Motor Trend Luxury Sedan Comparison

[AWDLover]

Pretty interesting read of Motor Trend's (cough* biased*cough) review of 2012 entry level luxury sedans. The A4 came in 4th place behind the MB C250, Volvo S60 T5, and a $50k+ BMW 328i. For that much money I'd rather have an S4.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...an_comparison/

[Liquid Smoke]

well i expected the 3-series on top, but the A4 has to be above the c-class and definitely the Volvo. i dont get why they are complaining about the grey/beige interior, it's not like that's the only option so y not go for the black interior version and put that in the review. also, yea wth $50k of course i'd expect it to be #1 on that list, might as well made it the 5-series. if they went $50k on the 3 series then they shouldve done a higher end s-line A4 or even the S4.

[cory_can]

^ I agree....you can't even count the 3-series since MotorTrend blows so much Bavarian cock it's ridiculous. These comparisons are a waste of time.

[Blake P]

well i expected the 3-series on top, but the A4 has to be above the c-class and definitely the Volvo. i dont get why they are complaining about the grey/beige interior, it's not like that's the only option so y not go for the black interior version and put that in the review. also, yea wth $50k of course i'd expect it to be #1 on that list, might as well made it the 5-series. if they went $50k on the 3 series then they shouldve done a higher end s-line A4 or even the S4.

I'm pretty sure each manufacturer has the choice of what car they send for the review. BMW obviously put their best foot forward. If Audi did not, then that's THEIR fault. FWIW, the new 3 series sounds like it has indeed raised the bar once again.

[dracolnyte]

lol at one of the commenters said:
"The IS250 would have been in first place if they had one with a manual transmission. The IS250 shouldn't even be compared to a lowly 328i, as it is more 335i competition, while the IS350 handles the M3."

noob, too lazy to make an account and bash back at him there

[A4A4A4]

Did any of you guys read the article?

Seemed pretty far from biased to me. They explicitly state why their 328i has such a high price tag and go further as to say even a $40,000 optioned down version would have blown away the competition.

I'd bet when the 2013 A4 comes out it'll move up a notch or two but I think the 3-series will hang on to that top spot.

^ I agree....you can't even count the 3-series since MotorTrend blows so much Bavarian cock it's ridiculous. These comparisons are a waste of time.

Ingolstadt is in Bavaria too.

[AWDLover]

I would like to see one of the media outlets to do a comparison where they pick a price and get a car from each manufacturer as close to the price point as possible without going over. Something like 40 or 45k.

[Black3.2]

Interesting that the A4 had the highest power to weight ration though, BMW had the lowest by far.

[AWDLover]

Did any of you guys read the article?

Seemed pretty far from biased to me. They explicitly state why their 328i has such a high price tag and go further as to say even a $40,000 optioned down version would have blown away the competition.

I'd bet when the 2013 A4 comes out it'll move up a notch or two but I think the 3-series will hang on to that top spot.



Ingolstadt is in Bavaria too.

They put a decently performing Buick Regal GS (which they recently claimed beat out an S60 T6 R design) behind a G25 and in last place. That's pretty biased.

[A4A4A4]

They put a decently performing Buick Regal GS (which they recently claimed beat out an S60 T6 R design) behind a G25 and in last place. That's pretty biased.

Link to that article? I only remember Car and Driver doing that comparison, not Motortrend.

Are you sure it's not some of your personal biases shining through here, not MT's?

FWIW, when I drove the Regal, I thought it was rubbish too.

[AWDLover]

Link to that article? I only remember Car and Driver doing that comparison, not Motortrend.

Are you sure it's not some of your personal biases shining through here, not MT's?

FWIW, when I drove the Regal, I thought it was rubbish too.

My bad it was C&D. I'm not defending the car, I just would choose it over a G25.

[cory_can]

Did any of you guys read the article?

Seemed pretty far from biased to me. They explicitly state why their 328i has such a high price tag and go further as to say even a $40,000 optioned down version would have blown away the competition.

I'd bet when the 2013 A4 comes out it'll move up a notch or two but I think the 3-series will hang on to that top spot.

Ingolstadt is in Bavaria too.

Yes I realize that.

I meant as in Bavarian Motor Works.....everyone is so critical in this fucking place.....Like you didn't know what I was talking about? Tool.

