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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings jibberjive's Avatar
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    Huge Post on Wideband Info, and Heads Up on GB

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    In scattered threads on here I've posted about my personal Zeitronix setup, and why I chose the Zeitronix hardware that I chose for my personal build, but now that I have a nice, coherent writeup explaining it all, I figured I'd post it up on the forum in one place.



    I personally of the opinion that any B5 S4 build with bigger than K04 turbos it is requisite to run a wideband, and that it would be a wise investment for any custom-tuned stage 3 and on setup. A wideband sensor and monitoring hardware are just great insurance and useful for optimization (especially fine tuning a 'remote tune' on the street).


    -Why Zeitronix, and why ZT-2?-
    For Audi drivers I recommend the ZT-2 wideband over the other Zeitronix products and over the companies' widebands (I personally run a ZT-2 in my B5 S4 with a handful of Zeitronix accessories [EGT Sensor, Boost MAP Sensor, Fuel Pressure Sensor, ZAVT-1 Alarm Module]). The ZT-2 has the following advantages:

    -- Painless RPM logging with no additional modules and an open OBD II port --
    When logging actual air-fuel ratio with a wideband, it is important to simultaneously log other variables from the car's ECU (such as requested AFR, stock oxygen sensor voltages, MAF flow, etc) to fine tune or monitor a vehicle's tune. A wideband has to be able to log RPM in order to easily correlate and align the data from the wideband sensor with the car's ECU data. Some of the competing products (like the Innovate LC-1) require an additional RPM logging module for the Audi's, at additional cost and complexity. Other products (such as the Innovate OT-2) use the OBD II port to log RPM, making it impossible to log the ECU variables at the same time. The Zeitronix ZT-2, however, self-contains everything needed to painlessly log RPM out-of-the-box, and with the ZT-2 logging RPM it is as easy as splicing a single wire.


    -- Future-proof and Versatile --
    Though all of the hardware required to read wideband AFR's comes included in the ZT-2 package, there are however a plethora of add-on's that allow the ZT-2 to grow with your budget, or adapt to your needs as your build(s) progresses. Every ZT-2 comes equipped stock with the ability to simultaneously read 4 inputs (in addition to RPM and TPS), which can include:

    -Exhaust Gas Temp- Most turbo Audi's are equipped with a stock EGT sensor, however the stock Audi EGT sensor is used as an upper-limit failsafe only. This means that the stock EGT sensor doesn't usually register a loggable reading below their failsafe threshold (which is usually a high value that you ideally wouldn't often be going above [945*C for the B5, for example]). So, the stock EGT sensors are good for their role as an ECU failsafe, but they are useless for monitoring the exhaust gas temperature where your car is going to be running 99% of the time. Exhaust gas temperature is an important tuning parameter and affects knock threshold and engine reliability. With the ZT-2 and Zeitronix's EGT probe, EGT's can easily be monitored and logged with high precision.

    -Boost/Vacuum MAP Sensor- Similar to the EGT sensors, most turbo Audi's are also equipped with a stock boost MAP sensor for the stock ECU. However, like the stock EGT sensors, the stock MAP sensors also have hardware/software limitations with regards to loggable/readable values. The stock MAP sensor was originally implemented with stock boost pressure levels in mind (below 10 psi), and thus it is limited in it's ability to log values above a certain threshold (which is usually around 22 psi max boost on a B5 S4, for example). Many of the stage 3 and above turbo setups are boosting well above 22psi, and if they were to rely solely on the stock MAP sensor readings, they would be flying blind above ~22psi. An analog boost gauge in the cabin is better than nothing, but without a way to log/correlate the boost values with log data from the ECU and wideband, an analog boost gauge doesn't do a whole lot when trying to review logs or possibly have a 3rd party fine tune a 'remote tune'. Together with the ZT-2 and an in-cabin gauge (ZR-2, LCD or DashDAQ), a Zeitronix MAP sensor can also be used as an in-cabin boost gauge. I recommend the 5-bar MAP sensor over the 3-bar, as they both have similar accuracy (down to ~0.1psi), though the 5-bar has a larger range.

