Why no A4 Diesels in US?

[B72011]

No Diesel option in US other than the Audi A3--aka the Audi Golf!

WHY....FOR THE LOVE!?!?!?!.........WHY?!?!?

Man, if they offered a diesel--seems to me that would be the ultimate car for the average Joe Audi enthusiast--add Avant-- PERFECT car.
Sick styling
Fantastic interior
Fast
Handles like a sports car
Resonably priced
40 mpg

2014 or beyond???

[Hugh@EuropaParts]

No Diesel option in US other than the Audi A3--aka the Audi Golf!

WHY....FOR THE LOVE!?!?!?!.........WHY?!?!?

Man, if they offered a diesel--seems to me that would be the ultimate car for the average Joe Audi enthusiast--add Avant-- PERFECT car.
Sick styling
Fantastic interior
Fast
Handles like a sports car
Resonably priced
40 mpg

2014 or beyond???

Those 2 kind of don't go together... I've driven a few TDI's and they are not exactly... fast...
TDI's are popular in Europe due to the fact that gas costs almost twice as much there as it does here...

[A4A4A4]

Because the general american public doesn't buy them. They prefer their gas powered crossovers.

[bez101]

i hate diesels but had a few
my last passat 140bhp avant model decat stage 2 hybrid turbo mapping made 280bhp
and still returned 55mpg motorway and 42 round town and yes they can be fast with all the TQ they pull like a train
but im back to petrol just dont like the dervs

[exbimmer]

As A4A4A4 said - the market just wouldn't be there. Diesels are still percieved as being dirty and slow, and generally not worth it (especially since diesel is ~$0.50/gal more expensive than gas). Also, emissions regulations are different between the EU and EPA, with California's being most strict, so it is probably a headache for them to certify to EPA emissions standards for such a relatively small (or at least un-interested) market.

[JPT]

Because the general american public doesn't buy them. They prefer their gas powered crossovers.

Personally, I don't think this is true. I think it is that the American Public has never really had the option. The only diesels we have had, where usually trucks. It wasn't until gas prices where high a couple years ago, that auto manufacturers started giving us more options.

I wouldn't be surprised if we had the choice, the sales would go up. Generally it's really only trucks, and a few German cars that ever had the option of diesel.

[exbimmer]

Personally, I don't think this is true. I think it is that the American Public has never really had the option. The only diesels we have had, where usually trucks. It wasn't until gas prices where high a couple years ago, that auto manufacturers started giving us more options.
I wouldn't be surprised if we had the choice, the sales would go up. Generally it's really only trucks, and a few German cars that ever had the option of diesel.

I think it is entirely true. The public had options in the 70s and 80s when the oil crisis first hit. Unfortunately, this time gave diesels a bad rep of being dirty and slow, along with GM making diesels that sucked as far as reliability (since they were just converted SI engines and couldn't handle the additional forces of diesel). Once the price of gas stabalized, American's realized they don't need the diesels, especially since gas engines are getting better and better economy each year. So why pay more (base vehicle price and per gallon price) for a diesel when gas isn't that much worse?

Along with the bad rep - to meet emissions there's quite a bit of additional technology needed for aftertreatment, rather than just a 3-way catalyst. How many Americans do you know that want to fill a urea tank every so often, and have the chance of plugging their emissions devices (which aren't cheap whatsoever) for a few MPGs better mileage? People already think there are too many maintenance items on cars, they don't want more.

[Adub-Drew]

^ totally agree with this! I can vow for my parent's that they are one of those people! They had the idea that diesels were these noisy, slow, sooty engine's that weren't good in the cold. But truth is the europeans have really learned how to refine a diesel motor and make it more than suitable for luxury vehicle! My mother currently drives a 2001 ml320 which is sadly getting ready to limp to its death! We love'd the car/model so much that we will be purchasing a new 2012 ml350 bluetec in the near future! I cant wait to get it! The test drive was amazing, the torque/ mpg return is a no-brainer!

I can say that my next daily driver will probably be a diesel vw/audi.

[JPT]

Along with the bad rep - to meet emissions there's quite a bit of additional technology needed for aftertreatment, rather than just a 3-way catalyst. How many Americans do you know that want to fill a urea tank every so often, and have the chance of plugging their emissions devices (which aren't cheap whatsoever) for a few MPGs better mileage? People already think there are too many maintenance items on cars, they don't want more.

