Bad throwout bearing?

[SleeperAvant]

Hey Guys, my car won't shift into gear while the engine is running and car is stationary. I did a search and what I've found is that if the clutch pedal vibrates it points towards bad throwout bearings. My clutch pedal definitely pulses when I lightly rest my foot on it.

I checked fluid level and it is above minimum, no fluid leaks.

Anyone can concur if these symptoms are typical of welded / failed TOBs?

Clutch is a southbend OFE SS with OEM dual-mass flywheel.

[travrach]

Do you have any noises- Clutch in or out? Is clutch pedal soft or get stuck down?

[SleeperAvant]

No noises that I can hear, especially noises that would overcome the loud exhaust noise. Pedal travel feels normal, no stickyness or slow release. Tension effort feels the same.

[MikTip]

The main troubleshooting issue with clutchs is ya really dont know for certain of whats wrong until the gearbox is pulled and the clutch components can be visually inspected.

[SleeperAvant]

Yeah, it's going to have to come out.

[supasteve66]

not to thread jack but I hear a chatter when the car is in neutral and the clutch is not depressed.....once i press the clutch in it goes away....is that the throwout bearing?

[travrach]

Yeah, it's going to have to come out.

Just wanted make sure you don't have a hydo issue- brake fluid level is good i take it..shared with clutch. Kinda sounds like maybe pressure plate issue.

not to thread jack but I hear a chatter when the car is in neutral and the clutch is not depressed.....once i press the clutch in it goes away....is that the throwout bearing?

If the noise goes away with the clutch depressed, then it isn't the throw out bearing. Most likely the input bearing on the trans.
Throw out spins when you push clutch down.

[SleeperAvant]

Just wanted make sure you don't have a hydo issue- brake fluid level is good i take it..shared with clutch. Kinda sounds like maybe pressure plate issue.

Yeah the fluid level is fine. Could be a number of things until it comes out I guess, pressure plate fingers broken / clutch fork bent / throw out bearing toast / clutch disc material separated.

[travrach]

Sounds like you have new weekend plans!

[seanf86]

Just wanted make sure you don't have a hydo issue- brake fluid level is good i take it..shared with clutch. Kinda sounds like maybe pressure plate issue.



If the noise goes away with the clutch depressed, then it isn't the throw out bearing. Most likely the input bearing on the trans.
Throw out spins when you push clutch down.

throwout bearing spins all the time, when you put more pressure on the bearing by pressing the clutch pedal and the noise going away usually means the throwout bearing is making noise.

OP check your clutch slave, I have the issue where its hard to get in gear if I'm full stopped, and I'm betting its my slave, it also makes a creaking noise when the cars off and I push the clutch

[old guy]

Sure sounds familiar. I know of at least three other incidences of this happening with the SB-OFS SS: Clicky click

[nein-reis]

I bet its the clutch, especially after you partially fused it once already.

[SleeperAvant]

Yeah, I fear for the worst right now.

[old guy]

Yeah, I fear for the worst right now.

Does your clutch drag with the pedal fully depressed but engage about half way up?

[SleeperAvant]

No drag. Engagement point is still closer to the bottom of the stroke.

[old guy]

Hey Guys, my car won't shift into gear while the engine is running and car is stationary.

Clutch is a southbend OFE SS with OEM dual-mass flywheel.

If you can't get it in gear the clutch is dragging.

[SleeperAvant]

So it is. Car doesn't creep forward when in gear and clutch fully depressed.

[itsmatt33]

I bet its the clutch, especially after you partially fused it once already.

this is exactly what happened to me. wouldnt shift into gear and the clutch was fused.

[itsmatt33]

put it in gear with the car off. then turn it on from there with foot on gas and clutch. tell me what happens.

[old guy]

So it is. Car doesn't creep forward when in gear and clutch fully depressed.

Its dragging enough that you can't engage it but not enough to move the car. I suspect you are experiencing the same issue I had. The fork is bent. It is only going to get worse (quickly). I would suggest replacing the fork and all the associated hardware (Pivot block, spring, etc).

