S-Tronic gearbox question

**Monsoon** · 09-27-2012 12:19 PM

Anybody know if the S-Tronic dual-clutch box is one of those "adaptive" automatics similar to what Mercedes uses, or does it respond the same way all the time when in auto mode? Not referring to the various Drive Select settings but just the behaviour of the standard box if you leave everything alone or you don't have the Drive Select option. Also, when you pull the shift lever down again into Sport mode does that basically just speed up shift times and hold each gear longer? I am not a fan of the adaptive/intelligent automatics, I'd rather have it behave predictably all the time. Thanks for any info.

**MailmanOdd** · 09-27-2012 12:22 PM

It is adaptive.

**zamm3k** · 09-27-2012 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Monsoon

Anybody know if the S-Tronic dual-clutch box is one of those "adaptive" automatics similar to what Mercedes uses, or does it respond the same way all the time when in auto mode? Not referring to the various Drive Select settings but just the behaviour of the standard box if you leave everything alone or you don't have the Drive Select option. Also, when you pull the shift lever down again into Sport mode does that basically just speed up shift times and hold each gear longer? I am not a fan of the adaptive/intelligent automatics, I'd rather have it behave predictably all the time. Thanks for any info.

I don't think you'll have issues with it's "adaptiveness". D is for cruising around and S is for spirited driving. It behaves really well at both gears. And then manual is for full control ( except for the god damn auto-shift at redline /end rant)

**Monsoon** · 09-27-2012 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by zamm3k

I don't think you'll have issues with it's "adaptiveness". D is for cruising around and S is for spirited driving. It behaves really well at both gears. And then manual is for full control ( except for the god damn auto-shift at redline /end rant)

Thanks, good to know. Hey, maybe a dumb question but why does everyone complain about shifting at redline in manual mode? Seems like that's where you'd want it to shift since the torque and hp curves both fall off at 5500 rpm. What's the issues with that?

**NWS4Guy** · 09-27-2012 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Monsoon

Thanks, good to know. Hey, maybe a dumb question but why does everyone complain about shifting at redline in manual mode? Seems like that's where you'd want it to shift since the torque and hp curves both fall off at 5500 rpm. What's the issues with that?

In Manual mode, some will NOT shift at redline, they will short shift. Also, some people (for some reason) want them to bang off the rev limiter, and not shift it for them, since they think manual mode means it shouldn't protect itself if they want to overrev the engine

**oneiztoomany** · 09-27-2012 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by NWS4Guy

In Manual mode, some will NOT shift at redline, they will short shift.

is this a function as design thing or a flaw?

**korben** · 09-27-2012 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by NWS4Guy

In Manual mode, some will NOT shift at redline, they will short shift. Also, some people (for some reason) want them to bang off the rev limiter, and not shift it for them, since they think manual mode means it shouldn't protect itself if they want to overrev the engine

It's annoying that it shifts for you because sometimes you upshift right before, or after, it automatically does and it shifts up 2 gears. Has nothing to do with over revving, that's exactly what a rev limiter is for. The nannies will prevent a downshift in the DSG if it will cause an over rev.

**zamm3k** · 09-27-2012 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by NWS4Guy

In Manual mode, some will NOT shift at redline, they will short shift. Also, some people (for some reason) want them to bang off the rev limiter, and not shift it for them, since they think manual mode means it shouldn't protect itself if they want to overrev the engine

It's hard to over rev an ,essentially, automatic transmission. But a soft rev can be put in place as to not over rev your engine, in order to make the car more predictable and controllable. I'm sure you've had the occasional double upshift occur to you. As much as you can get used to it, it's still annoying. BMW's 3 series automatic tranny has this if you purchase it with the sport transmission option.

In the end, it has nothing to do with bouncing off the rev limiter or drifting my car. Its about keeping control of my car as much as possible without electronics interfering.

**Monsoon** · 09-27-2012 02:21 PM

So, even if it's in manual mode it will still upshift for you if it senses overrev? To me that's not really manual mode but it kinda makes sense. In my current car in manual mode it will just bounce off the limiter all day until you finally shift it yourself. Not really sure which is better and I mainly drive in auto/sport mode anyway which is probably what I will do with the S4.

**MailmanOdd** · 09-27-2012 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Monsoon

So, even if it's in manual mode it will still upshift for you if it senses overrev? To me that's not really manual mode but it kinda makes sense. In my current car in manual mode it will just bounce off the limiter all day until you finally shift it yourself. Not really sure which is better and I mainly drive in auto/sport mode anyway which is probably what I will do with the S4.