[A4A4A4]

My bad it was C&D. I'm not defending the car, I just would choose it over a G25.

Their choices don't exactly coincide with mine but I wouldn't go so far as to shout "bias". I can see how someone would come to the conclusions they did though, they're not that far fetched if you've driven all of these cars.

My list would probably be:

8th TSX
7th Regal
6th G25
5th IS250
4th S60
3rd A4
2nd C250
1st 328i (although I haven't driven the newest, I'm only assuming)

[Okan509]

They got it to 60 in 5.8. That's a good number to see for stock and automatic. Sweet

[Okan509]

I'm really considering the f30 328 as my next car, but It just isn't that pretty on the outside. I hate how the lights connect to the grill. The lead designer prides himself on that feature, and I think it's awful. Everything else sounds good though.

[Blake P]

I'm really considering the f30 328 as my next car, but It just isn't that pretty on the outside. I hate how the lights connect to the grill. The lead designer prides himself on that feature, and I think it's awful. Everything else sounds good though.

I think it's an aggressive design element and ONLY looks good on the M Sport equipped cars. F30 328i M Sport wagon will likely be my next ride.

[oc cc]

This review is total garbage. The interior of the A4 alone shits on the rest. Sure, performance wise it might not be up to par, but the technology and quality one of Audis lowest models (the A4) is surprisingly good. Whereas the C and 3 series (until their newest iterations) were FAR below the E and 5 series respectively. Not gonna lie though, I don't know if yall read that article on Autoblog about the new 3 series and the current 335d, but apparently the new turbo 4 is faster and more efficient than the older 335d. In fact, I think the new STOCK 3 series is as fast as our cars WITH A TUNE! So even though Audi gets demolished by the 3 series as far as performance, I have sat in the new one and despite it being a giant leap over the last one, it just NOW can stack up to the A4s old (2008-9?) interior design. Once the new A4 comes out I am sure it will once again trump BMW in the interior department though.... (but still suck ass from a performance stand point.... let's face it, our cars are slow as balls)

[A4A4A4]

Yes I realize that.

I meant as in Bavarian Motor Works.....everyone is so critical in this fucking place.....Like you didn't know what I was talking about? Tool.

Didn't realize you were so touchy there Cory. I'll be nicer next time.

This review is total garbage. The interior of the A4 alone shits on the rest. Sure, performance wise it might not be up to par, but the technology and quality one of Audis lowest models (the A4) is surprisingly good. Whereas the C and 3 series (until their newest iterations) were FAR below the E and 5 series respectively. Not gonna lie though, I don't know if yall read that article on Autoblog about the new 3 series and the current 335d, but apparently the new turbo 4 is faster and more efficient than the older 335d. In fact, I think the new STOCK 3 series is as fast as our cars WITH A TUNE! So even though Audi gets demolished by the 3 series as far as performance, I have sat in the new one and despite it being a giant leap over the last one, it just NOW can stack up to the A4s old (2008-9?) interior design. Once the new A4 comes out I am sure it will once again trump BMW in the interior department though.... (but still suck ass from a performance stand point.... let's face it, our cars are slow as balls)

May just be me but I thought this,



looked better than this,



It's no secret that the interior material quality has gone a bit downhill for the B8 as well.

[eyrah]

^ I agree....you can't even count the 3-series since MotorTrend blows so much Bavarian cock it's ridiculous. These comparisons are a waste of time.

perfectly said hahaha

[AudiAdi]

There seems to be some blind love for the Audi in this forum (not saying I'm surprised!), but I thought the review was pretty objective.

The isolated steering feel of the entire line of B8 cars are well known (easily what I dislike the most in my car--even the dynamic mode makes it feel artificially heavy compared to the comfort mode). Also, that grey interior color IS really drab... and like others here have said, the material quality feels decidedly cheap compared to the B6/B7 cars. While it's STILL a great interior, I don't think it's enough for buyers to overlook the still nose-heavy feel of the car or the isolated handling feel compared to the Benz and BMW.

I do, however, agree with everyone that the Volvo doesn't seem like it deserved that 2nd place finish.

[Okan509]

I think it's an aggressive design element and ONLY looks good on the M Sport equipped cars. F30 328i M Sport wagon will likely be my next ride.