[SleeperAvant]

^^ Yeah old guy, I tried bleeding the slave, same issue. I started the car in 1st gear, put my foot on the clutch pedal and gas pedal, car doesn't lurch forward. I figured if the transmission has to come out, might as well replace the whole clutch assembly and/or clutch fork. Waiting on an FX400 6-puck ceramic from M-Hood.

[SleeperAvant]

Here is a video of what sounds to me like a dragging clutch disc. No loose exhaust or heatshields, which have been checked already.

[old guy]

I suspect your clutch disc may be coming apart. Sounds like it's time to remove the tranny. When you replace the clutch I would highly recommend replacing the fork and all associated attachment hardware due to the forces the SS pressure plate has applied to all the components.

Good luck!

[SleeperAvant]

Thanks old guy, that's the plan.

[SleeperAvant]

old guy, so I would need parts 5, 6, 7 & 8 in this ETKA diagram for the clutch fork and associated hardware?

[old guy]

old guy, so I would need parts 5, 6, 7 & 8 in this ETKA diagram for the clutch fork and associated hardware?

Yep. That's what I replaced. All four parts came to $65.

[SleeperAvant]

Yep. That's what I replaced. All four parts came to $65.

Done, ordered. Thanks again.

[M-Hood]

If you can't get it in gear the clutch is dragging.

That can be a cause, but it comes down to something causing the input shaft to spin when it shouldn't be. There are a few different things that can cause the disk to drag, things like a bad TOB, a PP that is not fully releasing , the disk is not sliding smoothly on the spline of the input shaft or a bent fork which actually doesn't happen all that often on the 01A.

Other things that can cause the input shaft to spin while pushing the clutch in is a failing pilot bearing and crank walk but I haven't seen any 1.8t's having crank walk issues.

Creaking noise when pushing the pedal in with the motor of tends to be a bad pressure plate, a pulsing pedal is usually bad bearing pack inside the TOB.


I have actually been battling this same issue on my car ever since I put in a new custom TOB when my old one pretty much exploded at Dubfest last year. I think my issue is that the TOB isn't as tall as my old one and not pushing the PP down far enough since the fork is not traveling as far as it used to because of the change in fork angle. I put in a brand new fork since the old one was slightly bent but it did not change a thing.


BTW when getting a new fork it isn't really nessary to buy anything else since the plastic pivot ball and clip can be reused. Only time you would need to replace those is if the broke.

[SleeperAvant]

BTW when getting a new fork it isn't really nessary to buy anything else since the plastic pivot ball and clip can be reused. Only time you would need to replace those is if the broke.

It's alright since those little parts were literally like $2.00 each.

[old guy]

I have actually been battling this same issue on my car ever since I put in a new custom TOB when my old one pretty much exploded at Dubfest last year. I think my issue is that the TOB isn't as tall as my old one and not pushing the PP down far enough since the fork is not traveling as far as it used to because of the change in fork angle. I put in a brand new fork since the old one was slightly bent but it did not change a thing.

I agree with you Mike that the dragging doesn't have to only be from the clutch fork. Any of the clutch components can cause the issue and different components will exhibit different symptoms and pretty much all of them that meet Steve's symptoms are going to require removing the transmission.

Your problem, on the other hand, should be a relatively easy fix. Just pull out the slave cylinder and put an 1/8" spacer under each of the slave rod caps and I'm betting your problem will go away.

[M-Hood]

I agree with you Mike that the dragging doesn't have to only be from the clutch fork. Any of the clutch components can cause the issue and different components will exhibit different symptoms and pretty much all of them that meet Steve's symptoms are going to require removing the transmission.

Your problem, on the other hand, should be a relatively easy fix. Just pull out the slave cylinder and put an 1/8" spacer under each of the slave rod caps and I'm betting your problem will go away.

Tried that long time ago when I first put in the new TOB and it did not fix the issue which means the TOB is more then a few thousands of a inch to short. I need to drop the transmission and take out the TOB so I can measure it and give that info to CM so they can machine me a taller TOB top for me. I think that is the best way to fix my issue vs me making a custom adjustable rod and adjusting it till the issue goes away. It only takes me about 30 minutes to drop the transmission, problem is that it is about 110-115 here every day and even in the middle of the night it is still nearly 90 degs. Pretty soon I am going to need to buy a AC or swamp cooler for my garage. lol

BTW I think I might take my clutch out and put the transmission back in just to figure out if something else is catching causing the input shaft to spin. I have already replaced the pilot bearing a few times and have tested the one in there now a bunch of times using this transmission and my test bell housing.

