Fluttering, loss of power...At my wits end

[TheSilverF0x]

Ok, so now there's another problem that just surfaced this morning. I'm just going to be blunt and to the point about it.

First of all, I've searched and read, but mine seems a little different, so here it is.

I'm having loss of power. It feels like when you blow an intercooler pipe off, but not nearly as bad. It's felt like it's NA all day today. Tonight, I went driving on the road in front of my house to listen to the turbo.

When I accelerate (full throttle) up to about 3,500 rpm, it sounds like the turbo is fluttering. I've searched fluttering turbo, and all the info I've found talks about it fluttering off throttle not wide open.

After the fluttering noise ceases, you don't even hear the turbo anymore (or I can't). Again, it sounds like an NA motor revving up.

I don't have any codes present.

I have noticed since I got the car back last week (before this lack of power/fluttering stuff started), the turbo has been making the dentist drill noise. I notice it primarily while cruising, and give it about half throttle (enough to shift down a gear or two). It's decently loud when it happens because I could hear it over the cd player (wasn't turned up loud by any means).

I'm going to go to Lowe's to pick up the parts to test for a boost leak tomorrow evening, but if I can't find anything there, where do I start next? I might as well pull the TIP and check for shaft play too, but would you try replacing the DV?

If it's the DV, I assume that would make the fluttering noise with the boost leak test, correct?

Oh yeah, when I popped the hood to look around with a flash light, over the turbo smelled like popcorn.

I'll still continue to search, but any helpful input? I'm trying to read, but it's like my mind isn't accepting input. I have a load of stuff going on at the office, I told my wife last night that I wanted a divorce, I haven't slept in what feels like weeks, and I bought this car October 8th and have only rode it a total of about 3 weeks since I've had it. It's been in the shop pretty much since I bought it. I'm just getting stressed out really bad and overwhelmed with it all.

As always, any help is greatly appreciated guys!

[waldo1324]

Ok, so now there's another problem that just surfaced this morning. I'm just going to be blunt and to the point about it.

First of all, I've searched and read, but mine seems a little different, so here it is.

I'm having loss of power. It feels like when you blow an intercooler pipe off, but not nearly as bad. It's felt like it's NA all day today. Tonight, I went driving on the road in front of my house to listen to the turbo.

When I accelerate (full throttle) up to about 3,500 rpm, it sounds like the turbo is fluttering. I've searched fluttering turbo, and all the info I've found talks about it fluttering off throttle not wide open.

After the fluttering noise ceases, you don't even hear the turbo anymore (or I can't). Again, it sounds like an NA motor revving up.

I don't have any codes present.

I have noticed since I got the car back last week (before this lack of power/fluttering stuff started), the turbo has been making the dentist drill noise. I notice it primarily while cruising, and give it about half throttle (enough to shift down a gear or two). It's decently loud when it happens because I could hear it over the cd player (wasn't turned up loud by any means).

I'm going to go to Lowe's to pick up the parts to test for a boost leak tomorrow evening, but if I can't find anything there, where do I start next? I might as well pull the TIP and check for shaft play too, but would you try replacing the DV?

If it's the DV, I assume that would make the fluttering noise with the boost leak test, correct?

Oh yeah, when I popped the hood to look around with a flash light, over the turbo smelled like popcorn.

I'll still continue to search, but any helpful input? I'm trying to read, but it's like my mind isn't accepting input. I have a load of stuff going on at the office, I told my wife last night that I wanted a divorce, I haven't slept in what feels like weeks, and I bought this car October 8th and have only rode it a total of about 3 weeks since I've had it. It's been in the shop pretty much since I bought it. I'm just getting stressed out really bad and overwhelmed with it all.

As always, any help is greatly appreciated guys!

possibly a bad N75 valve or blown turbo?

and good luck with your shit storm..stay strong brother!

[AndrA4]

Hmm... dentist drill sounds like a blown turbo. Did you check your exhaust gases? If its blue, chances are your turbo is blown. Anyone else want to chime in?

[Charles.waite]

Sounds like a blown DV to me. Possibly a blown N75 but that usually sends the car into limp mode which it doesn't seem like you are experiencing.

Dentist drill noise is probably a blown turbo. Could happen for various reasons, including low oil pressure, or a bad N75 causing surging which would wear out the bearings.

I would get a new 710N DV (they're like $40) slap it in and see if it helps. I usually hate throwing money at a problem before I know whats causing it, but cheap and easy test fixes like this I'm ok with.