    -Fuel/Oil Pressure Sensor- The stock B5 ECU doesn't have provisions to monitor fuel pressure. Whenever a turbo car is modified near the threshold of the stock fuel system and above, it is wise to monitor the system's fuel pressure, as a sub-par or faulty fuel system can cause lean AFR's and potentially lead to catastrophic engine failure. A standard analog fuel pressure gauge that people often install under the hood is good for setting a base fuel pressure at idle, but a weak or struggling fuel system usually manifests itself by not being able to keep up the fuel pressure at higher load/revs (not revving in neutral or idling). Similar to analog boost gauges, under-hood analog fuel pressure gauges lack the ability to log or monitor the fuel pressure throughout the rev-range, to later correlate with the rest of the log data. When utilizing an upgraded fuel system (possibly with multiple pumps and multiple potential failure points), it is wise to use a Zeitronix fuel pressure sensor during the tuning process to make sure your fuel system is up to snuff, and later to monitor the health of the fuel pumps/system as you daily drive.

    - ZAVT-1 Audio-Visual Warning and Trigger Box- The ZAVT-1 is a innovation by Zeitronix that acts as an alarm, making a noise and igniting a red LED when certain user-defined thresholds are breached . The ZAVT-1 can also be set up to trigger a relay, as a system failsafe. For example, say you want a warning when the car is running leaner than 12.5:1 AFR above 4000RPM: you just set those warning parameters in the user-friendly software, and every time the car goes leaner than 12.5 above 4000RPM, an alarm will sound and a red LED will turn on (an output to trigger a relay for some sort of physical failsafe is also configurable). The ZAVT-1 can use the input data from many different sensors, including boost, AFR, RPM, fuel pressure, TPS, IAT, and EGT's.

    - Black Box Data Logger- This is used in conjunction with the Zt-2 (or ZT-3) and essentially serves as a one-button logging trigger and memory card, so that you can log on the fly without a laptop.

    - Easy Presentation and Analysis of Logs- The Zeitronix ZT-2 is one of very few widebands currently supported by Nyet's ECUxPlot, which is the de facto Audi B5 log plotting utility. ECUxPlot is a log graphing program that takes the logged data that you get from the ECU and automatically correlates it via RPM with the logged data from the Zeitronix ZT-2. ECUxPlot has automated correlation, filtering, graphing, and picture exporting features, which make analyzing the raw log data infinitely more palatable and easy. Example graphs from ECUxPlot can be seen HERE.

    - User definable 0-5V inputs (log methanol injection flow for example)- The ZT-2 has 2 user definable inputs that can be logged simultaneously with AFR and RPM. Some people have been using it to monitor their methanol/alcolhol injection, for example, as seen HERE.



    **Simply put, proper logging is some of the cheapest insurance you can get when working with thousands of dollars worth of hardware, and there is nothing like the peace of mind that comes from having hard data to verify that your car is running properly and not in danger. And that's not even mentioning the performance and optimization benefits that come with proper logging**




    Example of an ECUxPlot graph of 2 3rd gear pulls, data logged simultaneously from the car's ECU (requested AFR [blue]) and the Zeitronix ZT-2 (actual AFR [red] and boost [purple])

    Last edited by jibberjive; 03-21-2014 at 12:35 AM.
    ** GT2860R-7 S4 Build Log--

    LOOKING FOR:
    --Late 2.7t Block "BF"
    --Your Broken/Sheared OEM Axles--

  2. #2
    Established Member Two Rings trichard3000's Avatar
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    Thanks for the writeup! I'm just starting to get my feet wet with self-tuning. I'm still in the process of gathering parts for my stage 3 build, running an OTS stage 1 tune today with stage 2 hardware. I've been considering jumping in to wideband logging earlier rather than later, to help my learning process. I have a couple of questions about this:

    * Is there any benefit to WB before moving to stage 3?

    My first real tuning steps (other than just flashing other people's base files) will be to upgrade my MAF to an 85mm housing and my fuel injectors to EV14 52lb while I'm still at stage 2. Can WB help dial this kind of stuff in at low boost levels or is it overkill?


