01E with 240mm CM flywheel

[catbed]

I am researching putting a 6 speed into my 01 Avant, and I read that I might need to grind the bell housing down at a certain spot to clear my CM FX400 240mm clutch/flywheel. Can anybody shed some light on this? Any pics of the area that needs to be ground down?

[walky_talky20]

01E + 1.8T + 240mm clutch will require a spacer according to the following thread. Also according to that thread, a B5 S4 spacer won't work, you need a B7 RS4 spacer or something. Just grinding the bell housing was not successful for this guy, anyway.

Read here:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post5179175

[M-Hood]

You do not need to use a spacer and you should not need to grind any of the bell housing, you can bolt the 01E right to the 1.8t block and it will work perfectly fine with the CM 240mm A4 1.8t clutch/flywheel kit as it is.

The clearance issue with the CM 240mm A4 1.8t clutch/flywheel kit is with the 01A 5 speed transmission on the 2002-2003 A4 1.8t. But that is very rare and only because the manufacture of the bell housing did not fill in a spot on the mold when they did the casting of that bell housing.

Walky - The height would only be an issue when trying to run the CM 240mm flywheel with a Luk pressure plate since it is much taller then the Sach pressure plate that CM uses for their A4 1.8t 240mm clutch kit. The 01E actually has more space inside the bell housing then the 01A. The CM 240mm A4 1.8t kit fits perfectly fine on the B6 A4 1.8t 6 speed and the bell housing on that transmission isn't any different then the 01E bell housing.


Here is a picture of the B6 01A 5 speed bell housing that is an issue when running the CM 240mm A4 1.8t kit.



This is what the B5 01A 5 speed bell housing looks like.

(excuse the other scraps on the bell housing, that is what happens when a PP cracks and the flat rings become saw blades).



The grinding needed on the B6 01A 5 speed that has the issue.

[walky_talky20]

But Mike, What of the problems in the thread that I linked? What of those?

[M-Hood]

But Mike, What of the problems in the thread that I linked? What of those?

Not sure since that is the only one I have ever seen or heard of having the problem.

[catbed]

01E + 1.8T + 240mm clutch will require a spacer according to the following thread. Also according to that thread, a B5 S4 spacer won't work, you need a B7 RS4 spacer or something. Just grinding the bell housing was not successful for this guy, anyway.

Read here:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post5179175

Hmmm, interesting read. This thread and one other thread I can't find are the only ones I've read that required grinding. So 2 cases out of many.

You do not need to use a spacer and you should not need to grind any of the bell housing, you can bolt the 01E right to the 1.8t block and it will work perfectly fine with the CM 240mm A4 1.8t clutch/flywheel kit as it is.

The clearance issue with the CM 240mm A4 1.8t clutch/flywheel kit is with the 01A 5 speed transmission on the 2002-2003 A4 1.8t. But that is very rare and only because the manufacture of the bell housing did not fill in a spot on the mold when they did the casting of that bell housing.

Walky - The height would only be an issue when trying to run the CM 240mm flywheel with a Luk pressure plate since it is much taller then the Sach pressure plate that CM uses for their A4 1.8t 240mm clutch kit. The 01E actually has more space inside the bell housing then the 01A. The CM 240mm A4 1.8t kit fits perfectly fine on the B6 A4 1.8t 6 speed and the bell housing on that transmission isn't any different then the 01E bell housing.

Thanks for the info, I guess I'll just go and try to bolt it up unless others post more info. Another question though, are the 01E axle flanges swappable with the 01A axles flanges from my DWR? I've read that you can swap the flanges right over, and others that say you can only swap the diff. Since I have a Tip A4 diff, I only need to worry about the trans flanges. Thanks again

[M-Hood]

If you run into a fitment issue with it please let me know. The best solution to a problem like that is to see about getting the flywheel machined down to give more clearance for the top of the pressure plate and then use a slightly taller throw-out bearing.

[geoffsta99]

I'm bringing this back. I'm putting together a 1.8T (AWM), 240mm FX400 w/LWFW, 01E.

With the B5 S4 bellhousing spacer installed, the slave bottoms out before disengaging the clutch. I'm gonna try it without the spacer, and see how it goes. I'll report what I find in the next couple days.

