Emissions testing facility broke my car

[tmorgan4]

Just when I thought my luck with this S4 (2005) couldn't get any worse...it did. For those of you that followed my USP front bumper thread, I had a minor accident (other driver at fault) after owning the car for about a month. After two weeks in the body shop, I have a new USP bumper and the car looks great.

My temp tags were expired after picking it up from the body shop (4 days turned into 14 days) and I went to get my necessary emissions test () so I could go get plates and avoid parking tickets every day that I go to work.

Keep in mind the car had 79,1XX miles when I bought it on December 20th and now has 80,7XX. Never an engine related issue other than the cold start rattle for a split-second. Some fresh Lubro-Moly helped quiet it down but it's still there.

What was supposed to take 5 minutes went something like this:

Pull into the emissions facility garage and was instructed to leave the car in 1st gear, handbrake off, and shut the engine off.
Leave the keys in the car and head to the waiting room with windows to watch the entire process.
I watch a guy get in the car, start it, and pull onto the AWD dyno (just waiting for him to wreck my new BBS's...they survived)
Engine is shut off and the facilities OBD computer is hooked up to my car.
Engine is re-started, run on the dyno for less than 2 minutes at lower RPM's (waiting room is soundproof) and engine shut off again.
OBD computer is un-hooked, and I watch two different guys get in the car as my headlights are flashing on and off. Starting to wonder what is up.
They wave to another guy for help and it takes 3 guys to push it off the dyno.
I get called up to the payment window and told the car passed with flying colors but now it refuses to start.
They say here's your paperwork, and we can't legally touch anything on the car to try and help. They can't even help try and jump it.
The employees helped push it outside where I let it sit for the rest of the day.


Symptoms:

It cranks over but only reads 200 RPM on the dash. No battery light or signs of a dead battery.

I end up calling someone for a ride and came back later with some basic tools and another car. Tried jumping the battery off another car and no luck. Popping the clutch wasn't enough to get it started, either. Still getting 12V at the fuel pump fuse so I pulled off the fuel line at the fuel rail and it's still pumping lots of fuel while cranking.

I gave up and called a tow truck. Now it's sitting at the dealer waiting for a diagnosis. I guess I'll wait and see what's wrong to decide if it's just a crazy coincidence or whether the emissions guys managed to screw something up. Nothing more satisfying than watching the tow truck drag the car onto a flat bed while scraping the shit out of my new bumper.

Anyone want to take a guess on what the problem is?????

[nicotino15]

that sucks, sorry for your bad luck. Sounds like you checked the fuel side of things, since the starter was working I guess something is up with either air or spark delivery.

So I guess they do the emissions testing using the tailpipe test there, right? That sucks bc those guys at the inspection stations are pretty worthless, I don't trust them to test my car without even having to start it up.

[redls1bird]

The emissions stations are not allowed to do repairs so that theu cant say "oh your car failed, BUT for 200 dollars we can pop this sensor on and it will be ok." It really is for your protection. As far as whats wrong with the car, you have sufficient engine speed while cranking, sounds like you have plenty of fuel volume and pressure, leaves just spark. Most likely a blown fuse. Youll be hard pressed to take out an engine control module just by plugging it into an OBD-II scanner.

[tmorgan4]

Bad news....Dealer just called and they said there's no compression. Not sure whether it's on both banks or just one but they think it's most likely timing chain related.

Gave them the OK to pull the valve covers and see how many pieces the tensioners are in.

[Docwyte]

Get the car from the dealer and take it to Poudre Sports Car! Otherwise you're about to pay through the nose for the work they do.

[Axel-]

Holy crap! That really freaking sucks. Do you have an after-market warranty?

[tmorgan4]

Get the car from the dealer and take it to Poudre Sports Car! Otherwise you're about to pay through the nose for the work they do.

That's not a bad idea...hadn't thought of Poudre Sports Car. Metrick Method's wouldn't answer their phone and A&B was backed up for weeks. I had to make a decision where to get it towed so off to Ed Carroll it went. At least they're getting the diagnosis done quickly and I'll determine if they're fixing it or not when I know what's wrong.

