DIY: Quarter panel removal

[daihashi]

So I doubt anyone will need to do this, but just in case I thought this might come in handy.

Short story, about a year ago (give or take). Some mother, who wasn't paying attention, decided that her light was green and was traveling at ramming speed. Despite contesting it and asking the officer to watch the light sequence; because if he did he would see her story does not make sense, he decided to write me up at fault. Due to this her insurance would not cover me, and without getting into detail about why.. neither would mine, at least not without a huge deductible. I was so frustrated that I parked the car for a very long time.

Well fast forward to 2013. I've had a parts car in my drive way for some time now and decided to get started on pulling some things to put onto my car. One of which is the quarter panel. I am really lazy at writing DIY... I always have the intention of writing one, take the pictures but then never get around to it. So I've decided to write this DIY as I am progressing through it myself. For those wondering why I didn't just pull the dent or bang it out.. see the pics below:





I did attempt to bang it out, but the metal was too stretched. It might be hard to tell, but it's a bit wavy, and the arch; as well as the lip, will never have the same shape to them again. This was the best I was able to get it. Plus the wheel well is just not the same as it used to be, it rubs at times. Best to just replace the entire thing:

[daihashi]

These first few steps have instructions that can be found on the web, or in the bentley; so I am not including pictures.

Step 1: Remove trunk lid.
Step 2: Remove interior trunk liners
Step 3: remove tail lights
Step 4. Remove Nuts holding on rear bumper cover; remove rear bumper cover.
Step 5: Remove rear bumper rebar.

Step6: With 60 grit sand paper, Lightly sand around the seams where the quarter panel appears to join with the body. This will help to reveal where the spot welds are that you need to drill. Look at the photo's below. You'll notice that the outline of circles start to appear in the areas that you sand.



Step 7: With a 1/8" drill bit, create a dimple in the center of the weld. The photo I took of this was blurry so I'll be repeating the following photo twice. Notice the dimple in the center of the circle that's been cut here. This will allow your spot weld cutter to remain in place. Do this for every spot weld that you've discovered by the sanding you did in step 6.



Step 8: Attach your spot weld cutter to your drill bit. You can purchase them at harbor freight (clicky clicky).. but 2-3 of them. Put the center bit into the dimple that you just drilled. These are spring loaded, so press in firmly and begin to drill slowly... stopping every few rotations. You only want to cut through the spot weld, so if you have a parts car then be sure to practice on that first. You need the material to remain on the other side so that you can make a plug weld when you go to put the quarter panel onto your car. Do this for every spot weld.



Step 9: You'll notice that in some areas there are spots that look like there are long welds. A spot where this can be easily seen is along the trunk lid area and around the tail lights. These are actually not welds but a chemically bonded area. Space age Nasa Technology. If this was the only way the quarter panel was bonded then this would be a piece of cake:






Step 10: With a heatgun set for 1200-1500F, heat those seams. Take a large flat head screw driver and begin scraping. You'll notice that those seams will smoke like crazy; that's good.. means that the bond is breaking. Be sure to scrape into the crevice that is left behind as well.



Step 11: After you get the bulk of the bonding agent scraped off, take your screw driver and lightly wedge it between the quarter panel and body. I chose to keep using my heat gun to make it a bit easier. It should start easily seperate along the spot welds. If you look carefully you can still see some bonding agent where the tip of my screw driver is at, this is why you want to continue to use the heat gun.




This is how it should look. Don't pry hard... pry very lightly, you want this to retain it's shape when you go to put it on your car.





To be continued as time allows me to progress further.

[daihashi]

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[CHARLES A4]

The quarter that you fixed still looks good assuming you didn't have the same tools and resources a body shop with have

[daihashi]

The quarter that you fixed still looks good assuming you didn't have the same tools and resources a body shop with have

I only had basic tools that you can get at harbor freight.. Really though replacing the panel is a lot less labor, at least so far. It is pretty intimidating though. If you don't have a parts car then you may want to go to a pick and pull yard and practice there on random cars.