[M-Hood]

I'm bringing this back. I'm putting together a 1.8T (AWM), 240mm FX400 w/LWFW, 01E.

With the B5 S4 bellhousing spacer installed, the slave bottoms out before disengaging the clutch. I'm gonna try it without the spacer, and see how it goes. I'll report what I find in the next couple days.

The B5 S4 spacer shoudn't be used on a 1.8t. When used you need to use a longer slave rod or a taller throw-out bearing to make up that spacer thickness.

[aysix]

The B5 S4 spacer shoudn't be used on a 1.8t. When used you need to use a longer slave rod or a taller throw-out bearing to make up that spacer thickness.

I'd imagine there also would be issues with seating the motor/tranny mounts without the spacer?

[Nollywood]

I'd imagine there also would be issues with seating the motor/tranny mounts without the spacer?

Nope. There won't be any issues. The holes on the trans mounts are much bigger than the bolts that go through them. The S4 space is approx. 11,2 mm thick.

If you use the spacer with your stock slave cylinder push-rod, you'll pretty much run a gallon of hydraulic fluid through the system, trying to bleed it, and it still won't work. The clutch pedal will be against the floorboards, and the clutch still won't be anywhere near full disengagement.

I learnt that the hard way, many years ago when I first fitted an 01E from an S2 into a 1990 Ur quattro 20V.

[geoffsta99]

If you use the spacer with your stock slave cylinder push-rod, you'll pretty much run a gallon of hydraulic fluid through the system, trying to bleed it, and it still won't work. The clutch pedal will be against the floorboards, and the clutch still won't be anywhere near full disengagement.

My issue is a little different... My clutch pedal stops halfway down, and won't disengage clutch. Crack bleed screw, pedal goes to the floor, close screw, pedal comes up and takes more fluid, but pedal will not go past halfway with the screw closed. The slave is probably bottomed out before pushing far enough on the clutch fork.

I should have it separated tonight, we'll see how it goes.

[M-Hood]

My issue is a little different... My clutch pedal stops halfway down, and won't disengage clutch. Crack bleed screw, pedal goes to the floor, close screw, pedal comes up and takes more fluid, but pedal will not go past halfway with the screw closed. The slave is probably bottomed out before pushing far enough on the clutch fork.

I should have it separated tonight, we'll see how it goes.

Yes it is over extending because you changed the needed stack height of the clutch/flywheel when you spaced the transmission away from the block. You can make a longer slave rod but the correct way is to just take the spacer out. Problem with making the rod longer is now the fork is at a different angle and the further away you push it the higher chance there is for the slave rod to pop out of the fork, it will also effect the rate at which the PP fingers are pushed in which means the rod/slave will have to travel further to get the PP fingers to travel the same distance it would have if the spacer was not there.

[Nollywood]

Yes it is over extending because you changed the needed stack height of the clutch/flywheel when you spaced the transmission away from the block. You can make a longer slave rod but the correct way is to just take the spacer out. Problem with making the rod longer is now the fork is at a different angle and the further away you push it the higher chance there is for the slave rod to pop out of the fork, it will also effect the rate at which the PP fingers are pushed in which means the rod/slave will have to travel further to get the PP fingers to travel the same distance it would have if the spacer was not there.

100% correct.

[Scientist]

I'm following this with interest because I have to start shopping for a new clutch and was considering the 240mm clutch/plate/FW from ESC tuning. Now I see the attempts to put a 6-speed on an AWM 1.8T. I can understand that because it feels it needs an extra gear. At least in my car.

Would it be possible, when everything is set and done, to post a step-by-step guide of installing a 6-speed on an AWM 1.8T? Including parts and tools to be used?

I've seen some very elegant mods done to your cars. However, it is a bear to follow the "instructions" because steps can be lost after page 15 or 19. Instead, a simple one or two-pager (photos included) would be of immense help to those who came in late to the party.

[geoffsta99]

Yes it is over extending because you changed the needed stack height of the clutch/flywheel when you spaced the transmission away from the block. You can make a longer slave rod but the correct way is to just take the spacer out. Problem with making the rod longer is now the fork is at a different angle and the further away you push it the higher chance there is for the slave rod to pop out of the fork, it will also effect the rate at which the PP fingers are pushed in which means the rod/slave will have to travel further to get the PP fingers to travel the same distance it would have if the spacer was not there.