Correct, it will upshift for you. It's really not quite full manual mode.

**NWS4Guy** · 09-27-2012 03:54 PM

It's like this. The ECU and TCU can shift for you, better than you can. If you have it in M mode and shift yourself, that means you just shortshifted and left RPM's and power on the table, if it shifts for you, then you shift and end up in a higher than anticipated gear it means you were too slow on the shift.

If you want to drive fast and well around a track, focus on your braking, your lines, and you entry and exit. Let the DSG shift for you on upshifts, and only override on downshifts to get you into the lower gear and power band, then you can flip it back into "S" (or "D" if you have in in Dynamic with ADS or Sport Diff) to let it take over for the upshifts again. If you want total control, you need a true manual, you make a sacrifice with a DSG - some control for blistering rev matched gear changes.

**sakill3r** · 09-27-2012 04:32 PM

Wish our cars had the S button like the new RS5 has, which does not shift gears automatically at redline in manual mode with it turned on :)

**Gotchaa** · 09-28-2012 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by sakill3r

Wish our cars had the S button like the new RS5 has, which does not shift gears automatically at redline in manual mode with it turned on :)

I wonder if getting an ECU tune would change the behavior to work like the S button, no forced up shifts...

**korben** · 09-28-2012 05:48 AM

I'm sure it could be done, but the only way I'm reflashing the DSG is if it comes with a warranty, don't need a 12k headache just to remove an annoyance.

**dparm** · 09-28-2012 07:00 AM

There has been at least one company that said they can re-flash the TCM, but fed us some long story about how it's too complicated for their dealership network to get the stuff to do it...they led us on for over a year.

**zamm3k** · 09-28-2012 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by NWS4Guy

It's like this. The ECU and TCU can shift for you, better than you can. If you have it in M mode and shift yourself, that means you just shortshifted and left RPM's and power on the table, if it shifts for you, then you shift and end up in a higher than anticipated gear it means you were too slow on the shift.

If you want to drive fast and well around a track, focus on your braking, your lines, and you entry and exit. Let the DSG shift for you on upshifts, and only override on downshifts to get you into the lower gear and power band, then you can flip it back into "S" (or "D" if you have in in Dynamic with ADS or Sport Diff) to let it take over for the upshifts again. If you want total control, you need a true manual, you make a sacrifice with a DSG - some control for blistering rev matched gear changes.

I'm just going to give a short example of what I'm trying to say. Imagine you track the car, and during a turn A or turn B, you need your whole rev band to go through the turn. Now imagine in the middle of one of those turns you hit the rev limiter and ur tranny shifts for you, leaving you at a lower gear and loss of torque/power through a curve.

If anything, the S Tronic should have less compromises than the manual (its supposed to be the best of both worlds). Regardless, this wasn't a deal breaker for me. I just feel like it doesn't have to be a necessary compromise. I'm sure if Audi wanted to make it bounce of the rev limiter they could do so safely. Most cars that do that have an override where if you are beating the crap out of the engine it'll cut fuel or automatically shift after so many bounces of the rev limiter.

With all that said. I still love my S Tronic.

**Monsoon** · 09-28-2012 09:40 AM

Thanks for the feedback. I have no intention of tracking the car and it sounds like their shift programming and dual-clutch speed will work quite well for semi-agressive street driving. Seems like most folks are pretty happy with their S-Tronic so I am still psyched about getting it. Car is scheduled for dealer delivery end of October. This Halloween could be really fun.

**dparm** · 09-28-2012 09:40 AM

^ Exactly. I just had an RS5 out on the track last weekend and it was not short shifting. Very useful because I don't want the car to shift for me in the middle of a turn.

**zamm3k** · 09-28-2012 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Monsoon

Thanks for the feedback. I have no intention of tracking the car and it sounds like their shift programming and dual-clutch speed will work quite well for semi-agressive street driving. Seems like most folks are pretty happy with their S-Tronic so I am still psyched about getting it. Car is scheduled for dealer delivery end of October. This Halloween could be really fun.

Oh don't get me wrong. You SHOULD BE psyched about getting S Tronic. Lovely transmission, and really worth it in all honesty. The pros far outweigh the cons.

**korben** · 09-28-2012 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by zamm3k

Oh don't get me wrong. You SHOULD BE psyched about getting S Tronic. Lovely transmission, and really worth it in all honesty. The pros far outweigh the cons.

Definitely agree. For as much as people, myself included, complain about certain aspects of it, it really is a great trans.