B8 V's B8.5

[iant]

Forget about the aesthetics (and even the acoustics) is the B8.5 better dynamically than the B8 in any way.... Discuss

[Stubek]

same chassis and suspension and engine, so I bet the handling and overall feel is pretty close.

[clochner]

B8.5 gets the new crown center differential that is also in the RS5.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...4_first_drive/

[steve0827]

B8.5 gets the new crown center differential that is also in the RS5.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...4_first_drive/

I believe that's only in the DSG models

[iant]

Forget about the aesthetics (and even the acoustics) is the B8.5 better dynamically than the B8 in any way.... Discuss

same chassis and suspension and engine, so I bet the handling and overall feel is pretty close.

Yeah that's what I thoght if not exactly the same.... What's the diff????

B8.5 gets the new crown center differential that is also in the RS5.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...4_first_drive/

So it is true about the crown center differential then? Dynamically what does it do better I wonder.... really?

[rs4dreams]

Also electromechanical steering replaced hydraulic.

[juntsky]

it's got a better steering wheel :D at least the S4 does

[moose_head]

So it is true about the crown center differential then? Dynamically what does it do better I wonder.... really?

From wikipedia (and I assume pasted from Audi's literature)

The key change is the replacement of the Torsen Type "C" centre differential with an Audi-developed "Crown Gear" differential. Whilst this is superficially the same as a normal Open differential, adapted for a centre application, it has some key differences:





Audi quattro Crown Gear centre differential 1.The central carrier and associated spider gears interface directly to two crown wheels connected to the front and rear drive shafts
2.The two crown wheels interface to the spider gears at different diameters, and so produce different torque when turned by the spider gears. This is engineered to produce a 40:60 static torque split front and rear.
3.Each crown wheel interfaces to the respective output shaft directly, whilst the spider carrier interfaces to each output shaft using a clutch pack which gives the unit the ability to control torque distribution over and above the static torque distribution.

If one axle loses grip, different rotational speeds arise inside the differential which result in an increase in axial forces that force the clutch plates to close. Once closed, the output shaft is locked resulting in the diversion of the majority of the torque to the axle achieving better traction. In the Crown Gear differential up to 85% of torque can flow to the rear, and up to 70% of torque can be diverted to the front axle.

The features of the Crown Gear differential provide the following benefits over the Torsen Type "C"
1.The ability to set up a more stable torque distribution, with full locking whereas the Torsen can only provide a torque distribution up to the Torque Bias Ratio; i.e., the Crown Gear differential can lock fully, regardless of bias ratio. Unlike the Torsen, the Crown Gear differential doesn't operate like a limited slip differential and can operate, fully locked, with no traction on one output shaft.
2.Easier integration into control electronics allowing four-wheel electronic torque vectoring with or without the active rear sport differential
3.Considerable reduction in size and weight (at 4.8 kg, some 2 kg lighter than the Torsen Type C)

The net result of this advance in quattro is the ability of the vehicle electronics to fully manage the vehicle dynamics in all traction situations, whether in cornering, acceleration or braking or in any combination of these.

I don't understand what most of this means except it's a bit lighter and works better with the electronics.

[mattchat]

MMI is loads better, and you finally get BT Audio....oh, theres a setting for "engine sound" which actually isn't that bad, yes its a speaker next to the firewall but its better than through the internal speakers if you ask me. You get aluminum pedals now too.

Good video review hear:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIDo2...e=results_main

[mcimiluca]

i actually like the full electronic steering better. I had a b8 and now a b8.5...the b8.5 seems like much more solid car. Not really sure what it is... but its def worth it.

[Leor604]

From wikipedia (and I assume pasted from Audi's literature)


I don't understand what most of this means except it's a bit lighter and works better with the electronics.

If i understand correctly, a Torsen differential requires some small amount of traction at one end (say front) in order to transfer torque to the other end (say rear). In this example, if you had your front wheels in the air (zero traction) none of the torque would go to the rear and you go nowhere. The crown gear will lock and transfer torque even with zero traction at one axle.

