s4 Oil Consumption

[audis4ever]

Hey guys...So i have a questions for you fellow audi nuts.... I am on my 6th audi (4th S car...3 S4's & 1 S6), # 32 of all the audis my family has had since 1987.... anyway of all the Audi's i/we have had none of them have really consumed oil like my current car. The car is an 05 B6 S4 6mt with 63K on it. Depending on my driving which is about 80-90% highway i am burning 1 Qt every 900-1500 miles, however over the past few months it has been burning more without any change in driving style and getting to the 800-900 point and is starting to concern me....

My shop has made a few suggestions and that was to change weight and brand of oil and see with it does....another suggestion has been to add an additive. I currently run 5w-30 Mobil 1 Synthetic and change the oil every 3-5k Miles. Im sure this has been discussed numerous times here but i am looking for all the input i can get.

Thanks Guys!

[moyenecorniche]

That is an issue ... Mine burns also but My tech said don't worry about it just keep on top of it.
I will adress this next winter if I decide to pull the motor ( Exhaust / Headers ) if it is time.

[KRp220]

Hey guys...So i have a questions for you fellow audi nuts.... I am on my 6th audi (4th S car...3 S4's & 1 S6), # 32 of all the audis my family has had since 1987.... anyway of all the Audi's i/we have had none of them have really consumed oil like my current car. The car is an 05 B6 S4 6mt with 63K on it. Depending on my driving which is about 80-90% highway i am burning 1 Qt every 900-1500 miles, however over the past few months it has been burning more without any change in driving style and getting to the 800-900 point and is starting to concern me....

My shop has made a few suggestions and that was to change weight and brand of oil and see with it does....another suggestion has been to add an additive. I currently run 5w-30 Mobil 1 Synthetic and change the oil every 3-5k Miles. Im sure this has been discussed numerous times here but i am looking for all the input i can get.

Thanks Guys!

just to forewarn you, you're gonna get ragged on for not searching the forum for the many other threads like this, and for the wrong oil. manufacturer suggests 5w40, and there are a few other '40' variants you can use.

search around, read up, see if you have more specific questions. mine burns oil too so dont feel bad ;) just had my crankcase vent valve replaced to see if that helps

[audis4ever]

I know that this engine was "Designed to burn oil" and audi states that it is within spec to be consuming up to 1Qt every 700+ miles. I think it was 600 Miles and less that they were replacing these engines from the factory. I meant to write 5w-40 for the weight but i think i am going to switch to 0W-40 on this next oil change. Anybody adding anything to the oil or tried the switch weight & brand method?

[Black3.2]

just to forewarn you, you're gonna get ragged on for not searching the forum for the many other threads like this, and for the wrong oil. manufacturer suggests 5w40, and there are a few other '40' variants you can use.

search around, read up, see if you have more specific questions. mine burns oil too so dont feel bad ;) just had my crankcase vent valve replaced to see if that helps

Manufacturer suggest VW 502.00/505.00 approved oils - not just 5w-40, you should "search around, read up" as you suggested to someone else. Not trying to be an ass, just trying to educate

[audi49]

I would think that 0W-40 would only increase consumption, but just slightly since it changes only the cold viscosity of the oil.
I don't have any experience with changing oil weight on my S4, but on my B5 A4 I very early on switched to Castrol 5W-50 to avoid topping off (was burning some oil but well within Audi spec, much less than a quart every thousand miles). Oil consumption was significantly lower with 5W-50 than it was with 5W-40...to the point where i didn't have to top off between oil changes (5000 miles). I know that 5W-50 doesn't meet Audi spec and i know that many will say that that is too heavy an oil, but I've used it in my A4 for 10 years+ without any issues.

[Dirtracer603]

It also seems the seasons and O/A temps play a huge role with the difference in oil consumption.