    * Can I log ZT-2 WB on the same laptop at the same time as ME7Logger?

    My laptop doesn't have a legacy serial port but it does have a couple of USB ports. Can I run ME7L with a blue USB cable at the same time that I'm using a USB-Serial adapter to log WB?


    Thanks for the info. I'm considering the group buy but I may also wait to see if a basic ZT-2 logging kit pops up in the forum classifieds or on ebay.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings 2380S4's Avatar
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    Thanks Mike for the info.

    I'll send you an email with more questions.
    Current: 2018 RS3 Audi Exclusive Navarra Blue Stage 2 ECU 93 & TCU Unitronic, Intake, Inlet, Intercooler all Unitronic, Downpipes APR, ECE dogbone, KW HAS, APR coils, 7437-9 plugs, Eurocode Sway Bars & End Links.
    2001 S4 Avant Brilliant Black STG 1, ST Coilovers, AWE Twin 2, XS Power DP's, Neespeed Rear Sway Bar, 034 Adjustable End Links, 034 TBB & Bi-Pipes
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  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings jibberjive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trichard3000 View Post
    Thanks for the writeup! I'm just starting to get my feet wet with self-tuning. I'm still in the process of gathering parts for my stage 3 build, running an OTS stage 1 tune today with stage 2 hardware. I've been considering jumping in to wideband logging earlier rather than later, to help my learning process. I have a couple of questions about this:

    * Is there any benefit to WB before moving to stage 3?

    My first real tuning steps (other than just flashing other people's base files) will be to upgrade my MAF to an 85mm housing and my fuel injectors to EV14 52lb while I'm still at stage 2. Can WB help dial this kind of stuff in at low boost levels or is it overkill?
    For your average stage 2 person, I wouldn't recommend investing in a wideband (most stage 2 tunes make power by adding boost and timing, leaving the fueling tables alone). However, if someone is self-tuning and/or changing fueling hardware (ie MAF and fuel injectors) with their stage 2 stuff, a wideband can definitely be beneficial and will speed up getting your actual AFR's in check.

    Quote Originally Posted by trichard3000 View Post
    * Can I log ZT-2 WB on the same laptop at the same time as ME7Logger? ...
    Can I run ME7L with a blue USB cable at the same time that I'm using a USB-Serial adapter to log WB?
    Yup, that's exactly what you do, you log the ECU with the blue cable and ME7L (or ECUx if you prefer), and you log the wideband with a serial-to-usb adapter in a different usb port on the same laptop. I log with a simple Acer Aspire One netbook, and it's plenty powerful enough to do everything I need regarding logging/flashing.

    Quote Originally Posted by trichard3000 View Post
    My laptop doesn't have a legacy serial port but it does have a couple of USB ports.
    Just thought I'd comment on this separately (for you and others), if you don't already have a serial-usb converter, you need to get one to log if your laptop doesn't have a serial port (most don't). I suggest the USB adapter that is linked in the group buy, as I had a bunch of trouble figuring out that my Keyspan USA-19HS was messing everything up, so if you have this adapter, you will need to uninstall the driver to get the Zeitronix to work!

    Quote Originally Posted by trichard3000 View Post
    Thanks for the info. I'm considering the group buy but I may also wait to see if a basic ZT-2 logging kit pops up in the forum classifieds or on ebay.
    Just a heads up, that the Zeitronix hardware is always evolving, and there are a bunch of different past versions with different capabilities. If you get something used off of ebay, then you may not have the latest version with all of the current features. If you do decide to buy new, you'll get a better price from the group buy than you will from ebay as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by 2380S4 View Post
    Thanks Mike for the info.

