**New from JHM: Timing Chain Service Kits for the B6-B7 S4 4.2L V8!**

[Tech/Sales@JHM]

Hello B6-B7 S4 Audiziners!

After weeks of research, tons of local installations, and a lot of email and phone diagnoses, we are proud to announce our NEW JHM Timing Chain Service Kits for the B6-B7 S4 4.2L V8!

The local Audi service departments we talk to recommend performing this service when your vehicle reaches 100,000 miles, with that being said we've seen symptoms of various forms of timing chain failures much sooner than that. With that being said the chain system on these cars should technically last the 'lifetime" of the car but unfortunately for our customers the engineers who designed this setup were wrong and failures occur regularly much earlier than even 100k. We are just here to help with parts and information to help you make your own decision based on the actual facts of what happened with these cars in the real world. This is in addition to the calls we receive from our customers on a weekly basis regarding some form of timing chain issue with their car. We have regularly seen the famous chain knock on cold start with cars that are quite new. This has been accepted by most due to its normalcy. The big concern is when they knock on warm restarts and can slap and damage other components or collapse at high rpm. We have also seen complete failures of guides and or the mechanical cam adjuster as early as 50k to 80k. Guide failures can lead to more damage to other components. If you have one mechanical cam adjuster fail, it causes one half of the motor to miss fire and sometimes damages the very pricey electric cam adjuster actuator which is included in our FULL and FULL plus kit. With that being said if your car has made it to 100k with minor or no issues it isn't a bad idea to do the service regardless to prevent damage to other components or getting stranded by a car running on half the cylinders. We see and hear of VERY few that fail in the 110k plus range. That doesn't mean they don't last on some cars, we just get more calls and local work on cars under 100k..

These include parts like the problematic chain guide that cracks and is responsible for cold start rattles along with the tensionsers and adjusters that are prone to failure as well.

In order to fit your individual needs for your repair, we have put together 6 different levels of Timing Chain Rebuild Kits:

- FULL PLUS: Click Me!

This kit includes EVERYTHING you will need to complete your Timing Chain service. In addition to all of the o-rings, seals, and stretch bolts needed, you will also receive each of the 4 different chains that are required, 2x UPDATED Electrical Cam Adjuster Assemblies, 2x Mechanical Adjuster Units, all of the chain guides and tensioners required including an updated version of the guide that fails most often featuring additional reinforcements.



- FULL: Click Me!

This kit includes everything featured in the FULL PLUS Kit except for the Timing Chains: all o-rings, seals, and stretch bolts needed, 2x UPDATED Electrical Cam Adjuster Assemblies, 2x Mechanical Adjuster Units, all of the chain guides and tensioners required including an updated version of the guide that fails most often featuring additional reinforcements.



- INTERMEDIATE PLUS: Click Me!

This kit includes everything featured in the FULL PLUS kit except for the 2x UPDATED Electrical Cam Adjuster Assemblies and associated seals and bolts: all o-rings, seals, and stretch bolts needed, each of the 4 different chains that are required, 2x Mechanical Adjuster Units, all of the chain guides and tensioners required including an updated version of the guide that fails most often featuring additional reinforcements.



- INTERMEDIATE: Click Me!

This kit includes everything featured in the INTERMEDIATE PLUS Kit except for the Timing Chains: all o-rings, seals, and stretch bolts needed, 2x Mechanical Adjuster Units, all of the chain guides and tensioners required including an updated version of the guide that fails most often featuring additional reinforcements.



- MINIMAL PLUS: Click Me!

This kit features the minimum amount of parts required to perform a Timing Service. You will receive each of the 4 timing chains, the chain guide tensioners, and the updated version of the chain guide that fails the most often featuring additional reinforcements. This kit will also include all of the o-rings, seals, and bolts required to change these minimal parts.



- MINIMAL: Click Me!

This kit features the minimum amount of parts required to perform a Timing Service. You will receive the chain guide tensioners and the updated version of the chain guide that fails the most often which features additional reinforcements. This kit will also include all of the o-rings, seals, and bolts required to change these minimal parts.



