Car will not go into gear while running unless already moving. more inside..

[tttomdemaria]

just picked this s4 about a month ago. everything has seemed fine. no creaks, leaks, or squeaks at all. driving tonight i shifted from first to second and i wasn't able to go into second. at first because of my stress and naivety i thought the clutch was broken. then i realized if it still moves then it obviously isnt in pieces especially since there is literally no smell at all even when it happened and there is no noise at all. So basically this is whats up. i can start it fine in neutral but i cant shift into gear once its started. i can also start it in first gear and get my car moving with no noises or smells at all. i can shift clutchless while driving and it also shifts with the engine off and the car in a stationary position. i looked near the slave cylinder and there is no fluid. i was not able to get my hand in there to feel the boot though because the pipes were still hot. my pedal feels a tad weak but still comes back because i heard that on the newer cars they are spring loaded(not too sure about that though). the line going from the pedal to the slave cylinder is dry and does not look streched out or expanded. ive come to two possible causes which is either a bad slave cylinder or the clutch fused to the flywheel. suggestions and/or comments?

edit: honesty. i just got the car and im 21 so i launched it like an *insert expletive*. then it wouldnt shift into second. i know im an idiot.

[Imola34]

First thing I'd suggest is bleed the clutch. Does the pedal feel any different? Does it engage differently since you have experienced these symptoms? It may not be the issue but you want to eliminate all of the easy fixes first. I've seen a couple B6s come into my shop needing a new tranny. Customers were experiencing similar issues. Not trying to provoke worry.

[Perry Bullard]

Any manual car can shift with the engine off unless there was something lodged in the gears.
Do not ever shift in to gears without pushing in the clutch while the motor is running.
My guess would be the synchros.
Is the master cylinder full?
Also check tranny fluid.

[TheNextEpisode]

Your issue is likely the result of a warped pressure plate, broken pressure plate return springs (those central tangs in the pressure plate), or a slave or master clutch cylinder that is about to go out.

The inability to shift into gear once the engine is running is a sign that the synchros cannot bring the input and output shafts (vaguely speaking, at least) of the transmission to a common speed and allow the next gear to be selected. If the car is at a stop, the output shaft of the transmission is stopped. With a depressed clutch and a properly functioning pressure plate and slave cylinder, the clutch disc is disengaged and the input shaft of the transmission will come to a stop, either due to friction or due to the 1st gear synchro if 1st gear is selected. However, if any of the problems I listed above are occurring, the input shaft of the transmission WON'T come to a stop, no matter what the 1st gear synchro tries to make the input shaft do. The pressure plate/flywheel sandwich will simply drag on the clutch disc, never allowing it or the input shaft of the transmission to come to a stop. The same problem will lock you out of your other gears as well; the constant speed differential between the input shaft (spun by the dragging clutch) and the output shaft (spun by the moving or stopped car, either way PROBABLY different than the input shaft) will cause you to never be able to select a gear easily if at all.

When, however, you clutchless shift by manual matching RPMs, the fact that the clutch is dragging becomes irrelevant since you are manually synchronizing the input and output transmission shaft speeds. As a result, the transmission will shift between gears as if nothing is wrong.

Clutchless shifting is not a great idea, but there's no such law that says NEVER DO IT. If you're good at it, theoretically there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Also, your synchros may be just fine, but the longer you continue to [imperfectly] clutchless shift, the more likely it is that you will do irreversible damage to the synchros as well as the leading edges of the transmission gear teeth. Don't panic; the fix is likely just a slave or master cylinder and/or a new pressure plate away.

[Lefthook]

Any manual car can shift with the engine off unless there was something lodged in the gears.
Do not ever shift in to gears without pushing in the clutch while the motor is running.
My guess would be the synchros.
Is the master cylinder full?
Also check tranny fluid.

lol so much wrong with this post.

Agree with TheNextEpisode completely. This is either a MC, slave, or pressure plate issue, or a combination of the 3.

[JimmyBones]

Is it just second gear that you have an issue shifting into? Can you start in first and then shift to third? How about from third on?

Try flooring the gas around 35 mph in sixth gear. Do the rpms jump up noticeably faster than vehicle speed?

[tttomdemaria]

The car literally drives as though nothing is wrong when im moving. Well the clutch still doesnt work but the gears shift in whatever sequence i want. All gears are out at a stop though and i can start it in reverse to back it up and stuff.

Also

>>mfw Tranny fluid

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[BCsniper]

edit: honesty. i just got the car and im 21 so i launched it like an *insert expletive*. then it wouldnt shift into second. i know im an idiot.

