BEL vs APB

[britishturbo]

Did you analys the RS4 engine?

What would you like to know?

[rdcyclist]

What would you like to know?

In your opinion, what broke? It looked like another main cap failure to me, but I'm not on the ground there...

[britishturbo]

In your opinion, what broke? It looked like another main cap failure to me, but I'm not on the ground there...

On what?

[rdcyclist]

On what?

So maybe my memory is faulty and I don't have time to go back into your build thread (BTW, the best build thread ever; you are my hero. Anybody that can blow up three motors in pursuit of reliable big horsepower is The Man) but I seem to recall your last engine explosion was an RS4 block. You were getting somewhere around 720awhp at the time. This has got you on the mother of all main bearing girdle assemblies. Or am I losing my mind?

[brogan]

What would you like to know?

If its stronger than early APB, or AGB as its called here in europe? I forgot to measure the caps on my ASJ block before I assembled it:/

[Meow]

Any one compare 2.8 Block with BEL and APB ?

Yeah! +1 I am ignorant when it comes to knowing the 2.8.

FYI the 2.8 a4 blocks are 2 bolt mains. Nuff said, they are basically useless for power.

[brogan]

This happend to my AGB block. The setup was : RS4 heads, pistons, crank, rods, K04´s, ported intake, ev14 750cc, 28psi dropped to 25 on E85.. 100-200km/h 7.3s

[UkuRiSh]

This happend to my AGB block. The setup was : RS4 heads, pistons, crank, rods, K04´s, ported intake, ev14 750cc, 28psi dropped to 25 on E85.. 100-200km/h 7.3s

Did you ever dyned? Do you have log with acceleration? E85 is the killer of our engine to much tq at early spike. I'm going to stay with 93 Oct this time .

[brogan]

Did you ever dyned? Do you have log with acceleration? E85 is the killer of our engine to much tq at early spike. I'm going to stay with 93 Oct this time .

No i dont.. but i will when i get it back together. Running H-beam rods and ASJ block will hopefully do it?!

[brogan]

I spoke to LOBA about the RS4 blocks and the run the "HULK", a 3.0 LO750 car with around 1000NM without a girdle so I should be fine!

[Lupe-81]

brogan: just for interest as you live in Sweden, who is your tuner?

[brogan]

brogan: just for interest as you live in Sweden, who is your tuner?

Stertman motorsport :)

[Reich]

Brogan.
Do you have an idea on which block side there was the worst block damage? Like where the main web got completely sheard off?

[brogan]

Brogan.
Do you have an idea on which block side there was the worst block damage? Like where the main web got completely sheard off?

Drivers side!

[Reich]

Drivers side!

Thanks

[britishturbo]

I spoke to LOBA about the RS4 blocks and the run the "HULK", a 3.0 LO750 car with around 1000NM without a girdle so I should be fine!

I also made that 950NM at the wheels (their number is at the crank) on my 2.7... but I wouldn't recommend it :-)
Anyone who runs a 3.0 without a Girdle or Bedplate is going to have a bad day eventually even with the RS4 block if they push the power high enough.

[brogan]

I also made that 950NM at the wheels (their number is at the crank) on my 2.7... but I wouldn't recommend it :-)
Anyone who runs a 3.0 without a Girdle or Bedplate is going to have a bad day eventually even with the RS4 block if they push the power high enough.

Yea, Dahlback racing here in swe runs his VW polo with the RS4 block aswell. Think he dyned 1200whp and 1000 wnm without a girdle.

[FlyboyS4]

E85 is the killer of our engine to much tq at early spike.

Somebody made the decision to push timing advance, in conjunction with 28 psi of boost, to the point cylinder pressures caused that failure. E85 alone doesn't kill motors.

[landfill]

Is the rs4 block stronger than a BEL?

[landfill]

Also britishturbo are you ever going to make your bedplate
available to other AZ folks lol.

[brogan]

Somebody made the decision to push timing advance, in conjunction with 28 psi of boost, to the point cylinder pressures caused that failure. E85 alone doesn't kill motors.

