Crankcase Breather Valve Woes

[czm]

Hi all

To day I replaced the CC breather valve on my 2004 1.8t Avant with 70k miles.

Below you will see my concerns, there was a lot of white/yellowish mayo in the pipe and in the valve.

My main concern is the sludge issue with these BEX engines however there was no real sludge just this horrid mayo gunk. Of course cleaned the pipe and fitted the new valve and the car runs well now.

However I was wondering what precautions/actions I should be doing to keep everything clean and breathing well? Shall I replace the rest of the breather pipes ect and if so what bits do I need ect?

Anything I can use to flush it while all in place?

[travrach]

Do you take a lot of short trips? Never really getting the car hot..up to operating temps for extended periods?

[czm]

Yeah its mostly short school runs and nips to town really

[travrach]

That's generally what causes that. It will be good to remove the others tubes and clean them also. If you can try to take it on a trip from time to time, it helps get the crankcase hot and burn that junk out.

[SleeperAvant]

Possibly consider adding a catch can to your crankcase breather setup to help keep the system free of much of the gunk.

[texasboy21]

nips to town really

Golden, cant make this up.

Possibly consider adding a catch can to your crankcase breather setup to help keep the system free of much of the gunk.

I second this, I added a catch can into my crack case breather system and instantly noticed a decrease in 'goo'.

[Charles.waite]

I was having goo buildups before I replaced my whole PCV system. All relatively short trips too. 100% city driving, etc. with my 034 silicon breather setup and a new OEM prv and new check valves is haven't seen the problem resurface in almost a year.

[AutoUnionLov3r]

I was having goo buildups before I replaced my whole PCV system. All relatively short trips too. 100% city driving, etc. with my 034 silicon breather setup and a new OEM prv and new check valves is haven't seen the problem resurface in almost a year.

That's good to hear Charles. I've been wanting to replace all that crap since I ripped it out and I'm actually unhappy with the pedal feel.

[diagnosticator]

Yeah, hit the motorway and drive it like you stole it a couple of times a week. The deposits are from the water vapor in the crankcase gasses, condensing in the crankcase ventilation plumbing, and with mostly short trips, the engine oil and vent system does not heat up enough to boil the water away completely. Also, change the oil more frequently than the Audi OCI requires. I recommend every 5,000 miles, with a filter replacement every 10,000 miles.

[diagnosticator]

That's good to hear Charles. I've been wanting to replace all that crap since I ripped it out and I'm actually unhappy with the pedal feel.

Ripping all that "crap" out is not recommended by the knowledgeable few here, who know why the crankcase ventilation system is designed the way it is from the factory. The OE setup is not an arbitrary layout. It is configured specifically for the turbocharged engine requirements, that change a lot depending on if boost pressure is present or not.

There is an effective add-on to the crankcase ventilation system plumbing that I can recommend. The MANN Pro Vent crankcase vapor trap canister/oily aerosol coalescer. The MANN Pro Vent, will serve to keep the intake system clean, free from condensed oily aerosols and water vapor residues.

[AutoUnionLov3r]

[QUOTE=diagnosticator;8567659]Ripping all that "crap" out is not recommended by the knowledgeable few here, who know why the crankcase ventilation system is designed the way it is from the factory. The OE setup is not an arbitrary layout. It is configured specifically for the turbocharged engine requirements, that change a lot depending on if boost pressure is present or not.

There is an effective add-on to the crankcase ventilation system plumbing that I can recommend. The MANN Pro Vent crankcase vapor trap canister/oily aerosol coalescer. The MANN Pro Vent, will serve to keep the intake system clean, free from condensed oily aerosols and water vapor residues.


So the Provent is basically a catch can..

[incubusfc]

I removed my emissions. I kinda regret it. My car stinks now. Sometimes pretty damn bad too.

[newhandle]

^ I deleted the entire PCV system and the cars stinks to passengers, though I can't even smell it anymore. Try routing your hose dumps to somewhere under the car so there's less of a chance of get sucked up in the air vents.

[czm]

Ripping all that "crap" out is not recommended by the knowledgeable few here, who know why the crankcase ventilation system is designed the way it is from the factory. The OE setup is not an arbitrary layout. It is configured specifically for the turbocharged engine requirements, that change a lot depending on if boost pressure is present or not.