Is there any chance the shop your car was at could have done anything to the turbo? You said it wasn't making the noise before...

[TheSilverF0x]

Sounds like a blown DV to me. Possibly a blown N75 but that usually sends the car into limp mode which it doesn't seem like you are experiencing.

Dentist drill noise is probably a blown turbo. Could happen for various reasons, including low oil pressure, or a bad N75 causing surging which would wear out the bearings.

I would get a new 710N DV (they're like $40) slap it in and see if it helps. I usually hate throwing money at a problem before I know whats causing it, but cheap and easy test fixes like this I'm ok with.

Is there any chance the shop your car was at could have done anything to the turbo? You said it wasn't making the noise before...

I looked last night at the 710N DV on ECS, but can't order anything because the ATM machine ate my check card the other night. It took the card, and the bank told me that they'd send a new one in 5-10 days because it's policy that when a card is eaten that they replace it and destroy the old one. I might try to stop by the bank, get more cash out, and then go get a prepaid debit card to order that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the N75 is equivalent to a boost control solenoid right? I search later this evening when I get home, and find out how to replace it. I might just go ahead and get one of those too.

I had to drive the car to work today, and the turbo noise is getting louder. The boost surge didn't seem as bad today, but at certain short periods, the car feels normal, then it goes to feeling anemic again. I'm going to try to pull the TIP, airbox, etc., Friday and check for any shaft play, visible wear, and such.

I don't think the dealership would have done anything. They did the 90k maintenance and put in a new oil pressure sensor, but that's all that I know of. Everyone always spoke highly of them, so hopefully they wouldn't have screwed it up.

I took the car to the dealership because I had the dreaded red oil light of doom, but when they checked my pressure it was really good. With the turbo acting up, I almost wonder if it had any type of oil starvation associated with the oil light, but it doesn't seem likely where the pressure is good.

What's a good way to check for a vacuum leak on these cars? When I had my DSMs, we would take a can of starter fluid and barely, barely mist around the lines. When the car revved up, then you knew you were close. Got any better suggestions?

[waldo1324]

I looked last night at the 710N DV on ECS, but can't order anything because the ATM machine ate my check card the other night. It took the card, and the bank told me that they'd send a new one in 5-10 days because it's policy that when a card is eaten that they replace it and destroy the old one. I might try to stop by the bank, get more cash out, and then go get a prepaid debit card to order that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the N75 is equivalent to a boost control solenoid right? I search later this evening when I get home, and find out how to replace it. I might just go ahead and get one of those too.

I had to drive the car to work today, and the turbo noise is getting louder. The boost surge didn't seem as bad today, but at certain short periods, the car feels normal, then it goes to feeling anemic again. I'm going to try to pull the TIP, airbox, etc., Friday and check for any shaft play, visible wear, and such.

I don't think the dealership would have done anything. They did the 90k maintenance and put in a new oil pressure sensor, but that's all that I know of. Everyone always spoke highly of them, so hopefully they wouldn't have screwed it up.

I took the car to the dealership because I had the dreaded red oil light of doom, but when they checked my pressure it was really good. With the turbo acting up, I almost wonder if it had any type of oil starvation associated with the oil light, but it doesn't seem likely where the pressure is good.

What's a good way to check for a vacuum leak on these cars? When I had my DSMs, we would take a can of starter fluid and barely, barely mist around the lines. When the car revved up, then you knew you were close. Got any better suggestions?

if nothing else , id suggest pussy-footing the hell out of that thing until you get a new n75
btw-- i have a used one for sale .. pm'd

[Charles.waite]

Pulling the tip sounds like the best idea at the moment. It could be the DV but it could also be the turbo.

The N75 is a Wastegate control valve, basically a solenoid as you are describing. Its a very likely failure candidate for what you are experiencing. Its expensive, but you could always go with the "E" revision that ECS lists for 1/2 the price of the newer "J" revision. I wouldn't count on it lasting as long as the J revision, but it'll do the job at 1/2 the price. I would check the out the turbo before you drop any cash on an n75. Of course Waldo's used one may be the ticket for you.

While you're pulling the TIP, you might want to just throw in a new, or used but still functional Diverter Valve just to rule that out. I'm not sure if there is some way to test if the N75 is functioning correctly or not, maybe someone can chime in on that.

[old guy]

does it sound like this? If so you will need to replace your turbo in the near future.

[Charles.waite]

Sounds like a kazoo...

