Why are these EBC brakes squealing like a garbage truck???

[prizmatik]

I recently purchased a 2001 A4. The original owner installed EBC Green brake pads, and they squeal horribly, sounds like a trash truck or a bus. Its horrible. They have plenty of brake pad life left, and the rotors are in good condition, I replaced them with a cheap set from Autozone I had laying around for my '03 A4, and no more squealing.
I have attached some pictures of the pads, anyone with experience with these pads, any explanations are welcomed.

[robertbutnar]

you probably need to apply anti squeek gel to the back of the pads so that there is no vibrations were the metal surfaces touch the cheap ones from autozone you have probably have shims so they didnt need the gel.

[prizmatik]

I noticed that the previous owner applied some sort of silicone to the areas where the brake pad base made contact to the brake caliper carrier. Of course I cleaned it all off before I installed my cheap autozone brakes. And I sprayed the back of the brake pads with disc brake quiet as I always do.

[sweets4style]

if you didnt turn the rotors before installing the new pads (old owner) that would cause the squealing from dissimilar materials on the rotor. If you put new rotors on my best guess would be to do a bed in procedure to get them nice and up to temp to shed any oddball material still left on them and bed the rotors in properly.

[prizmatik]

Well, I've had the Autozone pads on for about 5 days now, and they aren't squealing like a school bus. So, I will assume the EBC pads weren't installed with the proper disc brake quiet.

[CCA4]

I have EBC Red Stuff pads and they do squeak a bit. I assumed it had to do with the kevlar/ceramic friction material. Doesn't bother me too much, but then it doesn't sound like mine are as bad as yours are..

[Scientist]

I installed the red EBCs (kevlar/ceramic) and applied anti-sieze to the pads as I always do and they squeaked for about a week, which I find that unsusual. No more after that.

[bmarshall]

EBC pads come with anti squeel tape for the back of the pad you should have put it on

[Scientist]

Oh, I did that too.

[prizmatik]

RESURRECTION!!!!

I've had a '98 A4 for 2-3 months, and I am experiencing the same exact issue.
I removed the brake pads to inspect them and the rotors, I see nothing strange.
I applied Disc Brake Quiet to the pads, and has not made a difference.
The pads looked to be an OEM equivelant.
Mostly sounds to be the passenger side front brake creating all the noise. I'm sick of the horrible garbage truck squeal!!!!
I suppose I will just purchase a set from Autozone.

[coolgraymemo]

May not be the answer to your question, but when I first got my BBK I had a terrible squeal/squeak. Brands were pretty much new and I couldn't find any issues.

It ended up being the brake fluid. It was that blue brake fluid (can't remember the brand).

[melomandn]

May not be the answer to your question, but when I first got my BBK I had a terrible squeal/squeak. Brands were pretty much new and I couldn't find any issues.

It ended up being the brake fluid. It was that blue brake fluid (can't remember the brand).

How was the fluid causing a squeal?

[coolgraymemo]

I'm not sure, but it's common on B5s. The blue dye messes with something. There appears to be no problems with regular amber colored brake fluid (of the same brand).

[mysman]

I'm not sure, but it's common on B5s. The blue dye messes with something. There appears to be no problems with regular amber colored brake fluid (of the same brand).

That sounds interesting, maybe you could find a link? Anyway, for squealing there are a number of things you can do, in this order.

Double check the carrier and caliper bolts are tight and the caliper sliding pins are in good shape. Make sure caliper piston is retracting properly (little to no drag when you spin wheel).

Make sure the wheel bearings are good. Check if there are any marks on the rotor from wear clips, etc.

If you're getting a tight spot when spinning the wheel, and the bearings, etc., are good, you can index the rotor to minimize run out.

Remove the rotor and roughen the surface with coarse grit paper, using a cross hatch pattern, and break down the outer and inner wear ridges, if any.

Use anti-seize on the mounting faces of the rotor.

Make sure all the edges of the pad have a generous bevel; that includes the center slot.

Use shims and anti-squeal compound on the pads.

In extreme cases when all options are exhausted, what I've done is drill several small holes in the pad and plug the holes with pencil lead (graphite).

[c0r3y.af]

I'm not sure, but it's common on B5s. The blue dye messes with something. There appears to be no problems with regular amber colored brake fluid (of the same brand).

The ATE Blue fluid? Never heard of that issue. I don't see how fluid could cause squealing but who knows these days.

My rear EBC Yellows squealed for the first week on my MK4 and then stopped. Same with my rear EBC Greens on my A4. Weird.

[mykeg6]

They should be quiet after a few hundred miles.

I have the EBC reds. They were noisy at first. Not anymore.

[coolgraymemo]

It also caused the clutch pedal to squeak.

[CCA4]

It also caused the clutch pedal to squeak.

Always wondered what that was. Both my B5's have done that in the cold.

[zerokiller698]

I'm running EBC redstuff pads, and they squeak if I haven't made a hard stop in over a week. usually I'll take an exit ramp and give some aggressive braking and they stay quiet

[CBlockb5a4]

get on the highway late at night, without anyone behind you...do 80 and jump on the brakes like you're going to hit a baby.....brakes will quiet down after that.....If it makes you feel any better, my track pads sound like a dump truck going down a steep mountain.....they're soooooo loud but they stop the car very well...(Hawk Ht-9)

[Corrado_Guy]

I run EBC Yellows front and rear with A8/TT 12.3" brakes on the front and stock on the rear with stainless flex hoses and I had a bit of squealing at first and nothing since under any braking. It is very important to bed the brakes before you really start using them normally, you should basically drive your car like it was a train and let the pads bed into the disks for at least 500 miles. New pads are are very susceptible to glazing at first so you have to make sure they bed properly. This goes for your clutch as well, you have to be nice to it at first before you start side-stepping it.