Diesel engines last far more miles before a rebuild is required. It isn't a few more mpg. It is on average (for cars) double the mpg, resulting in almost double the miles per tank. Many get in upwards of 1000 miles per tank.

In the past 20 years, we have not had the option... period. We can argue chicken or egg all day long, but the fact still remains. In the past 20 years we have not had a good enough selection. You will never see sales go up, when the only diesel choices in American cars are excursions and pickups. I know many people who would gladly get diesel, including myself, if I wasn't forced into 10 vehicle choices.

[Wrath]

It is odd how you guys don't get the diesel choice. Over here, in he UK, approximately 50% of new cars sold are diesels and that figure is rising. Manufacturers are now working towards Euro V spec so diesels are completely different from what they were 15-20 years ago. Diesel is roughly the same price as petrol (slightly more) but you get 600-700 miles to the tank and the engines can easily do 200k miles.

[exbimmer]

Diesel engines last far more miles before a rebuild is required. It isn't a few more mpg. It is on average (for cars) double the mpg, resulting in almost double the miles per tank. Many get in upwards of 1000 miles per tank.

In the past 20 years, we have not had the option... period. We can argue chicken or egg all day long, but the fact still remains. In the past 20 years we have not had a good enough selection. You will never see sales go up, when the only diesel choices in American cars are excursions and pickups. I know many people who would gladly get diesel, including myself, if I wasn't forced into 10 vehicle choices.

There aren't choices because manufacturers don't think people want them. I know diesels last far longer, I know they're much more reliable and much better fuel economy. Very few people think like this. As Adub-Drew mentioned, his parents didn't know this, and probably thought they'd never buy a diesel. Once you're well educated about it, it's pretty easy to see that it's actually a really good option. But alas, look at all the marketing geared towards gasoline, flex-fuel, and bio-fuels. All the manufacturers here are pushing those fuels, as is the EPA. In consumers' minds, diesel is reserved for heavy duty needs (pickups and semis). Ask most people (of the general public, not those who actually care about driving fun yet fuel efficient vehicles) if they wished they had the option of a diesel, and I can bet you the answer is no. Therefore, no one's going to make something no one wants here. It's not worth it to make an emissions compliant vehicle for a market that doesn't exist. As you said, chicken or egg, but it's up to the manufacturer's to take a chance at certifying their diesels and selling them here before the general American perception will ever change about them. And that's just not a very good investment risk at this time.

[papadelogan]

Those 2 kind of don't go together... I've driven a few TDI's and they are not exactly... fast....

I find this statement shocking and thoroughly disappointing. This alone will have me looking to other vendors to supply parts. How can you be so out of touch? Let me give you some google terms to help bring you up to 2006 informational levels :

1. diesel
2. Le Mans
3. ........ wait for it...... AUDI


Stock TDIs aren't as fast as many of the gasser options out there, but they can be made fast. How? Get this..... MODIFYING. Crazy idea, I know, but apparently, there are a few companies out there that sell parts to not only repair, but modify cars.

I am a year or so away from sourcing a B-pillar cut of a B7 A4 2.0 (or 3.0) TDI quattro 6MT from Germany so I can swap over the entire driveline, wiring, etc. and build what Europe can walk in to a dealership and order. It will be fast enough for me, but expect my range to go from 450 to 800+. And with a well balanced selection of injectors, turbo, tuning, etc. will probably be as fast as my Stage 1 2.0T... maybe quicker.

[Homer]

I find this statement shocking and thoroughly disappointing. This alone will have me looking to other vendors to supply parts. How can you be so out of touch? Let me give you some google terms to help bring you up to 2006 informational levels :

1. diesel
2. Le Mans
3. ........ wait for it...... AUDI


Stock TDIs aren't as fast as many of the gasser options out there, but they can be made fast. How? Get this..... MODIFYING. Crazy idea, I know, but apparently, there are a few companies out there that sell parts to not only repair, but modify cars.

I am a year or so away from sourcing a B-pillar cut of a B7 A4 2.0 (or 3.0) TDI quattro 6MT from Germany so I can swap over the entire driveline, wiring, etc. and build what Europe can walk in to a dealership and order. It will be fast enough for me, but expect my range to go from 450 to 800+. And with a well balanced selection of injectors, turbo, tuning, etc. will probably be as fast as my Stage 1 2.0T... maybe quicker.

