Control arm longevity, ball joints, grease fittings, oh my!

[evo_ski]

I have recently started to research the difference between 034 and Stern adjustable control arms which led me to some information that I find a bit troubling. I am getting pretty frustrated by the control arms on my car. I read in a couple threads that the average life span for a ball joint was somewhere around 25,000 miles (also listed on the achtuning site for the stern control arms). Is that really accurate? I find it hard to believe that control arm ball joints go bad that quickly. If that was the case shouldn't the ones on my car have been replaced under warranty a couple times before I purchased it?

In any case I did a full Febi control arm kit swap last summer (car had about 90-95k on it at the time and I now have 115K) and in that year I have replaced one of the front straight lower arms due to a blown out strut bushing, and am thinking I need to replace a lower curved arm for a clunking ball joint. This just seems crazy to me that the ball joint would have gone bad that quickly.

So basically my question is: is this normal to have the ball joints and or bushings only last about 25-30K? If so I would be pretty worried to purchase the Stern adjustable arms if they are only supposed to last 20k before you have to buy the $160 refresher kit. Sounds like the 034 ones have cheaper ball joints and with the density line bushings they would be more affordable and longer lasting than the Stern set.

Also, I remember seeing an upper control arm DIY where someone had installed grease fittings on the ball joints. Would doing something similar on the lower ball joints increase the lifespan of those joints?

Any thoughts?

[the sheriff]

glad you brought this up and I'll be interested in seeing what info comes out. I'm also in the market for some adjustable control arms as my car is blowing through front rubber. I know a lot of people have gone with the Stern arms, however I've also had my eye on the SPC ones through Black Forest Industries ( http://store.blackforestindustries.c...b5auadupc.html )

I have recently started to research the difference between 034 and Stern adjustable control arms which led me to some information that I find a bit troubling. I am getting pretty frustrated by the control arms on my car. I read in a couple threads that the average life span for a ball joint was somewhere around 25,000 miles (also listed on the achtuning site for the stern control arms). Is that really accurate? I find it hard to believe that control arm ball joints go bad that quickly. If that was the case shouldn't the ones on my car have been replaced under warranty a couple times before I purchased it?

In any case I did a full Febi control arm kit swap last summer (car had about 90-95k on it at the time and I now have 115K) and in that year I have replaced one of the front straight lower arms due to a blown out strut bushing, and am thinking I need to replace a lower curved arm for a clunking ball joint. This just seems crazy to me that the ball joint would have gone bad that quickly.

So basically my question is: is this normal to have the ball joints and or bushings only last about 25-30K? If so I would be pretty worried to purchase the Stern adjustable arms if they are only supposed to last 20k before you have to buy the $160 refresher kit. Sounds like the 034 ones have cheaper ball joints and with the density line bushings they would be more affordable and longer lasting than the Stern set.

Also, I remember seeing an upper control arm DIY where someone had installed grease fittings on the ball joints. Would doing something similar on the lower ball joints increase the lifespan of those joints?

Any thoughts?

[old guy]

I guess it really depends upon your road conditions. I replaced my control arms at 140k and honestly I was surprised at how good my old ones were. It definitely tightened up the suspension but what I took off was by no means totally worn out. The inner bushings were intact with a few visible cracks and the ball joint ends didn't have any noticeable slop. Granted, most of my driving is Interstate where there aren't a lot of pot holes.

[evo_ski]

I guess it really depends upon your road conditions. I replaced my control arms at 140k and honestly I was surprised at how good my old ones were. It definitely tightened up the suspension but what I took off was by no means totally worn out. The inner bushings were intact with a few visible cracks and the ball joint ends didn't have any noticeable slop. Granted, most of my driving is Interstate where there aren't a lot of pot holes.

I guess that is partly my concern. After removing the stock ones, which definitely did have some audible clunks and clatter over bumps and rough terrain after 95K I am getting similar noises after only 20-25K on the new ones. The bushings on the OEM ones look better after all of that time than some of the bushings on my "new" ones. I know that you can press fit in new bushings on the arms, but since you can't really replace the ball joints I was curious if doing grease fittings (which I only started reading about today and don't really know much about) might make the ball joints last a bit longer.

