SQ5 has more power than S4

**Leor604** · 01-13-2013 03:23 PM

The new SQ5 with the 3.0 TFSI is rated at 354 hp and 347 lb-ft of torque.

Do you think Audi really bumped the output, or are these the "real" numbers produced by this engine? Most agree that our engine is somewhat underrated at 333 hp.

If Audi did find more power for the SQ5, why would they not have bumped the B8.5 S4's as well. Is this an in-house tune that is holding the bypass valve closed a little longer? Lots of questions that I'm sure will be answered as these hit the streets.

Will be interesting to see some SQ5 dyno numbers to see if there really is a 20 hp bump at the wheels, and some logs that may show how they have done it.

Edit: Never mind. Just saw this has already been discussed in Chatterbox.

**jrclutch55** · 01-13-2013 03:28 PM

Manufacturers quotes crank hp numbers not whp numbers. Although we all know the b8 s4 is under rated from the factory

**moyenecorniche** · 01-13-2013 03:32 PM

In the twisties I'd prefer the S4.......

**Leor604** · 01-13-2013 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by jrclutch55

Manufacturers quotes crank hp numbers not whp numbers. Although we all know the b8 s4 is under rated from the factory

Thanks, I was quoting round numbers.

21 hp bump less 15% -20% loss will be about 17 or 18 at the wheels. Enough to be measurable and compared to stock S4 numbers to see if there *is* a real increase or a marketing department increase.

**Pearanalytics** · 01-13-2013 03:59 PM

I guess it's better than overstating the power like BMW did on the Alpina B7.

**Fourplay** · 01-13-2013 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Leor604

Thanks, I was quoting round numbers.

21 hp bump less 15% -20% loss will be about 17 or 18 at the wheels. Enough to be measurable and compared to stock S4 numbers to see if there *is* a real increase or a marketing department increase.

It's more like a 25% loss for a Torsen AWD system. That said, the engine is probably the same in both applications; the numbers in the S4 are underrated to prevent encroachment into RS5/RS4 territory and to ensure the car is compared with the 335i instead of the M3.

Originally Posted by Pearanalytics

I guess it's better than overstating the power like BMW did on the Alpina B7.

Alpina was the manufacturer, so I would blame Alpina before I blamed BMW. In any case, saying a car is over/under rated on power based on one dyno test is a bit ridiculous. The new S8 is probably underrated, but I would be very surprised if the B7 was not making the claimed 540 chp, since a 750 makes 520 and the B7 has upgraded turbos and intercoolers.

**thedollardoctor** · 01-13-2013 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Fourplay

It's more like a 25% loss for a Torsen AWD system. That said, the engine is probably the same in both applications; the numbers in the S4 are underrated to prevent encroachment into RS5/RS4 territory and to ensure the car is compared with the 335i instead of the M3.

What HE said

**13S4** · 01-13-2013 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Fourplay

It's more like a 25% loss for a Torsen AWD system. That said, the engine is probably the same in both applications; the numbers in the S4 are underrated to prevent encroachment into RS5/RS4 territory and to ensure the car is compared with the 335i instead of the M3.

Alpina was the manufacturer, so I would blame Alpina before I blamed BMW. In any case, saying a car is over/under rated on power based on one dyno test is a bit ridiculous. The new S8 is probably underrated, but I would be very surprised if the B7 was not making the claimed 540 chp, since a 750 makes 520 and the B7 has upgraded turbos and intercoolers.

I know Dynos don't mean shit, but this is a very convincing video. It's been posted here a few times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT0r6xQJU_4

**Fourplay** · 01-13-2013 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by 13S4

I know Dynos don't mean shit, but this is a very convincing video. It's been posted here a few times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT0r6xQJU_4

I've seen that video, and I know the S8s are very fast, and I certainly don't think a B7 could run with an S8. But I don't think the Alpina is awful either. 0-60 in 4.3 and 1/4 in 12.6 is not bad for a huge, heavy sedan. Not to mention the S8 could have been a press rocket. That car is rated at 520hp and is (if the dyno is representative of a stock car) actually running at ~600hp.