Don't forget the tools needed to complete the job! We have these available for purchase or for rent!

Click Me for Cam Tensioner and Chain Tools!



Call us today to get setup with the JHM Timing Chain Service Kit you need!

[jaybquick@JHM]

UPDATE REGARDING CLARIFICATION FOR 100k SERVICE INTERVAL POSTED ON PAGE 2.

Sorry guys for my delayed presence in this thread. With the move still keeping me busy with equipment setup, purchases, etc to fill out our new spot, our Grand Opening, going to and planning for Wuste with my crew and overall daily running of JHM and continuing to work on B6-B7 S4 products for you guys I am just behind. So I apologize for now love lately as well here on the boards.

My lack of presence lately is also due to all of your wonderful support of JHM and drowning us in phone calls, emails and PMs. So about 2 years ago I began to really concentrate on training and building a strong team of guys to support you when you call, email or PM. I didn't just want to go on a hiring frenzy and have someone with no knowledge or training assisting you. So even though we have been behind for a couple years we are getting near caught up with a additional sales employees. Unfortunately I couldn't hire 4 or 5 guys right out of the gate since it takes time to slowly show each guy the JHM way and make sure they learn something new every day. Once again thanks everyone for your support, I am doing my best to move forward with better support and more V8 specific products.

So here is a clarification on what my guys put in the product description that has already been updated. Sorry for it being too short and not clarified properly. Ultimately it is my fault for not grooming this thread with a fine tooth comb sooner. But it is a non issue about the 100k since many fail prior or act up prior to 100k as well.


Here is what I updated all the product pages and first post with.

The local Audi service departments we talk to recommend performing this service when your vehicle reaches 100,000 miles, with that being said we've seen symptoms of various forms of timing chain failures much sooner than that. With that being said the chain system on these cars should technically last the 'lifetime" of the car but unfortunately for our customers the engineers who designed this setup were wrong and failures occur regularly much earlier than even 100k. We are just here to help with parts and information to help you make your own decision based on the actual facts of what happened with these cars in the real world. This is in addition to the calls we receive from our customers on a weekly basis regarding some form of timing chain issue with their car. We have regularly seen the famous chain knock on cold start with cars that are quite new. This has been accepted by most due to its normalcy. The big concern is when they knock on warm restarts and can slap and damage other components or collapse at high rpm. We have also seen complete failures of guides and or the mechanical cam adjuster as early as 50k to 80k. Guide failures can lead to more damage to other components. If you have one mechanical cam adjuster fail, it causes one half of the motor to miss fire and sometimes damages the very pricey electric cam adjuster actuator which is included in our FULL and FULL plus kit. With that being said if your car has made it to 100k with minor or no issues it isn't a bad idea to do the service regardless to prevent damage to other components or getting stranded by a car running on half the cylinders. We see and hear of VERY few that fail in the 110k plus range. That doesn't mean they don't last on some cars, we just get more calls and local work on cars under 100k.

Sorry for rambling, I just wanted to get you guys updated and clarified regarding the above concerns. Plus I am still recovering from Wuste and Las Vegas and virtually no sleep.

Thanks again everyone and also to those who have ordered kits thus far.

TECH INFO REGARDING THESE KITS AND ASSISTANCE IN DIAGNOSIS. Come back for updates. I also made a new thread for ease of search and I will also update my second post in this section so all this info will be on the first page. I will do my best to bring more info and some pics soon.


CODES WE NORMALLY SEE FOR THE MECHANICAL ADJUSTER FAILURE ON ONE SIDE OF THE MOTOR.