[old guy]

Did you replace the upper rubber strut mounts along with the control arms? That may be the source of your new clunks.

[aran]

I have stern's. They are not sealed with rubber on the ball joint, so debris can get in the housing. They claim they are more sealed than other aftermarket arms, because the top is sealed, but it still doesn't seem like the best solution to me. I looked at other brands as well, and the Sterns seemed to offer the most protection, the biggest complaint I heard was a few stories of bent arms.

The key to longevity to me is resetting the arms to a neutral position if you are lowered at all.

The SPC's seem to have rubber boots, which may extend their life a bit longer.

[evo_ski]

I did. And as per your suggestion on my multiple "clunk hunting" posts I also used an impact to make sure the top nut on the coilovers was on tight. The nut didn't budge, so that doesn't seem to be the issue. I had my steering rack replaced about a month ago which cut the volume and frequency of the clunking just about in half. The ball joints on the inner tie rods were so shot that they flopped around like a bobble head.

That experience leads me to believe that it is a ball joint issue, but again, I can't be certain without replacing that arm. At this point everything in the front end is brand new within about 25k miles. I have new coils and top bushing ~20K, new control arms ~25K, new front sway including brackets, bushings and links ~25k, and a new steering rack ~5K.

[old guy]

Damn!! Sounds like you have covered everything. I can't imagine what could cause the ball joints to wear out that fast. Do you have particularly bad roads in your area? If you can wear out ball joints that quickly I doubt adding a grease fitting is going to do much for you. I can't comment on the Febi control arms since I went with the FCP kit. Basically they looked pretty much the same as the OEM ones.

Have you inspected your subframe bushings? They could be worn out and causing a clunk. I believe 034 Motorsport has solid replacements available: Clicky click. Personally I would stick with the rubber ones for better NVH isolation but you sure as hell won't wear out the billet bushings.

[Charles.waite]

You live on the Eastside right? Man the roads are like butter out there! Queen Anne is worse than Fremont which is bad enough. We should get together sometime and push our cars down the Boat Lauch at Golden Gardens! So many damn problems!

From what I can tell, most of my front end control arms are shot in one way or another. Also my steering is super rubbery feeling which makes me think the Tie rods are gone too. Couple that with the parts warehouse that my shed is turning into and my Audi is becoming expensive quickly. Thank god my B7 runs fine (minus the broken Thermostat of course ).

It never ends.

[sa_seahawker]

I was under the impression that the CAs are meant to be tightened and torqued while the car is under load (on its wheels). If not, the incorrect angle of arms when they are tightened with the wheels hanging puts stress on the joints and causes premature failure.

I replaced mine with 034s and no problems so far, but it's only been about 6k miles

[evo_ski]

Damn!! Sounds like you have covered everything. I can't imagine what could cause the ball joints to wear out that fast. Do you have particularly bad roads in your area? If you can wear out ball joints that quickly I doubt adding a grease fitting is going to do much for you. I can't comment on the Febi control arms since I went with the FCP kit. Basically they looked pretty much the same as the OEM ones.

Have you inspected your subframe bushings? They could be worn out and causing a clunk. I believe 034 Motorsport has solid replacements available: Clicky click. Personally I would stick with the rubber ones for better NVH isolation but you sure as hell won't wear out the billet bushings.

Subframe bushing would be a great and logical next step to inspect. I am sure that couldn't hurt to add to the list. The roads in my area are definitely nowhere near as bad as most of the streets in Seattle. I actually just ordered a lowers + tie rod only kit from FCP since I had a coupon with a bunch of other maintenance items. The plan was to re-swap the lowers and add adjustable uppers sometime this summer, and hopefully that will make everything go away. I just had some concerns reading from multiple places that the ball joints only last 25-30K and was wondering if that was 100% necessary to keep swapping out. I mean for me that is almost going to be a yearly occurrence, but hopefully within the next 6 months or so I will be driving much less.

You live on the Eastside right? Man the roads are like butter out there! Queen Anne is worse than Fremont which is bad enough. We should get together sometime and push our cars down the Boat Lauch at Golden Gardens! So many damn problems!