My tuner (stertman) said he backed the timing as i ran with oem rs4 rods. But instead the block failed. Running the ASJ block and h-beam rods should make it possible to run more timing i think?

[britishturbo]

Yea, Dahlback racing here in swe runs his VW polo with the RS4 block aswell. Think he dyned 1200whp and 1000 wnm without a girdle.

O_o where can I read more about this? I've never heard of this car nor such high dyno numbers...

[britishturbo]

The Dahlback racing car was 980HP and 1200NM accoring to google. That's engine numbers though not wheel.

[brogan]

Ok i might be wrong but its lots of power anyways:) he runs it on track and pushes it to the limit and the car seem to be fine!


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[Meow]

My tuner (stertman) said he backed the timing as i ran with oem rs4 rods. But instead the block failed. Running the ASJ block and h-beam rods should make it possible to run more timing i think?

Holy crap, first ive heard of that, interesting to see a block crack before rods do! Though one might have caused the other, hard to say in catastrophic conditions such as bottom end failure.

[Mocke]

The Dahlback racing car was 980HP and 1200NM accoring to google. That's engine numbers though not wheel.

Dalbäck Racing dyno is a joke too, I know that from my own cars. I hade to do with this joker last 6 years with my S and RS cars.
My old tune was done on their Dynapack (Joypack) I made 450awhp/626awnm. The car was fast back than too, due to a moderat boost and very much timing, But was living vary dangerously becouse of not enough fueling.
I allways thought those numbers was incorrect, and I took my car to Mustang dyno, that showed 413awhp/578awnm.

If i would assume Dahlbäck Polo 980/1200 is not more than real 700awhp/900awnm. I Think i am generous with these numbers too.

[brogan]

Well ok. I was more interested in the numbers the block could hold and not ur aggresion towards dbr since ive heard that story before. By them numbers u wrote chp would be 850- 875 and cnm 1200-1250.


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[Mocke]

Well ok. I was more interested in the numbers the block could hold and not ur aggresion towards dbr since ive heard that story before. By them numbers u wrote chp would be 850- 875 and cnm 1200-1250.


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I was beeing generous with numbers :)

[FlyboyS4]

My tuner (stertman) said he backed the timing as i ran with oem rs4 rods. But instead the block failed. Running the ASJ block and h-beam rods should make it possible to run more timing i think?

Hmm, so did they think there was a structural flaw in the engine block? My comment was intended to point out that the E85 fuel wasn't what caused the failure, saying it was timing was a poor conclusion on my part.

[rtl5009]

This thread make a vr6 look better and better

[Reich]

I don't know why working or searching so hard to prevent those blocks from cracking. Griddle plate and end of that story. Common guy what's so scaring about a griddle plate. It's the cheapest solution of all and been proved to work.

[FlyboyS4]

Griddle plate and end of that story. Common guy what's so scaring about a griddle plate. It's the cheapest solution of all and been proved to work.

yumm, griddle ...

[Lupe-81]

Has anyone cracked or seen cracked BF block yet?? No?? Tens of cracked early style blocks have been seen though.

[Reich]

I think Jason adict cracked one. Not sure.

[Reich]

yumm, griddle ...

griddle plate....;-)

[Meow]

I think Jason adict cracked one. Not sure.

One that jason had that cracked... Not all of them seem to crack in the cylinder like this, though lees and jasons both did.

[Meow]

been proved to work.

[brogan]

One that jason had that cracked... Not all of them seem to crack in the cylinder like this, though lees and jasons both did.

Ouch, how much power did he make?

[Lupe-81]

So lee (britishturbo?) and jason have cracked BF blocks? When did britishturbo cracked BF block?? Did his main web cracked also? What was the power level and setup with the jason's case?

[Meow]

So lee (britishturbo?) and jason have cracked BF blocks? When did britishturbo cracked BF block?? Did his main web cracked also? What was the power level and setup with the jason's case?

no, jason had a bf block break but lees was an early block, not a bf one. Jasons was at 630/675