[jlaudio]

I know that this engine was "Designed to burn oil" and audi states that it is within spec to be consuming up to 1Qt every 700+ miles. I think it was 600 Miles and less that they were replacing these engines from the factory. I meant to write 5w-40 for the weight but i think i am going to switch to 0W-40 on this next oil change. Anybody adding anything to the oil or tried the switch weight & brand method?

i don't think any motor ever has been designed to burn oil. i think burning oil is one of the unintended consequences of stuffing a 4.2L v8 into an a4 engine bay, because of heat.
i bet you have scored cylinder walls, leaky valve seals or any other leak shouldn't be burning oil at the rate you are

[KRp220]

sorry, should have said "my dealership" suggests 5w40 and shoud have elaborated or used a more open term than "variants"

jeez, lots of 'hair splitting' around here

Manufacturer suggest VW 502.00/505.00 approved oils - not just 5w-40, you should "search around, read up" as you suggested to someone else. Not trying to be an ass, just trying to educate

[CapeS4]

i don't think any motor ever has been designed to burn oil. i think burning oil is one of the unintended consequences of stuffing a 4.2L v8 into an a4 engine bay, because of heat.
i bet you have scored cylinder walls, leaky valve seals or any other leak shouldn't be burning oil at the rate you are

That's what I always think when someone's engine is drinking oil. I'm shy of 4k miles, I still have as much as when I changed the oil.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2

[dparm]

If the rate of consumption is steady, I would keep driving it. If the car is consuming more and more as time goes on (especially if it's a rapid change), then you have issues.

[audis4ever]

Has the oil consumption on these engines ever been correlated to the timing chain issues these things are known to have?

[ilko]

I'd like to address the "engine was designed to burn oil" comments. My car is an 05.5. and burnt a total of 0.3 quarts of oil in the past 5700 miles. It burnt 0 quarts in the previous 4800 miles. If you have increased oil consumption your motor is sick. Scored cylinder walls are a likely culprit.

[dparm]

I think the better way to phrase that is, "the engine may burn some oil and that is considered normal". Any engine can and will burn oil, it's more a matter of the rate of consumption staying constant or increasing.



As for audis4ever's post, consumption is generally attributed to improper driving habits when the oil is cold. When the oil is cold, it doesn't flow well to create a barrier between the pistons and cylinder walls. If you apply too much engine load (going WOT or just being too heavy with the gas pedal) while that oil is cold, you increase the piston-cylinder wall wear. Doing this repeatedly will eventually score the cylinder walls which lets even more oil get past. I posted some good info a while ago about oil versus coolant temp, and how even when the coolant temp is "normal" the oil is still very cold (<140 F, when normal operating temp is 200ish). At that time, the oil is many times thicker that it should be.

Beating the shit out of the car won't help things, but it's that period before the oil has warmed up that's crucial.

The timing chain issue has to do with the tensioners/guides being starved of oil or flat-out breaking from stress. The design was revised in the 2005 and beyond models.

[Lefthook]

I'd like to address the "engine was designed to burn oil" comments. My car is an 05.5. and burnt a total of 0.3 quarts of oil in the past 5700 miles. It burnt 0 quarts in the previous 4800 miles. If you have increased oil consumption your motor is sick. Scored cylinder walls are a likely culprit.

It seems to me that leaking valve seals is an equally common culprit - and not nearly as painful as scored cylinder walls...

[audis4ever]

I wish i could say it was because i dont let the car warm up and beat on it.....It could always be from previous owners. I am very strict on letting the car warm up before reving it at all. It really just does not make sense to me.....Usually the only time i get on it or rev her high is when i am on the interstate a midst a 50+ mile drive and i encounter an m3 or another S car or someone that wants to play. The reason i asked about oil consumption and the tensioners is bc i am assuming those are operated by the oil pressure and didnt know if they are what leak....

[dparm]

It could be from previous owners, yes. It's a very slow process that may not reveal itself until 100k+, though some people have seen it very early.

As I said, oil is still very thick even if the temp gauge shows normal. Here's the discussion about it:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...il-temperature

And this big takeaway:


So going WOT when the coolant is warm and the oil is not means that oil you're forcing through is at least three times thicker than it ideally should be! The oil pump is working extra hard to do this, and you're not going to force as much oil into the places it is needed.

[KRp220]

It could be from previous owners, yes. It's a very slow process that may not reveal itself until 100k+, though some people have seen it very early.