Just add what was written above I always scrub down all surfaces where the brake pad rides and clean it all back to the base metal. This includes the back of the caliper where the fingers hold the outer pad, the inner piston, and the surfaces on the caliper carrier. Everything has to move freely so make sure the caliper sliders are clean, greased, and move easily. You can get good grease designed for this from most automotive stores if yours need attention. Then you need to look at the caliper carrier and see where the pads ride and make sure they are all clean with no rust or anything that could cause the pads to hang. If this is all good then it comes down to brake pads and rotors.

When I worked for Nissan way back in the day they were having problems from squealing brakes and they tried shims, glue-on things, anti-squeal compound on the pad surfaces, brake pads, and rotors (and how they were resurfaced before pad changes). For the most part the issue came about after the first set of pads and all of the different steps and materials were looked at and it basically came down to two things. The pads they were buying that were made in Canada were made of a really hard compound and this just caused the pad to vibrate and make a squealing noise. A lot of heat can also cause this but most people have squeal whether the brakes are hot or cold. The second thing they found was that the rotors must be replaced or properly resurfaced before and new pad was put in. If you look at the grooves in the pad on the first pic you can see there are some fairly big ones. This will also cause squealing because the pad will move around in all those grooves and it can cause noise. The place I worked at during this time was also on the base of a mountain with pretty much nothing but hills so we also had a lot of issues with glazing because the owners could never really properly bed the brakes.

Start with high quality brake pads, cheaper pads only save you money because they do not perform as well and tend to eat rotors. I went for the EBC Yellow pads because they are designed for the street, the track, and for standard vehicles that need aggressive brakes like an RV. The Yellows don't need to be warmed much either, they bite nicely hot or cold and warm up quickly. Do not re-use a rotor unless it has been properly re-surface or better yet replaced. I use OEM rotors on my car so for me it is better to just toss them after the first set of pads and just buy new ones. I have never had a set of pads replaced and I have never used the new pads without turning the rotors. As mentioned, one product that did work where all else was copper anti-seize. The mechanics used this on all surfaces where the brake pads either rode or were touched. Just a thin coat on the caliper carriers and then a bit on the caliper fingers and the caliper piston. Stopping that pad from vibrating is what you are really doing by allowing it to move smoothly without hanging.

I have no noise after a few 1,000 kms and I used nothing on my brakes whatsoever other than what came stuck to the pads. I cleaned all surfaces so they were spotless and the pads moved easily so I didn't bother using any anti-seize. This trick was usually successful on most cars when they were running decent pads. I would say that the rotors looked like they may be pretty worn and this will increase the likely hood of squealing just by itself.

How did everything look on yours? Where the pads able to move back and forth easily or were the caliper carriers coated with rust or crap? I count myself lucky, I have never had any issues with brake squeal but I always clean everything so it is smooth and spotless otherwise it gets replaced. If the caliper carriers have a lot of corrosion or grooving from the pads being moved across them then these can cause squealing by themselves. I also don't use any special coating, anti-seize, shims, or anything that is not attached to the pad and no issues.

Make sure everything is clean, the pads move across the caliper carriers smoothly, the caliper moves back and forth smoothly on the sliding pins, you are using high quality pads, you have new or properly turned rotors, and most importantly, you bed the pads properly. If you do that probably 9 times out of 10 you will have no noise once the pads are properly seated.

There were also a lot of good suggestions above on mechanical items that can also cause this so look into them as well. I don't agree with the putting compounds on the pads though, that always was a bad idea and it never worked back then (where copper anti-seize would) and I doubt it has gotten any better. That stuff changing the characteristics of the pad and I don't know if that is a good thing or not but I would never chance it.

[2001A4]

Most of the time sqealing is due to improper bedding, the intitial break in of pads and rotors is crucial, if not done properly you could have trouble for the lifetime of the pads. It can also depend on rotor type vs. pad type, usually oem rotors do not play well with ceremic or even semi ceremic pads, due to the material used in the rotor, they can cause premature rotor failure. ie wrapage, or excessive wear.

If you would like more info these guys know their stuff. http://zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm

[c0r3y.af]

If you would like more info these guys know their stuff. http://zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm

Already knew a lot of this stuff but definitely a great read

[mysman]

I've had mixed results from aggressively bedding in brake pads. Remember it's the combination of rotor material/finish as well as the pad material/finish that determines how the brakes "bed-in". The real problem with noise is one of static friction vs. kinetic friction, and the transition that occurs when you first make pad contact. The static/kinetic friction ratio is greater than one, but the pad materials that have a lower ratio have a smoother transition with less vibration. This results quieter operation. Manufacturers have adopted all sorts of vibration mitigation schemes, shims, compounds, even springs wrapped around the perimeter of the rotor. This allows them more flexibility in specifying pad materials that may have a higher friction ratio. In the bad old days, when disc brake were first introduced for the street (and I first started wrenching), you didn't have all these extra do-dads attached to the pads, lol. It was the Porsche guys, I believe, that came up with the pencil lead trick. It lowers the friction ratio by reducing the initial static bite, but doesn't affect the kinetic friction significantly.