I'm right there with you. After the thing is paid off, I'd love to swap in a 3.0 TDI

[funky_snowman]

I've only driven a golf TDI, but that car wasn't exactly "slow". Granted, it wasn't fast, and any power it had was at lower speeds, but still, it's a fun motor. I'd pick a Golf TDI over a GTI every time (and then add some of the goodies from the GTI). I'd look at the A3 TDI if you could get them with a 6mt and quattro, but that's not an option...yet.

I am pretty hopeful we'll see more options in the near future. Hybrids with big fat batteries don't make sense for a lot of people without massive government subsidies, and VW is making a lot of progress bringing diesel into the mainstream. the cost of diesel fuel is a lot more in line with the cost of gasoline these days when compared to where things stood a few years ago, which will make it easier for many people to financially justify the move to diesel.

it would be nice if car manufacturers here would stop trying to push hybrid tech as a total solution while neglecting to use all of the different technologies available that have immediate and positive impacts on fuel economy. imo, requiring the use of a massive battery should be on the top of the list of things to avoid, especially when we have something like diesel sitting around. However, most car companies are more interested in telling us what we want, rather than listening and building a product that fills a legitimate demand.

[papadelogan]

I'm right there with you. After the thing is paid off, I'd love to swap in a 3.0 TDI

I need to look in to the details, differences, and tuning/tweaking options for the 2.0 & 3.0 TDIs, then decide. It might be like the 2.0 TFSI vs. 3.2 - moddable vs. not really moddable.

[Ed Gein]

[siryova]

No Diesel option in US other than the Audi A3--aka the Audi Golf!

WHY....FOR THE LOVE!?!?!?!.........WHY?!?!?

Man, if they offered a diesel--seems to me that would be the ultimate car for the average Joe Audi enthusiast--add Avant-- PERFECT car.
Sick styling
Fantastic interior
Fast
Handles like a sports car
Resonably priced
40 mpg

2014 or beyond???

Good topic.

VW has a big campain to promote their diesel clean motor "VW and Audi have similar motor" and the combustion of diesel with turbo is complete, clean and powefull

Only see Q7 with TDI engine "???????"

[papadelogan]

Good topic.

VW has a big campain to promote their diesel clean motor "VW and Audi have similar motor" and the combustion of diesel with turbo is complete, clean and powefull

Only see Q7 with TDI engine "???????"

Q7 does come with TDI and Quattro, but for those that 1) want a sedan, 2) want a manual transmission, and 3) don't want or need a $60K SUV, there really isn't an option for us in the U.S. Bummer. I've read that maybe by 2015, but we'll see.

[Mc Suly]

^^
dont forget to add a Quattro to the point you made of sedan & manual transmission



I've read quite a few threads of swapping jetta mk4 diesel engines into the audi b5 to get that quattro, manual feel with the diesel.

Can you make it fast? Of course you can with a VNT Turbo!!

Also read people talking about "starting" new projects with swapping diesels from the audi q7


unless you do a lot of the work your self, it's a costly project

[papadelogan]

dont forget to add a Quattro to the point you made of sedan & manual transmission

Most definitely!!! Gotta have the Quattro, otherwise I'd just buy another VW TDI.

unless you do a lot of the work your self, it's a costly project

No doubt, but I do plan to do 99% of the work myself. About the only thing I'll farm out will be the tuning. With a b-pillar cut I'll have everything parts-wise, but will replace wear items (axles, single-use nuts & bolts, etc.) as needed. The only difficulty I see (right now) is getting the cluster sorted out and getting it to show MPH instead of KMPH.

[Charlescrs6]

We have a 2009 MB ML320 Bluetec with 106,000 miles on it. Haven't had any problems with it, and we get about 30MPG on the highway. It's a nice SUV.

[Charles.waite]

We have a 2009 MB ML320 Bluetec with 106,000 miles on it. Haven't had any problems with it, and we get about 30MPG on the highway. It's a nice SUV.

My parents drive one and its a pretty goddamn awesome car. It won't blow anyone's doors off, but its deceptively fast with the masses torque. I took that thing for a long weekend in Whistler (my g37 didn't fit 4 people and a dog!) and that thing got great gas mileage, wan insanely comfortable to drive and completely demolished a 30 mile partially-closed Forest Service road to a VERY off the beaten path Hot Springs. I honestly HATE every other car MB makes (except the SL, those are beautiful) but I love this car. The only downsides are the $500/tire run flats you have to get because the spare tire well is taken up by the urea-injection system, and the fact that you look like a drug dealer with all the chrome trim.