I thought about making a longer slave rod to try, but that's just a 'patch' for a deeper assembly problem. I'd rather take the spacer right out and do it right.

I bought a new engine hoist the other day, with a crank-type leveling attachment! I was sick of asking my friend to borrow his all the time, and he didn't even have a leveler. I still hadn't put it together last night... minor setback. I should have it assembled and the engine out this weekend, if not tonight.

[Nollywood]

I thought about making a longer slave rod to try, but that's just a 'patch' for a deeper assembly problem. I'd rather take the spacer right out and do it right.

I bought a new engine hoist the other day, with a crank-type leveling attachment! I was sick of asking my friend to borrow his all the time, and he didn't even have a leveler. I still hadn't put it together last night... minor setback. I should have it assembled and the engine out this weekend, if not tonight.

Unless you're doing maintenance / repairs to the power unit, wouldn't it be a lot easier to pull the trans instead?

[geoffsta99]

Unless you're doing maintenance / repairs to the power unit, wouldn't it be a lot easier to pull the trans instead?

Negative, ghost rider. I'm doing this whole project in my driveway so i'd rather not drop it from underneath. Plus not much was connected anyway, all I had to disconnect was the slave cyl, motor mounts, tranny mounts, downpipe, heater core hoses, power steering line, and a few electrical connections. Hasn't taken me more than 2 hours total, all I have left are a few bellhousing bolts and she's out.

I've had the tranny out before, but that was under a lift, and still running the 2.7T (for an RS4 clutch job). Running a 1.8T makes everything so easy.

[034Motorsport]

I'm following this with interest because I have to start shopping for a new clutch and was considering the 240mm clutch/plate/FW from ESC tuning. Now I see the attempts to put a 6-speed on an AWM 1.8T. I can understand that because it feels it needs an extra gear. At least in my car.

Would it be possible, when everything is set and done, to post a step-by-step guide of installing a 6-speed on an AWM 1.8T? Including parts and tools to be used?

I've seen some very elegant mods done to your cars. However, it is a bear to follow the "instructions" because steps can be lost after page 15 or 19. Instead, a simple one or two-pager (photos included) would be of immense help to those who came in late to the party.

I don't recommend this based on your intended use.

The 01E may have an extra gear, but the final drive isn't very different and you won't be finding more then 1-2mpg better gas mileage (at best, since you'll be lugging the motor quite often and having to shift more). The stock 1.8T motor doesn't have the torque for the length of the gears a 6 speed 01E uses. Only reason I'm installing one is because I'm building a track specific car, I have a 2.0L big turbo motor, and the 01E is much stronger.

The 2.7T turbo has a lot more torque then a 1.8T so as far as a daily driving car, I would stick with your 01A. The amount of parts necessary to swap is very exhaustive.

geoffsta is using a B5 S4 chassis, with a 1.8T motor.

[catbed]

I don't recommend this based on your intended use.

The 01E may have an extra gear, but the final drive isn't very different and you won't be finding more then 1-2mpg better gas mileage (at best, since you'll be lugging the motor quite often and having to shift more). The stock 1.8T motor doesn't have the torque for the length of the gears a 6 speed 01E uses. Only reason I'm installing one is because I'm building a track specific car, I have a 2.0L big turbo motor, and the 01E is much stronger.

The 2.7T turbo has a lot more torque then a 1.8T so as far as a daily driving car, I would stick with your 01A. The amount of parts necessary to swap is very exhaustive.

geoffsta is using a B5 S4 chassis, with a 1.8T motor.

3 parts including the transmission is exhaustive?

But I agree, B5 S4 01E is not the route to go for him. 01A or the B6 3.0 01E would be better.

[catbed]

Negative, ghost rider. I'm doing this whole project in my driveway so i'd rather not drop it from underneath. Plus not much was connected anyway, all I had to disconnect was the slave cyl, motor mounts, tranny mounts, downpipe, heater core hoses, power steering line, and a few electrical connections. Hasn't taken me more than 2 hours total, all I have left are a few bellhousing bolts and she's out.

I've had the tranny out before, but that was under a lift, and still running the 2.7T (for an RS4 clutch job). Running a 1.8T makes everything so easy.

