B5 S4 BOSE amp bypass

[winreboot]

Need help from the Audio gurus. I replaced my head unit to Pioneer AVIC-X940BT on a bose system that I have. What I notice right a way the sound was crisper and good but all the low end bass was gone that bose used to provide. With little EQ, I got it where I want it but it's just ok, next step is to replace all speakers. I already replaced the front speakers to Pioneer TS-D1302R and will continue with the rest, finishing it with 10" bazooka in trunk. I know that bose does it's own filtering and I know I will be missing the full potential of what the system could sound like if I keep the bose amp. The head unit already sends out much powerful signal then oem, and just need to pair it with the speakers by-passing the bose amp.

Question: How can I by-pass the bose amp in trunk? There must be cables going IN and OUT form it, does anyone have diagram? (don't want to run all new wires from all speakers as they are wired already) I'm thinking to by-pass the bose amp one would just loop the cables from one plug to the other and to run after market amp just take the plug IN's route them to new amp and then take OUT's back to the old plug.




Maybe someone already upgraded their Audio.

Any help appreciated!

Thanks,

[924Carrera]

Need help from the Audio gurus. I replaced my head unit to Pioneer AVIC-X940BT on a bose system that I have. What I notice right a way the sound was crisper and good but all the low end bass was gone that bose used to provide. With little EQ, I got it where I want it but it's just ok, next step is to replace all speakers. I already replaced the front speakers to Pioneer TS-D1302R and will continue with the rest, finishing it with 10" bazooka in trunk. I know that bose does it's own filtering and I know I will be missing the full potential of what the system could sound like if I keep the bose amp. The head unit already sends out much powerful signal then oem, and just need to pair it with the speakers by-passing the bose amp.

Question: How can I by-pass the bose amp in trunk? There must be cables going IN and OUT form it, does anyone have diagram? (don't want to run all new wires from all speakers as they are wired already) I'm thinking to by-pass the bose amp one would just loop the cables from one plug to the other and to run after market amp just take the plug IN's route them to new amp and then take OUT's back to the old plug.




Maybe someone already upgraded their Audio.

Any help appreciated!

Thanks,

Do you have the wiring diagrams for the factory Bose audio? I do, and I think that having them would make it pretty easy to figure out. If you need help with that let me know. I don't know the specific method offhand however.

[somebody5788]

If you bypass the amp then you need to replace the speakers as well. The Bose speakers are 2 ohm where as your head unit is made for 4 ohm speakers. At that point you might as well wire them straight to the head unit with better wire anyways.

I don't know why anyone would switch from Bose to a Pioneer though, I've never had a single bad thing said about the Bose system even from my musician friends, in fact they praise it more then anyone else. The unit provides amazing clarity with CD's or when coupled with a bluetooth/ auxiliary input.

[beemercer]

fwiw, I did something similar after the bose amp in my B6 died, I'd think you could do the same with the B5 amp

Here's my little aftermarket amp integration project, it lets you replace the stock bose amp with an aftermarket unit. I used a Hifonics ZXi 4406 4 channel amp that'll provide 110W x4 channels at 2ohm.

UPDATE

So I finally got everything working and decided I'd post up my wiring harness diagram.

First I started with this diagram for the bose amp:


After figuring out where everything goes you have this:


So the next step is to get that connector from the amp so you can wire everything into the car, unfortunately you have to cut it out of the amp since I can't find a source for them:


Next wire in all your leads:


Then hook it in there:


Hook everything up and make sure it's working:


Box up the little wiring harness:


And install it in there:

[winreboot]

If you bypass the amp then you need to replace the speakers as well. The Bose speakers are 2 ohm where as your head unit is made for 4 ohm speakers. At that point you might as well wire them straight to the head unit with better wire anyways.

I don't know why anyone would switch from Bose to a Pioneer though, I've never had a single bad thing said about the Bose system even from my musician friends, in fact they praise it more then anyone else. The unit provides amazing clarity with CD's or when coupled with a bluetooth/ auxiliary input.

I love the bose audio. On my home PC I use bose Companion 5, have bose headphones and use TV bose surround theater system. I think the sound is awesome on bose speakers and I'm big big fan. I'm very picky where it comes to audio..

