Is there a plug-n-play tune?

[SoFlaS4]

I was wondering if anyone made a plug-n-play tune where I can easily install it and take it out before I bring it to the dealership?

Thanks

[richib86]

you should get the MTM... lol

I was wondering if anyone made a plug-n-play tune where I can easily install it and take it out before I bring it to the dealership?

Thanks

[b6bydesign04]

you should get the MTM... lol

It's probably the easiest plug-n-play out there, lol....

[helix139]

I was wondering if anyone made a plug-n-play tune where I can easily install it and take it out before I bring it to the dealership?

Thanks

Any of the tunes can easily be reflashed to stock at your tune dealer before taking it into the dealership. They can then be reflashed on-site after your service is performed.

[Stubek]

I have APR on my Avant and just get flashed back to stock before going for service.

The real issue is if I have a breakdown and need to get towed in. I will probably have to pull the ECU myself and take it to 034.

Also, at least on the A4, the 2011 and newer models need to have the ECU removed according to APR to get flashed back to stock. Remember, "stock mode" is not the same thing as "stock" and if you go to the dealer in "stock mode" you will probably get caught with TD1

[dparm]

TD1 is "extreme use" or "racing" or whatever they call it. There's a separate T-code for ECU flashing.

[IanVr6]

So much fail in this thread already.

[13S4]

TD1 is "extreme use" or "racing" or whatever they call it. There's a separate T-code for ECU flashing.

You are confused. TD1 is auto flag. T10 is the mysterious "racing one".

[helix139]

Also, at least on the A4, the 2011 and newer models need to have the ECU removed according to APR to get flashed back to stock. Remember, "stock mode" is not the same thing as "stock" and if you go to the dealer in "stock mode" you will probably get caught with TD1

That seems odd. You should be able to flash back to stock through the port at any time because the stock code contains Audi's encryption keys and all the necessary security checks will pass since it is Audi stock code. On the S4, you can flash back to stock through the port, but will need to pull the ECU to flash from stock back to tuned.

[Stereodude]

Didn't Fonzie try that and it was still detected?

[helix139]

Didn't Fonzie try that and it was still detected?

Fonzie also has a pulley and test pipes. With stock hardware and flashed back to stock, it shouldn't be detected.

[Stubek]

I have been to the dealer twice after being flashed back to stock and was not given a TD1 flag.

I was confused about pulling the ECU to flash back to stock, but I called APR and verified that on the 2011 and up, you do.

[helix139]

I have been to the dealer twice after being flashed back to stock and was not given a TD1 flag.

I was confused about pulling the ECU to flash back to stock, but I called APR and verified that on the 2011 and up, you do.

Must be an A4 only thing, as on ours I know for a fact that you can flash back to stock through the port.

[Tyrnnus]

I have been to the dealer twice after being flashed back to stock and was not given a TD1 flag.

I was confused about pulling the ECU to flash back to stock, but I called APR and verified that on the 2011 and up, you do.

Have you required any warranty work to be done? I am still trying to figure out if flashing to stock works but am suspicious that Audi only processess the TD1 flag when a claim is pending. I could be wrong.

[Stubek]

Have you required any warranty work to be done? I am still trying to figure out if flashing to stock works but am suspicious that Audi only processess the TD1 flag when a claim is pending. I could be wrong.

Once was my 15k service/Oil Consumption Part 1 and once was for a CEL/Airbag light which was the passenger side airbag.
In both cases, they had to plug in, scan the car. The scan automatically detects engine tunes now and automatically flags the car's file TD1. This is automatic, the dealer cannot prevent this or remove the TD1. There are two very long threads about this.

[gringoloco2000]

I think there has been plenty of evidence that Audi can tell if you have tampered with the CPU regardless of flashing back to stock by your tuner or putting in stock mode. They will know. Whether it is a checksum, some sort of hash or keys, they will know. I think MTM is the only piggy back out there and the gains are probably not worth it. Stasis v2 might be the way to go if you want a warranty. Of course you pay for that.

[holywater]

Any of the tunes can easily be reflashed to stock at your tune dealer before taking it into the dealership. They can then be reflashed on-site after your service is performed.

Usually the software tuning dealers charge between $50-100+ to reflash when the dealer flashes your car back to stock during service visits and warranty service visits.

I bought a 2013 335i xDrive with manual transmission. I plugged in a VERY simple plug and play kit by Berger and I love the NEW POWER of my 335i xDrive. From the factory its nice but this plug and play tune is really awesome. Best part is that I can unplug in minutes. Never have to waste time going back and forth to tuning shop to reflash etc...who has time to do that lol

[Stubek]

Usually the software tuning dealers charge between $50-100+ to reflash when the dealer flashes your car back to stock during service visits and warranty service visits.