As I said, oil is still very thick even if the temp gauge shows normal. Here's the discussion about it:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...il-temperature

And this big takeaway:


So going WOT when the coolant is warm and the oil is not means that oil you're forcing through is at least three times thicker than it ideally should be! The oil pump is working extra hard to do this, and you're not going to force as much oil into the places it is needed.

maybe a dumb question, but how do we know when the oil is up to temp?

[dparm]

You don't, unless you have an oil temp gauge.

The B7 has one in the DIS that you can enable with VAGCOM.

[mittenS4]

Also, these engines were shortened so the metal wall thickness between cylinders is quite a bit less then the other audi 4.2l v8's.
This coupled with how crammed the engine compartment is cause these motors to run hot which can cause oil consumption and overheating which can lead to cylinder walls scoring.

Borescope is an easy way to check the condition of your cylinder walls.

[dparm]

I don't believe the temperature is an issue. The car use oil squirters and has a very robust cooling system. That sort of stuff can be tested very easily on a dyno, especially since these cars are designed to run at high-speed on the autobahn.

My car was on the track several times and it drank almost zero oil after multiple sessions.

[mittenS4]

I don't believe the temperature is an issue. The car use oil squirters and has a very robust cooling system. That sort of stuff can be tested very easily on a dyno, especially since these cars are designed to run at high-speed on the autobahn.

My car was on the track several times and it drank almost zero oil after multiple sessions.

Do you know if the water jackets in these block surround the cylinders 100% or was the path choked off due to the shortened distance between cylinders?

[Dirtracer603]

The design of the cylinder walls (ALUSIL) leaves a cylinder wall that is microscopically not as smooth as steel or plated cylinder walls. Because of this more oil gets left behind in the pockets of the bore surface which is burned during combustion. A poor ring seal due to scored cylinder walls will increase oil consumption because the rings can't effectively wipe the oil from the cylinder wall which leaves more in the combustion chamber to be burned than that or a cylinder with proper ring seal. Not to mention you get more 'blow by' and that also somewhat contributes to oil consumption.

[dparm]

Do you know if the water jackets in these block surround the cylinders 100% or was the path choked off due to the shortened distance between cylinders?

No clue, sorry.

[dparm]

The design of the cylinder walls (ALUSIL) leaves a cylinder wall that is microscopically not as smooth as steel or plated cylinder walls. Because of this more oil gets left behind in the pockets of the bore surface which is burned during combustion. A poor ring seal due to scored cylinder walls will increase oil consumption because the rings can't effectively wipe the oil from the cylinder wall which leaves more in the combustion chamber to be burned than that or a cylinder with proper ring seal. Not to mention you get more 'blow by' and that also somewhat contributes to oil consumption.

Yes, however, those "pores" in the Alusil also allow a very microscopic amount of oil to cling to the cylinder walls which is actually GOOD to reduce friction. (and to carry away heat)

[Dirtracer603]

Yes, however, those "pores" in the Alusil also allow a very microscopic amount of oil to cling to the cylinder walls which is actually GOOD to reduce friction. (and to carry away heat)

I was not knocking the ALUSIL design, I was explaining why these cars tend to have higher oil consupmtion rates.

[landspeed]

Try replacing your PCV valve. They are 60$ at autohausZ.com . I was also burning 1qt every ~1000 miles and the PCV valve was the issue.

[ess_four]

Yes, however, those "pores" in the Alusil also allow a very microscopic amount of oil to cling to the cylinder walls which is actually GOOD to reduce friction. (and to carry away heat)

You would be surprised how much oil a porous surface finish can hold. For the lat 18 months I was working on an external leakage problem. My supplier was attempting to add a sealant in order to reduce the leakage but first had thoroughly clean the specimen. It took them nearly 2 days. They would wipe it clean with cleaning solution and return hours later to find the unit "sweating"

PLEASE NOTE I AM NOT ADVOCATING THAT THE ALUSIL COATING IS THE SOLE ROOT CAUSE TO HIGH OIL CONSUMPTION: ALTHOUGH IT MAY PLAY SOME PART WHEN TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION

[Dirtracer603]

The ALUSIL design will always be a culprit of slight oil consumption right off the top. Again, mine goes through phases where it burns hardly any oil, other times I'm adding a quart or more every 1,000 miles.

