S4 cold start squeak, cam tensioners? - see video link

[TQdriver]

The issue: Squeak coming from cold engine @ start up. goes away after several miles, but comes back if the car sits for the day and starts up at the end of the work day. My first guess was serpentine tensioner or one of the accessories. as you will see in the video, popped off the serp belt, started engine, and the squeak is still there! less than 3k miles on the timing belt kit + water pump.

I'm thinking cam tensioners!?!?! they should pump up (oil) instantly right, so what else could it be, the cam chains crossing over the composite tensioner bridges(i dont know what they are called)?
let the theories begin

cold eninge idling, loud squeaking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAU2U...ature=youtu.be
in comparison....
idling for a couple minutes, engine is warming up NO squeak:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzFMx...ature=youtu.be

[AudiNFS]

I don't really hear a squeak?

[TQdriver]

maybe I should also post a video of engine idling after its been warmed/driven for comparison to help note the constant squeaking/rattling in the vid.
im thinking it could be a TB roller prematurely failing. going to pop off the TB covers and check the rollers with stethoscope.

[ALE81]

I have the exact same noise and scenario, goes away after a few moments, then it's back the next day. I have less than 1000 miles on FCP OEM with Gates Racing Belt Full kit, Installed by Audi Technician. Just had it apart a few days ago, looked like t-belt was rubbing on plastic cover, lightly sanded it down. We thought noise went away, came back next day. Somebody has to know what this is?

[ALE81]

TQ, where did you get your parts from?

[TQdriver]

TB kit also from FCP Groton with the blue Gates racing belt. Dont think it is the TB belt rollers cause I took off the plastic belt covers and the squeak is still there. even if the belt was rubbing against the plastic covers I dont think it would make such a high pitched squeak.
Yes, my squeak also goes away after the engine starts to warm (2-3 minutes).... thinking maybe the water pump that is squeaking!? second video posted above for comparison.

[s4ride]

Hey Guys, any resolution to this problem? I have exact same problem, i.e. Gates blue belt squeals, squeaks at start-up in morning for a few minutes. Bought from FCPGroton about a year ago. After 10K miles it hasn't got better or worse. Is the same in winter and summer... otherwise car runs great.

[ALE81]

No change here. I suppose that I feel better knowing you've got 10k on yours without a failure. I do certainly wish that this wasn't an issue. Makes me wonder is this common among gates racing users?

[obijohn22]

sounds like a bad pulley to me for sure. waterpump, or timing belt pulley/tensioner. i would get it fixed asap. Something like that can seize at any moment. Or it may run forever like that but it's too risky IMO. take the timing covers off and start the motor. get a mechanics stethoscope and find which component is making the noise. simple as pie. good luck!

[TQdriver]

First, let me make it clear I am not a mechanic but a DYI'er like most of us.

s4ride -- I recommend stop driving the car immediately to identify the issue and fix it. obijohn22 -- is correct, if you do have a critical TB component starting to fail you are gonna destroy your engine if it lets go (TB will jump cam sprocket teeth) !!!! not trying to scare you, but be aware what you are risking.

The FAILED part was... Timing Belt Tensioner Roller - NTN 078 109 243R OEM (believe part to be made in Japan due to JAPAN being listed on the black seal bearing surface).

This is the part squeaking in my above video and had LESS than 5k miles on it. Good news is FCP Groton (http://www.fcpeuro.com) honored their 1-year parts warrantee. New part shipped to me, removed old part and shipped back for a refund.

start with putting the front clip in service mode, and use 17mm socket breaker bar to release the serp belt. start car and see if the squeak is present or not. If the squeak is gone then the cause is either your serp tensioner roller or one of the serp components (alt, AC clutch pulley etc). If the squeak IS still there, then remove the upper plastic TB covers (you'll need to remove the bi-pipes first, then put back on to start car). you'll also want to remove the power steering pulley so you can see the two TB rollers. buy stethoscope (autozone) to try to determine which roller is squeaking. use WD40 to spray only ONE roller, if still squeaking, spray the other roller. WD should quiet which ever roller is squeaking. If still squeaking could be water pump. post a vid so we can listen and help advise further. keep us posted....

[EuroxS4]

I was gonna say alot of those aftermarket timing belt kits use really shitty rollers.If the rollers have a green or black seal on them stay the fuck away from them!!!OEM seals are brown and made in germany!!I mean the gate timing belt ok i understand supposedly a high performance belt.But when I comes to rollers and tensioners trust me OEM is the only way to go.True youll spend more but youll know its legit.I rather spend couple hundred bucks extra than a couple grand for a rebuild of head or put a useds motor in the car.Just my logic.Glad you got it sorted out.