I bought a 2013 335i xDrive with manual transmission. I plugged in a VERY simple plug and play kit by Berger and I love the NEW POWER of my 335i xDrive. From the factory its nice but this plug and play tune is really awesome. Best part is that I can unplug in minutes. Never have to waste time going back and forth to tuning shop to reflash etc...who has time to do that lol

There are kits like the one you mention, but the problem with those kits is they usually just elevate certain parameters across the board and don't take very much into account for their changes. The more complex tuners such as APR, GIAC, Stasis, etc really get into the software code of the ECU and understand that code to create a much more reliable program.

[SwankPeRFection]

From the looks of it the Burger stuff is just a piggyback system. Piggybacks suck big time. What we need is a flash based system with a plug in device, kind of similar to the COBB AP, but honestly, I'd be happy with just a cable and the need to use a laptop instead. I'd have no problem with a system that required these two components and then access to a web based backend at APR or GIAC to allow for the tuning changes and were locked to VIN, etc. for security an anti-pirating purposes. Problem is, neither tuner wants to do this because they'll cannibalize their dealer network or they're scared the end user will make mistakes.... not like mistakes haven't been made at the dealer level and those same dealers have been completely clueless on how to fix things when they do go belly up, so ya... whatever.

[ddillenger]

The ecu has a flash counter stored in the serial eeprom. It records how many programming attempts have been made, and how many times the ecu has been flashed. Just returning it back to stock isn't sufficient to avoid detection.

[holywater]

I don't really care about detection. What I care about is the time you have to spend going to the tuning shop wait for the tuner to reflash and paying up for the reflash over and over.

I don't race my car so a generic tune with decent power gains is fine with me. It works great on my BMW and I would like the convenience of that capability on my AudiS'

[apexit1]

JB is a piggy back and has 500+whp cars...

[dangerous_dave7]

I don't really care about detection. What I care about is the time you have to spend going to the tuning shop wait for the tuner to reflash and paying up for the reflash over and over.

I don't race my car so a generic tune with decent power gains is fine with me. It works great on my BMW and I would like the convenience of that capability on my AudiS'

If you don't care about detection why would you bring the car in to have it reflashed in the first place...?

[saxon]

From the looks of it the Burger stuff is just a piggyback system. Piggybacks suck big time. What we need is a flash based system with a plug in device, kind of similar to the COBB AP, but honestly, I'd be happy with just a cable and the need to use a laptop instead. I'd have no problem with a system that required these two components and then access to a web based backend at APR or GIAC to allow for the tuning changes and were locked to VIN, etc. for security an anti-pirating purposes. Problem is, neither tuner wants to do this because they'll cannibalize their dealer network or they're scared the end user will make mistakes.... not like mistakes haven't been made at the dealer level and those same dealers have been completely clueless on how to fix things when they do go belly up, so ya... whatever.

I would love for cobb to bring out an access port for this car. For the BMW 335 they are the most expensive yet they could keep that price point and be the cheapest, not to mention we wouldn't have to pay $500 for a $100 pulley

I get excuses that security could change when asking apr/giac about a home flashing option. Yet that would be the same problem with their dealers... They don't want to do it based upon the monopoly they have and the fees they get away with

[BoostEasy]

JB is a piggy back and has 500+whp cars...

Lol. I think some people tend to get confused/optimistic about can be done vs what actually gets done with both flash and piggyback systems. i.e. just because a vendor has a level of skill and ECU access necessary to do something doesn't necessarily mean they will spend the man hours to give you something you want. In other words, what's in it for them. You want custom maps for the 3.0TFSI? Um ok. Maybe later.

Re Burger tunes for the BMWs, Terry is tireless car nut who enjoys immensely what he does and if enough people ask him for something, he'll build it. Usually pretty quickly and for not a lot of $. The N63/S63 tune still in beta for the 550/M5/M6 is a good example. For a few hundred bucks these cars make sick amounts of power. Terry didn't want to do the tune initially but enough people asked for it and he cranked out the first one in days when someone came by with a 550i. Now there are M5/M6 laying down 600WHP and knocking on 10s with a $500 tune (and downpipes and good fuel).

Cobb for BMW is fantastic but the N55 guys just got it and they waited literally 3 years for it from the first n55 release. My own n55 335xi lease came and went before it was released, and it doesn't make even the HP the JB4 does yet, doesn't have access to valvetronic yet. Yadda, yadda. Yes it's nice to flash via OBD but a lot of people move on from a car after 3 years.

I'd kill to have Cobb or Burger work on the 3.0 TFSI but they both seem to have zero interest in it.