[jalcom1]

Thanks for the effort! I need to do the same thing to rid myself of a rusted rear quarter.

Fwiw I too hate writing dyi's. That is why despite my mods I don't have a single build thread or car intro. Maybe some day I'll upload all my pics...

[Nollywood]

This is one to watch, I'll be removing the rear quarter panels on my '03 Avant pretty soon.

*Subscribed*

[Johnny1.8T]

You may have shed some light on my crappy looking quarter panels thanks to the PO of my car

[Audiguy1234]

I will probably have to do the same when it warms up a bit. Are you going to cut part of the quarter panel and weld the sheet metal?

[daihashi]

I will probably have to do the same when it warms up a bit. Are you going to cut part of the quarter panel and weld the sheet metal?

Nope, I'm not wanting to do a patch. My quarter is too far damaged for that. The existing metal is already fatigued and doing a patch may not allow for things to align properly.

My initial thoughts are to retain most of the quarter panel and cut along the 1/4 glass on the the middle of the c pillar, this will give me 2 very small belt cuts; but that may require removing the back windshield and the quarter glass in order to do it correctly.. something I'm not sure that I want to bother with. If I don't go with this then I'll cut just below the quarter glass. In either case re-alignment of the quarter panel should be fairly straight forward since I'm keeping all the flanged areas on the quarter panel. I can just clamp it in place and cut to fit.. This will give me a very accurate installation as opposed to trying to trace a piece of the panel and patch weld

[Audiguy1234]

I see, it seems like removing the rear glass and quarter glass will be difficult.

[daihashi]

I see, it seems like removing the rear glass and quarter glass will be difficult.

yep.. it would probably give the best results, but I agree, do I really want to go through that much trouble? Probably not.. I'm taking my time on this so I'll think about it.

A little progress today. Continued stripping out the interior. Going to make a pair of couches out of the front/rear seats and door cards. Haven't decided if I'm going to use the doors as well. Tomorrow I will start to drill out more spot welds along the rear passenger seat/door area.

[CHARLES A4]

why not try to see how much it would be to fix the quarter now it might be less of a headache

[daihashi]

why not try to see how much it would be to fix the quarter now it might be less of a headache

because the metal is fatigued. Upon impact the metal heats, stretches and warps... Even if you bang it back into place the metal is now longer than it was before the accident, so you'll never achieve the same shape. If the damage wasn't so severe then it may be feasible. There are ways to shrink metal but it leads to warping and other problems.

besides, I have wheel well damage.. So that needs to be replaced anyway.

Trust me its easier to just replace the panel; and the results will be better. Similar to how its easier to put a brand new cylinder head on a car than it is to rebuild and machine a head that has valve and other damage via a snapped timing belt.

[A4Dit]

That isnt space age material. It is seam sealer. Its used to cover tbe welds and gaps that the factory uses to piece together body parts. It is cheaper for companies to spot weld body parts together, they then cover tbe gaps with seam sealer.

[daihashi]

That isnt space age material. It is seam sealer. Its used to cover tbe welds and gaps that the factory uses to piece together body parts. It is cheaper for companies to spot weld body parts together, they then cover tbe gaps with seam sealer.

It was sarcasm :-(

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[A4Dit]

Im well aware that you were being sarcastic with the nasa comment. I was just trying to point out what the stuff was in case you didnt know. : (

[Nollywood]

I've looked at the rear quarter panels on my Avant. I'm going to be removing them all the way up to the roof. The spot welds are under the gutter trim. I've looked at the B7 RS4 rear quarter panels, and they're the same. So there really won't be any cutting involved, and it'll make alignment much easier.



I ground the paint down on a junker B7 Avant, and the factory joins in the red circled areas are clearly visible. Thanks for starting this thread, Daihashi.

[daihashi]

Great picture. Very valuable information. Do you have a technique you use to remove the rear or quarter glass?

