ECU Swapping and IMMO Defeat/Clone, Need some advice

[lookaught]

And to add to the original purpose of this post:

If I were you, I would not buy a used ECU to try to get the programming. I tried this years ago when I first started modding my car and bought a GIAC tuned ECU that had a physical piggyback chip. The ECU itself cost $200, and I assumed the immo adaptation (at that time, the consensus was the dealer and the SKC was the only way to get around the immo problem) ended up costing another $200. So $400 for a tune... saved like $100. Then when I decided to go BT I needed to put my original ECU back into the car, so I sent it out to a forum member to clone the immo (again, the early days of this type of work). The result was two ECUs with check sum errors, that leaves a constant CEL on my dash. Somehow the GIAC ECU had developed a check sum error, and the immo copy transferred that or created a new one on my original ECU. Regardless, that ECU was flashed with REVO by 1552 and I paid full price for the tune.

Fast forward a few years to the present. My REVO ECU now has kept my car from passing emissions for three years, though not the fault of REVO, it had the check sum error before the flash I believe. The ECU has now developed a problem where it has only intermittent connectivity through the OBD port, so I can barely run VAGCOM on the car as it continuously crashes. The car still runs, but I can't log and data. I contacted REVO and they offered to bench test my ECU, bench test my SPS+ which has also never worked properly, and if the ECU is bad they offered to transfer the programming to another ECU and update it to the latest 550cc injector file (the ECU I'm working on installing now, hence the posts above) and to replace the SPS+ for free. They even offered to pay return shipping!

So in the end, I paid $400 for an ECU that has lived in my toolbox for the past four years with a GIAC file. Then another $50 for an immo clone, then another $175 for a replacement ECU to get rid of this check sum error, plus the cost of the REVO stage III flash. If I had just paid for REVO stage one programming in the beginning, I could have kept my original ECU, then upgraded for cheap to the stage III, and had customer support the entire time. I tried to go the cheap way and transfer, but frankly, for software that may develop a glitch or if the ECU fails as mine has, you will end up paying for the software again.

So the moral of my story is pay the tuner for the software. It's expensive, but in the end if may save you a lot of time and money. Hindsight is 20/20, and I wont make this mistake again in the future.

[Matt Devo]

Awesome, thanks! So I just click through and check each module for the soft code and change any that are different on the replacement ecu using the "recode" button? I think the only adaptation values I have changed are to make the door locks all unlock with one push of the button and to make the remote roll down/up the windows.

Regarding the modules... is it safe to only do the modules that are listed in the auto scan for my car? There are a TON of modules and many clearly have no application for my car (like "sliding door" and "diesel pump"), but do you think the auto scan list is comprehensive for this model? It's generic to the B6/B7 platform i believe, so I'm guessing that list will include every relevant module and also some that have no bearing on my car

you only record/change the soft coding for the ECU, as that's the only module you are replacing. The adaptation tweaks you mention are in the central convenience module, not the ECU, so swapping in a new ECU will have no effect on them.

And to add to the original purpose of this post:

If I were you, I would not buy a used ECU to try to get the programming. I tried this years ago when I first started modding my car and bought a GIAC tuned ECU that had a physical piggyback chip. The ECU itself cost $200, and I assumed the immo adaptation (at that time, the consensus was the dealer and the SKC was the only way to get around the immo problem) ended up costing another $200. So $400 for a tune... saved like $100. Then when I decided to go BT I needed to put my original ECU back into the car, so I sent it out to a forum member to clone the immo (again, the early days of this type of work). The result was two ECUs with check sum errors, that leaves a constant CEL on my dash. Somehow the GIAC ECU had developed a check sum error, and the immo copy transferred that or created a new one on my original ECU. Regardless, that ECU was flashed with REVO by 1552 and I paid full price for the tune.

Fast forward a few years to the present. My REVO ECU now has kept my car from passing emissions for three years, though not the fault of REVO, it had the check sum error before the flash I believe. The ECU has now developed a problem where it has only intermittent connectivity through the OBD port, so I can barely run VAGCOM on the car as it continuously crashes. The car still runs, but I can't log and data. I contacted REVO and they offered to bench test my ECU, bench test my SPS+ which has also never worked properly, and if the ECU is bad they offered to transfer the programming to another ECU and update it to the latest 550cc injector file (the ECU I'm working on installing now, hence the posts above) and to replace the SPS+ for free. They even offered to pay return shipping!

So in the end, I paid $400 for an ECU that has lived in my toolbox for the past four years with a GIAC file. Then another $50 for an immo clone, then another $175 for a replacement ECU to get rid of this check sum error, plus the cost of the REVO stage III flash. If I had just paid for REVO stage one programming in the beginning, I could have kept my original ECU, then upgraded for cheap to the stage III, and had customer support the entire time. I tried to go the cheap way and transfer, but frankly, for software that may develop a glitch or if the ECU fails as mine has, you will end up paying for the software again.

So the moral of my story is pay the tuner for the software. It's expensive, but in the end if may save you a lot of time and money. Hindsight is 20/20, and I wont make this mistake again in the future.