[TheSilverF0x]

if nothing else , id suggest pussy-footing the hell out of that thing until you get a new n75
btw-- i have a used one for sale .. pm'd

You have a PM good sir.

[TheSilverF0x]

does it sound like this? If so you will need to replace your turbo in the near future.

Mine sounds like a super high pitch dremel or rotary tool. It's getting louder too. I hardly ever heard the turbo when I bought it, but can hear it with music on now.

I'm checking everything Friday. I'm going to pull the TIP and check the turbo. I'm keeping my fingers crossed because I really don't want to buy a turbo yet. I'm still trying to figure out my plan of attack; whether that includes selling this car and getting a manual, or just keeping it and doing a GT28RS/APR III+ setup.

[old guy]

Mine sounds like a super high pitch dremel or rotary tool. It's getting louder too. I hardly ever heard the turbo when I bought it, but can hear it with music on now.

Sure sounds like it’s time to replace the turbo.

[TheSilverF0x]

Sure sounds like it’s time to replace the turbo.

Do the K03s not last any longer than 89k miles? Better yet, does anything on these cars last more than 80k?

It is what it is though, and if it has to be replaced, then I guess I'll start searching for a new turbo and feed/return lines. Eventually when everything is new, I won't have to worry about anything failing on me. Then that's when a meteor will decide to hit my car and total it, haha.

[n7plus1]

im at almost 110k with VERY little shaft play

[03a4sport]

I was really intending not to read this thread since my problems seem to be just like yours. My car seams to be surging anytime I'm in 2nd gear lately (feel a pull, then a lull, then a pull). For what it's worth, I've heard the "dentist drill" for about a year now and think my turbo is just about to die on my. I plan on pulling the TIP to see what I can find. My Forge 007 is only a few years old now.

I'm hoping for the meteor impact any night now. At least that way I can have insurance cover it.

So now the question is, replace the K03 and stay the way the car came factory, or upgrade to a K04? Decisions, decisions.

[waldo1324]

So now the question is, replace the K03 and stay the way the car came factory, or upgrade to a K04? Decisions, decisions.

good excuse for a ko4! i cant wait for my 126K turbo to crap out... i wonder what it takes to go KO4?? time to search!

[TheSilverF0x]

I was really intending not to read this thread since my problems seem to be just like yours. My car seams to be surging anytime I'm in 2nd gear lately (feel a pull, then a lull, then a pull). For what it's worth, I've heard the "dentist drill" for about a year now and think my turbo is just about to die on my. I plan on pulling the TIP to see what I can find. My Forge 007 is only a few years old now.

I'm hoping for the meteor impact any night now. At least that way I can have insurance cover it.

So now the question is, replace the K03 and stay the way the car came factory, or upgrade to a K04? Decisions, decisions.

If I'm replacing it, then I'm going to go with at least a K04 unless I come across a K03 insanely cheap. I'm hoping that I won't have to, but it's not looking so good. I guess I'll find out Friday.

I ordered a 710N from ECS this morning, and hope it ships today. I tried calling them and chatting both, and never could get anyone last night or this morning. I went ahead and ordered it anyways though (fingers crossed).

[Charles.waite]

I usually order from GeniuneAudiParts.com. They're awesome, almost always the best prices, and since they are located on the west coast, really fast shipping for me as well. Their site sucks, so you have to know the part numbers you need, but they're great otherwise.

I think with a K04, (at least according to APR), all you need is TT injectors, the turbo itself, some gaskets, a compressor o-ring, some turbo->DP studs and a tune. I would it would be $1800 out the door for all that. Install wouldn't take much if you're handy with a wrench, as its basically bolt on.

[waldo1324]

I would it would be $1800 out the door for all that.

Thats it?? i have that in my couch cushions))

[Charles.waite]

Haha, it adds up. You can get just the kit from ECS for $1380 ($1340 with Genesis 380cc injectors instead of TT injectors) You could probably get the tune for less than APR's page says. If you already have a tune through them, the upgrade to the K04 file is like $200. So doing all the work yourself, buying a legitimate KKK K04, not a chinese RPTurbo POS, and assuming you can get upgrade pricing from APR you'll be at $1600 rather than $1800+.

That makes it marginally more palatable. You could probably find a used K04 out there in the classified for less too. The hardware is only $30. The injectors ate $280 at Eurocode. So, $310 plus whatever the cost of the turbo.