Holy crap! That really freaking sucks. Do you have an after-market warranty?

Unfortunately...no. I got duped into buying an aftermarket warranty on my last truck (2005 F-250 Powerstroke) and fortunately never needed it. I told myself I'd just put the $2k away instead on the next car but in this case it could be useful. It seems like a lot of the 3rd party warranties have big lists of excluded components to try and get out of a claim.

[M|R]

Shit! Im sorry to hear that man...

What really concerns me is how the chain decided to let go just like that. I was going to guess it was spark related since you seemed to be getting fuel fine but never would have though of it being the timing chain. Did you have any rattle at all before this - especially on cold starts?

On another note, I hate emissions testing. I searched high and low to find a good shop (indy Euro shop) that I could take my car to. Just the thougt of someone ragging on my car makes me cringe. People just dont respect your car like you do...

[tmorgan4]

Shit! Im sorry to hear that man...

What really concerns me is how the chain decided to let go just like that. I was going to guess it was spark related since you seemed to be getting fuel fine but never would have though of it being the timing chain. Did you have any rattle at all before this - especially on cold starts?

On another note, I hate emissions testing. I searched high and low to find a good shop (indy Euro shop) that I could take my car to. Just the thougt of someone ragging on my car makes me cringe. People just dont respect your car like you do...

Thanks for the kind words. I really expected something simple as well. I seriously wish I could have HEARD what the car sounded like as this was going on. I was watching it all through the window but couldn't hear anything.

I had a very minor rattle on start-up...literally just for a split second and it would disappear. Never had any noise while running whether it was hot or cold. NO symptoms other than the rattle on start-up.

I still think it's too much of a coincidence that something happened during the 5 minutes someone else was driving it. I can hardly even think right now after reading about some of the $5-9k repair bills people are posting.

The worst part about the emissions facility out here is it's state run and the ONLY place you can go to get tested. You CAN'T go to an independent shop unless it's a diesel. I've been dreading getting the car tested for months and now I know why.

[SuperAvant]

File an insurance claim against the shop....

Care custody and control of your vehicle and they screwed it up. They will have to prove there was an underlying issue...

[BWT]

File an insurance claim against the shop....

Care custody and control of your vehicle and they screwed it up. They will have to prove there was an underlying issue...

Yep, I'd be speaking with a lawyer and documenting everything at the very least because you're looking at a very costly repair bill. Who's to say the guy at the shop didn't push it way past redline while it was on the dyno?

[Nitro1]

Thanks for the kind words. I really expected something simple as well. I seriously wish I could have HEARD what the car sounded like as this was going on. I was watching it all through the window but couldn't hear anything.

I had a very minor rattle on start-up...literally just for a split second and it would disappear. Never had any noise while running whether it was hot or cold. NO symptoms other than the rattle on start-up.

I still think it's too much of a coincidence that something happened during the 5 minutes someone else was driving it. I can hardly even think right now after reading about some of the $5-9k repair bills people are posting.

The worst part about the emissions facility out here is it's state run and the ONLY place you can go to get tested. You CAN'T go to an independent shop unless it's a diesel. I've been dreading getting the car tested for months and now I know why.

Just a PSA for anyone who lives in Colorado. If you have the means or a PO Box in the mountains of Colorado, I would suggest plating your car up here as we don;t have any emissions testing outside of the front range.

[Ali]

Sad news, very sorry. Just got my S4 recently and will probably get it tested here in Denver soon but this stroy will haunt me while its on the rollers. With my RX7 I now turn the boost down completely before taking it in after they almost launched it off the rollers the first time I took it in years back.

[M|R]

Thanks for the kind words. I really expected something simple as well. I seriously wish I could have HEARD what the car sounded like as this was going on. I was watching it all through the window but couldn't hear anything.

I had a very minor rattle on start-up...literally just for a split second and it would disappear. Never had any noise while running whether it was hot or cold. NO symptoms other than the rattle on start-up.

I still think it's too much of a coincidence that something happened during the 5 minutes someone else was driving it. I can hardly even think right now after reading about some of the $5-9k repair bills people are posting.