Originally I wanted to make cuts similar to what your picture shows but glass removal is stopping me from going that route for now.

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[daihashi]

Also, I caught the flu, but rest assured this DIY has not died out.

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[Nollywood]

Great picture. Very valuable information. Do you have a technique you use to remove the rear or quarter glass?

Originally I wanted to make cuts similar to what your picture shows but glass removal is stopping me from going that route for now.

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I've cut out front windshields, as well as one tailgate screen, not too bad. But the rear quarters are not so easy - the sharp corners and awkward sitting position make it a not so nice job. I'm just getting my buddy who's works for a glass replacement firm to come remove them. I also need the glass out to get to the trim rivets.

[daihashi]

I've cut out front windshields, as well as one tailgate screen, not too bad. But the rear quarters are not so easy - the sharp corners and awkward sitting position make it a not so nice job. I'm just getting my buddy who's works for a glass replacement firm to come remove them. I also need the glass out to get to the trim rivets.

yeah, I might take the car to a glass place and see if they will: remove the glass, keep the glass there... Then I'll have the car towed back to my house, swap panels, tow back, install.

but first I think I'll practice glass removal on the parts car. See if I can at least figure out how to remove it without messing anything up, let someone else install it. That would cut down on towing and labor cost.

[Johnny1.8T]

I've looked at the rear quarter panels on my Avant. I'm going to be removing them all the way up to the roof. The spot welds are under the gutter trim. I've looked at the B7 RS4 rear quarter panels, and they're the same. So there really won't be any cutting involved, and it'll make alignment much easier.



I ground the paint down on a junker B7 Avant, and the factory joins in the red circled areas are clearly visible. Thanks for starting this thread, Daihashi.

To save me from confusion, a B6 sedan's spot welds are in the same places. Correct?

Also, where can you buy rear quarter panels from? Ive never seen anywhere that sells them new

[daihashi]

To save me from confusion, a B6 sedan's spot welds are in the same places. Correct?

Also, where can you buy rear quarter panels from? Ive never seen anywhere that sells them new

yes.. And you can't buy them new, but you can find them on car-part.com or ebay. Alternatively you could buy an entire parts car.

[Johnny1.8T]

yes.. And you can't buy them new, but you can find them on car-part.com or ebay. Alternatively you could buy an entire parts car.

Are you sure? I recall reading this thread in the past and it looks like this guy had purchased new quarter panels for his B6 A4 to B7 RS4 conversion. Not trying to say you don't know what you're talking about. I just would like a pair of brand new ones if I could get my hands on them!

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...6)-to-RS4-(B7)

[Nollywood]

To save me from confusion, a B6 sedan's spot welds are in the same places. Correct?

Also, where can you buy rear quarter panels from? Ive never seen anywhere that sells them new

A B6 Sedan's spot welds in the trunk recess are the same as the Avant's, obviously the locations will differ. The ones in the roof (under the gutter trim) are in the same location. The ones in the sill are also in the same place on both Sedan and Avant.

I originally bought rear quarter panels from an eBay seller, but sold them on. They were cut just below the rear quarter glass, and I wasn't happy, with the thought of having horizontal welds on both sides. I'm buying mine new from Audi.

[Nollywood]

Are you sure? I recall reading this thread in the past and it looks like this guy had purchased new quarter panels for his B6 A4 to B7 RS4 conversion. Not trying to say you don't know what you're talking about. I just would like a pair of brand new ones if I could get my hands on them!

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...6)-to-RS4-(B7)

Yep, he bought new, though used are available if you're patient enough to de-seam them, and drill out the spot welds.

[Nollywood]

yes.. And you can't buy them new, but you can find them on car-part.com or ebay. Alternatively you could buy an entire parts car.

Urmm, not true. They are available new from Audi, both A4 / S4 and RS4 quarter panels.

[daihashi]

Are you sure? I recall reading this thread in the past and it looks like this guy had purchased new quarter panels for his B6 A4 to B7 RS4 conversion. Not trying to say you don't know what you're talking about. I just would like a pair of brand new ones if I could get my hands on them!