I guess my point is that the S8 is way, way better than a B7, but that doesn't mean the B7s power is overrated. It just means the S8 has supercar performance in a straight line.

**westwest888** · 01-13-2013 06:34 PM

You could dyno an SQ5 and an S4 back to back and find out.

**robxc80** · 01-13-2013 07:48 PM

The most recent motor trend compares the s8 and the b7 . They make mention of the inflated power specs of the b7.

S8 blows the b7 away in the comparo.

**QuattroLife** · 01-13-2013 07:55 PM

Holy shit 25%? That's insane!

Then again they'd have to bump up the power due to its additional weight. Imagine an extra 500 pounds on our cars lol.

**Ynnekdude** · 01-13-2013 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by Fourplay

I've seen that video, and I know the S8s are very fast, and I certainly don't think a B7 could run with an S8. But I don't think the Alpina is awful either. 0-60 in 4.3 and 1/4 in 12.6 is not bad for a huge, heavy sedan. Not to mention the S8 could have been a press rocket. That car is rated at 520hp and is (if the dyno is representative of a stock car) actually running at ~600hp.

I guess my point is that the S8 is way, way better than a B7, but that doesn't mean the B7s power is overrated. It just means the S8 has supercar performance in a straight line.

Doubt it's a press rocket. The car is nuts.

On wet pavement with TC on...

**psmitty95** · 01-13-2013 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Ynnekdude

Doubt it's a press rocket. The car is nuts.

On wet pavement with TC on...

Holy shit...

**PaperishPlastic** · 01-13-2013 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by Fourplay

It's more like a 25% loss for a Torsen AWD system. That said, the engine is probably the same in both applications; the numbers in the S4 are underrated to prevent encroachment into RS5/RS4 territory and to ensure the car is compared with the 335i instead of the M3.

Alpina was the manufacturer, so I would blame Alpina before I blamed BMW. In any case, saying a car is over/under rated on power based on one dyno test is a bit ridiculous. The new S8 is probably underrated, but I would be very surprised if the B7 was not making the claimed 540 chp, since a 750 makes 520 and the B7 has upgraded turbos and intercoolers.

our cars don't have a 25% drivetrain loss don't spread false info. Also when did 750's start coming with 520hp? What country?

**s4buckeye** · 01-13-2013 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by moyenecorniche

In the twisties I'd prefer the S4.......

Yeah man, I thought that as well. Then I drove my Cayenne. More room in the seats, in the back and it more than holds it's own in the twisties.

Unless you are tracking at least once a month or live where the police do not write tickets for going 80 mph in 45 mph twisties, then you may want to rethink that statement. Other than gas mileage, as a realistic DD with kids, dogs, etc. the right SUV makes perfect sense.

The SQ5 is badass.

**essfour** · 01-14-2013 05:06 AM

I just have a feeling - and maybe I am pessimistic - that the SQ5 motor is a slightly up-rated version of our engines and is a preview of exactly what will be in the B9...

**PitchS4** · 01-14-2013 05:13 AM

Originally Posted by essfour

I just have a feeling - and maybe I am pessimistic - that the SQ5 motor is a slightly up-rated version of our engines and is a preview of exactly what will be in the B9...

Agreed. Audi has already shown the 3.0T in several other models with manipulated tunes based on the segment. No reason to think they wouldn't do that here.

**SASKCHAUCH** · 01-14-2013 06:02 AM

Fingers crossed for twin turbo b9!....... The sq5 is a neat idea though, look forward to seeing some modded

**essfour** · 01-14-2013 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by SASKCHAUCH

Fingers crossed for twin turbo b9!....... The sq5 is a neat idea though, look forward to seeing some modded

HA - you should just sell your B8 and buy a B5... or swap a rebuilt 2.7TT in your car... I think we are all hoping for a bit of a repeat twin turbo motor in the next generation S4, it is just funny that our "ideal" has already been accomplished a decade earlier...

