best oil among VW 502 00 and VW 504 00

[westwest888]

I'm thinking about going with a VW 502 00 approved Mobil 1 in 0W-40. I want to hear what other people on the board are doing. I'm in a mild climate where the temperature is never really under 50 degrees. I'm mostly concerned with heat dissipation, followed by high performance (maximum output) because I take the car out to the track quite a bit. I'm OK with changing it at 7500 if I've cheated myself a little bit on protection.

Maintenance work
Engine oil replacement interval : 10,000 miiles or 1 year
Engine oil specifications: VW standard 502 00 or 504 00
Engine oil filter replacement interval: at every oil change
Engine oil change quantity (incl. filter): 6.5 liters (6.9 quarts)

This is an interesting article on Porsches and oil:
http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

[mx22]

I think Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40 Full Synthetic Motor Oil is being highly recommended on this forum. Search for oil test analysis threads here...

[dparm]

As the resident B6/B7 S4 oil guru, I'll weigh in.

Mobil 1 0w40 is hands-down one of the best VW 502/505 oils you will find. The specifications are untouchable by anything at that price point, and even by the boutique oils costing twice as much. For $5.50/qt it's hard to justify NOT using it.

Just look at all the approvals it meets. It's a streetable race oil. Did you know that M1 0w40 is used straight from the bottle in several racing series?

[jran76]

Motul VW/Audi Specific (505.00, 505.01, 502) would be my first choice (only comes in 5W-40). After that there are several that I would consider (Penzoil Ultra, Castrol Euro, Redline, Mobil 1, etc.). I don't see any real issue running 0W-40 based on where you live, but I also don't think there is any real advantage to doing so. Once you are at full operating temp, the difference between a 0W and 5W will be minimal.

If you want the absolute best for racing, go with Motul 300V racing oil. It is the best you can buy, but you will need to go to more frequent changes....

[dparm]

Motul VW/Audi Specific (505.00, 505.01, 502) would be my first choice (only comes in 5W-40). After that there are several that I would consider (Penzoil Ultra, Castrol Euro, Redline, Mobil 1, etc.). I don't see any real issue running 0W-40 based on where you live, but I also don't think there is any real advantage to doing so. Once you are at full operating temp, the difference between a 0W and 5W will be minimal.

If you want the absolute best for racing, go with Motul 300V racing oil. It is the best you can buy, but you will need to go to more frequent changes....

The thinking of "0w oils are only for cold weather" needs to die. It is not based in fact. Actually there are NUMEROUS 0wX oils that surpass their 5wX counterparts. Frankly, I think Motul Specific 502 is way overpriced and rather mediocre. I'd rather run M1 0w40.


In general, asking what is the "best" oil is way too broad of a question. You need to tell us the following: Driving style? % highway/city? Any track days? Is the car stock? How often is the car driven? Lots of short trips? How often do you want to change the oil?

[jran76]

The thinking of "0w oils are only for cold weather" needs to die. It is not based in fact. Actually there are NUMEROUS 0wX oils that surpass their 5wX counterparts. Frankly, I think Motul Specific 502 is way overpriced and rather mediocre. I'd rather run M1 0w40.


In general, asking what is the "best" oil is way too broad of a question. You need to tell us the following: Driving style? % highway/city? Any track days? Is the car stock? How often is the car driven? Lots of short trips? How often do you want to change the oil?

Can you point me to an oil analysis for the Motul specific oil when used on the 3.0 TFSI engine? I am about to take the plunge, but I have not been able to find any Blackstone analysis on this oil when used in the 3.0 TFSI engine (I don't really care about other engines....).

I don't disagree with the first part at all. In no way was I saying there was some advantage in a 5W vs. 0W based on temp. My only point was I do not think there is a big advantage one way or the other in his case. I won't comment on anything else, because as you pointed out, there are way too many factors to debate this here....