[waldo1324]

Haha, it adds up. You can get just the kit from ECS for $1380 ($1340 with Genesis 380cc injectors instead of TT injectors) You could probably get the tune for less than APR's page says. If you already have a tune through them, the upgrade to the K04 file is like $200. So doing all the work yourself, buying a legitimate KKK K04, not a chinese RPTurbo POS, and assuming you can get upgrade pricing from APR you'll be at $1600 rather than $1800+.

That makes it marginally more palatable. You could probably find a used K04 out there in the classified for less too. The hardware is only $30. The injectors ate $280 at Eurocode. So, $310 plus whatever the cost of the turbo.

now youre talking my wallets language-- used!!
please paypal your K04 donations ...its for a good cause...will somebody think of the children??!!

[Charles.waite]

I'm accepting donations too. 10% goes to charity, the other 90% also goes to "charity".

[TheSilverF0x]

Haha, it adds up. You can get just the kit from ECS for $1380 ($1340 with Genesis 380cc injectors instead of TT injectors) You could probably get the tune for less than APR's page says. If you already have a tune through them, the upgrade to the K04 file is like $200. So doing all the work yourself, buying a legitimate KKK K04, not a chinese RPTurbo POS, and assuming you can get upgrade pricing from APR you'll be at $1600 rather than $1800+.

That makes it marginally more palatable. You could probably find a used K04 out there in the classified for less too. The hardware is only $30. The injectors ate $280 at Eurocode. So, $310 plus whatever the cost of the turbo.

Are there Genesis injectors that aren't so good? Seems like I may have heard that, but I could be wrong.

I'm pretty good with a wrench when I have the place to do it. We had a garage in our town and moved it due to some different owners coming into play, but last night I went down by my parents house and my dad was telling me about another garage with 25 minutes of both of us for a really good rate. I told him I'd foot half the bill just to have a place inside to work on the Audi. It's cheaper to do that than pay a mechanic at the rate I'm going with it.

I've been trying to look around for some KKK K04 pricing. I did look on eBay for a KKK, but probably wouldn't buy from there. I've actually seen locals buy a few chinese turbos, and man, it NEVER turned out good. That's one thing I would never skimp on. However, I wouldn't mind finding a good, used turby for the right price.

[TheSilverF0x]

I'm accepting donations too. 10% goes to charity, the other 90% also goes to "charity".

Oh yeah, I'm accepting donations too. 10% charity, the other 90% to strippers...errr, I mean the children. It's all for the children.

[Charles.waite]

Are there Genesis injectors that aren't so good? Seems like I may have heard that, but I could be wrong.

I'm pretty good with a wrench when I have the place to do it. We had a garage in our town and moved it due to some different owners coming into play, but last night I went down by my parents house and my dad was telling me about another garage with 25 minutes of both of us for a really good rate. I told him I'd foot half the bill just to have a place inside to work on the Audi. It's cheaper to do that than pay a mechanic at the rate I'm going with it.

I've been trying to look around for some KKK K04 pricing. I did look on eBay for a KKK, but probably wouldn't buy from there. I've actually seen locals buy a few chinese turbos, and man, it NEVER turned out good. That's one thing I would never skimp on. However, I wouldn't mind finding a good, used turby for the right price.

People sell them here on the classifieds on occasion So keep checking there. The Genesis injectors are fine, but less compatible with tunes because they don't have an optimal spray pattern and their flow rate ramps a bit differently than the TT injectors. APR's tune doesn't work perfectly with them for instance; it works, but not as well as it could. I think other K04 tunes might be tailored around them though since they are a bit cheaper than TTs. I would shop around and decide on a tune, then worry about the injectors after you decide on that.

You could also just slap a K04 in without a tune or injectors and it would run just fine. You wouldn't be using the fullest potential of the K04, but it'll run.

[old guy]

Actually the Genesis 380's are an excellent choice. They have a dual cone 15° spray pattern which is pretty much the same thing as the OEM injectors. The flow difference between 380cc and 386cc is minimal and the ECM can easily accommodate the difference. The Siemens and Bosch 380's are a single cone straight spray pattern. I have been running the Genesis injectors for ~90k trouble free miles. For the $$ I think they are a decent alternative to the TT 386 injectors and are worth considering.

Edit: But now that you mention it I do recall some threads from a few years ago (MikTip maybe?) who had better luck with the TT 386's than the Genesis. I'm running the GIAC 1+ and they perform flawlessly. No cold start issues even in subzero conditions.