[saxon]

As far as time frame goes this motor had been sold since early 2009, going on 5 years and imo no real innovation with this chassis

A tuning solution "suite" would make this motor/chassis come alive with people tuning for meth/e85 nitrous etc

[apexit1]

Not sure if you're agreeing with me or not but if you aren't my brother has a n54 with RB turbos running e85. He should be around mid 400's as is and can still add meth.

[SwankPeRFection]

I would love for cobb to bring out an access port for this car. For the BMW 335 they are the most expensive yet they could keep that price point and be the cheapest, not to mention we wouldn't have to pay $500 for a $100 pulley

I get excuses that security could change when asking apr/giac about a home flashing option. Yet that would be the same problem with their dealers... They don't want to do it based upon the monopoly they have and the fees they get away with

They are both monopolizing assholes, what more do you expect? All they do is make shit up to make it seem like it's impossible simply because they're happy living life on the hog. Sooner or later their reign will end.

[S4morris]

I had the JB on my 335 and was extremely pleased. Easy to put in and take out and the gains were excellent. All for around 300 bucks.

[Stereodude]

They are both monopolizing assholes, what more do you expect? All they do is make shit up to make it seem like it's impossible simply because they're happy living life on the hog. Sooner or later their reign will end.

And yet every time another option appears the new guy gets chased off the forum.

[SwankPeRFection]

And yet every time another option appears the new guy gets chased off the forum.

Ya, by the minions of these tuners. Regardless, nothing concrete has ever come out for the new platforms outside of some other tuners offering a flash which they wouldn't back with actual numbers. No one wants a piggyback, but they'll take a user flashable solution in my opinion even if no concrete numbers are released. It would be a step in the right direction because as it sits now, these tuners are losing business from those that don't want to deal with TD1 and don't think they should be paying some shop to flash them back to stock before every dealer visit. It's not time very time conscious and certainly a monetary burden to burn $50-$100 each time you need to get flashed. Times are changing, sooner or later these tuners will have to change with it or lose sales.

[BoostEasy]

I had the JB on my 335 and was extremely pleased. Easy to put in and take out and the gains were excellent. All for around 300 bucks.

I have two JB4s from my old 335s I'm trying to sell right now, lol. They worked great. Bang for the buck, easy to remove, no warranty BS.

[dangerous_dave7]

Is the S4 ECU more complex than the 335 or anything like that? Just trying to make sense of why nothing like this exists for the S4 while it exists for other similar cars (335), outside of the "monopolizing" or whatever was already mentioned above... Sorry if thats a dumb question!
Thanks

[BoostEasy]

Is the S4 ECU more complex than the 335 or anything like that? Just trying to make sense of why nothing like this exists for the S4 while it exists for other similar cars (335), outside of the "monopolizing" or whatever was already mentioned above... Sorry if thats a dumb question!
Thanks

I doubt the simos ecu is any more complex than the modern BMW. The n55 ecu took 3 full years for cobb just to figure out enough tables and table relationships to make it useful and its still not fully understood. Valvetronic tables among others are not usable yet. So if anything, I'd say its at least as complex as simos but that's just a guess.

A piggyback or flash tune is only going to be as useful as the effort put into developing it. If you get a vendor who just wants to whip out something to make a quick buck, it's not going to be that impressive. The 335s saw those too at first. At least 2 lame piggybacks, then came procede piggyback and juice box, then the moderate flash tunes and finally cobb which changed the landscape considerably.

The reason the JB4 works so well for the turbo BMWs is because of tireless dedication of the guy that tunes it. He's not trying to run a large co with many different platforms and models requiring him to ration time into each one. It's a small niche product that keeps one guy really busy and he has a few helpers doing odds and ends and running the store. And that's apparently how he likes it. If you're interested, spend some time on the n54/n55 bmw forums. It's always good to keep an eye on what the competition is doing (audizine got me into in S5 from two 335s, lol).

To summarize, yes a piggyback probably could work well with the 3.0 TFSI, but it needs a lot of development time and someone has to want to put those resources into it which is risk and $. Burger and Cobb both seem to have an aversion to VAG stuff so we're out of luck there unless someone gets them or someone like them to change their minds. The other option could be for us as a group just to pound on APR and GIAC to get them to offer a flash at home solution like cobb AP. It's a big $ investment for them to be sure but prob less than developing the TVS 1740 I'd guess. And infinitely more useful to the platform for people of all levels.

[dangerous_dave7]

Thanks for the explanation BoostEasy!

[raudiace4]

If there ever is a piggyback tune like the BMWs have JB4 for our 3.0ts, sign me up.

[SwankPeRFection]

I doubt the simos ecu is any more complex than the modern BMW. The n55 ecu took 3 full years for cobb just to figure out enough tables and table relationships to make it useful and its still not fully understood. Valvetronic tables among others are not usable yet. So if anything, I'd say its at least as complex as simos but that's just a guess.