Is this an advantage? Technically, yes but in the real world, probably not. To get a Torsen equipped vehicle truly stuck you would have to have one axle with bald R-comps on wet ice covered with goose shit AND you would have to disable the electronic traction controls (which *create* traction at the slipping end by detecting the wheelspin and applying the brakes, thus transferring torque to the wheels with grip). By simply leaving the electronic nannies on, the Torsen will get you moving regardless of whether or not you have traction at both ends.

The crown gear center diff can divert torque 85% rear and 70% front. I believe the Torsen Type 3 we have can go up to 80% rear and 80% front. Don't know what the default split is on the crown gear, but we all know the torsen is 40F/60R.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong on any of the above. Based on the above, can someone explain the real world advantages of the crown gear cemter diff.

[Wusty]

I seriously find something new everyday that's more refined in the B8.5 than the B8. Today I noticed the shifting on in the paddle mode is WAY faster than my B8 was. Night and day faster, like the first time you shift it you're like "this shifts insanely fast!". Whether they really did make changes or not, it absolutely feels faster. The ride feels smoother, the exhaust, whether it's piped in or not sounds way better, the overall feel is just completely refreshed. The electromechanical steering was the very first thing that I noticed when I drove it, I instantly fell in love with it. Amazing. I can't preach enough about how the B8 & B8.5 are totally different. It's an upgrade, for sure. I don't regret 1 second of the upgrade. Absolutely worth it.

[JOS4AUDI]

Everyone with a 2013 is going to say its better lol its the same damn car just ugly as hell

[B8 S FOR]

^Like JOS4 said....I'll wait for the B9!!

[clochner]

I can't preach enough about how the B8 & B8.5 are totally different.

oh come now. that's just ridiculous.

[bkkchris]

In my opinion the B8.5 is a pretty nice upgrade/refresh. Nothing I would loose thousands of dollars over, but maybe 2k as I probably would be less inclined to replace the exhaust and you get the flat bottom wheel which is a $1500 (at least) upgrade on the B8 anyways... which while sounding trivial, actually, amazingly, is a real nice upgrade. I can see what all the B8 owners who preach about their expensive flat bottom wheel replacement are talking about now.

The interior has minor details that are a bit nicer and yes the MMI is finally in line with some of the other luxury brands when it comes to the tech, like bluetooth audio streaming and google maps (which for me is a cool feature but nothing I would ever pay monthly for).

I was actually amazed at how much more aggressive the car felt in 'dynamic' mode than my 2012 in 'dynamic.' Holds gears a slight bit longer and just feels a bit stronger.

The exhaust sounds better, and I know a big part of that is the kinda of cheesy speaker, but it actually works for me, to the point where I probably would feel less inclined to actually replace the exhaust.

Looks, I am still on the fence on that department. Sometimes I see one and think it looks great, better, more modern, sometimes I think it looks kind of weak.

[zamm3k]

i used to hate the b8.5 look. but after staring at it for a while there's no way I can go back to preferring the b8 to the b8.5. it simply looks, better, more modern.

[s4boy]

josh, have you seen a b8.5 in person? it looks sweet, i didnt like it until i saw it in person, now i like it more than the b8 itself. getting mine soon!

[JOS4AUDI]

I dont know who the hell Josh is, but ive seen the facelift in person MANY times. Its ugly there is no changing my mind. I bought my car 3 months ago, and had a chance to wait for the 2013. Obviously i didn't. Its like the B6/B7 some prefer one or the other in the end its the SAME CAR!!!!!! I just drove the new S6 and S7 yesterday. I got to stare at the S4 with my wife, and we both were appalled.

[Mops@Nemesis]

Calm down, Josh!!! Latest and greatest is ALWAYS best. <3

[korben]

Appalled? Seriously? People may have their own preferences but you lose a little credibility when you call one or the other appalling.

[JOS4AUDI]

Appalled? Seriously? People may have their own preferences but you lose a little credibility when you call one or the other appalling.

oh no im losing credibility with you Korben? What can i do to make it up to a new member like yourself??? Last thing i want to do is offend anyone with MY opinion. I mean i havent been around Audi for years, and owned multiple cars my credibility sucks!!!!