I do, so yeah, I couldn't believe how quickly some of that came back. Some of the roads in Seattle are terrible. Its like they pave 10ft sections at a time and leave kickers in between.

I was under the impression that the CAs are meant to be tightened and torqued while the car is under load (on its wheels). If not, the incorrect angle of arms when they are tightened with the wheels hanging puts stress on the joints and causes premature failure.

You are definitely correct. I jacked up the hub assembly to where it barely lifted that corner off the jack stands and proceeded to torque to spec for all of the new arms.

[evo_ski]

Old Guy, one more question for you. I remember you saying that you used some washers in between the sway bar and end link, but can't seem to find the thread with the details on it. If you happened to have details on the washer size and quantity as well as if you need a longer bolt that would be great.

Thanks again for all the responses and help guys I appreciate it!

[old guy]

Here ya go: Clicky click

[evo_ski]

Perfect! I had a tear in one of my new Febi end links after about 25K, but the oem ones still seem decent. I think the washer fix will be perfect. Thanks again!

[the sheriff]

, let's get back to adjustible control arms now :)

[evo_ski]

I think at this point I am leaning toward the 034's for a couple reasons.

034
-Cheaper to start with compared to Stern and SPC.
-Cheaper replacement ball joints (only what I have read, I haven't seen the price for the replacements)
-More durable bushings than the Stern stock durometer bushings
-Camber is locked in and won't change during day to day driving (probably won't happen anyway with the other ones, so not a huge plus)

Cons
-More involved to change the camber

Stern/SPC
-Far easier camber adjustment means probably cheaper alignments since they won't want to kill you afterwards

Cons
-Potential to bend (not super likely, but still needs to be taken into consideration)
-Possibly need to dissasemble to anti-seize before they are put back together and on the car
-Very expensive to purchase the refresher kit for the ball joints and bushings (~$160)
-Stern's don't have a dust boot (they say they are sealed, but I would think rolling around in the winter and dirt all the time would over time lead to quicker destruction than if they had a boot)
-Sterns are more expensive than 034 to start with and more expensive to maintain
-SPC's don't appear to be serviceable, so at my rate when I blow them out in a year and a half I have to buy a new set rather than new ball joints


If anyone that has used them or has more knowledge has anything to add to my list that would be awesome.

[dan5171]

Check out gruven parts uca's as well. I had the stern's...I'll never give them a penny of my money again.

[waldo1324]

Thank god my B7 runs fine (minus the broken Thermostat of course ).

i think the most logical solution is for me to come do your thermostat and you to come do my timing belt. that is the only way either of those are getting done.

[Charles.waite]

i think the most logical solution is for me to come do your thermostat and you to come do my timing belt. that is the only way either of those are getting done.

This is probably true, sadly. Out of town this weekend. But the following weekend, I promise*!

* Subject to availability of beer and desire...

[waldo1324]

This is probably true, sadly. Out of town this weekend. But the following weekend, I promise*!

* Subject to availability of beer and desire...

the latter is scarce whence the former is plentiful

[B6A4Dave]

I think the weather conditions will have a good amount to do with this, I live in a very dry state with very poor road conditions and road quality.

Not to mention, our suspension appears to be designed to beat the shit out of the load bearing ball joints...just by design..

[aran]

You are definitely correct. I jacked up the hub assembly to where it barely lifted that corner off the jack stands and proceeded to torque to spec for all of the new arms.

Just make sure you disconnect the sway bar before doing this, or it won't "lift" that corner properly, because it is still connected to the other side via the sway.

[evo_ski]

Just make sure you disconnect the sway bar before doing this, or it won't "lift" that corner properly, because it is still connected to the other side via the sway.

I was just assuming that when you jack up that corner the sway wouldn't have much to push against, but that is a great point. From now on I will definitely make sure to do that when I am installing new arms.

[old guy]

You can leave the sway bar connected if you do it properly. Put the jack under the the steering knuckle and jack up the suspension until the car is at the normal fender to ground height. this will load your suspension to the same place it would be with the wheel attached. This is assuming that the opposite side has the wheel attached and at the normal fender to ground height.