Just looked it up, it does look miles better with the M-sport package, but I still think there should be fiberglass there instead of headlight plastic.

[Blake P]

Just looked it up, it does look miles better with the M-sport package, but I still think there should be fiberglass there instead of headlight plastic.

Honestly, I was SO pissed when I initially saw the design released but have now warmed to it.

[Okan509]

Honestly, I was SO pissed when I initially saw the design released but have now warmed to it.

Same here! Still those few things that look a little funky, but the M-sport should look great in person, and relieve the eyes from those strange things. They did a great job with the lines down the side***of the car, the all go upward, which always helps with the sportiness. The B8 has the sagging but when you aren't lowered due to those lines. Curious to see the wagon, gonna see if I can find anything now.

[Blake P]

Same here! Still those few things that look a little funky, but the M-sport should look great in person, and relieve the eyes from those strange things. They did a great job with the lines down the die of the car, the all go upward, which always helps with the sportiness. The B8 has the sagging but when you aren't lowered due to those lines. Curious to see the wagon, gonna see if I can find anything now.

It won't be officially released until June, but here's a spy shot I pshopped:

[AWDLover]

It won't be officially released until June, but here's a spy shot I pshopped:

Off topic, but today I saw what looked to be an Audi Q5 wrapped completely in that black and white swirl camouflage followed by a Q5 and A3 with big audi decals on the side. It was near Golden, CO. They were going in the opposite direction as me so I couldn't get a good look at it.

[Blake P]

Today I saw what looked to be an Audi Q5 wrapped completely in that black and white swirl camouflage followed by a Q5 and A3 with big audi decals on the side. It was near Golden, CO. They were going in the opposite direction as me so I couldn't get a good look at it.

Not a Q3? I know Porsche has been using Q5 bodies to test it's upcoming small SUV (Macan), but it wouldn't really make sense to be riding along with a Q5 and A3...

[AWDLover]

Not a Q3? I know Porsche has been using Q5 bodies to test it's upcoming small SUV (Macan), but it wouldn't really make sense to be riding along with a Q5 and A3...

Could have been. I really didn't get a good look at it by the time it drove past....

[A4A4A4]

Could have been. I really didn't get a good look at it by the time it drove past....

It may have even been the rumored "SQ5".

[Vito Roma]

Volvo....i LOL'd

[equ]

I don't have an issue it coming second (a close one) to a newly introduced rwd bmw in an essentially dry test. It's real competitor is the 328i xdrive and that will be an even closer match.

If you look at the data, the 09-design a4 still does the figure 8 in exactly same time as the rwd 328i in the dry. Any other condition (wet/snow) would be no contest. It also pulls slightly more grip and falls back a few scant feet in braking, I'll call those a wash. The bmw might have a touch more speed (5.6s to 60mph vs. 5.8) and may win the feel.. But even with its lighter rwd variant, it doesn't embarrass the audi. I'd like to see how the 328xi would fare, I'd guess pretty much equal. Better driving feel likely goes to the bmw. The audi is ahead on exterior looks, interior ergos, real tires and a spare.

Audi loses points with enthusiasts with its default steering feel/weight. It really helps to put in that vag-com fix and set it to 'dynamic'. I wonder how that would have affected MT's subjective ranking. I still call B.S. on them ranking the volvo & MB ahead of the a4. Both of those cars are objectively and significantly behind the a4 in acceleration, grip and figure 8. Look for yourself.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...udi_specs.html

[keeva381]

vag-com fix and set it to 'dynamic'

What does that really do for the A4? Can you do this if you don't have the option of setting it to dynamic?

[equ]

What does that really do for the A4? Can you do this if you don't have the option of setting it to dynamic?

It makes the steering better and yes, it can be done on one without drive select. Read this thread carefully:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-VAG-COM-codes

[brinesi]

Theres also a bit of paid advertising going on - not saying in this case its BMW but its how most mags / shows really make money. I say this because I work quite a bit on a few car review shows Ill leave unnamed and theyre all paid advertising disguised as objective reviews from trusted car figures - you should hear the raw footage I hear that we cut out. I usually take most with a grain of salt and pay more attention to Consumer Reports since they operate mostly on subscription sales rather than endorsements - albeit I certainly wouldnt consider them car people, but they are objective and have experienced reviewers.