But B5 is dated a little inside (in my opinion) and upgrading head unit makes a more pleasant drive. Pioneer build appradio mimics iphone screen and compatible apps are displayed on screen like dash command etc.. that using kiwi wifi ODBII will display gauges in the LCD. There are cool LFA like gauge clusters for it, very cool etc... This also comes with swarm of up to date features that are standard in this date and time. (I'm just justifying my purchase I guess, lol)

My goal is to replace entire system with all speakers and add new amp. (all of this trying to stay on low budget) One thing for sure it will be much louder and with deep bass, and the EQ on Pioneer is vgood in my opinion. (I like the mic it comes with for Auto EQ, it listens and adjust for inside acoustics.. still no bose) I'm thinking the IN and OUT has to be going to the rear bose amp somehow and it can be looped back to by pass it.

If anyone went through this audio overhaul on their B5 let me know how you did it.

924Carrera - send you PM

Thanks!

[winreboot]

beemercer Oh, this is exactly what I had in mind!!! just don't know if the B5 bose amp has the same pin outs.

[924Carrera]

PM returned.

I am currently using a Pioneer head unit with the stock Bose amp and speakers. The subs don't kick as hard as my old JL, but I didn't feel like rewiring the car, and was actually quite pleasantly surprised by the stock audio. But a head unit replacement is a good option; I think people were wondering about why you wanted to replace the amp, but my guess would be simply that it is not as powerful as a modern standalone amp.

Anyway, I will try to get those diagrams to you soon.

[winreboot]

Got it.

Here are some pictures for reference of the bose amp sitting in trunk :)



closeup of the pins on bose amp in the trunk

[infinkc]

Honestly I would just run new speaker wires. The doors are super easy to get wires into. If you bypass the amp your technically using double the length of wire. Better yet is just to wire a new amp in and run all new wires to the speakers.

[winreboot]

True, running new wires would work too.

This forum rocks!! (thx Alex) I was able to figure this out. It's simpler then I thought.

Here is the 25pin out on the bose amp. Now just have to take the IN's and jump them to OUT's. Will test it this weekend. My other speakers are not coming till mid next week so I'll just prep.


1 -> Center mid/high range loudspeaker (+)
2 -> Center mid/high range loudspeaker (-)
6 -> Line output - Ground (GND) (from Radio)
7 -> Line output - right rear (from Radio)
8 -> Line output - left rear (from Radio)
9 -> Line output - right front (from Radio)
10 -> Line output - left front (from Radio)
11 -> Ground (GND) (terminal 31)
13 -> Battery B+ (terminal 30)
14 -> Bass loudspeaker (+)
15 -> Bass loudspeaker (-)
16 -> Loudspeaker (-) left front
17 -> Loudspeaker (+) left front
18 -> Loudspeaker (+) right front
19 -> Loudspeaker (-) right front
20 -> Loudspeaker (+) left rear
21 -> Loudspeaker (-) left rear
22 -> Loudspeaker (+) right rear
23 -> Loudspeaker (-) right rear
25 -> Switched positive

[ss4]

True, running new wires would work too.

This forum rocks!! (thx Alex) I was able to figure this out. It's simpler then I thought.

Here is the 25pin out on the bose amp. Now just have to take the IN's and jump them to OUT's. Will test it this weekend. My other speakers are not coming till mid next week so I'll just prep.


1 -> Center mid/high range loudspeaker (+)
2 -> Center mid/high range loudspeaker (-)
6 -> Line output - Ground (GND) (from Radio)
7 -> Line output - right rear (from Radio)
8 -> Line output - left rear (from Radio)
9 -> Line output - right front (from Radio)
10 -> Line output - left front (from Radio)
11 -> Ground (GND) (terminal 31)
13 -> Battery B+ (terminal 30)
14 -> Bass loudspeaker (+)
15 -> Bass loudspeaker (-)
16 -> Loudspeaker (-) left front
17 -> Loudspeaker (+) left front
18 -> Loudspeaker (+) right front
19 -> Loudspeaker (-) right front
20 -> Loudspeaker (+) left rear
21 -> Loudspeaker (-) left rear
22 -> Loudspeaker (+) right rear
23 -> Loudspeaker (-) right rear
25 -> Switched positive

Are you looking at the numbers on the connector or did you number them yourself. The reason I ask is there was another thread with different info...see below. And you said center speaker? And only 2 wires out of the amp for the 2 rear deck subs?


http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...nstall+problem
from obijohn22
"Amp is located on driver side rear strut tower"
25 pin plug
Top row has 12 pins, bottom 13
1.White Remote on
2.Brown Ground
3.Grey/Brown Right middle door +
4.Grey/Blue Right middle door -
5.Grey Left middle door +
6.Grey/Yellow Left middle door -
7.Green/Brown Right front door +
8.Green/Blue Right front door -
9.Green Left front door +
10.Green/Yellow Left front door -
11.Grey Left rear deck +
12.Grey/Yellow Left rear deck -
13.Red/Blue +12V
14.N/A
15.N/A
16.Grey Left front + (line level)
17.Yellow Right front + (line level)
18.Green Left rear + (line level)
19.White Right rear + (line level)
20.Brown Common - (line level)
21.N/A
22.N/A
23.N/A
24.Grey/Brown Right rear deck +
25.Grey/Blue Right rear deck -