There is an effective add-on to the crankcase ventilation system plumbing that I can recommend. The MANN Pro Vent crankcase vapor trap canister/oily aerosol coalescer. The MANN Pro Vent, will serve to keep the intake system clean, free from condensed oily aerosols and water vapor residues.

OP here and thanks for the feedback on the goo build up.
Any DIYs on how to fit this to the breather loop?
I am going to swap out the current pipe work for the 034 silicon kit, what about the check valves? Should I rpelace them also? Are they all the same (I count 5 of them???)

[texasboy21]

^Plenty of catch can DIYs.

[screwball]

I dug around for replacement filters on the provent and they were nearly $50.

[diagnosticator]

[QUOTE=AutoUnionLov3r;8567723]

Ripping all that "crap" out is not recommended by the knowledgeable few here, who know why the crankcase ventilation system is designed the way it is from the factory. The OE setup is not an arbitrary layout. It is configured specifically for the turbocharged engine requirements, that change a lot depending on if boost pressure is present or not.

There is an effective add-on to the crankcase ventilation system plumbing that I can recommend. The MANN Pro Vent crankcase vapor trap canister/oily aerosol coalescer. The MANN Pro Vent, will serve to keep the intake system clean, free from condensed oily aerosols and water vapor residues.


So the Provent is basically a catch can..

At first glance it would seem that is true, but a ProVent is a lot more sophisticated compared to a simple catch can. It can not be said that a simple catch can is basically a ProVent unit from the functional point of view.

[diagnosticator]

OP here and thanks for the feedback on the goo build up.
Any DIYs on how to fit this to the breather loop?
I am going to swap out the current pipe work for the 034 silicon kit, what about the check valves? Should I rpelace them also? Are they all the same (I count 5 of them???)

The ProVent unit is placed in the vent line between the Crankcase pressure regulator valve, and the connection to the intake before the turbo, after the MAF meter. This connection entrance to the intake already exists, where the vent line is connected to the intake system in the stock OE arrangement. Although slightly different layout, a similar install DIY describing a ProVent application for a TDI 1.9l Jetta may be helpful. See:http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=846480

[diagnosticator]

I dug around for replacement filters on the provent and they were nearly $50.

The "filter" inside a ProVent, mainly serves to cause the oil aerosols to collect into larger liquid droplets so that the oily mist in the crankcase vapors can be removed and collected in the base of the ProVent unit. The collected oil can then either be drained occasionally manually, or the drain from the ProVent can be plumbed to return the collected oil back to the crankcase. The filter is not usually changed, it does not clog up like a typical filter. The separation of the oily aerosols in the crankcase vapors depends on the screening effect of the filter, but the actual function of the ProVent filter screen is different, it does not catch and retain anything, it only causes the oily aerosols to form into larger droplets for removal and collection of the oil aerosols, so that the crankcase vapors leaving the ProVent are clean and oil free.

[Charles.waite]

OP here and thanks for the feedback on the goo build up.
Any DIYs on how to fit this to the breather loop?
I am going to swap out the current pipe work for the 034 silicon kit, what about the check valves? Should I rpelace them also? Are they all the same (I count 5 of them???)

Here you go: http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=32234

I'm running these and they've held up beautifully over the past year. They're a little bit shorter than the OEM ones (maybe 1/8" or less), but the only place that's been an issue is the one by the n80, the holder for the n80 doesn't fully seat on the tab coming off the Intake snorkel. Not a huge deal though.

I'm not sure how many I used, I just got 8 or 10 and used whatever I needed. They're so cheap it was no big deal to order extra. There is also one or two 3/8" check valves so you might want to pick up a few of these as well: http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=36844

[AutoUnionLov3r]

[QUOTE=diagnosticator;8569443]

At first glance it would seem that is true, but a ProVent is a lot more sophisticated compared to a simple catch can. It can not be said that a simple catch can is basically a ProVent unit from the functional point of view.

Thanks for that info! I've been running EGR/PCV-less for about a month now and regret it.

Stock set up owns period.

[Charles.waite]

Thought I'd share this as well: http://www.republicsales.com/documen...oVent%20en.pdf

Lots of really good info in there.

Diagnosticator: Would this solution do away with both the PCV and PRV? It would appear so to me but I might be reading it wrong. My thoughts on mounting one would be to run a line from the Crankcase vent port on the rear of the VC, fit the ProVent (200 I think would be perfect for a modified car though 150 could suffice as well) and then run the outlet line to the factory Turbo Inlet breather port. Then you might have to construct a custom line to vent the oil drain to the oil cooler PCV port (this is the detail that is most difficult to figure out).