9 Faults Found:

16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 001 - - MIL ON
16690 - Cylinder 6
P0306 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
16691 - Cylinder 7
P0307 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
16689 - Cylinder 5
P0305 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
16686 - Cylinder 2
P0302 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
16692 - Cylinder 8
P0308 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
17755 - Camshaft Position Sensor 2 (G163) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
P1347 - 002 - Incor. Correl. - MIL ON
16730 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G163)
P0346 - 004 - Implausible Signal - MIL ON
16490 - Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96)
P0106 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

So what does this indicate? I will explain.
1. The random multiple missfire is just indicating that it saw more than one cylinder missfire at a given time.
2. The missfires for cylinders 5,6,7,8 indicates that BANK 2, the drivers side of the motor is missfiring. This is the first indicator of the infamous mechanical cam adjuster failure in our intermediate kit.
3. You will also notice that in this particular case it missfired on cylinder 2. This is caused by the fact that half the motor is basically dead and it works harder thus making cylinders on the other side harder to fire if everything isn't 100% perfect (compression, spark plug, coil, injector, etc)
4. The Camshaft Position Sensor code for "Incorrect Correlation" is the dead give away. It is telling you that either the cam is out of phase mechanically or someone put the reluctor wheel on wrong on the end of the adjuster that the sensor reads. NOTE: This code usually takes time to occur. Your generally get the next code first that causes people to jump the gun and buy a cam sensor. Unfortunately these RARELY fail.
5. The Camshaft Position Sensor code for "Implausible Signal" makes you think it is a bad sensor and is the first code that occurs in most cases. So don't jump the gun and swap the sensor. Using Ross-Tech log blocks 091, 092 and 093 and email them to us at [email protected] and my guys will make sure that I look at the log to help assist in diagnosis.
6. Is another code that doesn't always occur. Your car does not have a Baro sensor but uses the MAF to calculate it. This code is caused by the excess reversion of air coming back into the intake from the cams being out and throwing it off. Yes you can get this code for a bad MAF but much of the time it is does to a timing chain issue or other major mechanical failure and accompanied by other codes.

So with this car we did a complete chain job because of the bad adjuster and this car also clacked really bad even on a hot restart. After doing the chain job ALL codes did not return. We did inform the customer that if the cylinder 2 missfire or MAF code came back since we can't 100% confirm they are good or bad due to the obvious major mechanical failure we would then need to charge for further diagnosis.

Furthermore we did a compression test on this car and got compression in the 75 to 110 psi range on all 4 cylinders on Bank 2 which is low, also a dead give away of a mechanical failure.

Bottom line if you have cam sensor codes, check compression and get us those logs. If your compression is fine and you don't have a Correlation code then most likely it is only a sensor or wiring to it. WOOHOO, that would be nice huh?

Also if you had this issue on Bank 1 the codes would have the same description for the cam but be a different number for the other bank. Also your missfires would be on cylinder 1,2,3,4 and those codes would be different.



KIT SUMMARY AND ADDITIONAL INFO FROM JHM
We have not seen the chains fail. The Electric Cam Adjuster Actuators are the lowest failure rate behind the chains since we haven't seen a broken chain yet. The usually only fail if the mechanical adjuster gets really bad and chews it up. They do have a small guide on them that is not replaceable, however most cars around 100k show very little wear. So if yours is worn you should replace it. The accessory chain guide on the other hand wears BADLY on average. The Mechanical adjusters fail most prevalently giving the cam codes I posted above depending on the bank. Also one of the main guides is hairline cracked, cracked or busted on ALL the jobs we have done. So that is why the minimal kit has guides and tensioners for low mileage guys. That way they address the tensioners for the clack and the guides for the updated parts.

Also we put the chains as an option since even back in the 90s and prior, overhead cam chains were known for going 300k plus (for example the 4.6l ford V8 for a closer match to this). Their chains were longer and I doubt made as well since I haven't touched a mustang in many years and don't care to any more. :) But as you know many people believe in changing EVERYTHING in there due to piece of mind and saving on labor. That is why we give chains as an option for all kits.

The minimal kit is for those with low mileage and just the annoying morning start up clack. Except there is no guarantee that the mechanical adjusters in the intermediate kit won't fail down the road since we have seen those go as early as around 50k.

The intermediate kit is going to be for most customers so they don't have to worry about mechanical adjuster failures and the associated missfires in half the engine and cam codes even after changing the other parts and having to take it apart again.