    I'll send you an email with more questions.
    No prob Ken. Sent you an email back as well, so let me know what you want to do asap.
    Last edited by jibberjive; 07-19-2012 at 02:14 PM.
    ** GT2860R-7 S4 Build Log--

    LOOKING FOR:
    --Late 2.7t Block "BF"
    --Your Broken/Sheared OEM Axles--

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings Monty23's Avatar
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    Did you get my email? Just wondering why my name isn't on the GB list yet...
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  6. #6
    Veteran Member Three Rings z00lander's Avatar
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    Wow. Exactly what i needed today. Great writeup.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings jibberjive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monty23 View Post
    Did you get my email? Just wondering why my name isn't on the GB list yet...
    It will be.
    Last edited by jibberjive; 03-21-2014 at 12:36 AM.
    ** GT2860R-7 S4 Build Log--

    LOOKING FOR:
    --Late 2.7t Block "BF"
    --Your Broken/Sheared OEM Axles--

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings Trigger Happy's Avatar
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    So does this allow you to delete the factory sensors it replaces, O2, egt, map? As in, can I use this kit instead of the factory sensors with the factory ecu, simplifying and upgrading the engine monitoring that the ecu uses, as-well as allowing me to log more accurately?
    "Clearly, a liger is not as practical as a Katana. S4s can't carry ligers. fucking 500lb cat in my backseat using my alcantara as a scratch post for its HUGE FUCKING CLAWS? I dont' think so bro"

    Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you.

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings Don Supreme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Happy View Post
    So does this allow you to delete the factory sensors it replaces, O2, egt, map? As in, can I use this kit instead of the factory sensors with the factory ecu, simplifying and upgrading the engine monitoring that the ecu uses, as-well as allowing me to log more accurately?
    No it does not.

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings jibberjive's Avatar
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    Technically it has a narrowband simulated output that could replace one of the primary O2 sensors (there are some people who have done this), but you probably don't want to do that. And no on the other sensors.
    ** GT2860R-7 S4 Build Log--

    LOOKING FOR:
    --Late 2.7t Block "BF"
    --Your Broken/Sheared OEM Axles--

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings Meow's Avatar
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    Here is where mine is mounted. Very nice that it displays my oil pressure, boost pressure, afr and egt as well. All extremely important to a monitor a tune to make sure that it stays a healthy long lasting engine. Ive been thinking about moving it to the top of the steering column, what do you all think?

    RIP Daz, you will be missed.

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings jibberjive's Avatar
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    Looks clean and stealth over there. I put mine there for a minute, but I've kinda temporarily stuck it on top of the steering column for the past few months because it's much easier to monitor up there while driving, as it's right in front of you. Once I am done tuning, I'll probably move it back to where you have it. I've also got the ZAVT-1 alarm box mounted on the trim to the right of the steering wheel.
    ** GT2860R-7 S4 Build Log--

    LOOKING FOR:
    --Late 2.7t Block "BF"
    --Your Broken/Sheared OEM Axles--

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings Monty23's Avatar
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    Do you have to mount the egt sensor pre turbo? all you are really looking for is a high delta t once your WOT correct? Could I mount the egt sensor post turbo and just watch for increasing temps. What sort of egts are unsafe?
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  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings jibberjive's Avatar
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    You'll want the EGT pre-turbo. As for what EGT's are unsafe, you'll want to talk to your tuner and decide what you feel should be the upper limit. The stock ECU triggers "oh crap mode" at 980*C.
    ** GT2860R-7 S4 Build Log--

    LOOKING FOR:
    --Late 2.7t Block "BF"
    --Your Broken/Sheared OEM Axles--

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Three Rings nkbks4's Avatar
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    I used to have my display on the steering column also. Was nice to have it rite in my face while driving, and was very accurate comparing to logs also... I now have the ZR2 gauge in the center vent.

    I've had zeitronix since I was stage 1. Always nice to know ur AFR, and it can eliminate the need to buy a different boost gauge.

    Thumbs up for sure.....
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  16. #16
    Registered Member One Ring
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    Very true, why spend $60-200 on a different in-cabin boost gauge, when that is a good chunk towards a ZT-2 which is used as an in-cabin boost gauge and so much more.

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings Monty23's Avatar
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    Thanks for setting up this GB Jib!
    Last edited by Monty23; 07-19-2012 at 05:42 AM.
    STK -> Compound Turbo Build Thread
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  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings shorterthanrich's Avatar
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    Any thoughts on the best place to mount the ZT-2?