[ss4]

Does anyone have the schematic to post up? Only about 10 or so of these pins seem to match up correctly

[924Carrera]

David,

Not to question your judgment, but out of curiosity from the other posting I looked over those diagrams I sent you and got a slightly different pinout:

1 -> Right subwoofer (+) (deck speaker) - GRAY W/ BLUE TRACER
2 -> Right subwoofer (-) (deck speaker) - GRAY W/ BROWN TRACER
3 -> N/A
4 -> N/A
5 -> N/A
6 -> From stereo - BROWN
7 -> From stereo - WHITE
8 -> From stereo - GREEN
9 -> From stereo - YELLOW
10 -> From stereo - GRAY
11 -> N/A
12 -> N/A
13 -> Ignition power - RED W/ BLUE TRACER
14 -> Left subwoofer (+) (deck speaker) - GRAY W/ YELLOW TRACER
15 -> Left subwoofer (-) (deck speaker) - GRAY
16 -> Left front bass/midrange driver (-) (door speaker) - GREEN W/ YELLOW TRACER
17 -> Left front bass/midrange driver (+) (door speaker) - GREEN
18 -> Right front bass/midrange driver (+) (door speaker) - GREEN W/ BLUE TRACER
19 -> Right front bass/midrange driver (-) (door speaker) - GREEN W/ BROWN TRACER
20 -> Left rear midrange driver (+) (door speaker) - GRAY W/ YELLOW TRACER
21 -> Left rear midrange driver (-) (door speaker) - GRAY
22 -> Right rear midrange driver (+) (door speaker) - GRAY W/ BLUE TRACER
23 -> Right rear midrange driver (-) (door speaker) - GRAY W/ BROWN TRACER
24 -> Ground - BROWN
25 -> From stereo - WHITE

I'm not sure where the center speaker came into play. However I haven't personally looked at my amp so I don't know if everything matches.

[924Carrera]

Does anyone have the schematic to post up? Only about 10 or so of these pins seem to match up correctly

I have the schematic and just posted from it but I can't upload it until I get home tonight.

[924Carrera]

Hey, hey, our two pinouts match, just flip your list upside down. I wrote the pin numbers straight off the schematic.

The more I compare these lists the more I realize they are basically the same, it's just right rear sub as opposed to center speaker.

[Malmhead]

I don't know why anyone would switch from Bose to a Pioneer though, I've never had a single bad thing said about the Bose system even from my musician friends, in fact they praise it more then anyone else. The unit provides amazing clarity with CD's or when coupled with a bluetooth/ auxiliary input.

http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html

--
VAST PERFORMANCE is now Motor City European: www.motorcityeuropean.net

[ss4]

Hey, hey, our two pinouts match, just flip your list upside down. I wrote the pin numbers straight off the schematic.

The more I compare these lists the more I realize they are basically the same, it's just right rear sub as opposed to center speaker.

Getting closer: Your list and the list I posted match if flipped but all of the speaker polarity is off except the left front. If yours came from the factory schematic, I will use it as the final word.

I'm wiring in my ARC Audio amp this weekend hopefully

[924Carrera]

I just triple checked the schematic and the polarity I listed is correct. However you could verify this by tracing back from the speakers as they should have the polarity marked on their terminals. Please note that there are one to two connectors somewhere between the wires coming from the amp and the wires going to the speakers, and the wires going to the speakers have a different color after these connectors.

I will upload the schematics tonight for all to see.

Edit: Wow, I re-read this after a while and I must have been a little out of it...

[ss4]

Thanks, I appreciate it. I can always do the "pop test" (using a low voltage battery) with all the speakers to confirm polarity.

[924Carrera]

Scanned at 200 DPI for file size so if you need any clarification let me know.

There are gaps in the numbering because I only included the pages for the sedan with Bose.

[8520]

You can't bypass the amp using existing wiring at the amp alone. The factory Hu sends a low level signal using 4 positives and one shared negative, therefore there are only 5 signal wires at the amp. You could cheat and use the amp turn on as a sixth, but you're still missing 2 wires at that stage.