The full kit will be for HIGH mileage cars in the 100k plus range where their guides look worn. With that being said, most of the cars we see in the 110k to 120k range still look good. So it may be cars in the mid to high 100k cars that it will be required. Also the high mileage kit is for those ONE AND DONE kind of guys.

Once again we recommend replacing EVERYTHING for piece of mind and to avoid taking or paying to take the car apart again and spending more in the long run. We could just only sell a full kit but we know everyone likes honest information from us based on actual experience. Plus this makes your own decision based on the condition of the parts, how it was driven and how long you plan on keeping it easier to pick the right kit for you.

[tmorgan4]

all of the chain guides and tensioners required including an updated version of the guide that fails most often featuring additional reinforcements.

Which guide fails most often? And is the guide your selling an updated version from Audi or are you adding additional reinforcements to the updated part?

Thanks.

[Papayaa4]

Nice!!!

[c13h18n2]

Audi recomends this service at 100k?

[beemercer]

good to see this finally released

[BenSti]

Audi recomends this service at 100k?

I believe Audi considers the timing chain system to be lifetime, there is no recommended service mileage that I am aware of.

[labmat]

Wow, quite the selection of kits. Checking the prices I hope I don't need to perform this service anytime soon.

[B6JoeS4]

Shame on any of you that pull your motor to install the minimal kit

[mattro]

nice !
so the minimal kit, without having to pull out the motor, fixing the most common failure... sounds like a no brainer to me, and the price isn't bad too

[Spiral]

JHM,

Has the chains been measured for elongation? Are the electrical adjustors prone or known for failure? The mechanical tensioners, are these known for failure? I would think that if synthetic oil is used and not allowed to be over-used that the cylinder bore and seals on these pensioners should last quite a long time.

Definitely interested, timing chain components are on my list of things to do when it gets parked for the winter.

[Maddog3xx8]

this is good stuff!!

[Hyde]

Shame on any of you that pull your motor to install the minimal kit

nice !
so the minimal kit, without having to pull out the motor, fixing the most common failure... sounds like a no brainer to me, and the price isn't bad too

lulz

[drew]

Audi recomends this service at 100k?

No, they do not. There is nothing official. Not even the service manual states anything related to timing components.

However, seeing all the failures, it is probably a good idea to just do them around 100K anyway.

[mattro]

lulz

ahhh man..

I read that like you didn't have to pull the motor to install the minimal kit and shame on you if you pull the motor to install it. I should have thought 2 seconds more and see that it didn't make sense.
ohh well, my list of things to do just got more expensive

[B6JoeS4]

I don't think you can even do the minial service with the motor in the car. I don't think you will be able to get to the one black guide. I have only ever heard of people doing the adjusters in the car. Although I bet you could do the tensioner, since it sits right on top.

The intermediate kit would be the lowest I would personally do. A while back we concluded that the chains are very stout and they showed almost no signs of wear, but it's one of those "might as well do it and not worry" things.

The part of the adjuster that fails is usually the mechanical portion, which I believe is the part that contains the holes that get worn, eventually causing a failure or code.

[dparm]

Chains stretch but I can't see it being enough to warrant replacement. The adjusters have a wide enough range of movement that they can accommodate the tenths or even hundredths of an inch the chain might stretch.

[JimmyBones]

I don't think you can even do the minial service with the motor in the car. I don't think you will be able to get to the one black guide. I have only ever heard of people doing the adjusters in the car. Although I bet you could do the tensioner, since it sits right on top.

The intermediate kit would be the lowest I would personally do. A while back we concluded that the chains are very stout and they showed almost no signs of wear, but it's one of those "might as well do it and not worry" things.

The part of the adjuster that fails is usually the mechanical portion, which I believe is the part that contains the holes that get worn, eventually causing a failure or code.

I am pretty sure that you could do the entire full plus kit in the car just you would have to pull the transmission (along with the clutch and flywheel for manuals) out to get access to the bottom main rear cover. Now getting the rear main seal on without the special tool cup/cone set will be interesting but I never said it would be easy.