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...6)-to-RS4-(B7)

I'm very familiar with that thread. So let me rephrase this... There is no place online where you can buy a brand new aftermarket quarter panel. You can buy an OEM quarter panel from the dealer or somewhere like JimEllis online... but you are paying OEM dealer prices. A grade 'AA' used quarter panel can be had for $175-250 if you shop around. One from the dealer is probably about $800 or possibly more. Here are the part numbers you probably need to put together what you could easily get on the used market for pennies. You may need more than this but from what I can tell this is what's needed at bare minimum:

8E0809411 (or 412)
8E5809839 (or 840)
8E0810171E (or 172)

http://www.jimellisaudiparts.com/pro...8E0809411.html
http://www.jimellisaudiparts.com/pro...8E5809839.html
http://www.jimellisaudiparts.com/pro...E0810171E.html

Brand new, that is $1215. The RS4 quarter panels would of course be much more expensive than that.

[daihashi]

Urmm, not true. They are available new from Audi, both A4 / S4 and RS4 quarter panels.

See my post above this one; for some it may be worth it, I said that my statement wasn't completely true... but for pretty good reason. Paying OEM prices for replacement parts completely defeats the purpose of doing a quarter panel replacement yourself IMO.

And anyone who says that their insurance had the body shop put new panels on their car are probably talking out their rear. If insurance had to pay that much money then they would opt to just total a car. I was quoted about 2-3k, for labor alone, to replace the quarter panel like I'm doing. Add in the material and labor cost for paint, and then the cost of the actual parts themselves and it's very easy to hit 100% of the value of the car to do a repair. Trust me, you're getting used parts even if it says "new" on your receipt.

[Johnny1.8T]

I'm very familiar with that thread. So let me rephrase this... There is no place online where you can buy a brand new aftermarket quarter panel. You can buy an OEM quarter panel from the dealer or somewhere like JimEllis online... but you are paying OEM dealer prices. A grade 'AA' used quarter panel can be had for $175-250 if you shop around. One from the dealer is probably about $800 or possibly more. Here are the part numbers you probably need to put together what you could easily get on the used market for pennies. You may need more than this but from what I can tell this is what's needed at bare minimum:

8E0809411 (or 412)
8E5809839 (or 840)
8E0810171E (or 172)

http://www.jimellisaudiparts.com/pro...8E0809411.html
http://www.jimellisaudiparts.com/pro...8E5809839.html
http://www.jimellisaudiparts.com/pro...E0810171E.html

Brand new, that is $1215. The RS4 quarter panels would of course be much more expensive than that.

Again, I wasn't taking a stab at you or trying to sound ignorant at all when I asked "are you sure?" about buying new quarter panels. So I hope no offense was taken! If I were to buy brand new quarter panels they would have to be OEM. Whether from an aftermarket source or from the dealer itself. I wouldn't doubt one bit that the quarters are really expensive from the dealer, but there's nothing I love more than an OEM fit. Considering I worked (just quit last week for a new job) at an Audi dealer and am still cool with the parts guy, I should see what the quarters would run me at cost price. I wonder what the difference is over list price. I may just have to find that out on Saturday when I go to pick up my tool box

[daihashi]

If I lived north then I might be interested in new panels because of rust, but I live in Texas. So no rust issues here.

Also when I said there are no after market panels for our cars that meant that OEM is your only option; whether that be new from the dealer or pulling it off a car a car yourself.

Id be interested in seeing if there is anything more needed beyond the 3 part numbers I listed above.

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[Nollywood]

See my post above this one; for some it may be worth it, I said that my statement wasn't completely true... but for pretty good reason. Paying OEM prices for replacement parts completely defeats the purpose of doing a quarter panel replacement yourself IMO.