Pick an oil, and get it analyzed by Blackstone if you really want to know how it works in your car. From my personal experience on previous cars, I have had better results with Motul and Redline than Mobil 1 (along with awful results from Royal Purple). These are the only four oils I have personally had tested, and none were from my S4. From what I have seen on the B8 S4, Penzoil Ultra in 5W-40 seems to have the best results based on the limited testing that has been done.

This thread covers the Blackstone testing done on the B8 S4 so far (still needs more test results):
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ght=Blackstone

If you do get your oil tested by Blackstone, please update the above thread. I am at my second oil change and will be switching to the Motul, so hopefully I will have some real results on the Motul in the next 6 months.

[PitchS4]

What would someone who drives short trips look for? A 5w for higher thickness when cold (since the oil may not reach full operating temp)? I have Motul X-Cess 8100 in my garage from my B6 S4 still. I am a ways away from my next change on the new B8 S4 but I had just planned on using that.

[Akatsuki...]

I have been using Redline 5w-40 since I got my car. Used it on my last GTI, which eliminated my oil consumption completely.

[dparm]

jran, I've not seen any analyses of the Specific 502 or Specific 504 on the 3.0TFSI. It will work just fine, though for that much money I don't think you'll see any difference versus the store-bought oils.

The 0w oils almost always provide an advantage of higher viscosity indexes, which equates to better startup pumping & flow. Remember how they scare you with things like "40% of all engine wear occurs at startup"? There is some truth in that, and we want an oil that flows and pumps very quickly when the motor is cranked over.

I don't really stick with a single brand. I have no allegiance to a particular lubricant company. I buy the oils that have proven records. And believe me, I have gotten tons of UOAs from Blackstone in my B6 S4 -- both at the "halfway" point and when changed. A common mistake is that people get too fixated on a single brand, oil chemistry, or specification. They think esters are the ultimate in oil. Or they think they need a very specific HTHS value. Or they seem to think that Redline is the best oil ever.

Every oil is different. Every motor is different. Every driver is different. Get UOAs (and VOAs) from a lab and find what works best for your scenario, as you said.



As an aside, the B6/B7 S4 guys loved all the Liqui-Moly (Lubro-Moly in the US) oils. The UOAs were always mediocre in the 4.2L V8. No matter what I said, people still seemed to think it was an amazing oil. My UOAs on other oils always showed lower wear, less viscosity loss, higher flash points, and better TBN retention. So I think there will always be people who are not objective about this decision.

Can you point me to an oil analysis for the Motul specific oil when used on the 3.0 TFSI engine? I am about to take the plunge, but I have not been able to find any Blackstone analysis on this oil when used in the 3.0 TFSI engine (I don't really care about other engines....).

I don't disagree with the first part at all. In no way was I saying there was some advantage in a 5W vs. 0W based on temp. My only point was I do not think there is a big advantage one way or the other in his case. I won't comment on anything else, because as you pointed out, there are way too many factors to debate this here....

Pick an oil, and get it analyzed by Blackstone if you really want to know how it works in your car. From my personal experience on previous cars, I have had better results with Motul and Redline than Mobil 1 (along with awful results from Royal Purple). These are the only four oils I have personally had tested, and none were from my S4. From what I have seen on the B8 S4, Penzoil Ultra in 5W-40 seems to have the best results based on the limited testing that has been done.

This thread covers the Blackstone testing done on the B8 S4 so far (still needs more test results):
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ght=Blackstone

If you do get your oil tested by Blackstone, please update the above thread. I am at my second oil change and will be switching to the Motul, so hopefully I will have some real results on the Motul in the next 6 months.

[dparm]

I have been using Redline 5w-40 since I got my car. Used it on my last GTI, which eliminated my oil consumption completely.

Try their 0w40. Far better oil.

Their 5w40 is WAY too thick (HTHS 4.6). I would argue that the 0w40 is a bit too heavy too (HTHS 4.0).

Much better: mix the 0w30 and 0w40 in a 1:1 ratio. You'll keep the super-high VI and get HTHS around 3.6, which is perfect.

