New camshaft seal leaking??

**bailor** · 10-24-2012 03:59 PM

So I noticed there are drips in my driveway still, even after I replaced my camshaft seal. Hhhhhhhhhhhhhh.. Could it be that the valve cover gasket is leaking instead? The valve cover gasket was replaced about 6 months ago by an Indy mechanic.

**bailor** · 10-24-2012 04:03 PM

I should mention that you could see an oil trail from the camshaft seal, running down and dripping onto the deprive way. That's why I changed that seal. After noticing the drips in my driveway in the exact same spot, I traced it back to the camshaft seal. I'm hoping it could be the valve cover gasket leaking down to the camshaft seal, making it appear to be that seal. Any thoughts?

**travrach** · 10-24-2012 04:05 PM

From the front? Pull the cover, clean it and run with top cover off and take a look. Many times the valve cover gasket can look like a cam seal leak.

**Wet0willy01** · 10-24-2012 04:06 PM

that was my new seal installed....

**MmmBoost** · 10-24-2012 04:07 PM

Cam seals are normally pretty easy to install, but there are a few things that can go wrong. You can damage the sealing surfaces removing an old seal. You can damage the inner/outer edge of the seal installing it. You can install it crooked in the bore. . Depending on how long the old seals were there, they could have worn a small groove in the cam.......so I always feel for this and install my seals in a slightly difference spot on the cam to ensure the tolerances are up to original factory spec. And some people of the "old-school" recommend oiling the shaft you are sealing against......but the manual is VERY explicit about installing the seal dry.

The Valve cover is a pretty easy install, however, if the variable-valve-tensioner gasket was also installed at the same time....this could be a possible site for leaks as it is a total pain in the ass to install without the right tools. Also the valve cover gasket itself should get a couple of small dabs of sealant on each "corner" where they meat the cam bearing journal caps.

Can you tell where the leak is originating from? <edit> i saw your picture.

**bailor** · 10-24-2012 04:21 PM

Ugg.. Installing the seal dry would have been good to know. I'll do the valve cover gasket first. Then check after a day or two. Then if it still leaks ill redo the cam seal. Someone told me that if this valve

is bad it can cause enough pressure to blow oil past seals. Does anyone know how to check to see if its working properly?

**Charles.waite** · 10-24-2012 04:24 PM

They probably meant the PCV valve. Thats the SJP valve which is part of the Vacuum system. If that were bad your car would barely run.

I agree though, a faulty PCV can lead to too much crankcase pressure which would cause oil to push past the seals. I would venture to guess you've got the OEM pcv. In which case I'd recommend the 034 silicon PCV replacement.

**vhstejskal** · 10-24-2012 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by MmmBoost

but the manual is VERY explicit about installing the seal dry.

<edit> i saw your picture.

^This... Most of the new seals are the PTFE seals and are a PIA to install (all the reasons Chris mentions)
Read this for the differences in seals and alternate options.

**bailor** · 10-24-2012 07:12 PM

Hypothetically speaking.. I don't think I did any damage to the sealing surface, but if and when I get to do the camshaft seal again, if I see any damage, how would that be repaired?

**bailor** · 10-25-2012 11:44 AM

That bad eh?

**travrach** · 10-25-2012 11:52 AM

No problem, it's fixable-Speedi sleeve.
from Napa, part # for 1.8t is NOS 99128 - http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Re...Dp%3d3%26N%3d0

**MmmBoost** · 10-25-2012 11:58 AM

By damage I mean maybe a burr on the head from trying to pry the old seal out. Or a scratch on the cam.

It really depends on how the seal was removed. This is just a worst-case scenario. Get a new seal and try again. They're only like $4. I wouldn't suspect the PCV system causing the leak......as it's usually the valve cover gasket that begins to leak first.

Remove the old seal....look/feel very carefully for any nicks or burrs and go from there.

**vhstejskal** · 10-25-2012 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by bailor

That bad eh?

Any small amount of build up could be cleaned with fine grit sandpaper. Else if its too bad you'd need to replace the part. Else you will have a greater likelihood of leaks in the future.