While I mostly agree, I'm confused as to why you needed to clone the immobilizer from your GIAC-chipped ECU back to your original ECU. The stock one should have worked just fine, as pairing a new ECU doesn't break the pairing with the old one (or does the dealer do something different that does break it?). I'm able to shuffle my 2 ECUs in/out right now no problem.

[lookaught]

When I bought the GIAC I had the dealer recode the immo so the GIAC ECU would work, which made my original ECU unusable because the new GIAC ECU used an entirely different immo code that has no relation to the original code. When I decided to go BT I needed the stock ECU and rather than spend $200 at the dealer for them to recode my stock ECU to work in my car, I cloned the GIAC immo code for $50. Somehow a check sum error that developed at some point on the GIAC ecu (I know this because I have various "auto scan" files saved and noticed that at some point in time the check sum appeared) and when it was cloned this check sum somehow transferred to the stock ECU. *shrug* I don't know how, but thats whathappened.

Thanks for the clarification about the ECU module. Do you know which module this is? I don't see one that is the ECU... or is it just the "engine" module 001?

When I installed the replacement ECU it immediately had many fault codes, which is not surprising because it is from a heavily tuned car with Maestro programming, but when I cleared the engine codes one immediately came back:

18020 - Engine Control Module Incorrectly Coded
P1612 - 004 - No Signal/Communication

The software coding is different between the working ECU and this replacement... one is 0016701 while the replacement is 0016001:

Replacement ECU details:
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06B-909-518-AMB.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 8E0 909 518 F HW: 8E0 9ÿ
Component and/or Version: 1.8L R4/5VT G 0001
Software Coding: 0016001
Work Shop Code: WSC 79929 795 427686
VCID: 336EAD622BAE

Current working, but check sum error ECU details:
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06B-909-518-AMB.lbl
Part No SW: 8E0 909 518 F HW: 8E0 909 018
Component: 1.8L R4/5VT G 0001
Coding: 0016701
Shop #: WSC 80176 665 411142
VCID: 336EAD622BB3

Do I just change this coding to 0016701 and this should get rid of the fault code? I just don't want to mess with it and fuck something up because Clint gave me the ECU to test to make sure it works before I pay him and I don't want to mess it up if I have to send it back to him.

Also, as it turns out my connectivity issue is not related to the ECU itself as all three ECUs that I have all have this problem, I think maybe a wire to the OBD port is grounding or something... I need to check them individually. Hopefully I can disconnect the harness from the OBD under the dash and pull up the loom through the ECU box so I can inspect everything closely. If I can't find a bad connection I'm not sure what to do next... its an extremely annoying problem because I can't log the car when it keeps losing connection to the ECU.

Thanks again for help with these questions... I know nothing about software programming so I'm just very hesitant to change anything without some hand holding

[Matt Devo]

Thanks for the clarification about the ECU module. Do you know which module this is? I don't see one that is the ECU... or is it just the "engine" module 001?

yes, ECU = engine control unit (module)

Do I just change this coding to 0016701 and this should get rid of the fault code?

yes

[victimdumper]

does anyone know if physically swapping the microchip as per this thread will keep flashed software: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...to-your-car%29

if it doesn't, has anyone confirmed that an immo delete will keep the flashed software when swapping ecus?

[fr0sty]

if it doesn't, has anyone confirmed that an immo delete will keep the flashed software when swapping ecus?

I sent my ECU out for an immo defeat (I believe it was just a software flash) and it kept the tune.

[victimdumper]

good to know, did you send it to a tuning company for the immo defeat or was it someone on the forum who did it? (i have an ecu im trying to get running in mine that has a stage 1+ that id prefer not to lose)

[VegasUSP]

I sent my ECU out for an immo defeat (I believe it was just a software flash) and it kept the tune.

Who did you send it to?

[Pr0n]

Bump

Has anyone adapted the immobilizer that had APR software on it? Did you loose it?

There's http://www.goapr.com/support/immobilizer.html , unsure if that's what you're looking for.

[lookaught]

When I bought the GIAC I had the dealer recode the immo so the GIAC ECU would work, which made my original ECU unusable because the new GIAC ECU used an entirely different immo code that has no relation to the original code. When I decided to go BT I needed the stock ECU and rather than spend $200 at the dealer for them to recode my stock ECU to work in my car, I cloned the GIAC immo code for $50. Somehow a check sum error that developed at some point on the GIAC ecu (I know this because I have various "auto scan" files saved and noticed that at some point in time the check sum appeared) and when it was cloned this check sum somehow transferred to the stock ECU. *shrug* I don't know how, but thats whathappened.

Thanks for the clarification about the ECU module. Do you know which module this is? I don't see one that is the ECU... or is it just the "engine" module 001?