Anyway the star of the car is the diesel engine. It does a lot to make that car somewhat economical.

{RANT}I really wish Audi would pull their heads out of their asses, see what VW is doing with the TDI Jettas/Golfs/Passats and give us more powertrain options. I find it completely unacceptable that for the a4 I have 1 choice of engine and I can't get an Avant in a manual. For the A3 you can't get a manual AND quattro. For the A6 theres no manual at all OR Avant!! The new Allroad sounds nice, but its only got the 2.0t not the 3.0T or the 4.2 and its based on the A4, not the A6. Its just mind boggling how they really see us Americans as cavemen who need to be told exactly which options we can choose from and which standard equipment we will receive!

I get that enthusiasts are a small part of the market, but throw us a fucking bone Audi! VW caters heavily to the enthusiast market and its paid off in spades and created a VERY loyal consumer base.

AND WHERE IS THE S4 AVANT!!!!


X1000

{/RANT}

On the other hand this creates some truly staggering opportunities for the aftermarket to carve out some niches. 3.0T Allroad retrofit anyone?!

As a fun/depressing test, go to Audi USA's configurator and then go to Audi UK's configurator and you get a real sense of the sheer amount of choice that gets taken away from the American market.

[A4A4A4]

{RANT}I really wish Audi would pull their heads out of their asses, see what VW is doing with the TDI Jettas/Golfs/Passats and give us more powertrain options. I find it completely unacceptable that for the a4 I have 1 choice of engine and I can't get an Avant in a manual. For the A3 you can't get a manual AND quattro. For the A6 theres no manual at all OR Avant!! The new Allroad sounds nice, but its only got the 2.0t not the 3.0T or the 4.2 and its based on the A4, not the A6. Its just mind boggling how they really see us Americans as cavemen who need to be told exactly which options we can choose from and which standard equipment we will receive!

I get that enthusiasts are a small part of the market, but throw us a fucking bone Audi! VW caters heavily to the enthusiast market and its paid off in spades and created a VERY loyal consumer base.

AND WHERE IS THE S4 AVANT!!!!


X1000

{/RANT}

On the other hand this creates some truly staggering opportunities for the aftermarket to carve out some niches. 3.0T Allroad retrofit anyone?!

As a fun/depressing test, go to Audi USA's configurator and then go to Audi UK's configurator and you get a real sense of the sheer amount of choice that gets taken away from the American market.

I HATE when people complain that Audi doesn't bring diesels/manuals/avants to N/A, they're a BUSINESS, just like any other they're in it first and foremost to make money. The simple fact is these are things that americans do not want right now. Look at how much the 335i still outsells the 335d, or how many B7 A4 manual avants people bought. When the numbers are that low it's simply not profitable. I can see more diesels coming stateside in the future but I think the wagon and the manual (especially in luxury car brands) are going to be a thing of the past. Audi's already announced that they're going to be bringing the A6, A8, and Q5 diesels within the next couple years, there's talks about TDI for B9 A4 too, I think that's a pretty good start.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't be blaming the company, you should be blaming the consumer, it's all supply and demand. If you want to see more diesels, talk your friend, brother, neighbor, dentist, whoever, into an A3 TDI instead of that shiny new Prius.

[Ed Gein]

Sent to AoA... Our work is done here.

[funky_snowman]

i don't blame any of the German makes given that they are the only ones to consistently sell diesel options. i blame all of the other manufacturers and oil companies that made the us market so wrongly unfriendly to diesel. i really feel like the US market isn't in line with consumer interests. mass appeal is overemphasized to the point where we have so few choices. hopefully that will change.

[Charles.waite]

I HATE when people complain that Audi doesn't bring diesels/manuals/avants to N/A, they're a BUSINESS, just like any other they're in it first and foremost to make money. The simple fact is these are things that americans do not want right now. Look at how much the 335i still outsells the 335d, or how many B7 A4 manual avants people bought. When the numbers are that low it's simply not profitable. I can see more diesels coming stateside in the future but I think the wagon and the manual (especially in luxury car brands) are going to be a thing of the past. Audi's already announced that they're going to be bringing the A6, A8, and Q5 diesels within the next couple years, there's talks about TDI for B9 A4 too, I think that's a pretty good start.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't be blaming the company, you should be blaming the consumer, it's all supply and demand. If you want to see more diesels, talk your friend, brother, neighbor, dentist, whoever, into an A3 TDI instead of that shiny new Prius.