Hell if you had to you could buy this to hold/lower the engine in place to gain more access to hard to reach bolts. I have used mine for a few repairs now and it has made life a lot easier when pulling things like engine mounts or sub-frames.
http://www.harborfreight.com/automot...bar-96524.html

[noznab]

I am pretty sure that you could do the entire full plus kit in the car just you would have to pull the transmission (along with the clutch and flywheel for manuals) out to get access to the bottom main rear cover. Now getting the rear main seal on without the special tool cup/cone set will be interesting but I never said it would be easy.

Hell if you had to you could buy this to hold/lower the engine in place to gain more access to hard to reach bolts. I have used mine for a few repairs now and it has made life a lot easier when pulling things like engine mounts or sub-frames.
http://www.harborfreight.com/automot...bar-96524.html

I cringe at the thought of attempting a full overhaul with the motor still in. Regardless if you're going to pull the trans and go through the head ache of working while the motor is in the car, imo it makes more sense just to remove the engine entirely. I think the extra few hours spent to have the motor on the floor out weighs the "pain in the ass-ness" of having to work with the motor in the car.

[c13h18n2]

Ha ha. I know Audi doesn't recommend timing at 100k. I was more or less pointing out that the advert is claiming they do. I know they would never attempt to BS the user's of this forum, though.

Shame on any of you that pull your motor to install the minimal kit

Frankly, for what they're charging, I'd rather try to replace the motor with a lower miles one than pay 4,250 for the "Full Plus" service. That's for sure. Also, Audi quoted me like 20 hours or something in labor for the job at like $110/hour. I don't remember the exact price with parts for a "timing service" but it was close to the cost of this kit. Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but I could have sworn those chains and plastic guides could be had for under $1k all day long. How come it's so much more money for just a few more parts? They don't even give you those cheap little special tools for the job? That's extra?

I guess I'm really bummed out to learn a full timing service done at home costs roughly the same as just having Audi do all the basic necessary stuff for you. Doesn't seem right to me. I'm sure some of you are like me and have to do things thoroughly and properly which doesn't leave much option as far as the cost of this service.

I'm just ranting/complaining. Sorry, guys. I'll stop.

I am HIV positive it would be faster to pull the motor than attempt this service with the motor in the car.

[dparm]

Dealers have a lot of overhead and they like fat profit margins.

[BCsniper]

Lot's of people keep making the point of, "I'd rather try to replace the motor with a lower miles one than pay 4,250 for the "Full Plus" service." when come of their timing components go bad. Well is that really the best idea? If you know you have a good, healthy motor (but with needing a timing service) do you really want to replace it a motor you have no history of? Sure you can take the seller's word for it, but if they say "don''t worry, it doesn't burn any oil" do you really have anything to back that up? If you are buying it from a friend you know and trust then go for it, however unless that is the case you wont really know the history of the motor and could get one that is in much worse shape than the one you already have. Not to mention the used one you buy will eventually need a timing service done. If you plan on keeping the car, do you just plan on swapping the motor everytime a timing service needs to be done?


And to what c13h18n2 said about "I could have sworn those chains and plastic guides could be had for under $1k all day long", yes you can get the guides and a few other parts for that cheap. But are you really going to pull the motor and only replace the one or two parts that broke then? If you are going to go to that much trouble you might as well replace the other parts that so often fail. Cam Adjusters run $520 each, and the "Control Housings are $750 each. Those things right there shoot the total price up quick. This is what's nice about JHM giving you the different levels. You can buy just what you need (if that's what you choose). Myself, like others, think that since the chains themselves don't really get damaged or that worn I wouldn't really worry about replacing them. That will save you a bunch of money right there.

[jdmnomore]

I am HIV positive it would be faster to pull the motor than attempt this service with the motor in the car.

rofl

and just throwing this out there. I absolutely reccomend doing the intermediate at minimum service as preventative maintenance depending on the year, mileage and condition of your engine. There are a number of ways to diagnose issues with the timing system. In my case I expected to do mines around 120k or so but the tensioner bug bit me at 76k (early 04'). Long story short I bent valves and that motor is toast. It is great that JHM is making this effort to offer a number of options for this service with the benefit of their research and experience with this platform. Cant wait to get my new engine

[SacAudi]

Can you guys post the costs for installation of each?