And anyone who says that their insurance had the body shop put new panels on their car are probably talking out their rear. If insurance had to pay that much money then they would opt to just total a car. I was quoted about 2-3k, for labor alone, to replace the quarter panel like I'm doing. Add in the material and labor cost for paint, and then the cost of the actual parts themselves and it's very easy to hit 100% of the value of the car to do a repair. Trust me, you're getting used parts even if it says "new" on your receipt.

I understand perfectly where you're coming from.

Paying for brand new quarter panels does not defeat the purpose (at least in my case). I'm doing an OEM B7 RS4 conversion. I know what the parts cost, I've been in the auto industry as an Audi Master Tech for 23 years (yeah, I'm old). I've done this with my old B5, B7 parts here work out £1,877 cheaper overall, as B5 RS4 was produced for only 18 months, B7 was in production for 42 months.

And over here, insurance companies DO use brand new quarter panels on cars, depending on their value. I've had this twice - my '90 Ur quattro 20V had a damaged rear quarter from a wayward garbage truck. It was repaired through my insurance - brand new from Audi. It was on back order, and took 17 days to arrive from Germany. Retail for that quarter panel back then (1993) was £2,460 ($3,881).

I also had a rear quarter panel replaced on my '94 Audi S2 Avant in 2003, due to a bad previous repair. Retail for a rear quarter panel back in 2003? £533.67 ($842). And no, the panels weren't used, they were brand new OEM. I was there to see what went onto my cars. Cars get totalled for different reasons - the current value of the car has a lot to do with that decision. My wife works for an insurance underwriter, so I keep abreast of all these things.

Yeah, used quarter panels can be used, but lots of bodyshops (myself included) don't like working with used, unless they're bolt-on. It's a lot more work in terms of labour, to fit a panel as large as a rear quarter, that's been drilled out and unpicked, the edges need lots more work, sometimes hours more. And often a used quarter seller will tell you to come down to remove it yourself. Time consuming, especially if the car's in a junker, with other cars around, or it's stacked two cars high.

A bodyshop here contracted to do an insurance repair, will not put "new" on the receipt, if it's not. Smaller garages have been shut down for such practices in the past, and bigger insurance approved ones just aren't willing to take the risk.

[a4darkness]

Great thread, carry on gents.

[daihashi]

Yeah, used quarter panels can be used, but lots of bodyshops (myself included) don't like working with used, unless they're bolt-on. It's a lot more work in terms of labour, to fit a panel as large as a rear quarter, that's been drilled out and unpicked, the edges need lots more work, sometimes hours more. And often a used quarter seller will tell you to come down to remove it yourself. Time consuming, especially if the car's in a junker, with other cars around, or it's stacked two cars high.

Not trying to be rude, but thats the entire point of this DIY.

Im not a body person, but i have been practicing on one of my spare cars before attempting this on mine. Straightening an edge is not difficult at all. It takes time but in itself it is not something complicated to do, and if care is taken during removal then it doesn't take hours to straighten.

Removal also takes time, but most of that time is spent on interior removal and not panel removal.

You have your opinion as a body man... a person who charges another for a service where the cost is passed down to your customer, and I have mine as an individual. I don't know about in your part of the world, but shops here charge by book time regardless if it takes less. So of course new is preferred, more money in their pocket for the least amount of effort.

A new panel and wheel well is approx $1200. I can get a used one for $200; making the difference $1000. Lets say it takes 7 hours for removal and install. That's about the equivalent of a savings of $143/hr. Even if it was 10 then that's $100/hr, well worth it for a bit of work.

For those that can afford it then more power to them; but for the price of a brand new panel I can buy an entire parts car... part it out, keep the panel and pocket a big profit. Which will cover the cost of paint and materials with some cash to spare.

The current value of my car obviously plays a large role in my opinion.

We see it two different ways and neither side is wrong. So lets leave it at that.

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[daihashi]

Going to do some more work on this today after I buy a new drill. For some reason the Chuck in the old one got screwed up and now my bits move with a slight wobble. Been so caught up buying parts for the build that I haven't gotten around to buying a drill so I can finish swapping quarter panels.

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