    I have the logging system with the multigauge, wideband sensor, and 5 bar MAP sensor. Just trying to figure out where to hide the Zt-2, especially since the wire to the gauge is pretty short..

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  19. #19
    Veteran Member Four Rings jibberjive's Avatar
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    I just put it directly under the ECU in the ECU box. Fits snugly and works, with easy access to run the wires under the driver's bolster.
    ** GT2860R-7 S4 Build Log--

    LOOKING FOR:
    --Late 2.7t Block "BF"
    --Your Broken/Sheared OEM Axles--

  20. #20
    Veteran Member Four Rings shorterthanrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jibberjive View Post
    I just put it directly under the ECU in the ECU box. Fits snugly and works, with easy access to run the wires under the driver's bolster.
    That sounds like a perfect spot - great! It makes it easy to set up the MAP sensor as well, since I had my old boost gauge MAP sensor in there.

    To anyone considering this, I just received my Zeitronix system in the mail, and it is extremely high quality. Being able to monitor AFR and PSI on one gauge is so helpful, but more importantly being able to log AFR, PSI, Throttle Position, & RPM at once is crucial to proper tuning. I'm convinced that if more people had a proper logging setup, our platform would come out of the dark ages much faster.

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  21. #21
    Veteran Member Four Rings Don Supreme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shorterthanrich View Post
    That sounds like a perfect spot - great! It makes it easy to set up the MAP sensor as well, since I had my old boost gauge MAP sensor in there.

    To anyone considering this, I just received my Zeitronix system in the mail, and it is extremely high quality. Being able to monitor AFR and PSI on one gauge is so helpful, but more importantly being able to log AFR, PSI, Throttle Position, & RPM at once is crucial to proper tuning. I'm convinced that if more people had a proper logging setup, our platform would come out of the dark ages much faster.
    Every single B5 S4 should be monitoring their AFR, IMHO.

    Its not just about tuning for mad power. If you know what that data means it can help you diagnose various problems that S4s tend to experience... I.E Misfires, boost leaks (busted throttle body boot for example :-))... Knowledge is power.
    Last edited by Don Supreme; 07-20-2012 at 05:37 PM.

  22. #22
    Established Member Two Rings trichard3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Supreme View Post
    Every single B5 S4 should be monitoring their AFR, IMHO.

    Its not just about tuning for mad power. If you know what that data means it can help you diagnose various problems that S4s tend to experiece... I.E Misfires, boost leaks (busted throttle body boot for example :-))... Knowledge is power.
    The more I read up on tuning, the more I see what you mean by this. That's why I'm in this group buy. I'm going to get my tune-fu all trained up by dialing in a stage 2 tune before ever going stage 3.

    By the way Don Supreme, any more news on your FIS display stuff? I'd love to see WB data on the cluster display! I'm thinking about cooking up my own. :-)

  23. #23
    Veteran Member Four Rings shorterthanrich's Avatar
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    Got my ZR-2 multigauge installed over the weekend and I LOVE it. Only hooked up to MAP sensor right now, but its fantastic. The quality is definitely there...

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  24. #24
    Veteran Member Four Rings Don Supreme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shorterthanrich View Post
    Got my ZR-2 multigauge installed over the weekend and I LOVE it. Only hooked up to MAP sensor right now, but its fantastic. The quality is definitely there...
    Post pics bro.

  25. #25
    Veteran Member Four Rings Meow's Avatar
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    peak check feature is nice... :)



    fits in with the blacked out interior nicely...



    hardly notice it with the black dash trim

    RIP Daz, you will be missed.

  26. #26
    Veteran Member Four Rings Monty23's Avatar
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    Meow,
    That looks clean... Is the screen easy to read there while driving hard? I would think your left arm would be in the way with your left arm on the steering wheel and your right arm on the shifter...

    Jib,
    Are you going to post some pictures of your complete install?
    STK -> Compound Turbo Build Thread
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  27. #27
    Veteran Member Four Rings Meow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monty23 View Post
    Meow,
    That looks clean... Is the screen easy to read there while driving hard? I would think your left arm would be in the way with your left arm on the steering wheel and your right arm on the shifter...