[madkimchi]

what else would you guys recommend doing while motor is out for this job? mainly to make it stronger and faster car.

OT JHM supercharger kit is limited to 400-450hp right? was it because of our weak rod? anyone make a stronger rod yet? i wonder what it takes to make this v8 500awhp if not more.

[B6JoeS4]

Can you guys post the costs for installation of each?

Installation is going to varry from shop to shop. Replacing the parts themselves is not the labor intensive partt, getting the motor out is. Expect to pay anywhere from 2500-5500 for that.

what else would you guys recommend doing while motor is out for this job? mainly to make it stronger and faster car.

OT JHM supercharger kit is limited to 400-450hp right? was it because of our weak rod? anyone make a stronger rod yet? i wonder what it takes to make this v8 500awhp if not more.

Yes the HP is limited on the supercharger because of the rods. They bend over time.......ask Jay how he knows They are working on a built motor but I think it's still a while until they're ready to go. Audi sucks at building engines so tehy have to fix all of their mistakes as they go

As far as parts to replace:
All fresh O2 sensors
headers since the motor MUST come out to install them.
JHM Clutch/new slave cylidner
rear main seal if you do the clutch (it's cheap)
JHM Shifter trio
Delete the SAI system, which is part of the S/C kit but they will sell you the block-off plates and the file to get rid of the SAI system code you'll get. Only do this if you have something other than stock DP's
Coolant temp sensor

I could go on and on.....but really I just can't think of anything else at the moment

[AudiA4_20T]

Installation is going to varry from shop to shop. Replacing the parts themselves is not the labor intensive partt, getting the motor out is. Expect to pay anywhere from 2500-5500 for that.


Yes the HP is limited on the supercharger because of the rods. They bend over time.......ask Jay how he knows They are working on a built motor but I think it's still a while until they're ready to go. Audi sucks at building engines so tehy have to fix all of their mistakes as they go

As far as parts to replace:
All fresh O2 sensors
headers since the motor MUST come out to install them.
JHM Clutch/new slave cylidner
rear main seal if you do the clutch (it's cheap)
JHM Shifter trio
Delete the SAI system, which is part of the S/C kit but they will sell you the block-off plates and the file to get rid of the SAI system code you'll get. Only do this if you have something other than stock DP's
Coolant temp sensor

I could go on and on.....but really I just can't think of anything else at the moment

Sounds pretty cheap

[mr lee]

Purchased and installed the Full Plus kit on my 04. Everything was spot on and exactly what I needed for the job.

[bangoman]

Purchased and installed the Full Plus kit on my 04. Everything was spot on and exactly what I needed for the job.

May I ask what your level of wrenching is? Just curious because it sounds like a big job and all power to you for tackling it!

[jlink38]

Okay, I'm gonna ask this and maybe someone with some engineering/technical knowledge can help me figure this out, but is there a stronger material that anyone can think of to replace the guides out of to at least minimize the damage the chain does to it over time? Maybe a kevlar type material? I'm wondering if there's something with similar properties to the plastic material Audi uses but with more strength to deal with the chains slapping/scraping along it.

[BenSti]

Okay, I'm gonna ask this and maybe someone with some engineering/technical knowledge can help me figure this out, but is there a stronger material that anyone can think of to replace the guides out of to at least minimize the damage the chain does to it over time? Maybe a kevlar type material? I'm wondering if there's something with similar properties to the plastic material Audi uses but with more strength to deal with the chains slapping/scraping along it.

I am not sure what the stock material is, but it is probably a balance between low friction, high wear, and high strength, not to mention heat. I would assume what Audi put in the car is probably one of the best, if not the best material for the job.

[tmorgan4]

Infiniti had the same issue with plastic timing chain guides cracking on their Q45s. Instead of denying the problem like Audi, they developed new guides that had metal backing plates and I haven't heard of a single failure to date.

[mr lee]

May I ask what your level of wrenching is? Just curious because it sounds like a big job and all power to you for tackling it!