I applaud your honesty. Many folks here would have never admitted it. And now you know not to do that again (I learned the same thing not to launch at a very high rpm with this car)

[mankytron]

The car literally drives as though nothing is wrong when im moving. Well the clutch still doesnt work but the gears shift in whatever sequence i want. All gears are out at a stop though and i can start it in reverse to back it up and stuff.

Also

>>mfw Tranny fluid


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Your clutch is not disengaging fully and therefore dragging, check for leaks first at the slave, line and master and bleed it. If that does not help, start looking internally at the clutch as TheNextEpisode has said. Your tranny is fine.

[Perry Bullard]

lol so much wrong with this post.

Agree with TheNextEpisode completely. This is either a MC, slave, or pressure plate issue, or a combination of the 3.

Yeah sorry guys I was pretty fucked up yesterday and I wasn't fully reading his post. That's what I get, making myself look like an idiot. Lol
I agree with what everyone else has been saying.

[ak-s4]

I'll bet money because of the hard launch, clutch material has come loose from the clutch disc, most likely since it is old and worn already (and/or got cooked prior). This loose material rides up a little over the top of the material still on the disc, causing the clutch disc to become quite a bit thicker. This means you can't quite disengage the clutch all the way.

My clutch failure happened like this to a T. Me and a friend with a lift did the work together last fall. I have photos of the OEM disc with the material basically falling off in big chunks. Otherwise, no other component was faulty. Of course I installed all new stuff while I was in there.

[Apat]

How many miles on the car? Original clutch?

[tttomdemaria]

Yea the slave still works. Its something with the clutch definitely.

Anyway.

We took everything apart and im going back to my garage after work and dropping it down. Ill keep everything posted. Im also building a diy thread with pictures so it will help anyone else who embarks on this adventure in the future.

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[TheNextEpisode]

My clutch failure happened like this to a T. Me and a friend with a lift did the work together last fall. I have photos of the OEM disc with the material basically falling off in big chunks. Otherwise, no other component was faulty. Of course I installed all new stuff while I was in there.

Holy crap that's intense!

[ak-s4]

Can't post pics, see if this works:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...mag0136ta.jpg/

[tttomdemaria]

Got everything down the other night. The clutch ended up fusing to the flywheel. I had to pry it with a screwdriver to separate the pieces. Also have to buy a new friction plate for the flywheel because it cant be resurfaced. On top of the new clutch. No moar fast. Ever.

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[tttomdemaria]

Oh and what the ef with the plastic throwout bearing?

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[cheetah993]

Time to do a JHM flywheel and clutch. May as well if you have to replace everything.

[JimmyBones]

Oh and what the ef with the plastic throwout bearing?

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That is the way that they do it. It works.

Time to do a JHM flywheel and clutch. May as well if you have to replace everything.

If he gets the stage four and breaks it in correctly than he can moar fast all he wants.

[cheetah993]

Exactly, I am ordering stage 4 with all my timing components and the shifter trio package from them tomorrow with my tax return. Maybe lightweight rotors front and back as well, but I would rather do exhaust.

[tttomdemaria]

Already had a jhm flywheel. Luk clutch is goin in from jhm

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[cheetah993]

Did you not like the JHM clutch or is there another reason that you decided to go with luk?

[tttomdemaria]

Luk is actually what was already in there. Figured id go with the stuff that was already in there. Im new as fuck to s4's so i wasnt 100% on what was best for the driving around here so thats why i just replaced whatever was in there with the same parts.

I dont always drive like a moron...

But when i do catastrophic failures occur.

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[cheetah993]

Just curious but luk is a good brand so you didn't choose unwisely, I was under the impression that you already had the JHM setup and you were just replacing the clutch disc.

[tttomdemaria]

I replaced the clutch and press. Plate and throwout bearing with the luk parts from the kit and i replaced the friction plate on the jhm flywheel. Its all going back together tonight.

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[Imola34]

Even with the JHM clutch/flywheel I'd say limit the 4k+ launches. There are plenty of other parts that can only take limited abuse. Axles are a good example

[tttomdemaria]

Oh yeah forgot to mention drivers side axle got all messed up. Changing that as well.

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[tttomdemaria]

Finished the job the other night. Replaced everything. Took me about 24 hours total with no experience on this type of transmission. Car is running perfectly. Diy is too long to do in 20 minutes haha will be posting some time soon though.

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[TarlCabot]

Finished the job the other night. Replaced everything. Took me about 24 hours total with no experience on this type of transmission. Car is running perfectly. Diy is too long to do in 20 minutes haha will be posting some time soon though.

Sent from my controller using a snes. Mario edition.

Not bad, clutch job alone is 16 hrs with some exp... you got it done congrats and safe keeping