**Leor604** · 01-14-2013 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by PitchS4

Agreed. Audi has already shown the 3.0T in several other models with manipulated tunes based on the segment. No reason to think they wouldn't do that here.

Yeah, but AFAIK, they were all lower than the S4's implementation. Going lower is easy and does not put additional stress on the engine.

Maybe Audi has been monitoring actual warranty claims due to aftermarket tunes and, since the failure rate is near zero (actually zero?) has decided that a slightly more aggressive tune is not going to send rods through the block.

**Auditude2.0T** · 01-14-2013 11:55 AM

The B9 S4 will have a 5 cylinder turbo and be lighter.

**thedollardoctor** · 01-14-2013 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Auditude2.0T

The B9 S4 will have a 5 cylinder turbo and be lighter.

TTRS :-)

**Nighthawk** · 01-14-2013 08:31 PM

Notice the SQ5, or other models, do not have DSG. Wonder if it will all go back to tip for reliability sake...

**s4buckeye** · 01-14-2013 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by Nighthawk

Notice the SQ5, or other models, do not have DSG. Wonder if it will all go back to tip for reliability sake...

Per June 2012 C&D:

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...-and-info-news

Too much torque for DSG in the SQ5, at least for TDI.

**centexvic** · 01-14-2013 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by s4buckeye

Yeah man, I thought that as well. Then I drove my Cayenne. More room in the seats, in the back and it more than holds it's own in the twisties.

Unless you are tracking at least once a month or live where the police do not write tickets for going 80 mph in 45 mph twisties, then you may want to rethink that statement. Other than gas mileage, as a realistic DD with kids, dogs, etc. the right SUV makes perfect sense.

The SQ5 is badass.

I drive an S4, and my wife drives a Cayenne S. Her car is slightly nicer (mostly because of the Burmester speakers) but it will not hold it's own with the S4 in the twisties. It will hold it's own against lesser sports sedans, which is kind of startling. For our next car we will probably split the difference between the S4 and Cayenne and get the new Macan crossover.

**s4buckeye** · 01-14-2013 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by centexvic

I drive an S4, and my wife drives a Cayenne S. Her car is slightly nicer (mostly because of the Burmester speakers) but it will not hold it's own with the S4 in the twisties. It will hold it's own against lesser sports sedans, which is kind of startling. For our next car we will proably split the difference between the S4 and Cayenne and get the new Macan crossover.

I drove the Cayenne S and the B8 S4 back to back on the same twisties. It did indeed hold it's own in the twisties vs. the S4. Perhaps you need to push the S further.

IMO, the Cayenne S is more than "slightly nicer" as well.

I have driven my wife's M3 in the same twisties and it left both in the dust.

**PaperishPlastic** · 01-14-2013 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by s4buckeye

I drove the Cayenne S and the B8 S4 back to back on the same twisties. It did indeed hold it's own in the twisties vs. the S4. Perhaps you need to push the S further.

IMO, the Cayenne S is more than "slightly nicer" as well.

I have driven my wife's M3 in the same twisties and it left both in the dust.

You obviously needed to push the S4 further, cayenne Scan not keep up with the S4 with a proper driver.

**s4buckeye** · 01-14-2013 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by PaperishPlastic

You obviously needed to push the S4 further, cayenne Scan not keep up with the S4 with a proper driver.

Haha, of course I didn't say it would beat it or even come close. The Cayenne S (2nd gen) was respectable when compared to the S4, and therefore it held its own. It can keep up to some extent, but after all....it's an SUV.

**13S4** · 01-15-2013 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by s4buckeye

Haha, of course I didn't say it would beat it or even come close. The Cayenne S (2nd gen) was respectable when compared to the S4, and therefore it held its own. It can keep up to some extent, but after all....it's an SUV.