[dparm]

Alusil and Nikasil are nothing new. They've been used in a lot of cars for a very long time, most of which are quite reliable.

[M|R]

You don't, unless you have an oil temp gauge.

The B7 has one in the DIS that you can enable with VAGCOM.

Please elaborate...

[dparm]

Actually I might have been wrong. People were saying it was possible. Not sure what the final answer is. Here's the big discussion:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-in-DIC-Yes-No

[S4 lynx]

The ALUSIL design will always be a culprit of slight oil consumption right off the top. Again, mine goes through phases where it burns hardly any oil, other times I'm adding a quart or more every 1,000 miles.

This has been my observation as well. I go from no measurable oil consumption in fall, winter, spring... to 1 qt per 3000 miles in summer. Why? What is the cause of the variable consumption? Another seasoned veteran has proposed variability in the rubber seals of the engine. What does the community think? Surely, more of you have worked through the diagnosis and fix of this issue.

[mforrer]

New to thread. I just bought a 2005 S4 Avant with 94,000 mile on it in November 2013 from Handy Auto in VT and had it shipped to me in Seattle. Handy Auto put Mobile 1 5w-30 in the car. I drove it 500 miles and had to put a quart in. I took the car to Barrier Audi here in Bellevue Wa and they said that was pretty normal for these cars to go through oil every 500 miles. I had them inspect the car and there were a few issues but I also had them change the oil to the current Dealership oil which is Castrol Edge 5w-40. Now the car goes through oil every 300-400 miles. So obviously running different oils does make a difference. There could be other factors involved such as the cold. It has been in the high teens here in the mornings. I let the car warm up for at least 10 minutes before driving to work in the morning and I drive mellow. I don't want to break anything. This is starting to worry me and I'm thinking I made a bad decision in getting one of these cars. It is definitely fun to drive but I'm wondering if its going to be a money pit.

[blaelock]

New to thread. I just bought a 2005 S4 Avant with 94,000 mile on it in November 2013 from Handy Auto in VT and had it shipped to me in Seattle. Handy Auto put Mobile 1 5w-30 in the car. I drove it 500 miles and had to put a quart in. I took the car to Barrier Audi here in Bellevue Wa and they said that was pretty normal for these cars to go through oil every 500 miles. I had them inspect the car and there were a few issues but I also had them change the oil to the current Dealership oil which is Castrol Edge 5w-40. Now the car goes through oil every 300-400 miles. So obviously running different oils does make a difference. There could be other factors involved such as the cold. It has been in the high teens here in the mornings. I let the car warm up for at least 10 minutes before driving to work in the morning and I drive mellow. I don't want to break anything. This is starting to worry me and I'm thinking I made a bad decision in getting one of these cars. It is definitely fun to drive but I'm wondering if its going to be a money pit.

A quart every 500 miles in unacceptable. Seems like the dealership just wanted to brush you off. I believe Audi spec is a quart every 1,000 or 750 miles, but don't quote me on that. Anyway, your engine is burning too much oil. I suspect you either have scored cylinder walls, failing valve seals or both. Get a compression test and borescope inspection and go from there.

[dparm]

A failed PCV valve can cause excessive consumption. When was it changed? Worth a shot -- they're under $100.

[mforrer]

Thanks for the quick responses! I'm going try the PCV valve first since that is going to be the cheapest fix. I have been reading all morning that a clogged PCV valve has been the culprit for a lot of S4 Audi owners. Oh, and the oil was changed 400 miles ago and has gone through 2 quarts already.

[dparm]

If it was burning 2 quarts in 400 miles, the car would be blowing blue smoke all the time and the bumper/exhaust would be oily.

[ginch]

Not sure how a PCV valve can reduce rpm's or eliminate chain rattle!!!!!

[CaptainMorganS4]

Any new information on this subject?