    Jib,
    Are you going to post some pictures of your complete install?
    I had to learn to hold the wheel different when I want to watch it. No more arm on top of steering wheel riding ghetto, lol. I hold bottom left with a firm grip and rip through the gears that way :)
    RIP Daz, you will be missed.

  28. #28
    Veteran Member Four Rings jibberjive's Avatar
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    That gauge looks nice and unobtrusive there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monty23 View Post
    Jib,
    Are you going to post some pictures of your complete install?
    When I am able to get a min with a camera, I plan to. Probably sooner than that will be some links to writeups with pictures (that I used to install mine), when I can find them too.
    ** GT2860R-7 S4 Build Log--

    LOOKING FOR:
    --Late 2.7t Block "BF"
    --Your Broken/Sheared OEM Axles--

  29. #29
    Senior Member Two Rings temanuele's Avatar
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    Received my order today, big thanks to Mike for the effortless group buy. I look forward to getting this installed and dialing in my E85 tune!

  30. #30
    Veteran Member Four Rings jibberjive's Avatar
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    I haven't had time to snap some pics of my own install, but since you all are going to be getting your hardware in soon, I thought I'd throw up a few thoughts before I'm able to make a decent writeup.

    Here's the installation instructions from Zeitronix: http://www.zeitronix.com/installatio...structions.pdf

    Here's one writeup that referenced when I was installing mine, author is flyboy: http://www.myaudis4.com/info_zeltronix_af_meter.htm


    Some notes on what I did different:

    - I didn't splice into the RPM and speed wires in the middle of the harness like he did, rather I did it near the rectangular connectors where the wires were already exposed. The RPM wire is indeed a green/blue wire, and it is on the connector closest to the driver's side.

    - I didn't use any solder, just crimps and taps for me, and all is well so far.

    - Since I am planning on being able to take the ZT-2 out of this car to be able to go back and forth to use on other cars to tune, I utilized wiring connectors that are quick-disconnect. For example, on the RPM and speed wires, I used quick splice T taps and quick disconnect male connectors similar to these:

    Taps: 3M™ Scotchlok™ T-Tap Connector 951

    EBAY search

    Male connector: 3M 94810 - EBAY

    For the power wire, you might want to go with the blue one's that are a size bigger (I don't recall what gauge the power/ground wires are). For the straight wires that would normally use a butt-connector, instead of a T tap splice, you would use the female part of the quick disconnect.

    Female straight connector: 3M 94802 - EBAY

    - I put the ZT-2 brain in the ECU box as well, under the ECU. I was also able to fit the boost pressure transducer in there as well.

    I'll make a better writeup, likely with pics later.
    Last edited by jibberjive; 05-30-2013 at 03:24 AM.
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  31. #31
    Veteran Member Four Rings shorterthanrich's Avatar
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    Hey Jib, I was getting it all set up tonight and wasn't sure which wire from the Zeitronix should connect to vehicle speed. I've got it all tapped, but it wasn't clear from the Zeitronix instructions.

    I've got RPM running to the Green wire on the zeitronix.

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  32. #32
    Active Member Two Rings Jeff 's4's Avatar
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    I'm actually kinda surprised how accurate the stock narrowband seems to be. Looks to me like before 4k rpm only the rpm's are different (which is a constant anyway) and after that it looks to be fairly close... Or am i reading this all wrong, i admittedly know very little about tuning.
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  33. #33
    Veteran Member Four Rings jibberjive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shorterthanrich View Post
    Hey Jib, I was getting it all set up tonight and wasn't sure which wire from the Zeitronix should connect to vehicle speed. I've got it all tapped, but it wasn't clear from the Zeitronix instructions.