The worst part about the emissions facility out here is it's state run and the ONLY place you can go to get tested. You CAN'T go to an independent shop unless it's a diesel. I've been dreading getting the car tested for months and now I know why.

The more you describe the situation the more I think it was a user error (ie the idiots at the test station.).

IMO, there is very little possibility that the timing chain and the guides decided to fail just on the spot - which so happens to be a dyno with some [probably inconsiderate] people piloting the car - even with slight startup rattle, it just doesnt add up. Hate to say it but its time to lawyer up.

What did the dealer say/find when they started disassembling?

[tmorgan4]

I have a hard time believing it was simply a coincidence as well.

I never heard back from the dealer this afternoon like they promised. I think I'll run over there in the morning and see if they've even pulled the valve covers yet (only work I've authorized so far).

[powderrecon]

Sorry to hear about your bad luck. That sucks. Keep us posted on the results from the dealer.

[04Moroblue]

I'm with these guys. When I moved from a dealer to a independent shop they required me to get my inspection license. If this had happened we wouldn't have rolled it out.... Sounds kinda guilty to me if there hired solely for stickers most of the time they don't have much experience. What frustrates me about this is back in MA obd 2 plus cars just need to get scanned because well ... The computer will tell you about an emissions issue and the dyno and sniffer were never to return due to operational costs and liability.

Lawyer up and have them prove they didn't do it, repair shops have a lot of insurance for a reason!

[SuperAvant]

repair shops have a lot of insurance for a reason!

You would be surprised - alot dont. But in this case, it doesnt matter if they have insurance or not - sue them.

[vdubjetta02]

Holy shit, you live in the same town as me? That emissions center is the one off Mullberry and I-25? They also gave me hell with Audi last year, I ended up taking my car to Loveland's emission center instead. Stay away from that place.

[Ali]

if they have not torn into it yet I would consider getting it towed to an indi that you would want doing the work if it turns out to be huge.

[Docwyte]

As much as I'd like to blame the emissions place, there's no way driving the car on the rollers caused your timing chain to fail. If that's what happened...

It was just coincidence that it failed on them vs on you driving home.

They had my car on the rollers for 10 seconds, it fast passed and that was that...

[vdubjetta02]

As much as I'd like to blame the emissions place, there's no way driving the car on the rollers caused your timing chain to fail. If that's what happened...

It was just coincidence that it failed on them vs on you driving home.

They had my car on the rollers for 10 seconds, it fast passed and that was that...

My car was on the rollers for 12 minutes..... I hate those underqualified Piece of shit employees.... They failed my car the first time because my door card said my car came wtih 17's and a 45 series tire. My car had 19's with a 35 series tire. They said my series was incorrect and they failed me. I even tried to explain how upgrading wheel size affects series of tire. They looked at me as if they had down syndrome. Then the next two times, they couldn't locate my HFC.....

[Docwyte]

They're not the smartest bunch of guys there. But driving a car on the rollers isn't going to cause the timing chain to break.

[tmorgan4]

Holy shit, you live in the same town as me? That emissions center is the one off Mullberry and I-25? They also gave me hell with Audi last year, I ended up taking my car to Loveland's emission center instead. Stay away from that place.

Yep! That's the one. I heard that the one in Loveland is better...but I didn't know it existed until after all of this went down.

[tmorgan4]

Just stopped by the dealer....engine is TOAST. Timing was way off on both banks so the heads are trashed.

Anyone want to buy a solid 2005 S4 w/ 80k and a brand new USP front end conversion? Blown engine is included free of charge. Seriously though...if anyone wants to make an offer.....

[Moto One]

That sucks...

Sorry to hear the results.

Mark

[Davect06607]

Shit! Im sorry to hear that man...

What really concerns me is how the chain decided to let go just like that. I was going to guess it was spark related since you seemed to be getting fuel fine but never would have though of it being the timing chain. Did you have any rattle at all before this - especially on cold starts?

On another note, I hate emissions testing. I searched high and low to find a good shop (indy Euro shop) that I could take my car to. Just the thougt of someone ragging on my car makes me cringe. People just dont respect your car like you do...

