MTM Tuned B8 S4

[MrFunk]

I'm curious if someone can explain to me MTM... do they have an engine management software Tune for the B8 S4 or do they just provide bolt on products?
I came accross this vid on youtube and just curious if it's a stock ECU'd car with all the MTM bolt on's...

Lastly - is this just a EU based company?

[steve0827]

It's a piggy back tune.

Prepare yourself.

Ibtl.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wwhan]

Well you could review Voltrons_head posting with 929 responses on the subject (page24):
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...omorrow/page24

[MrFunk]

That is a MASSIVE thread - wow - seems that there is some debate on weather or not the MTM tune is in the game or not - here's a nice vid of an MTM S4 killing an M3... seems lots of people in EU have had good success with MTM products - just not a big following here...

[skiracerblah]

I might be interested in this for warranty purposes. If this is really a piggy back, i hope i can simply unplug it before going to the dealer for service and nothing will be detected. Will it perform as well as a ECU Flash? Probably not, but i guess a "little" performance with warranty intact is better than no extra performance.

[youS4]

I might be interested in this for warranty purposes. If this is really a piggy back, i hope i can simply unplug it before going to the dealer for service and nothing will be detected. Will it perform as well as a ECU Flash? Probably not, but i guess a "little" performance with warranty intact is better than no extra performance.

...

if T10 is the real deal, then a piggy-back tune will be just as detectable as a flash tune

[LeadToRome]

i guess a "little" performance with warranty intact is better than no extra performance.

If I recall, a "little" would be putting it kindly.

[PsYkHoTiK]

I think that a piggy back can only "trick" the ECU but is still constrained by any programmed limits (aka bypass valve opening up at ~5500 rpm).

[catch]

If I recall, a "little" would be putting it kindly.

how little is little?

i had a piggy back tune on my 335 and was putting out about 50 extra hp with it

[PsYkHoTiK]

This little:


And see how HP tapers off in the upper 5k rpm range (boost being fully bypassed due to OEM ECU calibration)? A proper ECU flash on the other hand, nets HP gains up till redline.

[LeadToRome]

how little is little?

Y'know, I'd have to go back and read again. It was a while ago and a real saga. I seem to think there was basically no increase but somebody with a better recollection should chime in and set the record straight.

edit: ^^ well there you go. Thanks psykotic.

[MrFunk]

Can someone explain to me what a piggy back tune is? Is it a physical thing you plug in to the car that you can unplug? Just curious - this is new to me... thanks.

[Retrospect]

...

if T10 is the real deal, then a piggy-back tune will be just as detectable as a flash tune

Exactly. Piggy-backs will increase boost and afr's and therefore probably logging that somewhere in the ECU that Audi Corporate can read anyway. The best way is to flash completely back to stock. So if you think about it, piggybacks are now rendered useless in terms of warranty and power. Flashes has been and always be better than piggy-backs.

Can someone explain to me what a piggy back tune is? Is it a physical thing you plug in to the car that you can unplug? Just curious - this is new to me... thanks.

Yes, it's a physical thing that you plug into the car that you can unplug. Usually attaches to the ECU harness I believe (from what I see for the 335i piggybacks).

Here's a quote from AWE's 'GIAC flash vs. piggy-back' tune for the Panamera Turbo. It's obliviously not our car, but it has a very good explanation of the pro's and con's of a flash and piggyback.

http://www.awe-tuning.com/products/p...era-turbo.html

G.I.A.C. versus the piggyback module

We had the opportunity to pit G.I.A.C. Software against a main stream, highly popular piggyback module. The results are worth a read. As always, don’t hesitate to reach out to us with any questions at all.

The car

Multiple tests were conducted on a 2010 Panamera Turbo w/Sport Chrono Package. AWE Tuning Track Edition Exhaust. 93 octane pump fuel. And just so this isn’t only about power… the car also had 22” ADV.1 wheels.

How it works

A piggyback module is able to produce power increases by bypassing the factory DME. Let’s take a closer look at what this means: In order to make the factory DME increase boost output, the piggyback module intercepts the boost signal going to the DME and makes it look lower than it actually is. The factory DME then increases boost output in an attempt to compensate for the “under boost” condition it is sensing. However, because the DME never sees the true boost amount going to the engine, and only an artificially lower value, the DME modes designed to protect the engine in the case of an abnormal overboost condition are rendered useless.

Since piggyback modules alter the sensor voltage outputs going to the DME by use of resistors, complete 3D map recalibration/reshaping impossible. Things like air/fuel ratio and boost can only be rescaled, they cannot be re-curved. Re-curving is especially critical on the Panamera Turbo as it has a boost related Exhaust Gas Temperature (EGT) protection dip, richening the air/fuel ratio (AFR) only at high rpms. If the piggyback module is programmed to richen the AFR, in addition to increasing boost, it does so linearly throughout the entire power band, including at high rpms, and consequently the AFR becomes excessively rich as the rpms climb. Conversely, if the piggyback module does not address AFR, then AFR becomes dangerously lean at high rpms as the DME never enters the EGT protection mode, since it is receiving an artificially low boost signal due to the piggyback module manipulation. Additionally, ignition timing maps are not directly adjustable when using a piggyback module, and fuel injector duty cycles, and High Pressure Fuel Pump duty cycles are at the mercy of what the DME can accommodate based on the manipulated sensor signals it receives.

In contrast: G.I.A.C. programs the DME directly, ensuring all systems will function as the factory intended. The G.I.A.C. Software has a clear performance advantage due to the fact that boost, AFR, and ignition maps are individually reshaped, while all protection systems are left intact.

For the record, relative reliability evidence has been anecdotal, found in the public domain and not studied in a controlled environment . We recommend that you do your own research on reliability before making the decision to modify your Panamera.

The outcome

You can make power with the piggyback module. You can make much more power with G.I.A.C. software.

The horsepower advantage

Piggyback module: 568HP/490WHP over the stock 508HP/438WHP
Giving you 60HP/52WHP over stock.
G.I.A.C. Software: 614HP/529WHP over the stock 508HP/438WHP
Giving you 106HP/91WHP over stock, and 46HP/39WHP over the piggyback module.
The torque advantage

Piggyback module: 582TQ/502WTQ over the stock 546TQ/471WTQ
Giving you 36TQ/31WTQ over stock.
G.I.A.C. Software: 604TQ/521WTQ over the stock 546TQ/471WTQ
Giving you 58TQ/50WTQ over stock, and 22TQ/19WTQ over the piggyback module.
Below are the dyno sheets of the G.I.A.C. Software versus the piggyback module






G.I.A.C. Software has produced

Power to the crank

106HP over stock, and 46HP over the piggyback module along with 58TQ over stock, and 22TQ over the piggyback module.
Power to the wheels

91WHP over stock, and 39WHP over the piggyback module along with 50WTQ over stock, and 19WTQ over the piggyback module.

[wwhan]

The returned offending piggyback; http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post5618060

[John@Roc-Euro]

I'm not sure which part falls under the "remove that shit" portion...

In regards to the TD1 aspect, no dice- the software check not only looks for coding, it just checks physical values- so IF the piggyback COULD make any power, it would show limits exceeded and still get flagged.

So I would recommend not paying more, getting less, and still being boned.

[MrFunk]

Really great information. Thanks - never heard of a piggy-back tune so learning something new... Seems a full flash makes all the sense in the world rather than tricking the ECU with bolt-ons...