[QSonx]

Motul 300V Power 5W40 :) is what I use... But only for track season and have to change it more often.

But I use Motul Specific normally.

[helix139]

Mobil 1 Euro 0W-40, German Castrol 0W-30, Pennzoil Ultra, Motul VW 502 Specific, and Amsoil Euro 5W-40 are all very good choices, but it ultimately depends on your driving style and change interval. I got Audicare free when I bought my car, and my dealer uses Castrol Syntec 5W-40. I get my regular services done at the dealership but change myself halfway through the 10k interval and thus far have put in Mobil 1 0W-40 because of my climate (Florida) and it is available locally. After my Audicare is up, I'll likely change it myself at 7500mi using either Mobil 1, Pennzoil, or Amsoil. I could probably stretch to 10000mi with any of those oils but why risk it? It's cheap insurance.

[dparm]

I would not base my oil decision on what the dealer uses. They're buying whatever is cheapest but meeting VW specs.

Also, VAG is allied with Castrol for OEM oil fill. It's not because Castrol is best, it's because Castrol outbid everyone else.

[dparm]

Motul 300V Power 5W40 :) is what I use... But only for track season and have to change it more often.

But I use Motul Specific normally.

Why do you change the 300V more often? Do the analyses show it breaking down under track use? I used to run 300V 5w30 in my B6 S4 and even after track days it was still within grade and not contaminated.

[Stereodude]

Did you know that M1 0w40 is used straight from the bottle in several racing series?

The same is true of Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40.

[dparm]

The same is true of Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40.

I don't doubt it. I still consider M1 0w40 to be superior to PU 5w40 though it's still a good oil. Pennzoil's biggest problem is they make good stuff like PU 5w40 and even 0w40, but they don't sell it in B&M stores.

[redrocker55]

Here is my oil analysis and testing thread for the 3.0 TFSI. I've tried several oils and have settled in with P Ultra 5w40. It's actually tested better than AMSoil Euro in my car. I've going to 11,000 miles on this OCI to see how it does. I'm at 73,000+ miles right now. Engine is running great. Not needing to add any oil.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...?highlight=oil

Some people have had experience with oil shearing on viscosity stretched oils like M one 0w40. It's not common but there are dozens of reports at BITOG forum. I like the M one 0w40. It's an excellent oil.

To me I would say the 4 best oils for the 3.0 TFSI would be P Ultra Euro 5w40, Amsoil Euro 5w40, Mobile one 0w40 then German Castrol 0w30. But we are really splitting hairs between these 4 oils. My wifes GTI burns more oil with the German Castrol compared to using AMSoil which is what I usually run in her car.

That's my .02...love oil discussion threads!!!

[helix139]

I would not base my oil decision on what the dealer uses. They're buying whatever is cheapest but meeting VW specs.

Also, VAG is allied with Castrol for OEM oil fill. It's not because Castrol is best, it's because Castrol outbid everyone else.

Oh I agree with the notion of not basing it on what the dealer uses. That's why I do in between changes at 5000. I wouldn't dare run 10k on Syntec, but for a 5k run of mostly commuting it will do fine. However, the factory fill is Fuchs, not Castrol for our cars.

[dparm]

German Castrol is not what it used to be. Actually, it's exactly what it used to be....Castrol has not changed that oil for years, and it's now been surpassed by tons of other readily available oils. Shame.

The B6/B7 cars had Castrol Magnatec as factory fill, so it may have changed.

[Jones2012s4]

This question is directed to those who consider their selves Oil Guru's :-)

I ran my car to around 6000 miles before I went into the dealership to have my first Audi Care service appointment. I provided them the Motul Specific that I had purchased off of APR. My questions is

Is waiting to 15000 miles for my next service appointment too long?

I am planning on using PU 5w40 for my next few changes.

Should I change my oil now? I am sitting at around 11500 miles, or is that over kill as I would also change it at 15000?