[Rausch]

I was talking to one of my buddy's that works on only European cars and he said that all the aftermarket control arms are all made in china crap. He said if you longevity get OE from the dealer.

[aran]

You can leave the sway bar connected if you do it properly. Put the jack under the the steering knuckle and jack up the suspension until the car is at the normal fender to ground height. this will load your suspension to the same place it would be with the wheel attached. This is assuming that the opposite side has the wheel attached and at the normal fender to ground height.

It's much easier with the sway bar disconnected, the bar being attached connects the two sides. If you measure and get it dead on, then you do not have to disconnect it, but if you are using the lift point as your guide as to where the arms should be tightened, you MUST disconnect it(as OP stated he was doing). I also do not use ground to fender measurements, I measure from the center of the hub to the bottom of the fender, it is a more accurate measurement, and the wheels do not need to be on the car, which makes the whole process a lot easier.

[B6A4US]

I think at this point I am leaning toward the 034's for a couple reasons.

034
-Cheaper to start with compared to Stern and SPC.
-Cheaper replacement ball joints (only what I have read, I haven't seen the price for the replacements)
-More durable bushings than the Stern stock durometer bushings
-Camber is locked in and won't change during day to day driving (probably won't happen anyway with the other ones, so not a huge plus)

Cons
-More involved to change the camber

Stern/SPC
-Far easier camber adjustment means probably cheaper alignments since they won't want to kill you afterwards

Cons
-Potential to bend (not super likely, but still needs to be taken into consideration)
-Possibly need to dissasemble to anti-seize before they are put back together and on the car
-Very expensive to purchase the refresher kit for the ball joints and bushings (~$160)
-Stern's don't have a dust boot (they say they are sealed, but I would think rolling around in the winter and dirt all the time would over time lead to quicker destruction than if they had a boot)
-Sterns are more expensive than 034 to start with and more expensive to maintain
-SPC's don't appear to be serviceable, so at my rate when I blow them out in a year and a half I have to buy a new set rather than new ball joints


If anyone that has used them or has more knowledge has anything to add to my list that would be awesome.

Did you end up going with the 034's over the SPC/Sterns. I am in between the SPC's and the 034's at the moment. Have emails pending at both companies.

[evo_ski]

Lazlo hooked it up on the 034s so those are shipping out next week. I will make sure to make a post with my first impressions after they are installed.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

[SHAKING STEVENS]

Couple that with the parts warehouse that my shed is turning into and my Audi is becoming expensive quickly. Thank god my B7 runs fine (minus the broken Thermostat of course ). It never ends.

yep it can soon feel like your drowning in issues if you have one with lots of jobs, a chunk of money and being handy with the spanners is a must to prevent your lungs filling with water, if you've got enough money to throw it in at the dealer everytime then i suppose you wouldnt be driving a (relatively) old girl like this. I have recently surfaced and took a F*k off gulp of air, thankfully.

My control arm set was off ebay for £110 (full set) I will likely feel the brunt of this in a year or two. dare i say it, it sounds like oem is the way forward, especially in shitepartsonly.co.uk. I didnt replace my top mounts, i will next time after ive trashed the ebay ones. i got rid of some clunks but not all (maybe top mounts and steering rack are remaining possibilites, i do not see rack replacement as realistic value now, would rather get a remap). however we must not get too hung up on these noises, the car is so good/smooth that maybe hear these things more, agreed a fully tight front end is good for your tyre life and grip, but light noises i have just learnt to block them out . Loud clunks yep I agree they should be sorted .

Remember to include 'tie rods' in case the 'tie rod ends' are siezed on, Im hoping next time i do CA's i will not have to replace the tie rods aswells as the tie rod ends.... i do a monthly squirt of wd40 in there but time will tell....

perhaps a be all and end all full whammy 5 year guarantee, ahhh almost like a new car:
all oem control arms, tie rods and top mounts
new oem subframe mounts
full wheel alignment
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

my name is sh&te but it wont let me change it. my car doesnt really shake anymore just a mild hum, like resonance from a blocked cat- definatly justified ordering the test pipe, ha told the mrs it was either the test pipe or a new cat (shes onto cars a little bit!)