If you're trying to cheat, run speaker wires to the kicks, and catch your speaker wires there, then jump 4 of the low level wires at the amp to the two rear speaker outputs and connect your rear speaker outputs at the Hu to the low level outputs.

The problem with cheating is that you'd end up using really thin "speaker wire" for half of your run.

Oh, and to the guy that said that his musician friends really liked his Bose factory system... Just because someone is a musician or are in a band, doesn't mean they have an ear for sq.

[bmoreS4]

Anyone completely remove the Bose system in a B5 S4.

I would like to remove everything stock, get a Pioneer DD DVD, rca's back to new amps, monster wire, and new speakers. Using none of the stock speaker or amp wiring.


Anyone have and info?

Thanks!

[infinkc]

Anyone completely remove the Bose system in a B5 S4.

I would like to remove everything stock, get a Pioneer DD DVD, rca's back to new amps, monster wire, and new speakers. Using none of the stock speaker or amp wiring.


Anyone have and info?

Thanks!

Yea it's simple, just don't use any if the existing wire.

Run rcas from the new deck to the new amps, from the new amps run new speaker wire to the doors. Only factory wires you will use are the power, ignition, ground for the new head unit and antenna.

The doors are simple to run wires into.

Very simple.

[bmoreS4]

Yea it's simple, just don't use any if the existing wire.

Run rcas from the new deck to the new amps, from the new amps run new speaker wire to the doors. Only factory wires you will use are the power, ignition, ground for the new head unit and antenna.

The doors are simple to run wires into.

Very simple.

Ok thats what I was thinking but im not a car audio expert so I was making sure.

What about the wiring from the stock headunit to the speakers and amp, can I rip all that out?

[Jeovas19]

I would leave all that there just in Case you ever go back to stock or you decide to sell your car and dont want yo sell the stereo stuff just an idea

[bmoreS4]

I would leave all that there just in Case you ever go back to stock or you decide to sell your car and dont want yo sell the stereo stuff just an idea

Good idea.

Also from looking around it seems I need 4 inch for the front doors and 5.25 inch for the rear doors.

Now can I get sets of components and replace the tweeters as well?

Any suggestions?

[bmoreS4]

bump

[dcc236]

You can't bypass the amp using existing wiring at the amp alone. The factory Hu sends a low level signal using 4 positives and one shared negative, therefore there are only 5 signal wires at the amp. You could cheat and use the amp turn on as a sixth, but you're still missing 2 wires at that stage.

If you're trying to cheat, run speaker wires to the kicks, and catch your speaker wires there, then jump 4 of the low level wires at the amp to the two rear speaker outputs and connect your rear speaker outputs at the Hu to the low level outputs.

The problem with cheating is that you'd end up using really thin "speaker wire" for half of your run.

Oh, and to the guy that said that his musician friends really liked his Bose factory system... Just because someone is a musician or are in a band, doesn't mean they have an ear for sq.

Yes you can bypass the std Bose amp with the std wiring. The Bose amp in the sedan (please note, the Bose setup in the Avant is slightly different with two amps) is essentially a 5-6ch 2-ohm amp running off the head-units 4 channel inputs. 4 channels for the front and rear doors and then low frequencies to the parcel shelf mounted 6.5" woofers come from a combination of the 2 or 4 input channels, just like any other aftermarket 5ch amp.

So if you use the 4 positive (channel) low level signal wires & a combined negative with the 5th line, you can splice in RCA's for input to a good quality aftermarket amplifier/s. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the quality of the speaker wires to the doors used by Audi. The only issue you'll have is to decide where you want to mount your passive crossovers for your aftermarket splits and maybe even run a second set of speaker cables if you want to run active.

However, if it were me, I'd bypass all the std wiring and rewire from the headunit out. It's not that big a job and it is easy to do.

[ss4]

The low level signal from the Bose head unit is VERY noisy with a lot of hiss. I would not recommend connecting that to RCA's and then into an amp. Instead, use a good quality high to low level adapter. Audio Control and Audison make some great products that can take in all 6 high level channels and redistribute the low level perfectly into your aftermarket amp.

[NoLiverLeft]

Is there anything special needed if you just want to change the head unit on the BOSE system? I am planning on upgrading the head unit to add a few modern day convenience items (mainly bluetooth for hands free and audio transfer). It seems to me that all the heavy lifting is done by the BOSE amp. Does that amp require any kind of special signal from the Head Unit or will any modern head unit work? I don't know if the Bose amp is expecting a proprietary signal strength or something.

Essentially, is there any special wiring needed?

Thanks in advance.