[JOS4AUDI]

Calm down, Josh!!! Latest and greatest is ALWAYS best. <3

Sorry Mops your right I forgot newer always is better.

With love and yours truly JOSH

[clochner]

^^ What were your impressions on the S6/S7?

[13S4]

You said it's ugly as hell? You're hilarious... It looks like a smaller S6... I've never liked the look of Audi's until I saw the B8 S4 & S5 at a car show back in 2009. Prior to that I would have never bought one. I was set on a B8, and finally could afford one about 7 months ago. Once I saw the facelift concept I knew I had to wait.. To each his own..

[MrFunk]

I drove a 13 last weekend. 6mt. Felt exactly the same performance wise as my 12 when stock. I don't know what the heck people are talking abou it being any different.. or more solid feeling... That it rubbish. Lol. Thesteering felt lighter and did not tighten up as much in dynamic mode and the clutch felt not as heavy. But those differences in clutch feel were so miniscule that after 10 minutes it was forgotten. Performance wise the cars are the same... Wait until there is actually a new S4 if you want to do a vs or comparo...

I do admit the new steering wheel is super nice. I'm still not sure Im won on the new front end being an improvement... I do like the rear....

[Elitex]

Appalled? Lol. I had a b8 A4 and now 13 S4, facelift is so much better IMO.

[Mops@Nemesis]

Shit just got real...

JOSH, do not send me your love...your are married...its not fair to me

[JOS4AUDI]

^^ What were your impressions on the S6/S7?

WOW!!!! I dont think words can explain it. S6 was my favorite Interior was perfect those seats with the diamond stitching ,carbon fiber trim, interior was silver ext EBC. The engine note was incredible the car just roars!!! it picks up so fast almost kinda scary. Handling amazing and brakes same just a perfect all around car if you ask me.

[JOS4AUDI]

Shit just got real...

JOSH, do not send me your love...your are married...its not fair to me

hahahhahahahahhahahahhaI can leave my wife i swear!!! I promise im not as mean as all these new Audi owners that never considered an audi before the cool LED'S say i am. Im just mad my S4 is the old model.

hahhahahhaha that cat is awesome!!!!!!

[phanker]

Has to do with the new steering wheel i think. It's nice and fat, sporty looking. Feels heavier too in dynamic mode with speed making car feel very solid.
I just find it way too light at parking speed though. Makes life easier but it could have been heavier.

i actually like the full electronic steering better. I had a b8 and now a b8.5...the b8.5 seems like much more solid car. Not really sure what it is... but its def worth it.

[Patrick Bateman]

Funk... I do not have the steering package (forgot what its called), on my 13... so yes, the wheel would not feel as tight, and i have the electric steering...which is certainly not astight as yours was. The interior is different enough to make me want to buy the 13 over the standard b8. The exterior styling to me is far more modern and cleaner than the b8. I actually like the combination of the lights being narrow at the center and getting wider at the edges/fenders,as it sprawls the front end making it appear wider than the prev generation. The addition of additional chrome bars in lieu of the liscense plate filler plate is a welcome addition and more sophisticated looking to me. The engine noise can be tuned to 4 settings inside the cabin. I have SS Texture trim, paired with piano black guage surround,and shift surround.... dont know if thats found on prev models. Oh, almost forgot....The steering wheel. Yes, it is that good, and no guys, ...sorry, it does not effect your driving or get in the way what so ever.
oh...The LED's in the headlights are cleaner looking to me over prev gen b8.
PB.

[korben]

oh no im losing credibility with you Korben? What can i do to make it up to a new member like yourself??? Last thing i want to do is offend anyone with MY opinion. I mean i havent been around Audi for years, and owned multiple cars my credibility sucks!!!!

Didn't realize you've owned multiple cars, that changes everything, my apologies.

[clochner]

WOW!!!! I dont think words can explain it. S6 was my favorite Interior was perfect those seats with the diamond stitching ,carbon fiber trim, interior was silver ext EBC. The engine note was incredible the car just roars!!! it picks up so fast almost kinda scary. Handling amazing and brakes same just a perfect all around car if you ask me.

