the cons...at least for most of us. There is really nothing like the s4...except maybe an rs4, but thats a different fairytale. However if your engine does blow, and it is not repairable the costs to repower an s4 would be much higher. I just did a quick search of used s4 engines at car-part (auto wreckers across NA), and acutally found quite a few, however I would say the average cost of these engines is at least 4500, plus shipping. Lets say 5000. Then in my opinon before the motor goes in the valve seals should be done, bore scoring and timing system checked, and probably at the minimum the common guide that breaks and the tensioners changed (JHM minimum kit) So there is an other 1000 in parts plus the labour, and that does not count labour to pull the old motor and install the new one, say thats another 2000 for total labour. That totals a conservative 8000 grand. But then you should have faith in your motor and could enoy it for many years.

I imagine a fully dressed crate engine from Audi (if they were still available) would near 20000. Hell, a long block from GAP is near 12000, and I think that is a factory reman.

[ProgMetalHead]

Yeah... definitely a lot of money, and I definitely undershot the price.
Good news is that this is worst case scenario we're talking... it's rare(ish) for this to happen.

I still think it's worth it, though.

[troyguitar]

I find it harder to justify for the sedan, but the Avant has no real competition in the US market. I would sooner put another $20k into mine than buy a different car.

[ProgMetalHead]

I'll never understand all the Avant love around here... I can't be alone?!

[troyguitar]

Here's the reasoning: B7 S4 Avant is the absolute best AWD MT wagon you can buy in this country at any price, period.

That statement does not hold true for the sedan, you could buy an RS4 or a few other competitive products.

[mholme]

Here's the reasoning: B7 S4 Avant is the absolute best AWD MT wagon you can buy in this country at any price, period.

Said the guy on an Audi enthusiast site...with a B7 S4 Avant

But hop on any Volvo, Subaru, etc site. They'll be singing the same praises about their choice.

[troyguitar]

V70R might be a legit competitor, I tend to forget that those were briefly available in AWD+MT. But Legacy GT competition for the S4? Nah.

[auxnbus]

Here's the reasoning: B7 S4 Avant is the absolute best AWD MT wagon you can buy in this country at any price, period.

That statement does not hold true for the sedan, you could buy an RS4 or a few other competitive products.

Same can be said for the Cab, though... but more like... ONLY V8 AWD MT convertible under $150,000.

[LOUDERPLEASE]

I'll never understand all the Avant love around here... I can't be alone?!

Agreed.

"For The Lord planted WOMEN upon this planet so that MAN would not have to fetch groceries"

[troyguitar]

You can go out and buy a Holden V8 wagon for, what, half the price of the Audi? I might not get it either if I had that option.

[mholme]

V70R might be a legit competitor, I tend to forget that those were briefly available in AWD+MT. But Legacy GT competition for the S4? Nah.

It's not really a matter of direct competition, as I see it. It all comes down to a personal choice in the end, based on driving the car in question and research...hopefully. Every mark that has thrown their hat in the ring over the years for a certain market is going to make concessions in some areas. Audi comes on top in most things important to me. Performance, handling fit and finish, styling. But then again, I can fix things myslef, I can pull an engine if need be, I don't care about gas mileage. The average person looking for a family oriented vehicle(Avant in the case of an S4) is most likely highly concerned about these things, unaware in some cases. The average person...

I've driven a V70R and owned Volvo's and SAAB's over the years. They are..quircky in the interior, to say the least. But they can be made to haul ass for far less than anything German I've ever owned, if that's your goal, with far more cargo space and better gas mileage.

I'll give you the Subaru though. Although I've noticed a lot of people on this forum have both in their stable.

[mankytron]

I would say the v70r is a competitor (performance wise a least) having come from an s60r (sedan) before buying an s4. The Volvo looks good, has 4 pot brembo brakes, adjustable suspension, nice interior, great stereo, has a hell strong engine which is very reliable, and with simple chip tuning is capable of 350 plus hp and gets way better mileage. Things on the down side, the front wheel drive based haldex awd, and despite all of its high tech/high performance goodies, does not have the connected "feel" to the road/machine like the s4....but is still a great luxury/fast/awd platform. Also in the last years of Saab they had the 9-3 turbo x, an awd 300plus hp turbo v6 manual trans also available in a wagon (sportcombi)