[dparm]

That is WAY too long. The change interval is 10k, which is probably pushing it given how we all drive these things.

[Jones2012s4]

That is WAY too long. The change interval is 10k, which is probably pushing it given how we all drive these things.

I think you Misread, I changed at 6125 around that mark. My question was, should I change right now sitting at 11500(+5375 Miles) OR would it be OK to wait until 15000(+8875 Miles)

At 6125 I used Motul Specific purchased from APR.

I am planning on using PU 5w 40 from here on out.

[dparm]

I think you Misread, I changed at 6125 around that mark. My question was, should I change right now sitting at 11500(+5375 Miles) OR would it be OK to wait until 15000(+8875 Miles)

At 6125 I used Motul Specific purchased from APR.

I am planning on using PU 5w 40 from here on out.

You're probably fine going to 15,000 unless the car is constantly short-tripped or on the track every weekend.

Also, are you getting PU 5w40 locally? I hope you aren't paying more than $7-8/qt for it...

[QSonx]

Why do you change the 300V more often? Do the analyses show it breaking down under track use? I used to run 300V 5w30 in my B6 S4 and even after track days it was still within grade and not contaminated.

More often as in after 3000-4000 miles instead of 5000-6000 miles. Reason behind my decision was based on speaking with some other Motul users at the track. I should of said I plan to change it more often cause I honestly haven't changed it once yet since putting in the 300V but I don't drive too often. Changing the oil isn't really a chore to me so honestly if Oil was cheaper I would probably change it monthly, lol.

[dparm]

But why remove perfectly good oil? I suggest you pay the $50 for an analysis and see if it can stay in and even go longer. I don't see the value in changing oil so often, especially if it isn't contaminated or depleted.

[Jones2012s4]

You're probably fine going to 15,000 unless the car is constantly short-tripped or on the track every weekend.

Also, are you getting PU 5w40 locally? I hope you aren't paying more than $7-8/qt for it...

I'm going to pick it up off amazon 46-50$ for 6 qts so pretty much right in the middle of what you mentioned, unless you can recommend somewhere else.

[dparm]

I never bothered to research it, but that's still a lot of money for an oil that's going to perform identically to M1 0w40, SynPower 5w40, or Syntec 0w30 under typical use (all of which are <$6/qt).

[Jones2012s4]

I never bothered to research it, but that's still a lot of money for an oil that's going to perform identically to M1 0w40, SynPower 5w40, or Syntec 0w30 under typical use (all of which are <$6/qt).

This is a good point you make, however. My babies worth the extra couple of dollars. :)

Seriously though thank you for the advice! On a side note, since I changed my oil at 6125 with Motul Specific I have not had to refill. I also followed your typical no holding back break in method.

[dparm]

Fill with what you want, but PU 5w40 is not going to perform differently in service than the others I listed. The specs are actually below M1 0w40.

If you do run it, get an analysis and see how it does in your motor.

[essfour]

^ Can you post an analysis of your results using M1 0W-40 in this motor? I find it difficult to believe that this oil, although very good, is as good as you think it is for our cars. I am not saying it is inferior oil, it is great. But it might not be as good as you think… Have you seen the blackstone results using PU 5W-40?

[dparm]

^ Can you post an analysis of your results using M1 0W-40 in this motor? I find it difficult to believe that this oil, although very good, is as good as you think it is for our cars. I am not saying it is inferior oil, it is great. But it might not be as good as you think… Have you seen the blackstone results using PU 5W-40?

I have not had my car long enough to do anything.

Go look around on BobIsTheOilGuy to see all of the excellent analyses returned from a wide variety of motors on that oil. It is definitely "as good as [I] think". API SN, VI of 185, every friggin OEM approval you can think of, and a good HTHS-to-KV ratio. PU 5w40's specs are not nearly as impressive, it costs more, and is harder to get. Like I've said...run what you want as it's your car and your money.