[Charles.waite]

Oh really? I thought people had been having issues with them getting lean codes and such. I stand corrected (probably not the first time on this exact issue actually... I'll learn eventually).

[old guy]

Oh really? I thought people had been having issues with them getting lean codes and such. I stand corrected (probably not the first time on this exact issue actually... I'll learn eventually).

I edited my original post as you were responding. I don't recall ever reading about lean codes from the Genesis 380's but I do recall someone commenting about smoother performance with the TT's coupled with the APR 1+. They have certainly been flawless with my GIAC 1+.

[Charles.waite]

I edited my original post as you were responding. I don't recall ever reading about lean codes from the Genesis 380's but I do recall someone commenting about smoother performance with the TT's coupled with the APR 1+. They have certainly been flawless with my GIAC 1+.

I think it was a quirk with the APR 1+ tune. Hence my disclaimer about it not working perfectly with their tune.

[03a4sport]

You guys are all bad influences. I'm going to end up buying myself a early Christmas gift and probably splurge on the complete ECS kit w/injectors and 1 program APR tune. So, rather than paypal donations, those of you that have ECS gift cards with minimal balances, send them to me and I'll complete a full DIY on the whole install.

[03a4sport]

Looks like a deal....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ko4-015-turb...#ht_500wt_1204

Only question is, APR k04 tune is the only thing that would be needed, right?

[Charles.waite]

GIAC, REVO, APR, etc all make K04 specific tunes. I would pick whichever shop is closest to you. If you are already tuned you could stick with the same company and upgrade the tune for cheap usually.

I would ask what brand that K04 is also before you pull the trigger. Be very wary of Fleabay turbos.

[03a4sport]

I know there's a GIAC dealer about an hour from me. Need to call them up tomorrow and figure out how much the tune is.

[Charles.waite]

I know there's a GIAC dealer about an hour from me. Need to call them up tomorrow and figure out how much the tune is.

You should also look into this: LINK

Only $4500+. Totally reasonable....

[TheSilverF0x]

I would ask what brand that K04 is also before you pull the trigger. Be very wary of Fleabay turbos.

This

I would definitely check what brand it is. I'm guessing that it's probably a cheaper chinese one, but I could be wrong. If it's a KKK turby, then that's a great deal.

[TheSilverF0x]

I edited my original post as you were responding. I don't recall ever reading about lean codes from the Genesis 380's but I do recall someone commenting about smoother performance with the TT's coupled with the APR 1+. They have certainly been flawless with my GIAC 1+.

Is the tune on par or close to factory smoothness? That's the reason I've leaned more towards the APR. I've always read that they are super smooth and feel close to factory.

In any case though, I'm going to have to drive a few hours no matter what tune I decide, so I'm open for suggestions. Thoughts everyone?

[waldo1324]

[QUOTE=Charles.waite;7128644] LINK

QUOTE]

holy shit-- what a monster

...do they have layaway?

[liger]

I have a used k04 and tt225 injectors and tt225 MAF available if you want to go the used route.

[03a4sport]

Doesn't look like a true Ko4 to me.

[TheSilverF0x]

I replaced the 710N today with the new one I got from ECS Tuning, and while it feels just faintly stronger (probably in my mind to be honest), the problem is still there.

I drove up to a local grocery store today on the way home from my parents (where I installed the 710N). There's a retaining wall and it's a decent uphill grade, so I rolled the windows down to listen to the turbo. When the turbo starts to spool (2k-3.5k rpm), instead of being the normal sssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh noise that a turbo's suppose to make, it makes more of a shdddshdddshdddshddd noise (like if you pulsated the normal spooling sound).

Here's my idea. I forgot to send my address to Wally for the N75 with the Paypal message, so it'll be a few days till it gets here. So, I thought about eliminating the N75 by connecting the two hoses from the compressor (pressure side) and the wastegate, and testing it to see if that corrects the problem. If the N75 is the problem, then theoretically, this should correct the problem, right?

I've searched a lot of post tonight about removing the N75 and how the boost will be on/off, but other than that, will there be any negative issues?

I also know that it'd just boost to the stock wastegate pressure, but even if it was 10 psi, then it wouldn't be bad as long as I could drive the car without worrying about screwing it up. While I'm talking about stock wastegate boost pressure, what is it? I'm searching as we speak, but not coming up with anything.

EDIT: Just came across something will searching. Where the car is still 'stock' tuned, if I eliminate the N75, will it throw the car into limp mode?