    I've got RPM running to the Green wire on the zeitronix.
    I'll try to take some pics of my install for you, hopefully tomorrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff 's4 View Post
    I'm actually kinda surprised how accurate the stock narrowband seems to be. Looks to me like before 4k rpm only the rpm's are different (which is a constant anyway) and after that it looks to be fairly close... Or am i reading this all wrong, i admittedly know very little about tuning.
    Which logs are you looking at? If you talking about the graph in the first post of this thread, there is no stock narrowband O2 sensor data. The blue line is 'requested AFR', which shows the target that the ECU is ideally shooting for, and is not based on feedback from the stock O2 sensors. Also, the reason why I was able to get 'actual AFR' (via wideband reading) and 'requested AFR' (from the ECU) to line up, was because I had the wideband to see where the actual AFR was in relation to requested AFR in the first place. Initially, actual was leaner than the requested, so I had to adjust some parameters to make it richer. Then the actual line was below (richer) than the requested, so more tweaking to bring it back up. Eventually I was able to line the two up, and that's why a wideband is so helpful with tuning these cars.

    And the RPM offset from like 3-4K RPM is just because my wideband is further back in the exhaust stream, where the 2nd muffler usually goes. So it takes a second for the air to get back there to be measured, whereas the ECU's 'requested AFR' is instantaneous.
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  34. #34
    Veteran Member Four Rings shorterthanrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jibberjive View Post
    I'll try to take some pics of my install for you, hopefully tomorrow.
    You don't just recall the color of the zeitronix wire, do you?

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  35. #35
    Veteran Member Four Rings jibberjive's Avatar
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    Nope. Going off of flyboy's writeup though, I would say it's white/blue.
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  36. #36
    Veteran Member Four Rings shorterthanrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jibberjive View Post
    Nope. Going off of flyboy's writeup though, I would say it's white/blue.
    Sorry, communications breakdown. The white/blue wire is the wire to tap into the ECU, but which wire coming from the Zeitronix does it connect to? I've checked through the Zeitronix website, and can't seem to find it. It doesn't reference Speed anywhere.

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  37. #37
    Veteran Member Four Rings Don Supreme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shorterthanrich View Post
    Sorry, communications breakdown. The white/blue wire is the wire to tap into the ECU, but which wire coming from the Zeitronix does it connect to? I've checked through the Zeitronix website, and can't seem to find it. It doesn't reference Speed anywhere.
    All this wiring......... wouldn't be easy if something just plugged in . I wonder where such a thing could be found.

    P.S. I don't think the Zeitronix monitors speed.

  38. #38
    Veteran Member Four Rings Monty23's Avatar
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    Sorry, communications breakdown. The white/blue wire is the wire to tap into the ECU, but which wire coming from the Zeitronix does it connect to? I've checked through the Zeitronix website, and can't seem to find it. It doesn't reference Speed anywhere.
    If you email zeitronix, Marc will get back to you very quickly! GL
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  39. #39
    Veteran Member Four Rings Monty23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Supreme View Post
    All this wiring......... wouldn't be easy if something just plugged in . I wonder where such a thing could be found.

    P.S. I don't think the Zeitronix monitors speed.
    Continue.... I'm interested...
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  40. #40
    Active Member Two Rings Jeff 's4's Avatar
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    Which logs are you looking at? If you talking about the graph in the first post of this thread, there is no stock narrowband O2 sensor data. The blue line is 'requested AFR', which shows the target that the ECU is ideally shooting for, and is not based on feedback from the stock O2 sensors. Also, the reason why I was able to get 'actual AFR' (via wideband reading) and 'requested AFR' (from the ECU) to line up, was because I had the wideband to see where the actual AFR was in relation to requested AFR in the first place. Initially, actual was leaner than the requested, so I had to adjust some parameters to make it richer. Then the actual line was below (richer) than the requested, so more tweaking to bring it back up. Eventually I was able to line the two up, and that's why a wideband is so helpful with tuning these cars.

    And the RPM offset from like 3-4K RPM is just because my wideband is further back in the exhaust stream, where the 2nd muffler usually goes. So it takes a second for the air to get back there to be measured, whereas the ECU's 'requested AFR' is instantaneous.[/QUOTE]

    ahh, I see said the blind man! I'd be curious to see what the calculated afr from narrowband looks like next to the actual. This is definitely one of my next mods...
    stage 3
    k04/997's
    ER's etc. etc. etc...

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