[B6A4US]

Did he give you a better deal than the $475 list price on their website?

[diagnosticator]

I have 96K miles on my original suspension parts, and I don't believe I need to replace anything yet. Febi is not the lowest grade aftermarket parts, but Lemforder OEM replacement parts are the best OEM aftermarket parts available.

[diagnosticator]

I was just assuming that when you jack up that corner the sway wouldn't have much to push against, but that is a great point. From now on I will definitely make sure to do that when I am installing new arms.

Yeah, Audi requires that the suspension is loaded to the nominal ride height when the suspension pivot bushings are torqued to spec. The factory tools list even has a strap down setup for use on a lift to pull the suspension down as needed. The other way to do this is to bolt a 90 degree bracket to a floor jack that has the 5 bolt holes drilled in the vertical flange, that then is bolted to the wheel hub. then the jack is jacked up to compress the suspension to the required ride height. The only problem with this method is there is no room to swing the torque wrench as there is not enough clearance between the chassis and the ground. It can be done, but it's difficult. Since I live near University Audi, I leave the bushing bolts loose then drive to the dealer and have the suspension tightened on the lift correctly.

[B6A4US]

What's your opinion on the 034 CA's so far?

[a4darkness]

Subscribed... need to start gathering info for a swap of these and related components this summer.

[ANDROID184]

after looking at all the adjustable upper arms...I went with the 034's they look better built then the stern's. The stern's are "prettier" I guess
but they do look like they will bend with the right hit. The gmp one's also didnt look bad.

[evo_ski]

The 034's are awesome. They look and feel extremely well built and are pretty easy to adjust. I knew what my approximate camber settings would be after dropping the car back down to my summer height based on my alignment sheets from last year. Installing the rubber boots is by far the hardest part of the operation, but is still quite basic once you figure out a system. You simply slide the boot over the end of the bare ball joint and from there insert the gold top plate through the opening in the boot so it can be screwed down onto the post. Once the screw is on tight that holds the ball joint together you have to stretch the rubber back over the gold top plate so that it will seal out dirt effectively. I found it to be pretty simple once you did one of them, but there is a certain technique to getting those on there.

To save the alignment shop some time (and in the process potentially myself some cash from reducing the labor time) I adjusted the arms out from the stock position they were sent in. After getting my alignment done I was bang on where I wanted them to be since the 034 arms are so easy (and precise) in how they adjust the camber. Each half turn of the ball joint is .1 degrees of adjustment. Had I purchased Stern's or other arms that have a turnbuckle style adjustment it would have been a complete shot in the dark as to what my camber was. I had to drop my camber on the right side from about 1.6 down to 1 and from about 1.4 down to 1 on the left, so I spun the right side three full turns out and the left 2 full turns out. If you are going to do your camber adjustment yourself before you get an alignment make sure to do the appropriate adjustments to your tie rods as well. I completely spaced and didn't think about how that would affect the adjustment and after a quick test drive around the block noticed I had some pretty extreme toe out after that, so I had to spin the tie rod out an equal amount.

All in all the arms are pretty basic, but I think the design and construction of them is excellent. The only downside although very slight is that at full lock I occasionally hit the spring from my Vogtland Gt's on the arms. Simple solution, don't crank the steering wheel to full lock...... job done. The simple and precise adjustment, build quality, helpful staff at 034, and the POSSIBILITY of the Sterns or other turnbuckle systems bending all made the choice pretty easy for me to go with 034 and I am happy I did so.

If you guys want any pictures or have any questions feel free to hit me up.

[B6A4US]

Pics would be great, as I pulled the trigger on the 034 Density CA's yesterday and will try and install them this wknd with my buddy in his garage.

[evo_ski]

What kind of pics were you looking for? I can see what I can take for you.

[a4darkness]

Excellent info about the 034's... certainly upped my opinion about them.

[ECS Tuning-Audi]

Check out gruven parts uca's as well. I had the stern's...I'll never give them a penny of my money again.

We carry Gruven adjustable control arms!

Click HERE to order or for more information.

Jason