I much prefer dropping the transmission, even when I did mine in my drive way. Just need to get the car up HIGH on jack stands, and buy an actual transmission jack. That way the trans jack supports the transmission and you just have to worry about lining the splines up.

[034Motorsport]

3 parts including the transmission is exhaustive?

But I agree, B5 S4 01E is not the route to go for him. 01A or the B6 3.0 01E would be better.

3 parts? What gives you the impression it is three parts?

01E S4 transmission
01E Shifter Linkage
01E Stablizer bar and cross-rod
01E Throwout Arm (they aren't included with most)
B5 S4 6 speed driveshaft
B5 S4 6 speed rear differential
B5 S4 front axles
B5 S4 shifter box (you really want a push down 6th gear?)
B5 S4 shifter
B5 S4 or B5 A4 Automatic/V6 front subframe (what about that missing provision, eh?)

Yes. 3 parts.

[catbed]

3 parts? What gives you the impression it is three parts?

01E S4 transmission
01E Shifter Linkage
01E Stablizer bar and cross-rod
01E Throwout Arm (they aren't included with most)
B5 S4 6 speed driveshaft
B5 S4 6 speed rear differential
B5 S4 front axles
B5 S4 shifter box (you really want a push down 6th gear?)
B5 S4 shifter
B5 S4 or B5 A4 Automatic/V6 front subframe (what about that missing provision, eh?)

Yes. 3 parts.

Sorry, I exaggerated the amount of parts.

01E
01E Linkage
01E Driveshaft
Automatic A4 Rear Diff

Use stock rear axles, swap the old diff axles flanges to 01E, use stock front axles.

[M-Hood]

Sorry, I exaggerated the amount of parts.

01E
01E Linkage
01E Driveshaft
Automatic A4 Rear Diff

Use stock rear axles, swap the old diff axles flanges to 01E, use stock front axles.

You missed having to make a custom driver side bracket or swapping in a V6 sub frame.

If he wants to drop the RPM in high gear he might as well just get a 2.8 01A which is just a direct swap.

[geoffsta99]

I much prefer dropping the transmission, even when I did mine in my drive way. Just need to get the car up HIGH on jack stands, and buy an actual transmission jack. That way the trans jack supports the transmission and you just have to worry about lining the splines up.

I can see that being pretty easy i guess... either way works.

I had my engine out this weekend to figure out the spacer issue. I'm going to take my stock B5 S4 spacer and machine it down, it looks like i only need about 1/4" of space on this setup. (i actually only used thin washers until i achieved enough clearance for the clutch, i'll measure the thickness with a mic tomorrow and mill it down.)

[M-Hood]

I can see that being pretty easy i guess... either way works.

I had my engine out this weekend to figure out the spacer issue. I'm going to take my stock B5 S4 spacer and machine it down, it looks like i only need about 1/4" of space on this setup. (i actually only used thin washers until i achieved enough clearance for the clutch, i'll measure the thickness with a mic tomorrow and mill it down.)

But why do you feel like you need a spacer at all? Others are running a 01E on their 1.8t without a spacer. There is actually more room inside the 01E bellhousing then there is with the 01A and the CM 240mm A4 1.8t clutch/flywheel kit fits the 01A without any issues. It also fits the B6 1.8t 6 speed and that doesn't have a spacer either.

[Nollywood]

I can see that being pretty easy i guess... either way works.

I had my engine out this weekend to figure out the spacer issue. I'm going to take my stock B5 S4 spacer and machine it down, it looks like i only need about 1/4" of space on this setup. (i actually only used thin washers until i achieved enough clearance for the clutch, i'll measure the thickness with a mic tomorrow and mill it down.)

Bud, you're making things difficult for yourself, and it doesn't need to be. The S4 trans spacer isn't needed running your clutch / FW combo with an 01E. There's something else that's not right otherwise.

[geoffsta99]

But why do you feel like you need a spacer at all? Others are running a 01E on their 1.8t without a spacer. There is actually more room inside the 01E bellhousing then there is with the 01A and the CM 240mm A4 1.8t clutch/flywheel kit fits the 01A without any issues. It also fits the B6 1.8t 6 speed and that doesn't have a spacer either.