**bailor** · 10-25-2012 12:03 PM

Crazy. This is good to know. I don't think there is any damage but if there is, now I'll know where to start.

**MmmBoost** · 10-25-2012 12:17 PM

The seal was most likely just installed incorrectly. It's easy to screw up.

You don't even need the Speedi-Sleeve......just installed the seal at a different depth than it was before. It will change where the seal rides on the shaft.

**walky_talky20** · 10-25-2012 04:08 PM

In the case were a replacement PTFE seal had leaked, I substituted the older style conventional cam seal instead. Easier to install, less sensitive, and worked great. The service life is probably somewhat less, but still good for 100k+ miles.

This guy:
http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/068_103_085_E/ES278261/

Instead of this guy:
http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/038103085/ES261235/

**travrach** · 10-26-2012 05:16 AM

If the cam has any groove/gouge in it from the removal process you will need a speedi sleeve, the seal will not flex into a groove/gouge or nick. For a small nick you maybe able to move the seal to get around it, but if the cam is gouged as in a straight line from cam sprocket to head in anyway it will still leak, its a little pathway for oil to flow out of. As was mentioned if the seal was installed wrong, or it was damaged on install just replace.

**bailor** · 01-28-2013 10:21 AM

I know I'm resurrecting this thread, but I'm finally getting around to fixing this. The car has been sitting a while because the drips turned into puddles, then I just stopped driving it.

Just how bad does a shaft have to be in order to use the Speedi-Sleeve? There are some faint marks in various places around my camshaft, but none of them are deep enough to be felt with my finger. I can see them, but when I run my finger over them I can't feel them at all.

A Speedi-Sleeve is about $45. Would you guys think it's worth the peace of mind to use one in my case?

One thing I did find that I'm afraid of is this. I noticed it when I was installing the previous seal. I didn't think it would be a big deal, but now I'm wondering. It looks like something knocked into the head right where the cam seal goes it, because the nick is leading into the seat hole, and not out of the seat hole as it would be if I had damaged it while removing the seal. There are two small pieces of metal that would scrape the seal as I press it in. I am thinking that this was my problem. Would it be okay to file the protrusions down so they don't damage the seal as I insert it?

You can see one mark at about 2:30, and the other at about 6:00

Sorry for all the questions, I've never really worked on replacing seals. Thanks.

**alimo20** · 01-30-2013 12:55 PM

im sorry to hear that your drips went from drips to puddles.

i still have my camshaft seal drip from the post referenced above and i know i have to fix it but its been almost a year. how much longer before my timing belt deteriorates and breaks??

**walky_talky20** · 01-30-2013 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by bailor

I know I'm resurrecting this thread, but I'm finally getting around to fixing this. The car has been sitting a while because the drips turned into puddles, then I just stopped driving it.

Just how bad does a shaft have to be in order to use the Speedi-Sleeve? There are some faint marks in various places around my camshaft, but none of them are deep enough to be felt with my finger. I can see them, but when I run my finger over them I can't feel them at all.

A Speedi-Sleeve is about $45. Would you guys think it's worth the peace of mind to use one in my case?

One thing I did find that I'm afraid of is this. I noticed it when I was installing the previous seal. I didn't think it would be a big deal, but now I'm wondering. It looks like something knocked into the head right where the cam seal goes it, because the nick is leading into the seat hole, and not out of the seat hole as it would be if I had damaged it while removing the seal. There are two small pieces of metal that would scrape the seal as I press it in. I am thinking that this was my problem. Would it be okay to file the protrusions down so they don't damage the seal as I insert it?

Sorry for all the questions, I've never really worked on replacing seals. Thanks.

I wouldn't bother with a sleeve. I think you're right, the seal just got tore up on it's way in. Those gouges aren't really where it seals, but it will cause it to leak by damaging the seal upon install. Smooth those guys out and give it another go. I'd really suggest using a non-ptfe seal here. They are much more forgiving that the PTFE stuff (dealing with less than perfect surfaces, etc).

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