That's awesome, man. I may just pay my dealer a visit and see if they have any of those lying around I think the hope around here is that the B9 gets some 4.0TT love. I'd jump ship immediately if that were the case.

[ansky]

wow, i wonder why i thought for a second that this thread would be anything other than opinion and hyperbole

what a stupid can of worms to be opened.
having said that, JOS4AUDI may be the most quotable madman in a while.

[Leor604]

Back on track: original question was any DYNAMIC differences between B8 and B8.5?

So far 35 posts and it degenerates into a beauty contest. Steering wheel is NOT a dynamic difference. Front end design is NOT a dynamic difference. MMI and chrome trim on window switches is NOT a dynamic difference. None of these things are worth a pinch of shit in a performance sedan that is meant to be driven. Stock B8 vs stock B8.5 on a road course = ZERO difference.

The only appreciable mechanical difference is the crown gear center diff and I have yet to get an explanation of any real world advantage.

So, as someone who uses his performance vehicle as a performance vehicle and not as a penis extender, please explain the reasons a B8.5 is seemingly vastly superior to the B8.

[jedirocker]

Back on track: original question was any DYNAMIC differences between B8 and B8.5?

So far 35 posts and it degenerates into a beauty contest. Steering wheel is NOT a dynamic difference. Front end design is NOT a dynamic difference. MMI and chrome trim on window switches is NOT a dynamic difference.

...please explain the reasons a B8.5 is seemingly vastly superior to the B8.

The B8.5 is now offered in Estirol Blue Crystal. Blue cars go faster.

[drkay]

If i understand correctly, a Torsen differential requires some small amount of traction at one end (say front) in order to transfer torque to the other end (say rear). In this example, if you had your front wheels in the air (zero traction) none of the torque would go to the rear and you go nowhere. The crown gear will lock and transfer torque even with zero traction at one axle.

Is this an advantage? Technically, yes but in the real world, probably not. To get a Torsen equipped vehicle truly stuck you would have to have one axle with bald R-comps on wet ice covered with goose shit AND you would have to disable the electronic traction controls (which *create* traction at the slipping end by detecting the wheelspin and applying the brakes, thus transferring torque to the wheels with grip). By simply leaving the electronic nannies on, the Torsen will get you moving regardless of whether or not you have traction at both ends.

The crown gear center diff can divert torque 85% rear and 70% front. I believe the Torsen Type 3 we have can go up to 80% rear and 80% front. Don't know what the default split is on the crown gear, but we all know the torsen is 40F/60R.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong on any of the above. Based on the above, can someone explain the real world advantages of the crown gear cemter diff.

I think the main advantage of Crown Gear Differential is that it locks mechanically and instataneously under "zero traction" conditions, so the car will keep moving without a pause, whereas with Torsen the system must first detect a wheel spin before it intervenes with the brakes, and the car may briefly lose traction and stop moving. CGD could probably reduce pad wear when driving on snow/ice, but I don't think this would be really noticed.

[VeryBadman]

Only mechanical change I know is crown diff. in the DSG model which possibly makes the car faster around the track and the rest are cosmetic changes. It looks surely nice but I would rather wait for the B9.

[drkay]

Back on track: original question was any DYNAMIC differences between B8 and B8.5?

So far 35 posts and it degenerates into a beauty contest. Steering wheel is NOT a dynamic difference. Front end design is NOT a dynamic difference. MMI and chrome trim on window switches is NOT a dynamic difference. None of these things are worth a pinch of shit in a performance sedan that is meant to be driven. Stock B8 vs stock B8.5 on a road course = ZERO difference.

The only appreciable mechanical difference is the crown gear center diff and I have yet to get an explanation of any real world advantage.

So, as someone who uses his performance vehicle as a performance vehicle and not as a penis extender, please explain the reasons a B8.5 is seemingly vastly superior to the B8.

Some of the imrovements of the B8.5 models also include "memory" for the Audi Select settings (settings remain when the car is switched off), improved functionality of Side Assist (lowest speed reduced to 19mph from 35mph), improved Adaptive Cruise Control (the car can actually come to a full stop, might be a life saver in foggy conditions), but I won't call these as "vastly superior to the B8", but rather nice to have.