And what shop did we find?

[SacAudi]

Just stopped by the dealer....engine is TOAST. Timing was way off on both banks so the heads are trashed.

Anyone want to buy a solid 2005 S4 w/ 80k and a brand new USP front end conversion? Blown engine is included free of charge. Seriously though...if anyone wants to make an offer.....

I dont know how these engines work, or the computers...

but what if when the OBD was hooked up lightning striked, or something happened that freaked the computer our and ruined something... the fact that it did it while it was hooked up to a computer tells me MAYBE something was changed. can you do this type of damage in the WORST CASE scenario of something happening to your electrical system? Say the car was ran for 12 minutes with a SERIOUS electrical or ECU issue the whole time? get where i am going with this?

Its like your USB stick blowing up 5 seconds after putting it into your computer... horrible analogy i know...

[buck15]

Sorry to hear about all the troubles you have had and now big lost, that really sucks! Question to the rest of the community; is this common to have slight (which is suppose to be normal) timing chain rattle to timing system totally fails resulting in lost of motor?

[Charlescrs6]

Just stopped by the dealer....engine is TOAST. Timing was way off on both banks so the heads are trashed.

Anyone want to buy a solid 2005 S4 w/ 80k and a brand new USP front end conversion? Blown engine is included free of charge. Seriously though...if anyone wants to make an offer.....

I know someone that might be interested. [email protected] is his email. He buys S4s with blown motors a lot. Worth a shot, and sorry to hear about your car.

[M|R]

And what shop did we find?

Little indy out in Woodbury area. Ill find and pm you the name.

[tmorgan4]

Getting close to having a running engine again. Can't wait to drive it again. Sorry for the crappy iPhone pictures.

I was pleasanty surprised by the condition of the cylinder walls. You can't see it too well in the pictures but there was no scoring. The bottom end was in great condition and was worth rebuilding instead of spending $5k on a junkyard engine. I'll post up a list of parts I replaced soon. It continues to grow.

[Black3.2]

I was actually thinking about this thread the other day and was wondering what ever happened. Did the facility cover the cost of the rebuild?

[tmorgan4]

Nope...Never got anyone to cover any costs. Paying 100% out of pocket.

Dealer didn't accept any responsibility. Emissions center denied my claim even after appealing. The ASE tech on the phone representing the emissions center told me I might have failed to maintain my timing belt.

Audi of America also refused to even help with the cost of parts.

[BCsniper]

Very glad to see you didn't let the car die. I hate seeing these cars getting chopped up and parted out after they have issues (although it is nice to have a place to get spare parts).


I believe the same thing happened to a local S4 to me. He had a timing issue come up and the dealer said they had to replace pretty much everything but the bottom end.

[Black3.2]

That sucks about having to cover it all yourself. It is a double edged sword, you could have lawyered up against the facility but most likely that would have cost the same if not more than if you just covered the cost yourself. Sorry about that. Good luck with the build, continue with the updates.

[M|R]

Nope...Never got anyone to cover any costs. Paying 100% out of pocket.

Dealer didn't accept any responsibility. Emissions center denied my claim even after appealing. The ASE tech on the phone representing the emissions center told me I might have failed to maintain my timing belt.

Audi of America also refused to even help with the cost of parts.

Wow...

Look at the bright side...you dont have scored cylinders

[SlideWays]

Nope...Never got anyone to cover any costs. Paying 100% out of pocket.

Dealer didn't accept any responsibility. Emissions center denied my claim even after appealing. The ASE tech on the phone representing the emissions center told me I might have failed to maintain my timing belt.

Audi of America also refused to even help with the cost of parts.

Damn dude, so sorry to hear. You're taking it way better than most, myself included. What a shitty situation, and shitty dealer/emissions center, given what your side of the story was.

Looks good to see the rebuild tho. BOO OEM motor mounts! (unless those are 034, can't tell). How many hours was it in the machine shop, and/or what was the labor (roughly) for the pull and rebuild? I think a lot of us may be staring down this barrel soon, and I know I'd like to have an idea of what it would cost.