Do the inlet/outlet ports on the provent swivel? as that would really make it integrate easily into the factory locations.

[diagnosticator]

OP here and thanks for the feedback on the goo build up.
Any DIYs on how to fit this to the breather loop?
I am going to swap out the current pipe work for the 034 silicon kit, what about the check valves? Should I rpelace them also? Are they all the same (I count 5 of them???)

All of the check valves are the same functionally, but one or two are physically different, using application specific hose connections. It is a good idea to replace the original checks at the same time you do the 034 setup, the original checks often fail with the higher mileage and time from new. If the checks are working right now, they will likely fail soon after installing the 034 kit, but it's hard to predict accurately.

BTW, the ProVent has a crankcase pressure regulator included, the original crankcase pressure regulator valve, AKA the "Pancake" valve, eventually becomes less effective as the diaphragm inside the valve hardens with age. Therefore, eliminating the OE CPRV, and using the ProVent CPRV, is preferred to replacing the OE CPRV.

[diagnosticator]

Thought I'd share this as well: http://www.republicsales.com/documen...oVent%20en.pdf

Lots of really good info in there.

Diagnosticator: Would this solution do away with both the PCV and PRV? It would appear so to me but I might be reading it wrong. My thoughts on mounting one would be to run a line from the Crankcase vent port on the rear of the VC, fit the ProVent (200 I think would be perfect for a modified car though 150 could suffice as well) and then run the outlet line to the factory Turbo Inlet breather port. Then you might have to construct a custom line to vent the oil drain to the oil cooler PCV port (this is the detail that is most difficult to figure out).

Do the inlet/outlet ports on the provent swivel? as that would really make it integrate easily into the factory locations.

The ProVent includes a CPRV, but not a PCV. AFAIK, the ports do not swivel. The ProVent oil drain line cannot be connected to the PCV. Connection to the PCV would cause a malfunction of the PCV, and apply vacuum to the ProVent unit. The oil drain must be connected to the crankcase somewhere separate from the PCV system, above the oil level, or capped and drained manually every oil change, or more often depending on how much blow-by the engine is producing depending on the condition of the piston rings and valve guide seals.

[diagnosticator]

[QUOTE=AutoUnionLov3r;8569690]

Thanks for that info! I've been running EGR/PCV-less for about a month now and regret it.

Stock set up owns period.

Just to clarify, the SAI and Combi valve on the back of the cylinder head, does not effect engine operation because it injects air into the exhaust ports after the combustion event in the cylinders. The only effect the SAI has is to increase oxidation in the CAT converter for fast cat warm up after colds starts. There is nothing to be gained by removing he SAI pump and Combi Valve. The EGR function is provided internally, and is a function of the VVT controlled intake valve timing overlap with the exhaust valve timing. There is no external EGR valve. All EGR is internal and controlled by the ECU's VVT functions.

The crankcase ventilation function of the PCV and CPRV, are important, are designed to maintain a slightly negative pressure in the crankcase. (~ -3 to ~ -5 inch H2O water column) If the PCV function is defeated by removing the PCV, will result in the crankcase pressure increasing to ambient and higher pressure levels constantly, and will provoke oil leaks from the various possible leak locations at the oil pan/block joint and valve cover gasket, and from the crankshaft and camshaft oil seals.

[h82loze]

All of the check valves are the same functionally, but one or two are physically different, using application specific hose connections. It is a good idea to replace the original checks at the same time you do the 034 setup, the original checks often fail with the higher mileage and time from new. If the checks are working right now, they will likely fail soon after installing the 034 kit, but it's hard to predict accurately.

BTW, the ProVent has a crankcase pressure regulator included, the original crankcase pressure regulator valve, AKA the "Pancake" valve, eventually becomes less effective as the diaphragm inside the valve hardens with age. Therefore, eliminating the OE CPRV, and using the ProVent CPRV, is preferred to replacing the OE CPRV.

So I just want to clarify, you would recommend replacing the PRV (pictured below) with the ProVent 200? Installing the ProVent 200 and keeping the OEM PRV would be redundant and unnecessary, correct? I ask because I'm all about preventative maintenance modifications and was considering a catch can. But this seems like it is a catch can plus PRV, so it would be better than getting a catch can and the updated 25mm PRV?