A piggyback or flash tune is only going to be as useful as the effort put into developing it. If you get a vendor who just wants to whip out something to make a quick buck, it's not going to be that impressive. The 335s saw those too at first. At least 2 lame piggybacks, then came procede piggyback and juice box, then the moderate flash tunes and finally cobb which changed the landscape considerably.

The reason the JB4 works so well for the turbo BMWs is because of tireless dedication of the guy that tunes it. He's not trying to run a large co with many different platforms and models requiring him to ration time into each one. It's a small niche product that keeps one guy really busy and he has a few helpers doing odds and ends and running the store. And that's apparently how he likes it. If you're interested, spend some time on the n54/n55 bmw forums. It's always good to keep an eye on what the competition is doing (audizine got me into in S5 from two 335s, lol).

To summarize, yes a piggyback probably could work well with the 3.0 TFSI, but it needs a lot of development time and someone has to want to put those resources into it which is risk and $. Burger and Cobb both seem to have an aversion to VAG stuff so we're out of luck there unless someone gets them or someone like them to change their minds. The other option could be for us as a group just to pound on APR and GIAC to get them to offer a flash at home solution like cobb AP. It's a big $ investment for them to be sure but prob less than developing the TVS 1740 I'd guess. And infinitely more useful to the platform for people of all levels.

How do you suggest we accomplish that? Everyone that wants to get flashed to or back to stock pull their ECU and send it to APR? Insist that they flash it instead of using their dealers? Or perhaps refuse to pay to get flashed back to stock when needed insisting that we were all mislead by the idea that the flash was undetectable by Audi and now all of a sudden that's not true anymore? As long as people pay their dealers money to flash, this will never change. It's obvious these two tuners have no goals to bring this sort of thing to market and unless their pocketbooks get hit, they won't change.

[mmmkam]

How do you suggest we accomplish that? Everyone that wants to get flashed to or back to stock pull their ECU and send it to APR? Insist that they flash it instead of using their dealers? Or perhaps refuse to pay to get flashed back to stock when needed insisting that we were all mislead by the idea that the flash was undetectable by Audi and now all of a sudden that's not true anymore? As long as people pay their dealers money to flash, this will never change. It's obvious these two tuners have no goals to bring this sort of thing to market and unless their pocketbooks get hit, they won't change.

While I agree with you it would be nice if maybe they could require an initial flash of a program be done through a dealer to initially register the vehicle with their servers and make sure all goes well then subsequent flashes and updates could be done by the vehicle owner at home with a internet connection to validate the vehicle and flash with APR servers. Something like that would be great and a win win for everyone.

[PurduinaM3]

So much misinformation in this thread...

You guys do realize that Revo offers an SPS device to allow you to flash back to stock on your own, right? It costs money and might not be worth it if you're not going back to stock all the time compared to the minimal fee tuning dealers will charge to reflash the car but it is an option.

As far as pulling the ECU for a tune, KMD Tuning has the Revo flashing tool that you can tune the car right through the OBD2 port without even pulling the ECU. On 2011+ A4/A5's the ECU has to be removed in order to bench flash it, but can be put back to stock via the OBD2 port. It's reflashing it that needs the ECU to be pulled again after you've visited the dealer. This has nothing to do with shops trying to make money, that's just how it works. I know KMD only charges $50 for a reflash (due to the time it takes to pull the ECU) but no charge for going back to stock.

[SwankPeRFection]

So much misinformation in this thread...

You guys do realize that Revo offers an SPS device to allow you to flash back to stock on your own, right? It costs money and might not be worth it if you're not going back to stock all the time compared to the minimal fee tuning dealers will charge to reflash the car but it is an option.

As far as pulling the ECU for a tune, KMD Tuning has the Revo flashing tool that you can tune the car right through the OBD2 port without even pulling the ECU. On 2011+ A4/A5's the ECU has to be removed in order to bench flash it, but can be put back to stock via the OBD2 port. It's reflashing it that needs the ECU to be pulled again after you've visited the dealer. This has nothing to do with shops trying to make money, that's just how it works. I know KMD only charges $50 for a reflash (due to the time it takes to pull the ECU) but no charge for going back to stock.

Talk about misinformation...

The REVO SPS is nothing more than program switching between whatever stages you have set for each dipswitch. It DOES NOT flash you back to stock and then to any of the other stages. It's no different than GIAC's hand held switcher and APR's cruise control switcher. It's the same concept.

Also, supposedly, the initial REVO bench flashes were required because they had to unlock the onboard flash via bench flashing and in their case removal of and resoldering of the flash chip to allow for this. Since then, they've apparently found a way to just OBD2 port flash, but whatever.

Regardless, your info is incorrect.