[BMWBig6]

From Motor Trend comparison article:

Also, what's up with the awful wind noise?

That's funny, didn't C&D test the B8 S4 as the quietest car (dB at speed) last year?

[Liquid Smoke]

yea i think us Audi owners are just getting a bit too defensive, dont blame ya lol. but either way its just motor trends review, my A4 is still #1 to me and that's why i got it :D

[AudiTLC]

Well, it's a fair review of the cars. I disagree with the outcome but I'm not surprised the newly redesigned BMW would top the Audi and Merc (which will shortly be redesigned). This will allow for another "showdown" and sell more magazines.

The things that make the Audi our top choice?
Best seats and interior. Despite some cheaper feeling areas like the silver plastic center console, it is impressive overall and the materials look more expensive than the rest. Quattro is a huge selling point.
The A4 is a "true" Audi with north-south engine and real Quattro. We think it's the best looking exterior as well.
Audi redefined the auto biz with it's AutoUnion grille and LED DRL's. Everyone is copying it- UNLIKE everyone else, Audi has a historical reason for using it! It means something, not just a trend!
Within the Audi A4 family, the B8 A4 is just as fast as the B5 S4. The 2.0T matches the V6TT with better mpgs, larger size, more space and features. That's impressive.
When you look at Audi's lineup, you get the sense they have a design philosophy. They BELIEVE in their way and are confident about it.

I'm sorry but Mercedes hodge-podge styling and mix of cheaper looking and feeling materials and buttons is a step down.
I distrust Mercedes from their cost-cutting days and crap quality. They may have seen the light recently but I wait and see. Their interiors still feel like old man cars.
Their lineup is a schizophrenic mix of boxy styling and rounded, creased forms. They don't have the strong design philosophy as Audi does, they just do trendy things- like Lexus or something.

BMW's seats are just too uncomfortable for my wife. She dislikes them and also remains unimpressed with the cars.
I think they are great driving cars but the interiors, again, are stark and bland by comparision. Nice cars, but the 3 is just way too common in our area to be just a bit special.

Volvo is nice but you can't see out the back. Audi manages to make a beautiful body and still have some visibility. The HVAC control is just a little goofy and playschool-like for me.
It looks like it should be in a Mini. I think it's a good idea (Hyundai copied it) but I could see others really liking it.
Prestige and resale may be lacking with the Volvo as well as concern with the future of the brand- they seem to radically change styling to attract attention and are not evolutionary like Audi.

Anyway, I'm obviously biased but for us, the Audi is tops.

[2Point0TDan]

see how they choose the 328 as the winner but why Audi wasn't behind I cannot. Nothing in article indicatd the Volvo or MB to be ahead of the Audi. Oh welll its just on paper ahead but real world they will always be behind.

[B G 8er]

I don't believe we are privy to the "advertorial" relationship that BMW has long received from the automotive press but this has been going on for years! Regarding the Mercedes, that was my last car (an '08) and while I loved it while I had it, it was much more of a luxury car with solid build and handling than an engaging sport sedan like the BMW or Audi. I haven't driven the MB refresh with the four - turbo but I can imagine how it would feel. My Dad was an Aerospace Engineer and Car Enthusiast. He always reminded me that building an automobile is a choice of compromises. There are allot of factors that go into engineering, designing and marketing a vehicle. It really boils down to a driver's individual needs and emotional appeal to each particular vehicle.

[MiracleWhips]

It won't be officially released until June, but here's a spy shot I pshopped:

Approved!

I have seen a couple of the current gen 3 series wagons rolling around tha bay that are decently hooked up. Look really clean with just wheels and a drop!

[Sin_city_Rings]

I think it's an aggressive design element and ONLY looks good on the M Sport equipped cars. F30 328i M Sport wagon will likely be my next ride.

Audizine Moderator (AKA Forum Nazi) talking about getting a BMW!?!? What has the world come to?


RE: Mercedes C250 Comments...... I came extremely close to buying the car two months ago. That interior is unfortunately superior to ours when equipped correctly, and the "fun" factor is definitely there with their four turbo. The ONLY reason i didnt buy it was due to my emotional attachment to the Audi brand itself. Know the car before you make the comments about the vehicles.