Bud, you're making things difficult for yourself, and it doesn't need to be. The S4 trans spacer isn't needed running your clutch / FW combo with an 01E. There's something else that's not right otherwise.

When everything is installed without the spacer, I cannot turn the engine over by hand from the front crank bolt. It took a few thin washers to space it out to the point where I could turn the whole assembly with clutch clearance.

When everything is installed with the spacer, I have clearance, but my slave cyl. bottoms out before disengaging the clutch.

With just the washers installed, I have full clutch motion, and the clutch disengages halfway through pedal travel. (FWIW, the stacked washers measure .281" or 9/32")

The 2nd post to this thread has a link to another thread, where the OP used a B7 RS4 spacer to make everything work... which I beleive is thinner than the B5 S4 spacer. Worst case scenario, I mill mine down in about a half hour, no other wasted time/money.

[M-Hood]

Other option is to use some white grease to find out where the PP is hitting on the bell housing and see if your able to grind those spots down.

[geoffsta99]

Other option is to use some white grease to find out where the PP is hitting on the bell housing and see if your able to grind those spots down.

...And dirty up that nice shiny clutch!?!?

[Scientist]

I don't recommend this based on your intended use.

But I agree, B5 S4 01E is not the route to go for him. 01A or the B6 3.0 01E would be better.

Thank you gents. That's the kind of feedback I really appreciate.

[M-Hood]

...And dirty up that nice shiny clutch!?!?

CM 240mm pressure plate is already white. lol

[geoffsta99]

Well I brought my stock (B5 S4) spacer to work and machined it down to .281" thick, and it seems to work perfectly. Cranks over just fine, and the clutch feels like it disengages in the right spot.

Now onto my fueling issue... Fuel pump does not prime or run, but when I jump pins 30 and 87 on the fuel pump relay, the pump runs at full-bore. I know it's off topic, so if anyone feels like they can help, shoot me a PM, thanks.

[catbed]

Well I brought my stock (B5 S4) spacer to work and machined it down to .281" thick, and it seems to work perfectly. Cranks over just fine, and the clutch feels like it disengages in the right spot.

Now onto my fueling issue... Fuel pump does not prime or run, but when I jump pins 30 and 87 on the fuel pump relay, the pump runs at full-bore. I know it's off topic, so if anyone feels like they can help, shoot me a PM, thanks.

Glad to hear, seems like the issue was with your flywheel.

Sounds like you're fuel pump relay is shot. Replace that and see what happens.

[Gberg888]

like this thread

[Dannybuilt87]

You do not need to use a spacer and you should not need to grind any of the bell housing, you can bolt the 01E right to the 1.8t block and it will work perfectly fine with the CM 240mm A4 1.8t clutch/flywheel kit as it is.

The clearance issue with the CM 240mm A4 1.8t clutch/flywheel kit is with the 01A 5 speed transmission on the 2002-2003 A4 1.8t. But that is very rare and only because the manufacture of the bell housing did not fill in a spot on the mold when they did the casting of that bell housing.

Walky - The height would only be an issue when trying to run the CM 240mm flywheel with a Luk pressure plate since it is much taller then the Sach pressure plate that CM uses for their A4 1.8t 240mm clutch kit. The 01E actually has more space inside the bell housing then the 01A. The CM 240mm A4 1.8t kit fits perfectly fine on the B6 A4 1.8t 6 speed and the bell housing on that transmission isn't any different then the 01E bell housing.


Here is a picture of the B6 01A 5 speed bell housing that is an issue when running the CM 240mm A4 1.8t kit.



This is what the B5 01A 5 speed bell housing looks like.

(excuse the other scraps on the bell housing, that is what happens when a PP cracks and the flat rings become saw blades).



The grinding needed on the B6 01A 5 speed that has the issue.

Hey there M-Hood I’m having trouble viewing the photo of the modified bell housing. I have the 01A 5 speed Quattro trans and I’m attempting to put in the cm 240mm clutch kit conversion from ecs tuning and I’m having issues with clearance. The pressure plate and clutch is a luk and the lightweight flywheel is the ecs tuning brand that eliminates the dual mass flywheel. Just want to make sure i grind in the right place and how much to make it fit properly and work. Thank you I know this thread is old one and I can see the links to the pictures up here but im sure they’ve expired. Any insight with this situation would help.