MTM tune > Revo???

[Vi112]

There was a friendly run of three cars:

MTM tuned B8 S4 (left most)
Revo tuned B8 S4 (middle car)
MTM tuned B5 RS4 (camera car) + 2 passengers in it.



You can see, Revo car lost nearly instantly, MTM B8 held up quite well, but B5 RS4 is quickly anyway.

WTF with Revo tune?
How MTM tune can be stronger?

[Auditude2.0T]

This has been discussed way too many times...

The MTM tune is a piggy back- it's been shown to make no power over stock.

Revo is an actual flash, it's a real tune. It is a proven tune that has put down spectacular numbers.

This video has no validity- who knows if that car is even tuned or what the story is.

There's no doubt that a Revo S4 will make a mockery of an MTM car. So would APR, GIAC and StaSiS

[jeffc31337]

Street races don't do a lot for me too many variables. Did the revo car get spooked on the upcoming traffic, what tune level the were the cars(was one race gas?) and what supporting mods if any there were etc.

Show me some track times for an MTM or some data logs and we can make an informed analysis.

[Vi112]

All three guys are from Russian Audi-club forum.
Everything is known about these cars. I think Russian Revo dealer can confirm he flashed this car.

If there are questions about cars, I can translate them to Russian forum.

As to gas - at least MTM car is confirmed to run 93 pump gas.

[MrFunk]

All three guys are from Russian Audi-club forum.
Everything is known about these cars. I think Russian Revo dealer can confirm he flashed this car.

You stating this does not make it fact. How can anyone confirm anything from a low quality vid?

[helix139]

How's the quality of Russian gas? Revo would be fairly sensitive to bad gas with the ridiculous timing they run, IMO.

[DLAB]

Did the revo car get spooked on the upcoming traffic...

Yeah, he got the jump on the other two cars, but slowly lost it... probably trying to make room to dodge the oncoming cars in his lane.

[Vi112]

Yeah, he got the jump on the other two cars, but slowly lost it... probably trying to make room to dodge the oncoming cars in his lane.

Why guessing when it is possible to just ask? Revo owner said everything was fine, he was just plain slower. He actually got the jump first because he was first to press a gas pedal.

Gas can be an issue, but still if MTM is that close to stock, Revo cannot lose even with 91 gas.

[thedollardoctor]

Street races don't do a lot for me too many variables. Did the revo car get spooked on the upcoming traffic, what tune level the were the cars(was one race gas?) and what supporting mods if any there were etc.

Show me some track times for an MTM or some data logs and we can make an informed analysis.

+1, yep! Besides street racing is illegal

[marty was here]

Why guessing when it is possible to just ask? Revo owner said everything was fine, he was just plain slower. He actually got the jump first because he was first to press a gas pedal.

Gas can be an issue, but still if MTM is that close to stock, Revo cannot lose even with 91 gas.

mtm doesnt have a stellar record on here (search voltron head for the og reporting back from 2010).

that being said, if MTM is making it work on a piggy, more power to them (literally). just dont see that being possible given the previous experiences of this forum.

[PaperishPlastic]

The Revo car might have been in stock mode. If you disconnect your battery the software reverts back to stock

[Vi112]

The Revo car might have been in stock mode. If you disconnect your battery the software reverts back to stock

May be the case, I will ask.

I also want to understand how this may happen :(

[DATZ]

The Revo car might have been in stock mode. If you disconnect your battery the software reverts back to stock

Do you know if that's true for APR's switchable tune as well, or is it just a Revo specific thing?

[madmadS4]

The whole MTM debacle on this forum was centered around one guy who had a bad experience and ever since then, everyone denounced it as utter crap. Personally I'd love to see someone in the US look at it closely again and provide us with data etc. I've seen too many European / Russian videos showing great success with MTM solutions. They can't all be flukes.

Since the original MTM debacle, we also had the TD1 debacle and guess what? Piggyback options are looking much better. Take it off before going to the dealer!