[TQdriver]

yeah FCP is is a little misleading. The other stationary roller that came in my TB kit has a brown bearing seal.

The individual part title says OEM, but the bearing seal is black like you say.
http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/audi...r-078109243r-1

[EuroxS4]

yeah brown your good black or green no good.It is possible that audi changed to black at some point in the production run but i highly doubt that!!I see these cars everyday! but if its oem it will have a audi rings stamped on it.If it doesnt it could still be from the same manufacturer however that doesnt garantee you anything.I normally just buy all the stuff that has the oem stamps on all their rollers etc.Just my way of doing things.

[Guss]

I would not buy anything as important as a tb kit from FCP Groton. Way to important not to use cheap parts for this car...

[s4ride]

TQ and all, thanks for the feedback. Was trying to motivate myself to dig into this further but at the same time trying to tell myself it was just the Gates belt. I'll get it done and provide feedback.

Interestingly, I'm looking at the original tension roller which has black seals, is marked 078 109 243R, and has the 4 Audi rings logo stamped in the center metal; and the black seal is imprinted NTN Japan! I'm sure this car was factory stock without a belt change. I bought it at 45K and did the work at 90K. It looked like it hadn't been touched. It's a 2001.5. I work with German engineers and am surprised that they would OEM bearings from Japan; but honestly I have no problem with Japanese parts. I'm just trying to stay away from Chinese parts!

I too was worried about timing chain tensioners because I replaced the gaskets and half-plugs. Then I tried adding some water wetter for extra water pump lubricant.

TQ, will follow your troubleshooting plan, sounds solid. Got the stethoscope. I just hate driving around in my old MGB in 100 degree weather!

[djinfiniTeeQ]

TQ and all, thanks for the feedback. Was trying to motivate myself to dig into this further but at the same time trying to tell myself it was just the Gates belt. I'll get it done and provide feedback.

Interestingly, I'm looking at the original tension roller which has black seals, is marked 078 109 243R, and has the 4 Audi rings logo stamped in the center metal; and the black seal is imprinted NTN Japan! I'm sure this car was factory stock without a belt change. I bought it at 45K and did the work at 90K. It looked like it hadn't been touched. It's a 2001.5. I work with German engineers and am surprised that they would OEM bearings from Japan; but honestly I have no problem with Japanese parts. I'm just trying to stay away from Chinese parts!

I too was worried about timing chain tensioners because I replaced the gaskets and half-plugs. Then I tried adding some water wetter for extra water pump lubricant.

TQ, will follow your troubleshooting plan, sounds solid. Got the stethoscope. I just hate driving around in my old MGB in 100 degree weather!

I know this is going back several years now, but I too have the Gates racing belt and am experiencing the exact same problem, and pretty sure I bought the "ultimate Gates TB kit" from ECS for the reason that it included OEM rollers. I too had thought it has to be the acc belt tensioner, and when I pulled the serp belt and started her up, same noise on cold start. I don't have a mechanics stethascope but sounds like the squeak is loudest from the cam sprockets, not the rollers/tensioners below them, so the common thread really seems to be the gates belt here. Please chime in if anyone has any updates on this to know for sure!

[axnjaksn]

I know this is going back several years now, but I too have the Gates racing belt and am experiencing the exact same problem, and pretty sure I bought the "ultimate Gates TB kit" from ECS for the reason that it included OEM rollers. I too had thought it has to be the acc belt tensioner, and when I pulled the serp belt and started her up, same noise on cold start. I don't have a mechanics stethascope but sounds like the squeak is loudest from the cam sprockets, not the rollers/tensioners below them, so the common thread really seems to be the gates belt here. Please chime in if anyone has any updates on this to know for sure!

i have the same kit, mine made that noise for the first few or several thousand miles....its the gates tb...its super stiff and takes longer to warm up and break in...or at least that's what mine was...it went away after a while.....nothing was faulty...believe me I pulled everything off and double then triple checked....after doing some homework i read threads like these and came to my own conclusion

that was almost 50k miles ago when I did my tb ....you should be fine...

[djinfiniTeeQ]

i have the same kit, mine made that noise for the first few or several thousand miles....its the gates tb...its super stiff and takes longer to warm up and break in...or at least that's what mine was...it went away after a while.....nothing was faulty...believe me I pulled everything off and double then triple checked....after doing some homework i read threads like these and came to my own conclusion

that was almost 50k miles ago when I did my tb ....you should be fine...

Righteous! Thanks for the speedy reply and confirmation, Jaksn! After I got the sense that it was indeed just the belt, I did a more pointed search on the blue Gates belts only to find plenty of threads corroborating your story, and quite a funny post about a kid who actually tried using baby powder to quiet down the belt, bahaha!!!