When I installed the replacement ECU it immediately had many fault codes, which is not surprising because it is from a heavily tuned car with Maestro programming, but when I cleared the engine codes one immediately came back:

18020 - Engine Control Module Incorrectly Coded
P1612 - 004 - No Signal/Communication

The software coding is different between the working ECU and this replacement... one is 0016701 while the replacement is 0016001:

Replacement ECU details:
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06B-909-518-AMB.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 8E0 909 518 F HW: 8E0 9ÿ
Component and/or Version: 1.8L R4/5VT G 0001
Software Coding: 0016001
Work Shop Code: WSC 79929 795 427686
VCID: 336EAD622BAE

Current working, but check sum error ECU details:
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06B-909-518-AMB.lbl
Part No SW: 8E0 909 518 F HW: 8E0 909 018
Component: 1.8L R4/5VT G 0001
Coding: 0016701
Shop #: WSC 80176 665 411142
VCID: 336EAD622BB3

Do I just change this coding to 0016701 and this should get rid of the fault code? I just don't want to mess with it and fuck something up because Clint gave me the ECU to test to make sure it works before I pay him and I don't want to mess it up if I have to send it back to him.

Also, as it turns out my connectivity issue is not related to the ECU itself as all three ECUs that I have all have this problem, I think maybe a wire to the OBD port is grounding or something... I need to check them individually. Hopefully I can disconnect the harness from the OBD under the dash and pull up the loom through the ECU box so I can inspect everything closely. If I can't find a bad connection I'm not sure what to do next... its an extremely annoying problem because I can't log the car when it keeps losing connection to the ECU.

Thanks again for help with these questions... I know nothing about software programming so I'm just very hesitant to change anything without some hand holding

Back from the dead...

Clint's already immo-defeated ECU did not solve my problems because REVO was unable to flash it. I changed the 07-Coding value from 06001 to 06701, but REVO couldnt flash it. I ended up sending the ECU back to Clint. REVO said they think it was because it was previously flashed with Maestro... but I have no idea what hte problem was and REVO offered to write a flash that will simultaneously defeat the immo (and made a new ecu work in my car) and flash it to the current 550cc software.

REVO has finally come through and has an immo defeated Stage 3 flash ready to go... so I have a bone stock replacement F box ECU that I plan to put in my car, adapt the single soft coding to 06701, and then ship it off to REVO for the flash.

Can anyone please confirm this is all I need to do here? There's always mention of soft coding and adaptation values etc... quite frankly that's all over my head. I'm just trying to get the ECU ready so REVO can flash it with a tune that defeats the immo via the software, and then it should work in my car... although there won't be a working immo.

Thanks for the help.

[Matt Devo]

if Revo is defeating the immo, then all you need to do is set the soft coding to match your existing ECU. Before or after they flash, doesn't matter. No need to mess with any adaptation values

[ddillenger]

if Revo is defeating the immo, then all you need to do is set the soft coding to match your existing ECU. Before or after they flash, doesn't matter. No need to mess with any adaptation values

I'm just going to go ahead and add this. The immobilizer data is stored in the same location as the adaptations. If they transfer his immo-data from one ecu to another, the adaptations go with it.

[lookaught]

Thanks for the responses. As far as I know, REVO is not transferring my immo, they are simply flashing my current ECU to stock, and flashing the new ECU with their 550cc tune and an immobilizer defeat incorporated into the software. Apparently getting this program that also defeats the immo is what took so long (16 months).

Would you mind explaining what the soft coding versus adaptations are, what they perform, and how they are different? I'm a computer n00b when it comes to cars. I just would like to have a grasp on what these numbers do.

Thanks!

[Bische]

The soft coding is for configuring the ECU after your car, fwd/quattro, esp, abs, TIP/manual etc.

Adaptions are fuel trims, boost PID trims, wall wetting/AE trims, knock trims etc.

All of that information plus your Immo and VIN are stored in the same eeprom(0.5kb 95040), a separate chip from the 1mb 29F800 that the tune is flashed to. Normally you kill Immo in the 95040, but you can as Revo does, kill it in the tune also.

[lookaught]

Ok, that makes sense, thanks. My original problem with the check sum error seemed to "transfer" from the old GIAC ecu to the current ECU when I had a guy remove the EEPROMs and copy over the coding... so it makes more sense that the check sum seemed to jump ship to the new ECU.

Are adaptations done automatically by the ECU as you drive? I've never messed with mine, only a few in some other modules for things like windows... although I did modify the fuel economy computation in for the cluster display which might have been in the ECU, and when I got it back my fuel economy predictor in the cluster display is now waaaaaay off base. I guess REVO may have reset the adaptations when the reflashed the ECU from the 440 tune to the 550 tune?

In any event, I'm going to recode the soft code to 16701 and hope for the best. Honestly I have no idea if this soft code is actually the correct one from my car, as I had the dealer swap in the GIAC ECU in 2007 and recode the immo, and while I assume they changed the soft coding I don't know for sure they did so. Is the soft coding also stored on the same EEPROM as the immo and adaptation values? Or is there any way to figure out the correct soft code number based on my car options?

Thanks for the help

[OMGHI]

Back from the dead again !

Did anyone figure out a DIY on retrieving the 4 digit SKC pin from the ECU ? Using vag commander.


Thanks in advance.