With that said, it makes no sense that any piggyback would work well on our car. A piggyback generally alters the input parameters to the engine. The thing is, for the most part, our engine is massively tunable because our SC is dumping boost through a bypass valve which is electronically controlled only by the ECU. Only a true ECU flash should be able to prevent the loss of boost by keeping that valve shut through the entire band.

[Akrion]

+1, yep! Besides street racing is illegal

In Russia like in "Mexico" everything is legal if you can afford it :)

[MrFunk]

I have nothing against MTM or REVO - I really could not care if one is faster than the other... but all I see are two B8's neck and neck. I can't even tell if they are S4's (just saying). I'm sorry but there is just so much crap on youtube with people claiming this and that and the other that without undisputable fact - this is just another vid claiming something. The middle car - whatever tune it has (if any) is keeping neck and neck with the other B8 until it just seems to drop off. Maybe if there were several clear pulls on a closed course we could make some sense of it all - but it's just one dark, unclear vid... you need more than that to make any real claims.

[Vi112]

I have nothing against MTM or REVO - I really could not care if one is faster than the other... but all I see are two B8's neck and neck. I can't even tell if they are S4's (just saying). I'm sorry but there is just so much crap on youtube with people claiming this and that and the other that without undisputable fact - this is just another vid claiming something. The middle car - whatever tune it has (if any) is keeping neck and neck with the other B8 until it just seems to drop off. Maybe if there were several clear pulls on a closed course we could make some sense of it all - but it's just one dark, unclear vid... you need more than that to make any real claims.

This is not just "youtube crap" - it was a video recording of one run, however there were several of it if I understood right. Revo car was always slightly slower. If speaking 1/4 runs, best run for this MTM B8 was 12.7 according to the owner. Unfortunately, there are nearly no drag strips in Russia, so it is nearly impossible to measure correctly. But 1/4 is not that important, actually. What matters here is I'd say 60-130+ runs :)

So currently the only idea is Revo car could be in a "stock" mode, need to check.

BTW, there are much more MTM and ABT cars in Russia than Revo or APR ones. There were a number of runs with RS5, for example. Usually MTM car loses 2-3 car lengths to RS5 to 130 if starts from 30. Revo cars were about the same, maybe slightly faster. But too few runs to judge and this series was the first one to compare two tunes side-by-side. Everybody were sure Revo car is much faster, but that was just not the case.

These are another runs of that MTM car:
http://www.kievka-club.ru/topic/840-...di-s4-diotrix/

[phillips2024]

:popcorn:

[Vi112]

I have just got a reply about Revo car possibly being in "stock" mode.

They said this Revo car was 100% ok flash-wise. Actually this car is owned and driven by a Russian Revo dealer :(

So, either the car itself has some problems or MTM tune is highly undervalued.

[PaperishPlastic]

I have just got a reply about Revo car possibly being in "stock" mode.

They said this Revo car was 100% ok flash-wise. Actually this car is owned and driven by a Russian Revo dealer :(

So, either the car itself has some problems or MTM tune is highly undervalued.

I used to have a Revo tune in my S4, even if the MTM chip is undervalued and isnt total crap like everyone says, it still shouldn't be faster than the Revo. The Revo is a very aggressive chip and shouldnt be slower than any Piggybacks system.

[DioTrix]

This is my red car if you have some question , ask me!

p.s. in my car MTM piggy , rs5 brembo brakes on front , alu kreuz and H&R stabilizators 93ron , in black car only Revo stage 1 chip 93 ron

[PaperishPlastic]

Have you dynoed your car?

[PaperishPlastic]

Also have you ever raced an m3?

[Jones2012s4]

That video should be erased and never seen again for being so terrible and insinuating rediculous forum threads such as this. I have seen high quality Russian street racing vids with stats and results stated. This is not worthy of any more discussion.

[Vi112]

That video should be erased and never seen again for being so terrible and insinuating rediculous forum threads such as this. I have seen high quality Russian street racing vids with stats and results stated. This is not worthy of any more discussion.

As you like. The idea of those runs was to show how Revo tune is superior to MTM. They were initiated by a Revo dealer. For some reason he failed.