That is true, but TDIs are popping up all over in seattle. We are a different market though, people jump all over anything touted as "Green" hence why every other person in my neighborhood has a prius to make them feel better about driving an AMG mercedes...

But still i see a TON of TDI VWs and A3s. Saw a 335d the other day too. my parents own a GL350 bluetec. The demand will be there...

[yungcotter]

my friends parents have a 335D its pretty quick I must say.

[Mister W]

Because the people who decide what cars Americans will like and and think they will sell (AKA those who decide for U) , are old farts sitting behind a desk and have their private driver.
Just look Ford US and Ford UK. Some people say that US was not ready for the Europe styling Focus, so they change the first edition to a drab nothing special car, while in Europe they had evolution in their Focus model and it was looking quite good. Now i think mentality is changing, and we have more Euro cars from Ford and GM (Opel), but we're still far from the best IMO.
Unfortunatly, Canada is not big enough market to have his own choices, so we have to endure US market. But most of Quebekers will probably get an Euro style car or a wagon than a big American boring style.
As for diesel, we have diesel Jeep, and Kia, i'm sure an diesel A4 will sell well here.

[TMurt]

I am actually wrapping up a research project for my senior year about the future of the auto industry, more specifically whether or not electric cars are a viable replacement to the ICE. Answer is not as obvious as you might think. Anyways, through my research, I have found that diesels, forced induction, and start stop tech will be key for automakers to achieve new standards, unless they move to "electrification". But seeing as electrification (battery tech.) is not able to stand independently now (without subsidies), companies will have to use everything short of full battery packs for the next 5-10 years. I would be shocked if the Europeans don't bring some diesels over to the states. I read that audi is plannign to bring a turbo diesel V6 with start stop technology over for the A8 in the next year or two. Diesels are the cheapest way for those companies to raise their fleet efficiency at little cost.

Diesel hybrids are also beginning to emerge. The mercedes E300 blutec reportedly emits less CO2/mile than a prius and still hits 60mph in under 7 seconds. However, there are no plans to bring it to the states yet.

I also heard that one reason diesels never caught on is because Oldsmobile attempts a diesel V8 in the 80s maybe and it turned out to be a complete piece of shit and started a resistance to diesels here. Of course, as others said, the US has historically had much more leniant fuel efficiency standards

[Mc Suly]

Sent to AoA... Our work is done here.

LOl

[A4A4A4]

That is true, but TDIs are popping up all over in seattle. We are a different market though, people jump all over anything touted as "Green"

You think Seattle is a "different" market? You should take a ferry up to Vancouver island one day. I'd venture a guess that Victoria is the most left-leaning, green touting city in North America. Small cars are abundant here, but I don't think it's the PNW that you'd have to convince to make the jump to diesel.

There's a large part of the North American population that wouldn't be caught dead in a diesel or a wagon/hatchback.

[Charles.waite]

You think Seattle is a "different" market? You should take a ferry up to Vancouver island one day. I'd venture a guess that Victoria is the most left-leaning, green touting city in North America. Small cars are abundant here, but I don't think it's the PNW that you'd have to convince to make the jump to diesel.

There's a large part of the North American population that wouldn't be caught dead in a diesel or a wagon/hatchback.

Very true. As I was typing that I was thinking back to my college days and how much "German Iron" I saw in Ohio. Even "European Iron" for that matter, was EXTREMELY scarce. Not sure why as the cars are far superior from across the pond (Opinion!) but whatever. I'm sure I would probably get my ass kicked by some hill-billys in the WalMart parking lot near my college and then they would "Smoke" me with their chipped turbo-diesel 'Merican trucks. All for driving a girls car (wagon). I actually drove a Saab Wagon my sophmore year in college. My brother is still driving the car now. That was an awesome car...

[mcpcartier]

i hate diesels but had a few
my last passat 140bhp avant model decat stage 2 hybrid turbo mapping made 280bhp
and still returned 55mpg motorway and 42 round town and yes they can be fast with all the TQ they pull like a train
but im back to petrol just dont like the dervs

what is "dervs"?