My father in law has a 2012 Cayenne Turbo, and I could not keep up with him. Those are beastly machines.

Edit: Twisties, and straight line.

**s4buckeye** · 01-15-2013 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by 13S4

My father in law has a 2012 Cayenne Turbo, and I could not keep up with him. Those are beastly machines.

Edit: Twisties, and straight line.

For sure on the Turbo and the new Turbo S. As for the 2nd gen N/A S version (2011), per MT it did 26.1 sec in the F8 course:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...t/viewall.html

The June, 2012 H2H MT test of the S4 vs. the 335i had the S4 in the F8 course at 25.6 sec:

http://wot.motortrend.com/audi-s4-an...#axzz2I1adsmLU

The .5 sec gap is not much at all between the two in a F8 course setup across almost a half minute of driving, i.e. a 2% difference.

**essfour** · 01-15-2013 09:09 AM

My 60 y/o mother drives a 2011 cayenne turbo and embarrasses me when she pulls on to the highway...

As far as keeping up in the turns, it really depends on whether or not the particular cayenne was equipped with the pdcc option. If it was then the cayenne would be just as fast as a S4 with full suspension mods... I drive them back to back frequently and am sad to realize that my "sport" sedan can hardly keep up with my mother's car...

**13S4** · 01-15-2013 09:11 AM

The transmission and suspension in the Cayenne Turbo is amazing. The vehicle is also a lot smaller than people think. It's really not much bigger (if at all) than a Q5.

**SASKCHAUCH** · 01-15-2013 09:23 AM

like

Originally Posted by Auditude2.0T

The B9 S4 will have a 5 cylinder turbo and be lighter.

**s4buckeye** · 01-15-2013 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by essfour

My 60 y/o mother drives a 2011 cayenne turbo and embarrasses me when she pulls on to the highway...

As far as keeping up in the turns, it really depends on whether or not the particular cayenne was equipped with the pdcc option. If it was then the cayenne would be just as fast as a S4 with full suspension mods... I drive them back to back frequently and am sad to realize that my "sport" sedan can hardly keep up with my mother's car...

True. The Cayenne S MT tester appears to only have been equipped with PASM and not full PDCC. If it had PDCC as well I am sure it would have been as fast if not faster than the S4 in the F8 course.

From my perspective, the S has been a great car all the way around. The SQ5 will be awesome as well.

**beyond infiniti** · 01-15-2013 08:10 PM

I had a dream last night that the B112.5 S4's will come with 655 hp...just be patient :)

**catch** · 01-15-2013 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by moyenecorniche

In the twisties I'd prefer the S4.......

And on a straight road, in my driveway and in my garage lol

**CJ_S4** · 01-16-2013 12:33 PM

Just found the press release from Audi on the SQ5, it states that...

The new SQ5 is powered by a free-revving, supercharged, three-liter V6 engine with a displacement of 2,995 cc. Its compressor sits in the 90-degree V of the cylinder banks and is belt-driven by the crankshaft. Two rotors inside the supercharger spin at over 20,000 rpm. The air gap between them is just a few thousandths of a millimeter. The supercharger compresses the intake air to as much as 0.8 bar; two intercoolers then cool it for greater power.

If you do the math that is 12.6 psi which I don't think is any more than our cars, but according to APR's chart below the 20,000rpm is more than stock for the S4.

Just an observation...

**Kandiru** · 01-16-2013 03:45 PM

No third pedal, made for the herd.

**Leor604** · 01-16-2013 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by CJ_S4

Just found the press release from Audi on the SQ5, it states that...

If you do the math that is 12.6 psi which I don't think is any more than our cars, but according to APR's chart below the 20,000rpm is more than stock for the S4.

Does this mean factory SQ5 pulley is smaller than S4 pulley?