[old guy]

Tried that long time ago when I first put in the new TOB and it did not fix the issue which means the TOB is more then a few thousands of a inch to short. I need to drop the transmission and take out the TOB so I can measure it and give that info to CM so they can machine me a taller TOB top for me. I think that is the best way to fix my issue vs me making a custom adjustable rod and adjusting it till the issue goes away. It only takes me about 30 minutes to drop the transmission, problem is that it is about 110-115 here every day and even in the middle of the night it is still nearly 90 degs. Pretty soon I am going to need to buy a AC or swamp cooler for my garage. lol

Hell, I'd just go with a longer spacer. Either way you are just making up the difference in the stack height. Plus it would be a lot quicker and easier. Literally just remove one bolt

[M-Hood]

Hell, I'd just go with a longer spacer. Either way you are just making up the difference in the stack height. Plus it would be a lot quicker and easier. Literally just remove one bolt

yes both ways make up the difference in stack height but you dont end up with the same results. This is because going with the longer rod still leaves the fork in the same location, while a taller TOB moves the fork back toward the slave. The further away the fork is the less the TOB travels since the fork is at a higher angle, this is why it is so important to have the correct stack height for the over all clutch setup. When your running a PP with 3600 lbs clamping load you what maximum TOB travel.

My fork might be at an angle where the TOB just isn't going to travel far enough to release the disk completely even if I put a longer rod, plus the longer rod might end up making the slave piston to bottom out causing the PP fingers to get pushed in slightly and reducing the clamping load to the point that the clutch might slip when pushing the car hard while making 600+whp.

[old guy]

I respectively disagree. The TOB rest on the pressure plate fingers so the TOB travel is going to remain the same whether you extend the face of the TOB or the length of the rod. The only thing changing is the relative position of the fork. Extending either one will have the same end result.

Edit: Apparently you were adding to your comments at the same time I was responding. I agree that if your TOB is short enough you may not be able to get enough travel out of the slave cylinder without bottoming out the slave cylinder on the back end. But that would have to be a pretty short TOB. I can see why you want to go ahead and pull it out for a closer inspection.

[M-Hood]

I respectively disagree. The TOB rest on the pressure plate fingers so the TOB travel is going to remain the same whether you extend the face of the TOB or the length of the rod. The only thing changing is the relative position of the fork. Extending either one will have the same end result.

Edit: Apparently you were adding to your comments at the same time I was responding. I agree that if your TOB is short enough you may not be able to get enough travel out of the slave cylinder without bottoming out the slave cylinder on the back end. But that would have to be a pretty short TOB. I can see why you want to go ahead and pull it out for a closer inspection.

Well you have to take into account that the TOB pivots on the fork as the fork is being pushed and does that so that the face of the TOB is always flat with the PP fingers. So you actually have 2 changing angles happening as the slave pushes the fork. Only time the TOB and fork are at the same angle to each other is when the fork is perfectly flat with the bell housing at the closest point to the slave.

Another good reason to have the fork as close to the slave as possible is the fact that the further away the fork moves the higher the rod end to fork angle becomes, increasing the chance of the rod popping out of the fork at full extension.

[SleeperAvant]

UPDATE

Got the new clutch in from M-Hood, the Southbend OFE SS clutch disc on the pressure plate side was okay, but on the flywheel side it was all deeply scored up. The OEM DMFW was all fucked up too, totally destroyed and would not damp anything at all, which would explain the noise. The clutch fork and associated parts were fine, but we replaced it with new anyways. The original release bearing was fine also, but replaced that with new one from CM.





The FX400 clutch pedal is super soft compared to the Southbend, it's crazy how big a difference there is now. The 6-puck ceramic disc definitely grabs hard, so it takes some driving style change for sure. Engine revs up more freely thanks to the 240mm billet flywheel, but chatter noise is also present, just something to get used to. Installed a JHM solid delrin bushing and boy does the shifter feel more positive. Throws are back to OEM smoothness too.