Yes, it is a huge job. Took 2 ASE certified VW/Audi Techs, and a few other shade-tree mechanics. Keep in mind that we did this in my garage with hand tools and jack stands. Took us 25hrs to pull the motor and another 30+ to do the chains and install the motor. We did it over a month period as not to rush anything. The Techs were there mainly to ensure timing and chain guide install.

As for myself.. I've worked on several old/new VW's. Built a few motors and have done custom forced induction, etc. I don't wrench for a living, but I do have many project cars that I'm always working on.

[bangoman]

Yes, it is a huge job. Took 2 ASE certified VW/Audi Techs, and a few other shade-tree mechanics. Keep in mind that we did this in my garage with hand tools and jack stands. Took us 25hrs to pull the motor and another 30+ to do the chains and install the motor. We did it over a month period as not to rush anything. The Techs were there mainly to ensure timing and chain guide install.

As for myself.. I've worked on several old/new VW's. Built a few motors and have done custom forced induction, etc. I don't wrench for a living, but I do have many project cars that I'm always working on.

I'd thought as much. Pretty cool you did it in your garage! Did you take pictures? (for interest only, I have no intention of tackling this!!)

[Nitro1]

"Audi Service Departments recommend performing this service when your vehicle reaches 100,000 miles, but we've seen symptoms of various forms of timing chain failures much sooner than that. Our kit will include everything needed to perform the recommended service and features all Original Equipment Audi parts along with updated parts that were revised by Audi after originally installed at the factory. These include parts like the problematic chain guide that cracks and is responsible for cold start rattles along with the tensionsers and adjusters that are prone to failure as well."

Couple of things...First...Very happy you guys put together a one stop shop to get all the parts for the service. I am, however, very disappointed in the above statement concerning this needing to be done at 100k. I have never heard any Audi service dept or indy shop remotely say that. . You deal with this issue when you hear the chain slap getting worse. Why would I spend the $6000-$8000 to fix something that is not showing signs of breaking yet? Or even a rattle?

This statement is one that has plagued our cars in the market for the last 3 years and it is so false! I would have expected a more positive statement from JHM "If you begin to hear the rattle or are in need of the repair then we are here for you." Instead of this untrue statement of needing to spend $$$$ for a repair that is not even in the manual for our car.

Now...when anyone comes to look or purchase a vehicle, they have JHM stating that our cars are needing some kind of expensive service at $100k. Which is totally false. Sorry to vent, but this really pissed me off.

[Lefthook]

Infiniti had the same issue with plastic timing chain guides cracking on their Q45s. Instead of denying the problem like Audi, they developed new guides that had metal backing plates and I haven't heard of a single failure to date.

Interesting.

[jdmnomore]

"Audi Service Departments recommend performing this service when your vehicle reaches 100,000 miles, but we've seen symptoms of various forms of timing chain failures much sooner than that. Our kit will include everything needed to perform the recommended service and features all Original Equipment Audi parts along with updated parts that were revised by Audi after originally installed at the factory. These include parts like the problematic chain guide that cracks and is responsible for cold start rattles along with the tensionsers and adjusters that are prone to failure as well."

Couple of things...First...Very happy you guys put together a one stop shop to get all the parts for the service. I am, however, very disappointed in the above statement concerning this needing to be done at 100k. I have never heard any Audi service dept or indy shop remotely say that. . You deal with this issue when you hear the chain slap getting worse. Why would I spend the $6000-$8000 to fix something that is not showing signs of breaking yet? Or even a rattle?

This statement is one that has plagued our cars in the market for the last 3 years and it is so false! I would have expected a more positive statement from JHM "If you begin to hear the rattle or are in need of the repair then we are here for you." Instead of this untrue statement of needing to spend $$$$ for a repair that is not even in the manual for our car.

Now...when anyone comes to look or purchase a vehicle, they have JHM stating that our cars are needing some kind of expensive service at $100k. Which is totally false. Sorry to vent, but this really pissed me off.