There were several runs during two days. There were no intention initially to shoot a video as everybody were sure in the result.

[PaperishPlastic]

As you like. The idea of those runs was to show how Revo tune is superior to MTM. They were initiated by a Revo dealer. For some reason he failed.

There were several runs during two days. There were no intention initially to shoot a video as everybody were sure in the result.

Didn't you get some kind of piggyback system? Do you still have it?

[Wah]

That is one shitty ass vid!

[igo300]

I have an MTM Cantronic and I've done a fair bit of testing on it.
Stock 1/4 mile runs were 13.1. with the Cantronic 13.0
I was pretty p'd off.

I tested the boost and found it was increased from 10lb stock to 13lbs with the MTM.
Further testing
Stock timing was almost a strainht diagonal line to 24 degrees. No timing pull on 98RON fuel (your 93MON)
With Cantronic the timing pull was up to 10 degrees.
So what was gained in extra boost was lost in timing pull.
Bypass valve commenced opening at 2500rpm

I then tested with 100RON (Your 95MON)
No timing pull and the line went straight back up to 24 degrees.
Bypass valve stayed closed completely till 5500
1/4 mile times down from 13.1 to 12.6

I have done this for my own benefit to ensure I got what I paid for. I guess I did provided I load it up with the appropriate fuel.

[Vi112]

Didn't you get some kind of piggyback system? Do you still have it?

Yes, I have TMC piggyback - it is cheap and is a good choice until there is something real available for B8.5 in Russia. I hope for GIAC Stage II.

With TMC it definitely pulls harder than stock - I measured 12.84 with 112 trap speed compared to 13.22 with 106 trap speed when stock. Measurements are not at certified track with certified equipment, so cannot compare with others, but difference is obviously there.

However you need to feed it with a good gas, otherwise timings are far from optimal.

Anyway, I will switch to GIAC Stage II or APR Stage II any time they are available here.

But these side-by-side pulls in Moscow makes me thinking of if there is really THAT big difference between piggybacks and real tunes (at least, Stage I).

[helix139]

This is my red car if you have some question , ask me!

p.s. in my car MTM piggy , rs5 brembo brakes on front , alu kreuz and H&R stabilizators 93ron , in black car only Revo stage 1 chip 93 ron

Wait so the Revo car was only using 93 RON? that isn't the same as 93 over here and kind of makes this a completely invalid comparison for US customers who have access to at least 91 octane. No wonder it is misleading. You'd need 95 RON to even have the equivalent of 91 over here in the states. A Revo 93 RON tune (about 89 R+M/2, give or take a point) would (or rather should) not be running near the timing of a US Revo 91 or 93 tune.

So as I said...crap gas. I'm surprised Revo even has a 93 RON tune.

[DioTrix]

Have you dynoed your car?

[DioTrix]

in Russia 98 octane = 93 Usa Ron

[Vi112]

Wait so the Revo car was only using 93 RON?

He meant 93 octane US (98 in Russia).

[phillips2024]

um.... wtf

[13S4]

Looks like a Cummins Turbo Diesel

[MrFunk]

LOL - wow. I have never seen a B8 dyno graph like that... hehehe, yeah - where's my popcorn - this is gonna be a good show! Hey Bateman - you got your feet up?!?

[jdgamble]

That torque is in Newton-Meters... It's ~393 foot pounds. Still pretty high, but then DIN correction is always higher.

[phillips2024]

That torque is in Newton-Meters... It's ~393 foot pounds. Still pretty high, but then DIN correction is always higher.

can you explain whats happening at 5252? haha

[jdgamble]

can you explain whats happening at 5252? haha

If it was in foot pounds, it would = hp there. It looks like about 520 at 5250... Which is 383 foot pounds. That's right where the hp is. Need correct units.

[PaperishPlastic]

can you explain whats happening at 5252? haha

A dyno graph with Ft lbs of torque and Horspower intercept because it is 1 graph showing 2 different things. when you show a graph in NM the torque isnt going to intercept the horsepower because it shows a higher quantity. The graph looks ok to me.