[Charles.waite]

I am actually wrapping up a research project for my senior year about the future of the auto industry, more specifically whether or not electric cars are a viable replacement to the ICE. Answer is not as obvious as you might think. Anyways, through my research, I have found that diesels, forced induction, and start stop tech will be key for automakers to achieve new standards, unless they move to "electrification". But seeing as electrification (battery tech.) is not able to stand independently now (without subsidies), companies will have to use everything short of full battery packs for the next 5-10 years. I would be shocked if the Europeans don't bring some diesels over to the states. I read that audi is plannign to bring a turbo diesel V6 with start stop technology over for the A8 in the next year or two. Diesels are the cheapest way for those companies to raise their fleet efficiency at little cost.

Diesel hybrids are also beginning to emerge. The mercedes E300 blutec reportedly emits less CO2/mile than a prius and still hits 60mph in under 7 seconds. However, there are no plans to bring it to the states yet.

I also heard that one reason diesels never caught on is because Oldsmobile attempts a diesel V8 in the 80s maybe and it turned out to be a complete piece of shit and started a resistance to diesels here. Of course, as others said, the US has historically had much more leniant fuel efficiency standards

That actually is a very interesting topic. I've been trying to preach the shortsightedness of the hybrid movement but most people don't listen. They just say look at the MPGs, and think that is equivalent to how "green" something is. I pretty much despise the word green as most people use it. I have my own convictions on this topic that I'll spare everyone on here.

[funky_snowman]

Agreed. It's pretty funny that a brand new gasoline ford focus can match what hybrids were doing even a couple years ago, for a considerably lower pricepoint and without being a total drag to drive. i have never see in slapping a massive battery into it to bring its fuel economy in line with 20 year old economy cars, especially when we have direct injection, stop/start, diesel laying around largely unused up till very recently.

I'm going to stop now because I just realized that I have become a stereotype.

what kind of saab charles?

[Wrath]

what is "dervs"?

d(iesel) e(ngine) r(oad) v(ehicle)

[Tanner]

As mentioned, the demand isn't there. Read that even the 330d isn't selling as well as BMW would have hoped for in the US. I barely see a 330d here in Toronto. Do see a few A3 TDIs and Q7 TDI. But that's about it. Probably see a bit more of the Merc SUVs w/ the diesel.

Would be curious to find out how much it costs the manufacturer on getting the vehicle crash tested also. I don't think they can just bring over a vehicle with a new engine without going through the whole crash testing.... at least that's how i understand it.

If the diesel is to come with the A4, most likely it'll be with the B9, and that's still 2-3 years away at least.

[JPT]

It is an ongoing problem... We can say the American public wouldn't use diesels, but if you go out of every major city, there are more diesels on the road. As someone who lived in TX for years, i can tell you it is a myth that people wont drive diesels. They only wont, because there aren't enough choices. I can agree, maybe in major cities, they wouldn't. Take any smaller city in America, the average person knows people with diesels.

I do not believe it is always the general public swaying the auto manufacturing. I believe it is more the oil industry and auto manufacturing in bed together. An example I can use that can prove that decisions are not always by general public, Why were memory seats/dipping mirror available on the 6 cylinder, and not on the 4 cylinder (in 2008 model)? It is simple, they wanted to sell more 6 cylinders, so to make it seem like a top of the line model, they push it.

[A4A4A4]

I do not believe it is always the general public swaying the auto manufacturing. I believe it is more the oil industry and auto manufacturing in bed together. An example I can use that can prove that decisions are not always by general public, Why were memory seats/dipping mirror available on the 6 cylinder, and not on the 4 cylinder (in 2008 model)? It is simple, they wanted to sell more 6 cylinders, so to make it seem like a top of the line model, they push it.

Again, Audi wanted to make more money so they pushed the top of the line model, don't see a problem with that, it sounds like sound business to me. Maybe excluding those things allowed them to keep costs down on the 2.0T too, increasing the 4-cylinder sales too.

FWIW, I have memory seats and the dipping mirror on my 2008 4-cylinder. Might be different for us up north?

[Tanner]

Yes different for us up here in Canada, those options remained on the 2.0T while it was removed from the US models. I think the economy had a hand in how things were packaged in the USA.