Honestly you sound ridiculous. JHM has dealt with god knows how many cases of this. They have spoken to numerous sources to develop this kit and determine aproximately when and how you should go about addressing this issue WE ALL face. You sound like the guy who puts up an add stating Mint S4 with 95k little bit of rattle nothing to be concerned about and that couldnt be further from the truth. The statement plaguing our cars right now is that this issue affects less than 1% of owners and you shouldnt have to deal with this. This will cause a lot of owners to lose potentitally good engines by not doing this service preventatively. This is not oil consumption its a totally different situation.

No where here does JHM state it is mandatory to perform this service at 100k. They only make a reccomendation. They will be your first call if/when you should ever experience this so you should be a bit more greatful. This thread will not change the market for our cars. 06+ cars should have no issues selling with or w/o this service having been done for quite a while but on earlier models with higher mileage you have to take this into consideration imo. Sorry but the truth hurts.

[Lefthook]

Honestly you sound ridiculous. JHM has dealt with god knows how many cases of this. They have spoken to numerous sources to develop this kit and determine aproximately when and how you should go about addressing this issue WE ALL face. You sound like the guy who puts up an add stating Mint S4 with 95k little bit of rattle nothing to be concerned about and that couldnt be further from the truth. The statement plaguing our cars right now is that this issue affects less than 1% of owners and you shouldnt have to deal with this. This will cause a lot of owners to lose potentitally good engines by not doing this service preventatively. This is not oil consumption its a totally different situation.

No where here does JHM state it is mandatory to perform this service at 100k. They only make a reccomendation. They will be your first call if/when you should ever experience this so you should be a bit more greatful. This thread will not change the market for our cars. 06+ cars should have no issues selling with or w/o this service having been done for quite a while but on earlier models with higher mileage you have to take this into consideration imo. Sorry but the truth hurts.

I don't think that saying "Audi Service Departments recommend..." is disingenuous either. For that statement to be technically true, you only need 2 service depts in the country to say that it's their opinion the timing service should be done at 100k.

It doesn't say "Audi recommends" or "Audi of America recommends".

The thing about it is, it's a common failure item and these are interference fit engines.



Now, as for me... I have valve guides that leak, and compression in the 140-155 range so... f it. I'm going to put in a new motor when this one goes kaput, lol.

[Lance.Hawk]

Honestly you sound ridiculous. JHM has dealt with god knows how many cases of this. They have spoken to numerous sources to develop this kit and determine aproximately when and how you should go about addressing this issue WE ALL face. You sound like the guy who puts up an add stating Mint S4 with 95k little bit of rattle nothing to be concerned about and that couldnt be further from the truth. The statement plaguing our cars right now is that this issue affects less than 1% of owners and you shouldnt have to deal with this. This will cause a lot of owners to lose potentitally good engines by not doing this service preventatively. This is not oil consumption its a totally different situation.

No where here does JHM state it is mandatory to perform this service at 100k. They only make a reccomendation. They will be your first call if/when you should ever experience this so you should be a bit more greatful. This thread will not change the market for our cars. 06+ cars should have no issues selling with or w/o this service having been done for quite a while but on earlier models with higher mileage you have to take this into consideration imo. Sorry but the truth hurts.

I don't have any issue with Nitro1's beef with the post. I don't find it ridiculous at all. I'm sure the kit is great. I think he is pointing out that JHM is being a little loose with the "recommends" part of the advert. I feel your being a little generous and defensive with the "numerous sources to develop this kit...", c'mon they put together upgraded replacement parts in a package. I doubt a lot of R&D went into this. All that being said I think it's great they have made it easy for those who need it. Through some creative advertising they will probably sell a few kits to those who don't as well. I tend to lean on the side of the skeptic with this particular kit as a preventative service but I don't fault anyone for buying it. People get so touchy with JHM. We all know they are a good company but people get slammed on this board anytime they don't drink the kool aid.

[Lance.Hawk]

Now, as for me... I have valve guides that leak, and compression in the 140-155 range so... f it. I'm going to put in a new motor when this one goes kaput, lol.

Lol don't feel bad I'm getting a new motor next week due to low compression/oil consumption. I feel your pain.